Moon Mullen
Active member
A 5th year senior, a 4 year senior,,a junior, sophomore and a freshman is neither a young nor inexperienced team. If Heron keeps playing like this he will be on nobodies top ten list.
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(POST GAME) (HofF@Mohegan Sun) Arizona St., Sat. Nov. 23, 2:30p, ESPN3, 570 WMCA
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=364597]Overreactions are always popular after a loss. Yes, we lost 3 starters from last year's NCAA team, but don't buy the premise that we are all that talent challenged. LJ & Heron are clearly top 10 BE talent; Champagnie & Roberts, regardless of how highly ranked, are also clearly quite talented and Dunn, despite having a bad game today, is a BE starting level talent. Steere is reportedly a power conference level significant contributor. Heron, Dunn & Roberts all had differing levels of off games today. I'd guess coach might say it was also not one of his best games. It happens; a learning experience. I expect us to bounce back tomorrow and will be surprised if that is not the case. Don't think it's a stretch to expect this team to go 9-4 or 10-3 non conference and 6-12 or 7-11 in BE. NIT is a realistic goal imho.[/quote]
That might have been reasonable if this team had played in last year's Big East. There's more returning talent in the league this year, then I can ever remember. Unfortunately, this is not the year to be starting over. Not Anderson's fault, it's just the way things worked out.
We also have no true point guard (Dunn's a hybrid, which may be the worst thing a guard can possibly be, although he is talented), and no Center. In all honestly, I'd rather have nothing at the other three positions, while excelling at those two spots. Not being able to do that, will lead to a lot of losing, IMO.
I think our Big East record will be impacted a lot by our first game, at CA against Butler. That looks like a winnable game. If we win it, that might lead to some confidence, and maybe we steal a few wins down the road. If we lose, with the schedule that follows, a start similar to Mullin's first and third years may be very possible, unfortunately.
That might have been reasonable if this team had played in last year's Big East. There's more returning talent in the league this year, then I can ever remember. Unfortunately, this is not the year to be starting over. Not Anderson's fault, it's just the way things worked out.
We also have no true point guard (Dunn's a hybrid, which may be the worst thing a guard can possibly be, although he is talented), and no Center. In all honestly, I'd rather have nothing at the other three positions, while excelling at those two spots. Not being able to do that, will lead to a lot of losing, IMO.
I think our Big East record will be impacted a lot by our first game, at CA against Butler. That looks like a winnable game. If we win it, that might lead to some confidence, and maybe we steal a few wins down the road. If we lose, with the schedule that follows, a start similar to Mullin's first and third years may be very possible, unfortunately.
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[quote="Moon Mullen" post=364598]A 5th year senior, a 4 year senior,,a junior, sophomore and a freshman is neither a young nor inexperienced team. If Heron keeps playing like this he will be on nobodies top ten list.[/quote]
He's a good player not a star, that could change, but as of right now he's just a good player.
He needs to step up like star players always do.
He's a good player not a star, that could change, but as of right now he's just a good player.
He needs to step up like star players always do.
SJU61982 wrote: that might have been reasonable if this team had played in last year's Big East. There's more returning talent in the league this year, then I can ever remember. Unfortunately, this is not the year to be starting over. Not Anderson's fault, it's just the way things worked out.
We also have no true point guard (Dunn's a hybrid, which may be the worst thing a guard can possibly be, although he is talented), and no Center. In all honestly, I'd rather have nothing at the other three positions, while excelling at those two spots. Not being able to do that, will lead to a lot of losing, IMO.
I think our Big East record will be impacted a lot by our first game, at CA against Butler. That looks like a winnable game. If we win it, that might lead to some confidence, and maybe we steal a few wins down the road. If we lose, with the schedule that follows, a start similar to Mullin's first and third may be very possible, unfortunately.
I get your point and understand that BE is expected to be relatively strong this year. However PC has already lost to very mediocre Penn & Northwestern teams and Marquette struggled mightily to beat a 1-5 Robert Morris team. I stick by my statement that we can win 6 or 7 games in the BE.
We also have no true point guard (Dunn's a hybrid, which may be the worst thing a guard can possibly be, although he is talented), and no Center. In all honestly, I'd rather have nothing at the other three positions, while excelling at those two spots. Not being able to do that, will lead to a lot of losing, IMO.
I think our Big East record will be impacted a lot by our first game, at CA against Butler. That looks like a winnable game. If we win it, that might lead to some confidence, and maybe we steal a few wins down the road. If we lose, with the schedule that follows, a start similar to Mullin's first and third may be very possible, unfortunately.
I get your point and understand that BE is expected to be relatively strong this year. However PC has already lost to very mediocre Penn & Northwestern teams and Marquette struggled mightily to beat a 1-5 Robert Morris team. I stick by my statement that we can win 6 or 7 games in the BE.
[quote="Moon Mullen" post=364598]A 5th year senior, a 4 year senior,,a junior, sophomore and a freshman is neither a young nor inexperienced team. If Heron keeps playing like this he will be on nobodies top ten list.[/quote]
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.
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JackofVirginia
Active member
[quote="Monte" post=364590][quote="QueensBall" post=364585]I've been positive but this was a gut punch. 2nd half was one of the worst halves of basketball I've seen us play in years (and that's saying ALOT) We lost for exactly the reasons everyone said we'd be bad in the pre-season.
-Who steps up when LJ & Heron are playing poorly?
-Will we have good enough PG play?
-Will we have enough size inside if Steere can't play?
The answers in this game were:
-Nobody (Perhaps a little push back from our extremely pleasant surprise Champagnie)
-Definitely not.
-Nope.[/quote]
Teams will key on LJ and Heron all year and dare other guys to beat them. It’s not that hard to get in to Heron’s head and take him out of his game...all aspects of his game. It’s not as easy with LJ. Both are nice basketball players, but neither are studs who can always count on to take over a game when we need them. Unfortunately, after those 2 we have a bunch of decent role players who, if they’re having a good game, may drop 10-15 on an opponent. No one else is going to carry our team on nights when one of those 2 guys don’t. Heron is who he is, very up and down. I don’t see that changing this year, especially considering how teams can focus on him. Still think we can surprise some people, but we need to temper expectations.[/quote]
Heron has to take a long look at his poor play thus far, especially having a freshmen, Champagnie outplay him. Every team we play knows they have to overplay and stop Heron and LJ. Going to have to score in transition not in our half court offense.
-Who steps up when LJ & Heron are playing poorly?
-Will we have good enough PG play?
-Will we have enough size inside if Steere can't play?
The answers in this game were:
-Nobody (Perhaps a little push back from our extremely pleasant surprise Champagnie)
-Definitely not.
-Nope.[/quote]
Teams will key on LJ and Heron all year and dare other guys to beat them. It’s not that hard to get in to Heron’s head and take him out of his game...all aspects of his game. It’s not as easy with LJ. Both are nice basketball players, but neither are studs who can always count on to take over a game when we need them. Unfortunately, after those 2 we have a bunch of decent role players who, if they’re having a good game, may drop 10-15 on an opponent. No one else is going to carry our team on nights when one of those 2 guys don’t. Heron is who he is, very up and down. I don’t see that changing this year, especially considering how teams can focus on him. Still think we can surprise some people, but we need to temper expectations.[/quote]
Heron has to take a long look at his poor play thus far, especially having a freshmen, Champagnie outplay him. Every team we play knows they have to overplay and stop Heron and LJ. Going to have to score in transition not in our half court offense.
Moon Mullen
Active member
[quote="MCNPA" post=364605][quote="Moon Mullen" post=364598]A 5th year senior, a 4 year senior,,a junior, sophomore and a freshman is neither a young nor inexperienced team. If Heron keeps playing like this he will be on nobodies top ten list.[/quote]
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.[/quote]
MCNPA I love your enthusiasm year in year out. I simply have a different viewpoint of the team then you.
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.[/quote]
MCNPA I love your enthusiasm year in year out. I simply have a different viewpoint of the team then you.
JackofVirginia
Active member
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=364604]SJU61982 wrote: that might have been reasonable if this team had played in last year's Big East. There's more returning talent in the league this year, then I can ever remember. Unfortunately, this is not the year to be starting over. Not Anderson's fault, it's just the way things worked out.
We also have no true point guard (Dunn's a hybrid, which may be the worst thing a guard can possibly be, although he is talented), and no Center. In all honestly, I'd rather have nothing at the other three positions, while excelling at those two spots. Not being able to do that, will lead to a lot of losing, IMO.
I think our Big East record will be impacted a lot by our first game, at CA against Butler. That looks like a winnable game. If we win it, that might lead to some confidence, and maybe we steal a few wins down the road. If we lose, with the schedule that follows, a start similar to Mullin's first and third may be very possible, unfortunately.
I get your point and understand that BE is expected to be relatively strong this year. However PC has already lost to very mediocre Penn & Northwestern teams and Marquette struggled mightily to beat a 1-5 Robert Morris team. I stick by my statement that we can win 6 or 7 games in the BE.[/quote]
I don't know N.C. Johnnie I have watched DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Nova and G'town thus far and don't see us too close to the top. All have more experienced talent unfortunately.
We also have no true point guard (Dunn's a hybrid, which may be the worst thing a guard can possibly be, although he is talented), and no Center. In all honestly, I'd rather have nothing at the other three positions, while excelling at those two spots. Not being able to do that, will lead to a lot of losing, IMO.
I think our Big East record will be impacted a lot by our first game, at CA against Butler. That looks like a winnable game. If we win it, that might lead to some confidence, and maybe we steal a few wins down the road. If we lose, with the schedule that follows, a start similar to Mullin's first and third may be very possible, unfortunately.
I get your point and understand that BE is expected to be relatively strong this year. However PC has already lost to very mediocre Penn & Northwestern teams and Marquette struggled mightily to beat a 1-5 Robert Morris team. I stick by my statement that we can win 6 or 7 games in the BE.[/quote]
I don't know N.C. Johnnie I have watched DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Nova and G'town thus far and don't see us too close to the top. All have more experienced talent unfortunately.
[quote="Moon Mullen" post=364607][quote="MCNPA" post=364605][quote="Moon Mullen" post=364598]A 5th year senior, a 4 year senior,,a junior, sophomore and a freshman is neither a young nor inexperienced team. If Heron keeps playing like this he will be on nobodies top ten list.[/quote]
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.[/quote]
MCNPA I love your enthusiasm year in year out. I simply have a different viewpoint of the team then you.[/quote]
You can have a different viewpoint but the fact is that Champagne is a freshman , Roberts is a sophomore who barely played as a freshman, Dunn played 2 years at a much lower level, Rutherford played 3 seasons at a much lower level , Caraher played a year at a lower level, Steere played 5 minutes of college ball, Williams played sparingly last season and Earlington barely played and Speers is a low rated juco. So where is the experience amongst those 9 players , there is none. LJ has 1 year of college ball and Heron 3 at a high level. Like it or not we are terribly inexperienced.
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.[/quote]
MCNPA I love your enthusiasm year in year out. I simply have a different viewpoint of the team then you.[/quote]
You can have a different viewpoint but the fact is that Champagne is a freshman , Roberts is a sophomore who barely played as a freshman, Dunn played 2 years at a much lower level, Rutherford played 3 seasons at a much lower level , Caraher played a year at a lower level, Steere played 5 minutes of college ball, Williams played sparingly last season and Earlington barely played and Speers is a low rated juco. So where is the experience amongst those 9 players , there is none. LJ has 1 year of college ball and Heron 3 at a high level. Like it or not we are terribly inexperienced.
[quote="Moon Mullen" post=364607][quote="MCNPA" post=364605][quote="Moon Mullen" post=364598]A 5th year senior, a 4 year senior,,a junior, sophomore and a freshman is neither a young nor inexperienced team. If Heron keeps playing like this he will be on nobodies top ten list.[/quote]
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.[/quote]
MCNPA I love your enthusiasm year in year out. I simply have a different viewpoint of the team then you.[/quote]
I get it. I wouldn’t necessarily call it “enthusiasm” per se. I’m just tempered in my expectations for this team this year. I don’t believe we have the talent we need just yet.
I’m very positive about Anderson. I like our playing style and I like the improvement in large swaths of players that have never contributed into players that are contributing in a big way.
We will be limited this year with lack of shooters, play makers and scorers. In the other hand, we have some core young guys that are really improving like Roberts and Champagnie who can definitely play at this level but need time.
If you look at our roster, try to figure out which players would play significant minutes on top half Big East teams and you’ll see what I’m saying. This is not a knock, but we aren’t there yet.
I’d say:
Legit big east starters: Figueroa and Heron.
Solid Big East minutes as young players: Roberts, Champagnie.
Spot backup duty: Dunn at both PG and SG spots. Steere probably but yet TBD.
The rest of our guys likely wouldn’t get more than occasional minutes. They are being relied on for significant minutes here at SJU. Most teams have at least a much stronger top 6-7 with legit big east starters. We don’t have that.
Our talent level is just not at the levels of our peers. Gonna have to learn to overcome that with improved consistency on defense and getting lots of guys involved. We can still improve a lot by playing team ball the entire game, getting more guys shooting better and getting. Steere back. It won’t change the fact that we are quite a bit undermanned this year and likely will be next year as well although should be improving the talent level.
My goal for this season is to see Anderson maintain his winning season streak and see continued improvement. If we do that and maybe act like a spoiler down the stretch a bit, challenge teams every night, I’ll be satisfied this season.
The freshman, sophomore never played in college at all until this season save a few minutes for Roberts in garbage time. The 5th year senior played at a much lower level as did Dunn etc. The only 2 players on our entire team who have played any real minutes at this level are Heron and LJ. That’s should say something about our experience level.[/quote]
MCNPA I love your enthusiasm year in year out. I simply have a different viewpoint of the team then you.[/quote]
I get it. I wouldn’t necessarily call it “enthusiasm” per se. I’m just tempered in my expectations for this team this year. I don’t believe we have the talent we need just yet.
I’m very positive about Anderson. I like our playing style and I like the improvement in large swaths of players that have never contributed into players that are contributing in a big way.
We will be limited this year with lack of shooters, play makers and scorers. In the other hand, we have some core young guys that are really improving like Roberts and Champagnie who can definitely play at this level but need time.
If you look at our roster, try to figure out which players would play significant minutes on top half Big East teams and you’ll see what I’m saying. This is not a knock, but we aren’t there yet.
I’d say:
Legit big east starters: Figueroa and Heron.
Solid Big East minutes as young players: Roberts, Champagnie.
Spot backup duty: Dunn at both PG and SG spots. Steere probably but yet TBD.
The rest of our guys likely wouldn’t get more than occasional minutes. They are being relied on for significant minutes here at SJU. Most teams have at least a much stronger top 6-7 with legit big east starters. We don’t have that.
Our talent level is just not at the levels of our peers. Gonna have to learn to overcome that with improved consistency on defense and getting lots of guys involved. We can still improve a lot by playing team ball the entire game, getting more guys shooting better and getting. Steere back. It won’t change the fact that we are quite a bit undermanned this year and likely will be next year as well although should be improving the talent level.
My goal for this season is to see Anderson maintain his winning season streak and see continued improvement. If we do that and maybe act like a spoiler down the stretch a bit, challenge teams every night, I’ll be satisfied this season.
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QueensBall
Member
Nothing at all against Rutherford & Dunn (who I find very easy to root for and believe both play important roles on this year's team) but this game showed how important getting a true PG of Posh Alexander's talent level back into the program is. He can score but he's a also very good passer who will take care of the ball. Will be a very welcome addition,
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="QueensBall" post=364612]Nothing at all against Rutherford & Dunn (who I find very easy to root for and believe both play important roles on this year's team) but this game showed how important getting a true PG of Posh Alexander's talent level back into the program is. He can score but he's a also very good passer who will take care of the ball. Will be a very welcome addition,[/quote]
College basketball is a guards game too. Our two best players are 3/4's. Need 1's and 2's who can consistently create either for themselves or others. I like Dunn but he's a piece to the puzzle.
College basketball is a guards game too. Our two best players are 3/4's. Need 1's and 2's who can consistently create either for themselves or others. I like Dunn but he's a piece to the puzzle.
JackofVirginia wrote: I don't know N.C. Johnnie I have watched DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Nova and G'town thus far and don't see us too close to the top. All have more experienced talent unfortunately.
Jack, certainly agree we won't be too close to the top. 6-12 or 7-11 (my prediction) wouldn't get us there. I do think we can finish 7th or 8th and compete for an NIT berth. That is all I was saying.
Jack, certainly agree we won't be too close to the top. 6-12 or 7-11 (my prediction) wouldn't get us there. I do think we can finish 7th or 8th and compete for an NIT berth. That is all I was saying.
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Moose" post=364613][quote="QueensBall" post=364612]Nothing at all against Rutherford & Dunn (who I find very easy to root for and believe both play important roles on this year's team) but this game showed how important getting a true PG of Posh Alexander's talent level back into the program is. He can score but he's a also very good passer who will take care of the ball. Will be a very welcome addition,[/quote]
College basketball is a guards game too. Our two best players are 3/4's. Need 1's and 2's who can consistently create either for themselves or others. I like Dunn but he's a piece to the puzzle.[/quote]
Do you think a healthy McGriff starts and gets a ton of minutes as a freshman?
College basketball is a guards game too. Our two best players are 3/4's. Need 1's and 2's who can consistently create either for themselves or others. I like Dunn but he's a piece to the puzzle.[/quote]
Do you think a healthy McGriff starts and gets a ton of minutes as a freshman?