Point guard

[quote="Beast of the East" post=361062][quote="Moose" post=361056][quote="Beast of the East" post=361052][quote="Moose" post=361051][quote="Beast of the East" post=361049][quote="Moose" post=361043]Overblown and obscure stat :blink:

Yeah being linked in the same category as Roy Williams, Tom Izzo and Mark Few is definitely overblown.[/quote]

In an age where you play 12 or more OOC games, most teams schedule patsies in such a way that anything more than 1-2 losses OOC is a huge disappointment.

Now if you had 15 straight conferences seasons of .500 or better, that's something. Considering that Few plays in a much weaker conference than Izzo or Williams, even Few's winning record not as impressive as Williams.

Conceivably you can have a string of consecutive winning seasons overall while never having a winning season in conference. That's the point.[/quote]

Spin it however you want. The record speaks for itself. He's not a game or two above 500 either.

He's done it and so have those other 3. You can throw in Coach K but that year he was on medical leave those losses hit his record.[/quote]

It's not a spin. In fact, you are usually the negative one, and here you are being positive (I think), though argumentative.

The point is that in 17 seasons, he had 4 losing records in conference, and another 3 at .500. So when it counts, there were just 10 seasons out of 17 with a winning record in conference.

Mark Few's has had 20 straight seasons of winning records in conference. His conference record is an astounding 276.30.

Roy WIlliams has coached 31 seasons, 2. sub .500 in conference and 1 .500. Overall, has had 28 winning seasons in conference out of 31.

Tom Izzo in 24 seasons has never had a losing record in conference. He has had 5 .500 records in conference.[/quote]

Calling me argumentative is real hoot.

You want to go pull up his SOS now too then?
He isn't Tom Izzo, he isn't Roy Williams, he's not Coach K and heck he isn't Mark Few.

But he's the best COACH St. John's has had in a VERY VERY long time.

He is in elite company and you are chalking it up to a statistical anamoly. I have a feeling if someone else had such a record there would be calls for a statue.

You also put down 500 record in conference. If you are 500 in a power conference you are dancing the majority of the time. He was 14 games above 500 in the SEC! Last SJU coach that much above 500 in conference was Jarvis (technically)[/quote]

Agree that he is the best coach in a very long time. No argument here whatsoever.

But if we are talking about winning, to me at least, winning in conference is what counts. .500 in conference is by definition middle of the pack, and not outstanding. There is a reason Arkansas terminated him after 2 sub .500 years in conference. It's a nice record (consecutive winning seasons) but to me at least only means that he balanced rosters in such a way not to have a total rebuild in front of him. Almost for sure, this season will be his toughest to sustain that string.[/quote]

Far from a Hog fan here but Arkansas had a new AD. Who wanted his own coach.
His 8-10 record in conference last year was his 1st losing season in conference in quite a number of years.

But again being just over 500 in conference you might feel isn't outstanding but it will get you dancing a lot more often than not. And I'd gladly sign up for a sustained period of that.

You are right about one thing. And maybe our Hog friends can provide some background. But the OOC SOS was not strong. Below are the overall SOS and OOC SOS for his teams at Arkansas

112/325
92/287
84/305
64/263
66/179
45/202
25/141
46/159
 
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While this post seemed to drift off track from Point Guard to Coaches Conference and Non Conference records , it’s a interesting topic . I think it was pointed out that Mark Few, a great Coach had only lost like 20-30 games in his league over 20 some years of Coaching .
Surely , that is a great accomplishment but , it also means that most of those losses came from their nemesis school , St Mary’s. Which is another more than good program . But , that being given , it doesn’t say much about the rest of that League from a competitive standpoint . It’s true Gonzaga does competitively well in OOC games in the early season but , they really benefit from a weak league , other than the Gaels .. I’m a Zags fan outside the BE but , they really dominate in a very weak league . In this day and age of bloated Conferences , it would be interesting to see both, Gonzaga and St Mary’s in a Western Division of the BE . Add those to 2 Schools to Creighton , Marquette , DePaul , Butler, and add StLouis and Loyola of Chicago to that Division. The East Division would be : St John’s, Seton Hall, Providence, Villanova, G’Town, UConn. Xavier and add Dayton . 16 Teams that would be the equal of SEC, Big 10, or ACC . Maybe better . What’s Val Ackerman’s phone number ? Point Guard ? Bob Cousy from Queens...
 
Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:
 
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[quote="Moose" post=361073]Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:[/quote]

The majority of the team filled with NYC recruits. :)
 
[quote="Moose" post=361073]Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:[/quote]. Hey , it’s not a good year for NY Sports . Yanks, Mets, Giants, Jets,Rangers , Devils, , Columbia Football, etc .. Why not a little fantasy , here and there ? And , a big question mark about our Johnnies . So , feel free .
 
[quote="redken" post=361057][quote="Logen" post=361017][quote="redken" post=361005][quote="Logen" post=361002][quote="redken" post=361000][quote="AlBovino" post=360995] ... And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality ...[/quote]
No reflection on Anderson, but the difference is we now have a lone, less-than-stellar PG who's never played day-in-day-out at the Big East level, and a possible backup in Williams, who's very talented but who's not a PG (something you don't become overnight) and who, God forgive!, might have chronic back problems. So unless the Dunn decision is reversed on appeal -- very unlikely given it's the NCAA -- it'll be amazing if we're not in the cellar at season's end ... regardless of inspirational poems.[/quote]

So suggesting people see the team play before jumping off the bridge is an “inspirational poem”? Give me a break. I realize you guys are only “fans” but thank god the team and coaches are not going to write the season off before a game is played.[/quote]
I fully expect this team to be well-coached and give 100% on both ends of the court, and to hopefully see some of the younger players like Roberts and Williams get better and establish themselves as BE players, but PG is generally considered the most important position in college basketball -- something I certainly agree with -- and unfortunately we have a big fat hole there. That may not be inspirational, but it's a fact. That said, I've been rooting hard for this team since the days of Ellis and Loughery, and will continue to do so regardless of its record.[/quote]

Again, I admire your ability to KNOW where we have “a big fat hole” before a game is even played. Also admirable you will continue to root even though evidently you already have convinced yourself of the outcome of the season. I love sports for the simple reason that no one can KNOW anything until the games are played. Our last three NCAA teams did not actually have a “point guard”. We have a very experienced head coach who has been through a thing or two and a very impressive hard working staff. We have two potentially very good to great college players, one of whom I posted last year should have been the “point forward” because Ponds was not a “point guard”: not a knock on him, he wasn’t one anymore than Hardy or Greene were. I am not here to say we are going to be great or even good, not offering any “inspirational poems” but merely saying, let’s see some games. As I have posted before; two legitimate, unselfish offensive threats coupled with hard defensive play can go a long way. Let’s find out.......................[/quote]
Logen, I hope you prove me wrong. I'll be very happy if you do. (By the way, I don't see any conflict with rooting for a favorite team, knowing its outlook isn't very favorable. It's what a true fan does: accepts things as they are and hopes for the better.)[/quote]

Look, I am not trying to prove anyone wrong. All I am saying is let’s see the team play before deciding the season is down the tubes; that to me is a very neutral, common sense position, nothing more nothing less.
 
[quote="Logen" post=361094][quote="redken" post=361057][quote="Logen" post=361017][quote="redken" post=361005][quote="Logen" post=361002][quote="redken" post=361000][quote="AlBovino" post=360995] ... And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality ...[/quote]
No reflection on Anderson, but the difference is we now have a lone, less-than-stellar PG who's never played day-in-day-out at the Big East level, and a possible backup in Williams, who's very talented but who's not a PG (something you don't become overnight) and who, God forgive!, might have chronic back problems. So unless the Dunn decision is reversed on appeal -- very unlikely given it's the NCAA -- it'll be amazing if we're not in the cellar at season's end ... regardless of inspirational poems.[/quote]

So suggesting people see the team play before jumping off the bridge is an “inspirational poem”? Give me a break. I realize you guys are only “fans” but thank god the team and coaches are not going to write the season off before a game is played.[/quote]
I fully expect this team to be well-coached and give 100% on both ends of the court, and to hopefully see some of the younger players like Roberts and Williams get better and establish themselves as BE players, but PG is generally considered the most important position in college basketball -- something I certainly agree with -- and unfortunately we have a big fat hole there. That may not be inspirational, but it's a fact. That said, I've been rooting hard for this team since the days of Ellis and Loughery, and will continue to do so regardless of its record.[/quote]

Again, I admire your ability to KNOW where we have “a big fat hole” before a game is even played. Also admirable you will continue to root even though evidently you already have convinced yourself of the outcome of the season. I love sports for the simple reason that no one can KNOW anything until the games are played. Our last three NCAA teams did not actually have a “point guard”. We have a very experienced head coach who has been through a thing or two and a very impressive hard working staff. We have two potentially very good to great college players, one of whom I posted last year should have been the “point forward” because Ponds was not a “point guard”: not a knock on him, he wasn’t one anymore than Hardy or Greene were. I am not here to say we are going to be great or even good, not offering any “inspirational poems” but merely saying, let’s see some games. As I have posted before; two legitimate, unselfish offensive threats coupled with hard defensive play can go a long way. Let’s find out.......................[/quote]
Logen, I hope you prove me wrong. I'll be very happy if you do. (By the way, I don't see any conflict with rooting for a favorite team, knowing its outlook isn't very favorable. It's what a true fan does: accepts things as they are and hopes for the better.)[/quote]

Look, I am not trying to prove anyone wrong. All I am saying is let’s see the team play before deciding the season is down the tubes; that to me is a very neutral, common sense position, nothing more nothing less.[/quote]
Just very frustrated by a horrible series of setbacks to kick off the season and a potential one looming with Williams' back problems (always a tricky thing). But unless Rutherford greatly surprises (dare I say, shocks) us with an unlikely David Cain-like senior year, I'm having serious trouble with being optimistic with regard to wins and losses. ... Yet as frustrating as it'll be (and maybe inconcievable for you), I'll still be rooting my butt off for the team, and especially for some good things in Mike Anderson's first year.
 
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[quote="Moose" post=361073]Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:[/quote] What channel is it and how tall are you in that pic! Cmon Moose... Side note. Just saw Coach in the stands at the Knicks game. He's going nuts for Portis and he's having a great game.
 
[quote="SI1996" post=361108][quote="Moose" post=361073]Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:[/quote] What channel is it and how tall are you in that pic! Cmon Moose... Side note. Just saw Coach in the stands at the Knicks game. He's going nuts for Portis and he's having a great game.[/quote]

I let you down. Those two were layups
 
[quote="SI1996" post=361108][quote="Moose" post=361073]Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:[/quote] What channel is it and how tall are you in that pic! Cmon Moose... Side note. Just saw Coach in the stands at the Knicks game. He's going nuts for Portis and he's having a great game.[/quote]

And the Knicks won!
 
[quote="Andrew" post=361135][quote="SI1996" post=361108][quote="Moose" post=361073]Bring back Redmen name
There should be a Locals Only Holiday tournament
Seatback at CA
Gonzaga to the Big East

What did I miss :whistle:[/quote] What channel is it and how tall are you in that pic! Cmon Moose... Side note. Just saw Coach in the stands at the Knicks game. He's going nuts for Portis and he's having a great game.[/quote]

And the Knicks won![/quote]

And NYU goes back to Division I and every other year there is a late season double header in the Garden, Manhattan vs. Fordham and NYU vs. St. John's with the student bodies marching in to the Garden en masse' and many venues in the surrounding area running out of beer.
 
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