Point guard

While I hope that Dunn wins his appeal, I am not ready to give up on the season just yet. The most important thing now is for Greg Williams to get healthy. There really is not that much difference between Dunn and Williams. While at St. Francis, Dunn was a Shooting guard. If Williams had not been playing behind Ponds and Simon, he probably would have shown us more. In Coach Anderson's offense, the guards plus LJ can push the ball up the court and initiate the offense.

It will be a struggle because Dunn would have given us depth on the perimeter. Coach is going to play the hand that he has been dealt and I think he will have the team prepared. He has been here seven months and already you can feel the difference in the atmosphere around the program. He has commitments for the 2020 class already and may add 1 or 2 more. People talk about the past twenty or so years, that is not on Coach Anderson. All I expect out of this season is a well coached hard playing team.
 
[quote="panther2" post=360975]While I hope that Dunn wins his appeal, I am not ready to give up on the season just yet. The most important thing now is for Greg Williams to get healthy. There really is not that much difference between Dunn and Williams. While at St. Francis, Dunn was a Shooting guard. If Williams had not been playing behind Ponds and Simon, he probably would have shown us more. In Coach Anderson's offense, the guards plus LJ can push the ball up the court and initiate the offense.
[/quote]

All respect to you Panther, but I'm not buying this argument. You're making the same kind of argument that an NFL team does, when their QB goes down for the year, and they start saying, "well, we have 2 or 3 guys who can fill in, while he's gone." We know what that REALLY means.

Bottom line, the McGriff redshirt, and 2 appeals lost, has basically torpedoed this season, before we have even played a game. Two weeks ago, I thought 16 or 17 wins was possible (though unlikely). Now, the ceiling for wins is around 10, IMO, and that might set us back in the recruiting game, when kids see our record.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=360977][quote="panther2" post=360975]While I hope that Dunn wins his appeal, I am not ready to give up on the season just yet. The most important thing now is for Greg Williams to get healthy. There really is not that much difference between Dunn and Williams. While at St. Francis, Dunn was a Shooting guard. If Williams had not been playing behind Ponds and Simon, he probably would have shown us more. In Coach Anderson's offense, the guards plus LJ can push the ball up the court and initiate the offense.
[/quote]

All respect to you Panther, but I'm not buying this argument. You're making the same kind of argument that an NFL team does, when their QB goes down for the year, and they start saying, "well, we have 2 or 3 guys who can fill in, while he's gone." We know what that REALLY means.

Bottom line, the McGriff redshirt, and 2 appeals lost, has basically torpedoed this season, before we have even played a game. Two weeks ago, I thought 16 or 17 wins was possible (though unlikely). Now, the ceiling for wins is around 10, IMO, and that might set us back in the recruiting game, when kids see our record.[/quote]

+1000
 
I may be close but not quite as pessimistic on the season yet. We'll be okay if there's an expedited appeal process and Rasheem's waiver request denial is reversed and he misses 5 - 10 games (at most).
And I think Panther's point is a good one. If GW is healthy, he may be a solid fill-in for Rasheem. I am confident that as Panther says, this team will be well-coached and play hard.
 
[quote="panther2" post=360975]While I hope that Dunn wins his appeal, I am not ready to give up on the season just yet. The most important thing now is for Greg Williams to get healthy. There really is not that much difference between Dunn and Williams. While at St. Francis, Dunn was a Shooting guard. If Williams had not been playing behind Ponds and Simon, he probably would have shown us more. In Coach Anderson's offense, the guards plus LJ can push the ball up the court and initiate the offense.

It will be a struggle because Dunn would have given us depth on the perimeter. Coach is going to play the hand that he has been dealt and I think he will have the team prepared. He has been here seven months and already you can feel the difference in the atmosphere around the program. He has commitments for the 2020 class already and may add 1 or 2 more. People talk about the past twenty or so years, that is not on Coach Anderson. All I expect out of this season is a well coached hard playing team.[/quote]

Well said and very true. Still amazed at the “insight” so many posters have to write off a season before a game is played by players they have never seen play, with coaches with a proven track record of teams where the total is greater than the sum of the parts. Me, I am certain your last sentence will hold true and remain hopeful we will have a much better record than expected.
 
I agree with Panther2. Not having Dunn is bad. No way around that. We'd be a better team if he was eligible but I think we're getting a little carried away. A ceiling of 10 wins?

Just as a comparison, Mullin had 8 wins in his first season. That teams best 2 best players were (depending on your preference I guess) some combination of a freshman Yakwe, a freshman Mussini, a freshman Malik Ellison and grad transfer Durand Johnson. That team had NO pg at all. They used Mussini and Ellison neither of whom have any real pg ability. That team had a head coach who had never coached a game of basketball before.

This team's 2 best players are Mustapha Heron and LJ Figueroa. 2 pre-season 2nd team all conference players. This team at least has one true PG. You may not be excited by Nick Rutherford but he's played PG in 60 or 70 Division 1 basketball games. This team has a veteran coach with nearly 400 wins who has never had a losing season.

I don't think we're in for a smooth ride by any means but to say our ceiling is 10 wins before we've played a game feels overly pessimistic. I get that we're all disappointed but let's have some perspective.
 
[quote="QueensBall" post=360992]I agree with Panther2. Not having Dunn is bad. No way around that. We'd be a better team if he was eligible but I think we're getting a little carried away. A ceiling of 10 wins?

Just as a comparison, Mullin had 8 wins in his first season. That teams best 2 best players were (depending on your preference I guess) some combination of a freshman Yakwe, a freshman Mussini, a freshman Malik Ellison and grad transfer Durand Johnson. That team had NO pg at all. They used Mussini and Ellison neither of whom have any real pg ability. That team had a head coach who had never coached a game of basketball before.

This team's 2 best players are Mustapha Heron and LJ Figueroa. 2 pre-season 2nd team all conference players. This team at least has one true PG. You may not be excited by Nick Rutherford but he's played PG in 60 or 70 Division 1 basketball games. This team has a veteran coach with nearly 400 wins who has never had a losing season.

I don't think we're in for a smooth ride by any means but to say our ceiling is 10 wins before we've played a game feels overly pessimistic. I get that we're all disappointed but let's have some perspective.[/quote]

This is a better team then Mullin's first, but I do think the final records can be similar. The Big East this year, is much better top to bottom then that year (and that was Nova's first national title year - well, second, but first of this era), and while the non-conference schedule is not super tough, it's got it's fair share of challenges, much more so then that year did, IMO.

We'll probably be double digit underdogs to Vermont. I can't ever remember that happening in a non-conference game on campus.
 
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Once again relax girls this season has yet to be played.. Kudos to Logen and Panther for having some common sense. God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality, have faith in our new coach and root for the upcoming year regardless of things that are out of our control..
 
[quote="thetux1" post=360891]Can someone give me a clue as to our PG depth chart. One is out for the year with injury and another was just ruled ineligible by the wise and powerful NCAA so who is left?

Williams?

?

?


This is the most important position and we just lost 2 guys in the last week[/quote]

I would imagine the current depth chart looks like this...

1. Rutherford / Williams
2. Heron / Williams
3. LJ / Caraher
4. Champaigne / Earlington
5. Roberts / Sears

With only 9 scholarship players, it's really going to be a challenge to play CMA's system the way he really wants to. Now, he can, the team last year really only went 9 deep, but he teams really thrive when he has enough guys to guy 10 or 11 deep.

Does anyone know how long the appeal typically takes with the NCAA? With the way the NCAA rules, even if this decision is overturned it may take them several weeks to do it.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=360994][quote="QueensBall" post=360992]I agree with Panther2. Not having Dunn is bad. No way around that. We'd be a better team if he was eligible but I think we're getting a little carried away. A ceiling of 10 wins?

Just as a comparison, Mullin had 8 wins in his first season. That teams best 2 best players were (depending on your preference I guess) some combination of a freshman Yakwe, a freshman Mussini, a freshman Malik Ellison and grad transfer Durand Johnson. That team had NO pg at all. They used Mussini and Ellison neither of whom have any real pg ability. That team had a head coach who had never coached a game of basketball before.

This team's 2 best players are Mustapha Heron and LJ Figueroa. 2 pre-season 2nd team all conference players. This team at least has one true PG. You may not be excited by Nick Rutherford but he's played PG in 60 or 70 Division 1 basketball games. This team has a veteran coach with nearly 400 wins who has never had a losing season.

I don't think we're in for a smooth ride by any means but to say our ceiling is 10 wins before we've played a game feels overly pessimistic. I get that we're all disappointed but let's have some perspective.[/quote]

This is a better team then Mullin's first, but I do think the final records can be similar. The Big East this year, is much better top to bottom then that year (and that was Nova's first national title year - well, second, but first of this era), and while the non-conference schedule is not super tough, it's got it's fair share of challenges, much more so then that year did, IMO.

We'll probably be double digit underdogs to Vermont. I can't ever remember that happening in a non-conference game on campus.[/quote]

With all due respect, I can’t remember a game that was decided by a point spread. Bets, yes, W or L, no.
 
Making Plays wrote: With only 9 scholarship players, it's really going to be a challenge to play CMA's system the way he really wants to. Now, he can, the team last year really only went 9 deep, but he teams really thrive when he has enough guys to guy 10 or 11 deep.

Does anyone know how long the appeal typically takes with the NCAA? With the way the NCAA rules, even if this decision is overturned it may take them several weeks to do it.

I'm less concerned with the timing of an appeal decision than the process, which I've been unsuccessfully trying to Google. Any decent appeals process requires that the appeal be decided by individuals who had no part in the initial decision and do not report to anyone involved in that decision and also requires that no deference be given to that initial decision. Somehow I doubt it works that way with the NCAA.
 
We'd probably be dogs to Vermont even with Dunn. They'll have the best player on the court and have potential to be a top 25 team this year. They're good.

That 1st Mullin team went 1-15 in the Big East. Even though we're bummed can we agree this team has a pretty decent chance to win more than 1 game in conference?
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=360995] ... And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality ...[/quote]
No reflection on Anderson, but the difference is we now have a lone, less-than-stellar PG who's never played day-in-day-out at the Big East level, and a possible backup in Williams, who's very talented but who's not a PG (something you don't become overnight) and who, God forgive!, might have chronic back problems. So unless the Dunn decision is reversed on appeal -- very unlikely given it's the NCAA -- it'll be amazing if we're not in the cellar at season's end ... regardless of inspirational poems.
 
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[quote="QueensBall" post=360999]We'd probably be dogs to Vermont even with Dunn. They'll have the best player on the court and have potential to be a top 25 team this year. They're good.

That 1st Mullin team went 1-15 in the Big East. Even though we're bummed can we agree this team has a pretty decent chance to win more than 1 game in conference?[/quote] Well, the first two home games are against Butler and Depaul. We'd better get at least one of them. I don't know where the victories are coming from, if we lose both of those games. If we get one of them (or both), that could lead to some increased confidence, and a few more victories down the road.
 
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[quote="redken" post=361000][quote="AlBovino" post=360995] ... And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality ...[/quote]
No reflection on Anderson, but the difference is we now have a lone, less-than-stellar PG who's never played day-in-day-out at the Big East level, and a possible backup in Williams, who's very talented but who's not a PG (something you don't become overnight) and who, God forgive!, might have chronic back problems. So unless the Dunn decision is reversed on appeal -- very unlikely given it's the NCAA -- it'll be amazing if we're not in the cellar at season's end ... regardless of inspirational poems.[/quote]

So suggesting people see the team play before jumping off the bridge is an “inspirational poem”? Give me a break. I realize you guys are only “fans” but thank god the team and coaches are not going to write the season off before a game is played.
 
AlBovino wrote: Once again relax girls this season has yet to be played.. Kudos to Logen and Panther for having some common sense. God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality, have faith in our new coach and root for the upcoming year regardless of things that are out of our control..

Sorry, can't let this one go. Yesterday my wife & I attended a Stop the Hate rally in Davidson, NC. There were speakers from the local synagogue, African American church etc. There was also a young woman who spoke eloquently about the verbal & physical abuse of women that is so commonplace and often unintended.
The reference above to "girls" is a classic example of that kind of derogatory reference. Just completely unnecessary imho.
 
The NCAA has to reverse this upside-down decision. They must. My clueless guess is in tandem with Ian Steere's eligibility being restored so that it all corresponds to their sense of upholding the credibility of the NCAA--self-pompous arses that they are.
 
[quote="Logen" post=361002][quote="redken" post=361000][quote="AlBovino" post=360995] ... And wisdom to know the difference. Would be nice if some fans could deal with reality ...[/quote]
No reflection on Anderson, but the difference is we now have a lone, less-than-stellar PG who's never played day-in-day-out at the Big East level, and a possible backup in Williams, who's very talented but who's not a PG (something you don't become overnight) and who, God forgive!, might have chronic back problems. So unless the Dunn decision is reversed on appeal -- very unlikely given it's the NCAA -- it'll be amazing if we're not in the cellar at season's end ... regardless of inspirational poems.[/quote]

So suggesting people see the team play before jumping off the bridge is an “inspirational poem”? Give me a break. I realize you guys are only “fans” but thank god the team and coaches are not going to write the season off before a game is played.[/quote]
I fully expect this team to be well-coached and give 100% on both ends of the court, and to hopefully see some of the younger players like Roberts and Williams get better and establish themselves as BE players, but PG is generally considered the most important position in college basketball -- something I certainly agree with -- and unfortunately we have a big fat hole there. That may not be inspirational, but it's a fact. That said, I've been rooting hard for this team since the days of Ellis and Loughery, and will continue to do so regardless of its record.
 
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Didn’t we just beat a top 100 Tournament bound team without Steere and Dunn?Doesnt sound like imminent disaster to me. I was pretty impressed actually.
 
[quote="Fred Solomon" post=361006]Didn’t we just beat a top 100 Tournament bound team without Steere and Dunn?Doesnt sound like imminent disaster to me. I was pretty impressed actually.[/quote]

I agree Fred. It's not looking good but I'm not ready to unfurl the white flag yet. The problem is the 9-man rotation in a 40-minutes-of-hell script, but hoping that the NCAA realizes the myopia and unfairness of this decision and reverses it, at minimum, before the Big East begins.
The NCAA could then congratulate itself on restoring half-a-season to the young man's career.
And this is the time for the Conference to step in for a big assist.
 
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