Pat Forde Critique of Local College Hoops

[Class of 72]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

What do I say?
I say that Frannie had a second chance
It was called New Mexico
He screwed up that gig as well
Frannie does a good job at ESPN
At this point of his career, that's where he belongs

No more ESPN retired/fired coaches please! The next coach if Lavin is not renewed needs to be an active coach with a track record and high energy for recruiting. That means no more Frannies, Lavins, and especially no Norm Roberts or Brian Mahoney. It also means we would need to pay more than Lavin's current salary. Names like Josh Pastner and Archie Miller fit that definition. There are only a half dozen coaches that would be available at that level and salary. Danny or Bobby Hurley would be on the next 6 list. I have little confidence our current AD has the smarts to find the right coach but one positive is we will not be hampered by a Vincention priest thinking cheaper is better.

If next year is going to feature the "doomsday roster" like some on here think, then why would any of those coaches come here? They'd be much better off staying where they are.

That is why there are less than 6 candidates worth pursuing. We need a coach who is willing to take the challenge by leaving a successful program and not one who is looking for a "job" or to get back into the business. That is also the reason some rumors have Lavin being extended with bonus incentives without any salary increase and less favorable buy out provisions. It is a take it or leave it scenario IMO.

Not really sure which successful coaches are looking to leave their jobs to come to St. John's. I agree that SJU is marketable in a way, but it isn't stealing a big time coach away from a good program. What they are better off doing is taking a page out of Villanova's book in 2001. Jay Wright was a successful young coach at Hofstra that really started to turn that program around. He had a few hiccups his first few years at Villanova, but now look at them. Guy has a .672 winning percentage there.

That's why Dan Hurley would be my #1 choice. Dan turned around Wagner in 2 years and already has 18 wins in the A10 with Rhode Island. The guy can just flat out coach. He's not the big time name that some fantasize St. John's of getting, but the guy would be a tremendous upgrade for the program.

I am sure Danny would be in the mix if they cannot get Miller, Smart or my favorite du jour Gregg Marshall. Marshall intrigues me because I think he has outgrown his conference and has an interesting tie to St. John's indirectly having been the assistant coach to John Kresse at Charleston. Yes, it would be a stretch because he already earns 1.75 million and has total control at Wichita but he is only 51 and could be poised for a huge challenge in NYC if we offered in the 2.5 million range plus incentives. He is the type of talent that could end up at places like Louisville or North Carolina when their coaches retire or in the Big. If we are to change coach we need to think BIG or not waste time on the search. My opinion is that any talk of extension fell through after the NIT fiasco. Before that Lavin had some leverage but now has none. He is in a take it or leave it situation because he knows $2-3 million could deliver a Gregg Marshall level coach. Depending on how the season ends e would take whatever is offered if he can sign recruits.

 

[L J S A]

At any level?? He coached high school. No disrespect, but that's not at any level. At least Naclerio has St John's ties and is a winner. I'd prefer him to Hurley Sr. who dumped on us for years.

Bob Sr. could get a job at the D1 or pro level tomorrow if he wanted to. But he knows St. Anthony's closes when he leaves.

 

[beast of the east]

“You need the kind of people skills where you can relate to everyone,” Fraschilla said. “From Wall Street bankers to AAU guys to the handlers to the high school coaches – anybody who will influence kids to stay home. Politician sounds like a negative word, but you do need to be able to get along with all kinds of people. Because in New York, all those people are part of the basketball culture.”

And at St. John's, Fraschilla could get along with everyone, except some of his players and all of his bosses.

Good article otherwise. The timing, like the mood of our swings, swings on the pendulum of an away loss. It would be much bolder had he published it had we won, although in that case, public sentiment would have been positive and focused on the probability of an NCAA bid. Then again why should a reporter be more objective than us as fans, excepting for the fact that a journalist should be.

The Hurleys are both having success at lower rung programs, but both may have higher trajectories than a position at St. John's, Rutgers, or SHU. If either came here and had success, I couldn't see either staying very long. I don't know about any of you, but in basketball circles, New Jersey has always had a different identity than NYC and I consider neither NYC guys.

 

[beast of the east]

At any level?? He coached high school. No disrespect, but that's not at any level. At least Naclerio has St John's ties and is a winner. I'd prefer him to Hurley Sr. who dumped on us for years.

Bob Sr. could get a job at the D1 or pro level tomorrow if he wanted to. But he knows St. Anthony's closes when he leaves.

Bob Hurley Sr. will be 68 this year, not exactly an age where someone breaks into big time D1 basketball. Maybe he could be an upstart assistant when Looie comes back to coach.

 

[beast of the east]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

At the time of Fran's departure I had already been told to my face (not on the net, not by a friend of a friend) by prominent and respected coaches and refs in the New York City basketball community that Fran's abusiveness to members of the STJ team had been perceived as in part racist, had been brought by players' families to the attention of the STJ administration and that (I believe false) perception was starting to emerge as an obstacle in recruiting.

I remember the issue with Ty Grant and his Mom, hadn't heard of anything else. Unfortunate perception, but he was still doing a pretty damn good job recruiting when he left so it couldn't have had to much of a negative impact up to that point. Maybe it would have had he stuck around. Who knows? There was always more to that story. .

The so called "real story" behind his firing was that Fraschilla was on his way to an exit before he coached a single game here. Tom Pecora, the current Fordham coach grew up with Ed Manetta in Queens Village and the two are close friends. When Manetta hired Fraschilla, he had wanted Fran to save an assistant's slot for Pecora. Fran instead not only ignored this request, but went ahead and announced his coaching staff before they were approved by Manetta. This reportedly incensed Manetta. Then when Fran tried to renegotiate his St. John's contract after interviewing (while under contract to SJU) for the Arizona State job, St. John's instead used the occasion to fire him. When Fraschilla subsequently publicly bashed the school for his firing, Manetta dredged up the player issues. One was a player's mother who complained to Fraschilla about her son's playing time. Impatient with a parent's meddline, Fran allegedly said to her, "Look at who is playing ahead of him. He's not good enough to play more." The mother went to administration to complain. Then of course there is the pants dropping story that SJU used to further embarrass Fraschilla for shooting off his mouth and for interviewing while under contract.

Yea, Fran won, but he was a pain in the butt for administration and was likely a short timer here even if they didn't fire him.

 

[bamafan]

“You need the kind of people skills where you can relate to everyone,” Fraschilla said. “From Wall Street bankers to AAU guys to the handlers to the high school coaches – anybody who will influence kids to stay home. Politician sounds like a negative word, but you do need to be able to get along with all kinds of people. Because in New York, all those people are part of the basketball culture.”

And at St. John's, Fraschilla could get along with everyone, except some of his players and all of his bosses.

Good article otherwise. The timing, like the mood of our swings, swings on the pendulum of an away loss. It would be much bolder had he published it had we won, although in that case, public sentiment would have been positive and focused on the probability of an NCAA bid. Then again why should a reporter be more objective than us as fans, excepting for the fact that a journalist should be.

The Hurleys are both having success at lower rung programs, but both may have higher trajectories than a position at St. John's, Rutgers, or SHU. If either came here and had success, I couldn't see either staying very long. I don't know about any of you, but in basketball circles, New Jersey has always had a different identity than NYC and I consider neither NYC guys.

NJ seemingly has more and better players than NY lately anyway and to your point that they might leave you are basically saying we don't want too good of a coach. Butler was graced with Stevens who took them to 2 final fours in a row which is the total we have in our history wouldn't we love to have that. Plus that get's the ball rolling for the future and Butler is nationally ranked 2 years after Steven's departure.

 

[oldfan61]

Some twenty pages ago someone asked "what did Fran say"? As a loyal alum for more than 50 years, I will never forget his comment, while he was actively working at StJ, before the "mooning" incident, and before he interviewed for the Arizona job, "St. John's is not my dream job"! From that moment on, he didn't have to do any of those things afterward. He was Dead Man Walking as far as the Alumni was concerned. He could have won the BE and he would be gone, and rightly so.

 

[bamafan]

Some twenty pages ago someone asked "what did Fran say"? As a loyal alum for more than 50 years, I will never forget his comment, while he was actively working at StJ, before the "mooning" incident, and before he interviewed for the Arizona job, "St. John's is not my dream job"! From that moment on, he didn't have to do any of those things afterward. He was Dead Man Walking as far as the Alumni was concerned. He could have won the BE and he would be gone, and rightly so.

He also said he had young sons and wanted to bring them up in a college atmosphere, a college town.