Positives to think about after this game for the season

monte said:
Ledlum is a scrappy rebounder, in the mold of a Charles Minland, but he's so undersized that he doesn't provide much of an inside presence on offense or defense, as PFs need to do. Joel is going to need help especially on the backside when going against bigger front lines. As we saw yesterday, anytime Joel went to help, Johnson had free rein. That's were maybe Rick needs to pair Zuby or Traore with Joel. Seems he plays Zuby and Traore more as a tandem together, then either of them with Joel.
Click to expand...
Monte, there was one play last night where Ledlum posted up down low and used his wide frame to gain position. He received an entry pass and made a nice move down low and scored. That was a positive. We need more of that from him.
 
Last edited:
monte said:
If not "choked", what term would suggest? "Wilted under pressure"? "Folded"? I can't speak for anyone else, but in my many years of playing sports I've choked plenty of times. I've also choked on stage and in life. I knew it each and every time it happened. I could handle the "choked" moniker. You learn from it and you grow from it. Guess some people can't. Oh, and I've also risen to the occasion plenty of times, in sports and in life.
Click to expand...
I know you so kinda know your personality and you are tough on yourself and don't expect anything of others that you wouldn't do yourself. That's why we get a long so well

In regards to Jenkins or any player in that situation regardless of whether people think he took a good shot at the end or choked for me personally I look at it as he wasn't afraid of failure and took that shot. To me choking would be passing up the shot to let someone else with less time on the clock to take a worse shot

Fear of failure has driven me my entire life and I suspect you also. Maybe that's not exactly the right term because I'm taking that shot also and I think you would to. And knowing you pretty well I can almost guarantee you have never choked in life other than on maybe a buffalo wing after 10 beers. Maybe sometimes you didn't succeed to your own expectations but who the hell succeeds at everything in life. If we did I wouldn't need ambien. :) But you've learned from those experiences and that's why you are who you are now
 
Last edited:
mjmaherjr said:
I know you so kinda know your personality and you are tough on yourself and don't expect anything of others that you wouldn't do yourself. That's why we get a long so well

In regards to Jenkins or any player in that situation regardless of whether people think he took a good shot at the end or choked for me personally I look at it as he wasn't afraid of failure and took that shot. To me choking would be passing up the shot to let someone else with less time on the clock to take a worse shot

Fear of failure has driven me my entire life and I suspect you also. Maybe that's not exactly the right term because I'm taking that shot also and I think you would to. And knowing you pretty well I can almost guarantee you have never choked in life other than on maybe a buffalo wing after 10 beers. Maybe sometimes you didn't succeed to your own expectations but who the hell succeeds at everything in life. If we did I wouldn't need ambien. :) But you've learned from those experiences and that's why you are who you are now
Click to expand...
I don't feel like Jenkins choked there at all. Just like I never felt like my man Dunn choked when he had the balls to take the last shot of the game. Choking, to me, is when you're put in a tough situation, you let your nerves get the best of you, which causes you to mess up. We've all been there. I know that I have countless times. I've struck out in crucial situations and heard word "choke!!" yelled at me from the stands. Under my breath I'd say "fuck you all. Watch what I do next time!". But I guess that was a different time, when you had no choice but to suck that stuff up and exact revenge on the field or court.
 
mjmaherjr said:
I know you so kinda know your personality and you are tough on yourself and don't expect anything of others that you wouldn't do yourself. That's why we get a long so well

In regards to Jenkins or any player in that situation regardless of whether people think he took a good shot at the end or choked for me personally I look at it as he wasn't afraid of failure and took that shot. To me choking would be passing up the shot to let someone else with less time on the clock to take a worse shot

Fear of failure has driven me my entire life and I suspect you also. Maybe that's not exactly the right term because I'm taking that shot also and I think you would to. And knowing you pretty well I can almost guarantee you have never choked in life other than on maybe a buffalo wing after 10 beers. Maybe sometimes you didn't succeed to your own expectations but who the hell succeeds at everything in life. If we did I wouldn't need ambien. :) But you've learned from those experiences and that's why you are who you are now
Click to expand...
We’ve all “choked” at times. I think what Beast and MJM are saying it’s one thing to be hard on ourselves, another to spray it on a message board at kids who already are feeling crappy enough.
Posting during games we’re almost guaranteed to say things in the heat of the game we’d like to take back and I’m as guilty as anyone. These Johnnies are all trying their best, sometimes with better results than others like all of us.
 
Mean Gene said:
Monte, there was one play last night where Ledlum posted up down low and used his wide frame to gain position. He received an entry pass and made a nice move down low and scored. That was a positive. We need more of that from him.
Click to expand...
I hope we can get more of that from him Gene, but IMO he's not big enough to do that consistently in conference play. I hope to be proven wrong.
 
NCJohnnie said:
We’ve all “choked” at times. I think what Beast and MJM are saying it’s one thing to be hard on ourselves, another to spray it on a message board at kids who already are feeling crappy enough.
Posting during games we’re almost guaranteed to say things in the heat of the game we’d like to take back and I’m as guilty as anyone. These Johnnies are all trying their best, sometimes with better results than others like all of us.
Click to expand...
Fair enough NCJ, and raging on a kid over and over is not what I'm talking about. But saying a kid "choked" or that the "bright lights of broadway may have been too much for him in that moment" or whatever, is really no big deal IMO. But that's just me. Again, guess I've heard much worse and used it to motivate me, not tear me down.
 
see
monte said:
Fair enough NCJ, and raging on a kid over and over is not what I'm talking about. But saying a kid "choked" or that the "bright lights of broadway may have been too much for him in that moment" or whatever, is really no big deal IMO. But that's just me. Again, guess I've heard much worse and used it to motivate me, not tear me down.
Click to expand...
If I may add these are no longer amateurs they are paid well to perform their craft. Ludlum chose to play at a higher level and to get paid for it. With that comes the pressure and the fans expectations. Choke seems to be a very accurate description.
 
a
redmannorth said:
see

If I may add these are no longer amateurs they are paid well to perform their craft. Ludlum chose to play at a higher level and to get paid for it. With that comes the pressure and the fans expectations. Choke seems to be a very accurate description.
Click to expand...
Very good point RMN.
 
Mean Gene said:
If we beat Hofstra and go 12-8 in the Big East with one BET win we will be in the NCAA Tournament. Those goals are still very achievable at this point.
Click to expand...
True, but we need every damn game that we could get. I don't want to chance anything. Win that and we're 2-0, with the next B.E game being Butler at Carnesecca area, good chance at winning that and being 3-0. My confidence would be sky high that we'd make the NCAA Trourny.

I know, there's no going back, 2-1 is the best we could do after the Butler game.
 
mjmaherjr said:
I know you so kinda know your personality and you are tough on yourself and don't expect anything of others that you wouldn't do yourself. That's why we get a long so well

In regards to Jenkins or any player in that situation regardless of whether people think he took a good shot at the end or choked for me personally I look at it as he wasn't afraid of failure and took that shot. To me choking would be passing up the shot to let someone else with less time on the clock to take a worse shot

Fear of failure has driven me my entire life and I suspect you also. Maybe that's not exactly the right term because I'm taking that shot also and I think you would to. And knowing you pretty well I can almost guarantee you have never choked in life other than on maybe a buffalo wing after 10 beers. Maybe sometimes you didn't succeed to your own expectations but who the hell succeeds at everything in life. If we did I wouldn't need ambien. :) But you've learned from those experiences and that's why you are who you are now
Click to expand...
But he can't shoot, why are you taking that shot when most of your teammates ate better shooters?
Sorry, but that's bs, know your limitations.

I'd even want Joel to shoot the damn 3ball, about 80% i see him shoot it, he hits.

That to me is Jenkins being selfish. Oh I'm not a good shooter but I'm going to shoot it anyway.
 
NCJohnnie said:
We’ve all “choked” at times. I think what Beast and MJM are saying it’s one thing to be hard on ourselves, another to spray it on a message board at kids who already are feeling crappy enough.
Posting during games we’re almost guaranteed to say things in the heat of the game we’d like to take back and I’m as guilty as anyone. These Johnnies are all trying their best, sometimes with better results than others like all of us.
Click to expand...
Kids that are getting paid now, or am I wrong?

It's not about about the name on the front of the Jersey anymore, it's all about the almighty dollar.

Hey I say, if you want your money to play just like a professional athlete, then you're fair game.

I used to agree with that NCJ, not anymore.
 
redmannorth said:
see

If I may add these are no longer amateurs they are paid well to perform their craft. Ludlum chose to play at a higher level and to get paid for it. With that comes the pressure and the fans expectations. Choke seems to be a very accurate description.
Click to expand...
I think that we may have to leave this as irreconcilable, but are you saying it's acceptable to publically call out a player who in your subjective opinion, succumbed to the pressure of the moment and failed by calling him a "choker", simply because he receives NIL or compensated monetarily for playing, but unacceptable if not?

Are foreign players who cannot receive NIL, exempt from being called chokers?

If acceptable, do sports announcers use this term announcing games, or interviewing players who fail in big moments?

Do coaches use this phrase to publicly berate players?

Or is it just acceptable for fans to speculate publicly that the player succumbed to the pressure of the moment, and derisively say he "choked".

It's really not a divisive subject. We all know historically in sports, certain great players rise to the occasion in big moments and win games. In basketball, Jordan, Bird, Magic Johnson could all elevate their games to play better in big moments.

Opposing teams routinely use timeouts in moments where a game could be decided at the free throw line to ice a player, to get him to think of the enormity of the moment and cave in to the pressure.

Doing a web search, some writers have said choke is now widened to simply mean the team lost.

Or does choke still mean a player couldn't handle the pressure of a big moment and it's okay to tell him to his face, or via other form of direct communication, or to publicly condemn him?

Is there a dividing line, so if a 60% ft shooter makes only 1 of 2 in a big moment he didn't choke, but an 80% ft shooter did? Or is a single miss of an important ft inexcusable for anyone in a huge moment?

Great topic for a sports psychology class.

I do remember 2 guys at sju who missed the front end of a 1 and 1 at the very end of games and we lost those games at the buzzer. Bernard Rencher vs Syracuse, and Chris Mullin vs. Villanova.

Did they choke, or simply miss? And if they chokedwas it ojay then to call them chokers?
 
Soon we'll be told you can't boo anymore, because it might hurt a player's feelings. God forbid you yell "you stink!".

By and large, college sports have remained tame compared to pro sports, I expect they'll always be tamer in spite of the fact that players are now being nicely compensated. But man the stuff I heard playing organized ball as a kid would make some of you guys have a coronary, especially on the playgrounds of Brooklyn.

A number of years ago I was playing in a corporate league playoff game at Chelsea Piers. Up one with about 5 seconds left a guy fouls me. As I step to the FT line, another guy on the opposing team walks past me and whispers in my ear "choke". My teammate, hearing what he said, said to him(loud enough so i could hear it) "no shot, this guy got ice in his veins". I nailed the 2 FTs. We won. Had I let that clown get to me, and had I missed, I would have "choked". No shame in that. Sucks, but life sucks sometimes.

Merry Christmas all!
 
Beasts of the East said:
I do remember 2 guys at sju who missed the front end of a 1 and 1 at the very end of games and we lost those games at the buzzer. Bernard Rencher vs Syracuse, and Chris Mullin vs. Villanova.
Click to expand...

Shamorie Ponds missed the front end of a 1 and 1 at Seton Hall just seconds before the inadvertent whistle gave the Pirates one final shot. Don’t recall anyone labeling Ponds a choker that night.
 
Just a couple of points which have changed the face of College BB. The Portal and the extra use of eligibility due to Covid

The combination of the 2 have turned a Student Athlete sport into a Professional one .

18,19 year olds , when and if they play , are going up against 23, 24 or sometimes , 25 year old Men . So , we can drop the reference to players as Kids . They are not kids anymore .

Next , last nights game was not lost due to Jenkins who scored 13 points by the way or Ledlum missing foul shots at the end of the game . It was lost by our team , not just 2 players ..

Luis , by the way , nearly deified by many for his play part night , missed 2 easy layups and a couple of free throws . That’s 6 points right there .
Sure you can give him a pass , if you like for his return from injury status but , the reality is he missed those points .

Those missed opportunities were just as important in deciding outcome as Jenkins and Ledlum misses were later on .

And , how about Johnson , a freshman torching Soriano and whoever else was guarding him for 16 points or thereabouts . He killed us snd unexpectedly so .

Alleyne , 2 points . He was off his game in a night where we needed him to score 10 . Was his lack of production less important than the Ledlum and Jenkins misses? No, It wasn’t
-
We had 2 guys in double figures and UCOnn had 3 . That’s a big Huskies advantage .

The point being it wasn’t just Jenkins or Ledlum that lost the game last night . It was the whole team who collectively just fell short .

Early missed scoring chances are just as costly as late ones
 
Beasts of the East said:
I think that we may have to leave this as irreconcilable, but are you saying it's acceptable to publically call out a player who in your subjective opinion, succumbed to the pressure of the moment and failed by calling him a "choker", simply because he receives NIL or compensated monetarily for playing, but unacceptable if not?

Are foreign players who cannot receive NIL, exempt from being called chokers?

If acceptable, do sports announcers use this term announcing games, or interviewing players who fail in big moments?

Do coaches use this phrase to publicly berate players?

Or is it just acceptable for fans to speculate publicly that the player succumbed to the pressure of the moment, and derisively say he "choked".

It's really not a divisive subject. We all know historically in sports, certain great players rise to the occasion in big moments and win games. In basketball, Jordan, Bird, Magic Johnson could all elevate their games to play better in big moments.

Opposing teams routinely use timeouts in moments where a game could be decided at the free throw line to ice a player, to get him to think of the enormity of the moment and cave in to the pressure.

Doing a web search, some writers have said choke is now widened to simply mean the team lost.

Or does choke still mean a player couldn't handle the pressure of a big moment and it's okay to tell him to his face, or via other form of direct communication, or to publicly condemn him?

Is there a dividing line, so if a 60% ft shooter makes only 1 of 2 in a big moment he didn't choke, but an 80% ft shooter did? Or is a single miss of an important ft inexcusable for anyone in a huge moment?

Great topic for a sports psychology class.

I do remember 2 guys at sju who missed the front end of a 1 and 1 at the very end of games and we lost those games at the buzzer. Bernard Rencher vs Syracuse, and Chris Mullin vs. Villanova.

Did they choke, or simply miss? And if they chokedwas it ojay then to call them chokers?
Click to expand...
To me choke is failure that occurs primarily due to the fear of failing. Everything else is a miss or a loss. Those who have played any sport competitively know this difference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top