pistol pete vs st johns
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Freshman teams were for freshmen; it was the only level they could play on at the time, and many or most were scholarship players. Junior varsity teams were primarily for sophs who weren't ready (or talented enough) to move up to the varsity. If I remember correctly (and I'm not saying I am), they weren't scholarship players, although there might have been an exception or two. It was almost an invisible level of play.
beast of the east
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Monte, you may be unaware that in 1960 or 1961 Iowa was the number one ranked team in the country, led by none other than Don Nelson. Hawkins was on the freshman team, and they played a scrimmage against the varsity that drew great fanfare. It soon became more than a scrimmage, and the freshmen, led by Hawkins, domianted the varsity squad and won the game.
Another legendary game was vs. Wilt Chamberlain in the Rucker league. Chamberlain had averaged 50 ppg and was regarded as an aboslute monster. Hawkins already banned, but had a spectacular schoolyard legend. Pros, even Chamberlain claiber would actually have to prove themselves on the asphalt against some of the toughest players in the city. Early in the game, Hawkins drove right at Chamberlain who went up to contest the shot. Hawkins kept going up and hook-dunked over Chamberlain, something no one had ever seen before. The game had to be stopped as fans went crazy and celebrated on and off the court.
Off course, as the story goes, Chamberlain regrouped, blocked ever single shot that went up, catching some in mid year - goaltending wasn't called because it was schoolyard and Chamberlain was in a rage. He caught teammates shots and slammed them home. Chamberlain's team won by about 80, but Hawkins legend was set.
The Hawk was no doubt a legend, unfortunately his injuries shortened what looked to be a great career. I meant my comment not as a knock on the Hawk, but IMO he did not have the kind of athleticism nor all around game that the Doc had. The Hawk's game was more about power, Doc was more about finesse. Both had huge hands which allowed them to control the ball extremely well around the hoop. In fairness, I watched a lot more of Dr. J than the Hawk. If I were starting a team, I would have been glad to have either(with the edge to Doc) as my 1st pick.
[A this juncture, the only one who knows for certain what occured in 1965 is Jabbar. The other mystery is did SJU have a chance to get Alcindor after his first year at UCLA, when he considered transferring. One of the posters a while back remembered seeing Alcindor visiting campus during the summer of 1966. It might have just been a casual visit, but if Louie turned him down, now that would be a story.
quote="Class of 72" post=47777]
Seems like only yesterday redken, doesn't it? LOL!
I remember 1964 as if it were yesterday. It was the British invasion, the Beatles, Dave Clark Five, Zombies, etc. The Beach Boys and Jan and Dean were the California L.A. Sound but the San Fransico bands were just taking off like the Jefferson Airplane, Moby Grape and the Dead. Lew was not into any of the early 60's bubble gum scene. He was into JAZZ.
The early Wooden teams were anything but "free-spirited". Wooden was a strict disciplinarian back then and was the most gifted "teacher" the game has ever known.
Yes, St. John's was very conservative back then, but so was Notre Dame, Georgetown and Villanova. Lew's parents were conservative Catholics and wanted him to attend a Cathloic college. Like many kids that attended parochial schools back then I am sure Lew resented and pushed back. I cannot say it had anything to do with his decision.
I think the fact that UCLA had just won its 2nd NCAA Championship had much more to do with it. Prior to 1963, UCLA was a west-coast school with an average winning record playing in a gym no bigger than Alumnj Hall, Pauley was in the planning stages and all the press focused on the eastern schools. Even average St. John' s team's in the late 50's got more press than UCLA or any of the pre-PAC 10 schools.
Personally, I think the exposure to a "professor-like" coach that had just won his second national title and meeting Walt Hazzard, Gail Goodrich, etc. tipped his decision in UCLA's favor.
I recall my good friend telling me his dad was not happy about his decision but, in the end, it changed the course of college basketball history. One can only imagine what St. John's and NYC college basketball would have been like had his father over-ruled the decision.[/quote]
quote="Class of 72" post=47777]
Seems like only yesterday redken, doesn't it? LOL!
I remember 1964 as if it were yesterday. It was the British invasion, the Beatles, Dave Clark Five, Zombies, etc. The Beach Boys and Jan and Dean were the California L.A. Sound but the San Fransico bands were just taking off like the Jefferson Airplane, Moby Grape and the Dead. Lew was not into any of the early 60's bubble gum scene. He was into JAZZ.
The early Wooden teams were anything but "free-spirited". Wooden was a strict disciplinarian back then and was the most gifted "teacher" the game has ever known.
Yes, St. John's was very conservative back then, but so was Notre Dame, Georgetown and Villanova. Lew's parents were conservative Catholics and wanted him to attend a Cathloic college. Like many kids that attended parochial schools back then I am sure Lew resented and pushed back. I cannot say it had anything to do with his decision.
I think the fact that UCLA had just won its 2nd NCAA Championship had much more to do with it. Prior to 1963, UCLA was a west-coast school with an average winning record playing in a gym no bigger than Alumnj Hall, Pauley was in the planning stages and all the press focused on the eastern schools. Even average St. John' s team's in the late 50's got more press than UCLA or any of the pre-PAC 10 schools.
Personally, I think the exposure to a "professor-like" coach that had just won his second national title and meeting Walt Hazzard, Gail Goodrich, etc. tipped his decision in UCLA's favor.
I recall my good friend telling me his dad was not happy about his decision but, in the end, it changed the course of college basketball history. One can only imagine what St. John's and NYC college basketball would have been like had his father over-ruled the decision.[/quote]
beast of the east
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We may have lost out on Alcindor, but we did get Tom Weadock.
Class of 72
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I would be happy with a Dan Cornelius, Billy Paultz or even a Bill Philips on this team. LOL!
beast of the east
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I think Berwanger came slightly later. He was a transfer, and his claim to our fame was that he actually shrunk 2 inches from freshman to senior due to a disk problem (6'9 to 6'7). I actually liked his game.
Speaking of short centers, we DID recruit the most celebrated center ever (by the Long Island Press) in Wayne McKoy. His biggest problem (aside from attitude allegedly) was that he stopped growing in the 7th grade. The Press reported his exploits from about age 10.
beast of the east
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Back to the main topic. The Maravich book mentioned initially on this thread was not availalbe for my kindle, so I bought Pistol Pete. GREAT BOOK so far, and it chronicles not only Pete's life, but that of his father, Press Maravich, who was one of the great innovators in transforming basketball to the modern game. Along with being on the roster of an NBA team in its fledgling season, he literally wrote the book on college recruiting, publishing a book that is still the bible on how to recruit and judge talent. The same principals designed by PRess are used today. Great book for any student of the game.
beast of the east
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I need help on this one. I used to play Sunday night pickup ball at OLV in Floral Park, with guys like Hank Cluess, Pete LaMantia, on occasion George Bruns, and once in a while Richie Lyons, and many other ex college stars (I was definitely a scrub in that group). LaMantia once mentioned that he held Maravich to 16 points, or so I thought he had said. Either I had misheard or Maravich scored only 16 against LaMantia, and 37 against everyone else on St Johns.
BTW, LaMantia was the best dead eye shooter I ever saw on a local court, bottom of the net nearly all the time from 30 feet and in, even at age 50 or so. Even at that age, the old guard of players would usually win the FP outdoor summer league against kids 30 years their junior.
BTW, LaMantia was the best dead eye shooter I ever saw on a local court, bottom of the net nearly all the time from 30 feet and in, even at age 50 or so. Even at that age, the old guard of players would usually win the FP outdoor summer league against kids 30 years their junior.