Pitino: St. John's Made Mistakes After Louie

 He's entirely right. Lavin changed everything here. Hope he's here for a long, long time.
 
The article doesn't quite get to the issue. After coach Carnesecca retired St. John's didn't put a coaching staff together that had proven ability to get players to the league. It worked for a short while, but they got less and highly recruited players as time went on. Within 5 years, UCONN and Syracuse and others could come into New York and tell recruits that they had the staff with proven ability to get you prepared to play in the league, and if they had a chance to play at the next level they shouldn't go to St. John's. St. John's didn't have a coaching staff that could compete at the same level for top 50 players anymore. What Lavin brought was UCLA and ESPN cred and a reputation for coaching players like Baron Davis. Assistants that worked in the NBA too. 
 
The myopic vision of St. John's recruiting being centered in New York was shared by the overwhelming number of posters on this site who posted that any coaching hire at St. John's had to be a "New York guy" (whatever that phrase was suppose to means) with the foolish implication that kids outside of the Tri- State area would not want to play for St. John's..

The reality is (and has been) that for every New York basketball prospect that wants to leave New York there at many more high prospects that are intrigued with the idea of playing in New York and Madison Square Garden.
 
Words of wisdom from Ricky I for one can live without.

Coach Pitino "made mistakes" with respect to his choice of dinner partners at Italian restaurants he frequented late nights in beautiful Louisville, KY.

I don't think Coach C was ever a huge fan of RP or his clone John Calipari.

We don't need him commenting on our mistakes with 20-20 hindsight. He was probably thrilled.
 
Pitino's point is simplistic and not all that accurate.

We've fallen off the map post-Louie because his successors were either not that good (Mahoney, Norm), insane (Fran) or lazy (Jarvis).

As for recruiting the city.....

Mahoney recruited NYC very well (McLeod, Lopez, Hamilton, Ty Grant) and even got a gem from out of the area (Postell), but his fatal recruiting flaw was not getting a top-flight point guard especially when NYC was teeming with them (Marbury, God, Kareem Reid, Ed Cota, etc) and instead brought in a national recruit (Tarik Turner) who never grew into the position.

Fran recruited NYC just as well (Barkley, Artest, Jessie, Chudney, Glover) but made sure he nabbed an elite PG.

Jarvis was lazy and arrogant - two attributes that will kill recruiting whether in NYC or Duluth. It was Mahoney and Fran's recruits that reached the Elite 8 and a BE championship.

Norm just couldn't compete at any level due to infractions and his own inability to close. In fact, many of the players he brought in were from outside NYC - (Mason, Spears, Kennedy, Horne, Evans, Brownlee, etc).

And Lavin has been remarkable at selling STJ nationwide. I mean for godsakes we're going to have an all-Texas backcourt come December.
  
 
Pitino's point is simplistic and not all that accurate.

We've fallen off the map post-Louie because his successors were either not that good (Mahoney, Norm), insane (Fran) or lazy (Jarvis).

As for recruiting the city.....

Mahoney recruited NYC very well (McLeod, Lopez, Hamilton, Ty Grant) and even got a gem from out of the area (Postell), but his fatal recruiting flaw was not getting a top-flight point guard especially when NYC was teeming with them (Marbury, God, Kareem Reid, Ed Cota, etc) and instead brought in a national recruit (Tarik Turner) who never grew into the position.

Fran recruited NYC just as well (Barkley, Artest, Jessie, Chudney, Glover) but made sure he nabbed an elite PG.

Jarvis was lazy and arrogant - two attributes that will kill recruiting whether in NYC or Duluth. It was Mahoney and Fran's recruits that reached the Elite 8 and a BE championship.

Norm just couldn't compete at any level due to infractions and his own inability to close. In fact, many of the players he brought in were from outside NYC - (Mason, Spears, Kennedy, Horne, Evans, Brownlee, etc).

And Lavin has been remarkable at selling STJ nationwide. I mean for godsakes we're going to have an all-Texas backcourt come December.
  
Click to expand...
 

That is a dead on post......
 
Pitino's point is simplistic and not all that accurate.

We've fallen off the map post-Louie because his successors were either not that good (Mahoney, Norm), insane (Fran) or lazy (Jarvis).

As for recruiting the city.....

Mahoney recruited NYC very well (McLeod, Lopez, Hamilton, Ty Grant) and even got a gem from out of the area (Postell), but his fatal recruiting flaw was not getting a top-flight point guard especially when NYC was teeming with them (Marbury, God, Kareem Reid, Ed Cota, etc) and instead brought in a national recruit (Tarik Turner) who never grew into the position.

Fran recruited NYC just as well (Barkley, Artest, Jessie, Chudney, Glover) but made sure he nabbed an elite PG.

Jarvis was lazy and arrogant - two attributes that will kill recruiting whether in NYC or Duluth. It was Mahoney and Fran's recruits that reached the Elite 8 and a BE championship.

Norm just couldn't compete at any level due to infractions and his own inability to close. In fact, many of the players he brought in were from outside NYC - (Mason, Spears, Kennedy, Horne, Evans, Brownlee, etc).

And Lavin has been remarkable at selling STJ nationwide. I mean for godsakes we're going to have an all-Texas backcourt come December.
  
Click to expand...
 

+1. Jarvis was the cancer that lead to the programs long decline. Fran could have brought STJ back to the elite level, if he could have kept his pants up. And Mahoney was a nice guy and loyal to the program. He just wasn't cut out to be a head coach.
 
I remember back in Louie's day, I preferred the slow down game of St. John's. Looking for the good shot. I hated Syracuse like teams that were run and gun. But now days, kids seem more athletic, and they love playing the up-tempo style. I have long since forced myself to change with the times. Now it seems natural to me to follow a team that plays up tempo. But the great defense is still there, so it's easy to live with. Besides, how many of the top recruits would want to play for a team that plays a slow down offense?
 
Hey, recruiting from the N.Y. streets was the obvious thing to do. Does anyone remember the Journal American Baseball Games held at Yankee Stadium? Well, the best talented N.Y. baseball players played against the best U.S. players. That's right, United States.  
 
Hey, recruiting from the N.Y. streets was the obvious thing to do. Does anyone remember the Journal American Baseball Games held at Yankee Stadium? Well, the best talented N.Y. baseball players played against the best U.S. players. That's right, United States.  
Click to expand...
 

Yeah, but if I remember correctly, they played with a "Spaldeen."
 
How often did we even get the best New York kid to stay home? I'd like to see a list of the top 5 NYC kids each year for the past 35 years or so.

Maybe we got the best kids in the '50s and '60s each year, but that was before my time. I'm guessing Mullin was the best in his class, Sealy, Berry, and Artest, but other than that, who have we gotten in the past generation and a half? 

Edit: Forgot Felipe.
 
Pitino's point is simplistic and not all that accurate.

We've fallen off the map post-Louie because his successors were either not that good (Mahoney, Norm), insane (Fran) or lazy (Jarvis).

As for recruiting the city.....

Mahoney recruited NYC very well (McLeod, Lopez, Hamilton, Ty Grant) and even got a gem from out of the area (Postell), but his fatal recruiting flaw was not getting a top-flight point guard especially when NYC was teeming with them (Marbury, God, Kareem Reid, Ed Cota, etc) and instead brought in a national recruit (Tarik Turner) who never grew into the position.

Fran recruited NYC just as well (Barkley, Artest, Jessie, Chudney, Glover) but made sure he nabbed an elite PG.

Jarvis was lazy and arrogant - two attributes that will kill recruiting whether in NYC or Duluth. It was Mahoney and Fran's recruits that reached the Elite 8 and a BE championship.

Norm just couldn't compete at any level due to infractions and his own inability to close. In fact, many of the players he brought in were from outside NYC - (Mason, Spears, Kennedy, Horne, Evans, Brownlee, etc).

And Lavin has been remarkable at selling STJ nationwide. I mean for godsakes we're going to have an all-Texas backcourt come December.
  
Click to expand...
 

For all the negative post re: Mahoney, he recruited, what most people thought was, the top HS player in the nation along with another top recruit as well the others mentioned.IMO what hurt him the most is that they were not as good as advertised.

Had they been as good as advertised, we would have been good and who knows, maybe he would have grown into the job. I wont say that I knew him well but he was a real nice guy and a tough player (unintentionally gave me a bloody mouth in a pickup gane and I was on his team -- LOL)...In any case, we're on our way back!!!
 
Pitino's point is simplistic and not all that accurate.

We've fallen off the map post-Louie because his successors were either not that good (Mahoney, Norm), insane (Fran) or lazy (Jarvis).

As for recruiting the city.....

Mahoney recruited NYC very well (McLeod, Lopez, Hamilton, Ty Grant) and even got a gem from out of the area (Postell), but his fatal recruiting flaw was not getting a top-flight point guard especially when NYC was teeming with them (Marbury, God, Kareem Reid, Ed Cota, etc) and instead brought in a national recruit (Tarik Turner) who never grew into the position.

Fran recruited NYC just as well (Barkley, Artest, Jessie, Chudney, Glover) but made sure he nabbed an elite PG.

Jarvis was lazy and arrogant - two attributes that will kill recruiting whether in NYC or Duluth. It was Mahoney and Fran's recruits that reached the Elite 8 and a BE championship.

Norm just couldn't compete at any level due to infractions and his own inability to close. In fact, many of the players he brought in were from outside NYC - (Mason, Spears, Kennedy, Horne, Evans, Brownlee, etc).

And Lavin has been remarkable at selling STJ nationwide. I mean for godsakes we're going to have an all-Texas backcourt come December.
  
Click to expand...
 

For all the negative post re: Mahoney, he recruited, what most people thought was, the top HS player in the nation along with another top recruit as well the others mentioned.IMO what hurt him the most is that they were not as good as advertised.

Had they been as good as advertised, we would have been good and who knows, maybe he would have grown into the job. I wont say that I knew him well but he was a real nice guy and a tough player (unintentionally gave me a bloody mouth in a pickup gane and I was on his team -- LOL)...In any case, we're on our way back!!!
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I don't think anyone would knock his personality or recruiting ability. It was his X's and O's that did us in.
 
Jarvis snubbed his nose at NYC. With Pitino's logic, he was the perfect man for the job.

"What if". What if Jarvis landed Carlos Boozer? What if we didn't draw Gonzaga?

Hindsight is 20-20 Rick. Programs have ups and downs. Our campus facilities simply could not compete with other schools. We're just now digging out of the mess created by former coaches/players.

He really simplified a much broader issue. MainMan hit the nail on the head.
 
I don't think anyone would knock his personality or recruiting ability. It was his X's and O's that did us in.
Click to expand...
 

As good a recruiter as Mahoney was, he had a considerable advantage over his successors: he took the reigns during a golden age of STJ hoops: eight years removed from a FF, perineal top BE team, 11 out of 12 years with an NCAA appearance, a year after a preseason Top 10 team, a half dozen 1st round picks, etc.  
 
Pitino's point is simplistic and not all that accurate.

We've fallen off the map post-Louie because his successors were either not that good (Mahoney, Norm), insane (Fran) or lazy (Jarvis).

As for recruiting the city.....

Mahoney recruited NYC very well (McLeod, Lopez, Hamilton, Ty Grant) and even got a gem from out of the area (Postell), but his fatal recruiting flaw was not getting a top-flight point guard especially when NYC was teeming with them (Marbury, God, Kareem Reid, Ed Cota, etc) and instead brought in a national recruit (Tarik Turner) who never grew into the position.

Fran recruited NYC just as well (Barkley, Artest, Jessie, Chudney, Glover) but made sure he nabbed an elite PG.

Jarvis was lazy and arrogant - two attributes that will kill recruiting whether in NYC or Duluth. It was Mahoney and Fran's recruits that reached the Elite 8 and a BE championship.

Norm just couldn't compete at any level due to infractions and his own inability to close. In fact, many of the players he brought in were from outside NYC - (Mason, Spears, Kennedy, Horne, Evans, Brownlee, etc).

And Lavin has been remarkable at selling STJ nationwide. I mean for godsakes we're going to have an all-Texas backcourt come December.
  
Click to expand...
 

Fantastic post.
 
How often did we even get the best New York kid to stay home? I'd like to see a list of the top 5 NYC kids each year for the past 35 years or so.

Maybe we got the best kids in the '50s and '60s each year, but that was before my time. I'm guessing Mullin was the best in his class, Sealy, Berry, and Artest, but other than that, who have we gotten in the past generation and a half? 

Edit: Forgot Felipe.
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Prior to Norm's arrival, we got plenty of top 5 NYC area kids in addition to the ones you mention. Just to name a few:
Jackson
Shelton Jones
Werdann
Boo Harvey(transfer)
Zendon
Barclay
Cook
Cuffe
Shaw
Shawnelle Scott
Glover

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of guys.
 
True, but for every one that came to STJ there was one that didn't. In Cook's year for example the only reason STJ got one of the Big Three NYC PG's that year was because UNC recruited over him, or else STJ would have missed on Omar, Taliek and Andre. STJ used to get its fair share then even that stopped, but the point is they stopped getting the majority when college hoops/ncaa/tv coverage started going national in the early 80's. Fair comment?
 
 We landed Harkless and he went pro after one year. We are currently recruiting jermaine Lawrence for this class, Isiah Whitehead and Chris McCullough for the next and down the line. Only thing we can do is target the ones that are at the level Lavin feels we need to target. Thus far, I think the formula is working tremendously. I'd looove to land Jermaine Lawrence in this class. It would mean we are hauling in the select NYC kids that we need to. Its great that we're getting a great response at the national level and pulling elite talent from just about everywhere.
 
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