Pat Forde Critique of Local College Hoops

[Anthony Mattia]

Anthony,

I would like to take the opportunity to welcome you to redmen.com.

Thank you for pointing out the more important things i highlighted in my original post. I believe that some posters here get emotional and they cant handle my hard hitting posts so they point out minor details like you eluded to and avoid the "meat and potatoes" of the post.[/quote]

I appreciate the welcome, and I completely understand being emotional when it comes to SJU basketball. I am passionate about this team and they do not always make it easy on us, especially living in Raleigh NC. I can promise you that nothing would make me happier than for our program to be a perennial figure in the polls if for no other reason to quiet the comments of all of the Duke and UNC folks around here.

 

[newsman13]

Lavin has morphed into a mediocrity since his arrival...I'll grant you that, but to bring in brother mediocrities named Hurley would be no improvement whatsoever. I'd rather see Naclerio. At least he's winning championships.

There are NO local saviors on the coaching front. The best players in the country are from outside the New York metro area. It's the same with coaches.

I've given up on this program ever being elite. If it ever is, it won't be because we brought in another gang of suck ups and cronies.

 

[Andrew]

I

Lavin has morphed into a mediocrity since his arrival...I'll grant you that, but to bring in brother mediocrities named Hurley would be no improvement whatsoever. I'd rather see Naclerio. At least he's winning championships.

There are NO local saviors on the coaching front. The best players in the country are from outside the New York metro area. It's the same with coaches.

I've given up on this program ever being elite. If it ever is, it won't be because we brought in another gang of suck ups and cronies.[/quote

Bobby Hurley Sr. is one of the best basketball coaches in the world at any level. How can you dismiss his sons so quickly?

 

[room112]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

What do I say?
I say that Frannie had a second chance
It was called New Mexico
He screwed up that gig as well
Frannie does a good job at ESPN
At this point of his career, that's where he belongs

No more ESPN retired/fired coaches please! The next coach if Lavin is not renewed needs to be an active coach with a track record and high energy for recruiting. That means no more Frannies, Lavins, and especially no Norm Roberts or Brian Mahoney. It also means we would need to pay more than Lavin's current salary. Names like Josh Pastner and Archie Miller fit that definition. There are only a half dozen coaches that would be available at that level and salary. Danny or Bobby Hurley would be on the next 6 list. I have little confidence our current AD has the smarts to find the right coach but one positive is we will not be hampered by a Vincention priest thinking cheaper is better.

If next year is going to feature the "doomsday roster" like some on here think, then why would any of those coaches come here? They'd be much better off staying where they are.

despite what many think, SJU is still an attractive job and with the right coach this can be the marquee program in the Big East.

We will have the "doomsday" roster next season because Steve Lavin failed to do his job and recruit players in the 13, 14 (15 still remains to be seen, but from the looks of it, our prime targets wont be playing here other than Sampson) who would step in and contribute.

It is widely known that Lavin despises coming to campus because it is not in his Manhattan backyard and this buffoon even showed up at campus an hour prior to a game last season. Maybe if Lavin wasnt to busy frequenting all of the trendy hot spots in the city, and he took his job a little more seriously, the roster for next year would be a little different and he wouldnt be unemployed in a few weeks.

His act is old. Steve Lavin is the Brian Williams of the college basketball circuit....he "was there" with John Wooden....so he claims....we all know that is BS.

He refuses to acknowledge the SJU tradition - but he will always reference "UCLA' or that dimwitted imbecile Gean Keady when we have our own HOF coach in Louie right here. We dont need Gene Keady and his stupid looking mamaluke crew cut to bring credibility to our basketball program. It was once here and the longer Lavin & Co. are here, the further away we will be from returning to glory.

One of the all-time SJU greats Marcus Hatten returned for a game at CA earlier this year (and he announced it on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram that he was going) and he isnt even acknowledged. But Lavin will go out of his way to wax poetic about UCLA players who dont even like him like Baron Davis. SJU fans cant identify with Baron Davis, and most of us remember Baron Davis on the Knicks not being able to walk in the playoffs because he was so over the hill. But SJU fans can identify and recognize a great like Marcus Hatten, who despite Lavin's arrogance in ignoring him, will be welcomed at SJU much longer than Steve Lavin.

Bringing in a coach who respects the once great SJU basketball tradition and who will aspire to bring us back to the top of the Big East should be the goal of the athletic department right now. A coach who recognizes that coaching at SJU is a privilege and not a right, an honor and not a "pain in the ass".....Lavin is nothing but a west coast hipster who talks a great game, but is really all bark and no bite. he is completely oblivious to what St. John's basketball is and he makes a mockery of the program with every tweet and interview and quote, which is just another excuse for his mulltiple failures as our coach. The next coach should hit the ground running from day one and work his tail off, unlike Lavin, who took two years off from recruiting....and the next coach should embrace the SJU job and not act like some tourist who has never been to Manhattan before and doesnt wanna leave to come to "disgusting Queens" with the peons.

Mike Vaccaro summed it up best when he said that Lavin is not a very good coach. 4 potential NBA players on this team and we are the second to last team in the NCAA Tournament on ESPN Bracketology this morning....with that kind of talent shouldnt we be in a better position?

If Lavin deserves to be back shouldnt we have more than 1 Big East Tournament wins and ZERO NCAA wins under his regime?

Tremendous article and its about time someone took notice of the fraud with the slicked back hair.

So how exactly do you know Lavin is spending all of his time at trendy hot spots in the city?

My thought exactly. Sounds kind of creepy to me. But then again, to each his or her own.

When you have no rebuttal for brutally honest post you resort to a personal attack.

The information I put here is never fabricated, therefore you should know your role and not question me, just be thankful that i am here to give my fellow SJU fans a good dose of reality in between the other posts here which speak of beating Kansas and Kentucky for recruits and players who cant even spell S-A-T qualifying for us next year.

Personal attack? Did you even read my reply? That was no personal attack.

Again, if your information is never fabricated, you need to cite your sources. Without those, it's just your opinion. Or wishful thinking. It's disingenuous that you complain about personal attacks on you yet you use rumors to personally attack Lavin. Pot, kettle?

And by the way, you never directly answered room112's question. I wish you would.

Yea sure - i am gonna post my sources for the board.

They must have some good stuff in the water in Fairfield CT lol

Why not post your sources? If not, then you are just hiding behind your opinions and rumor mongering.

BTW, the water's pretty good up here. Not quite up to the standards of SoHo Manhattan, but still pretty decent.

I realize I am new here, but I am a little confused. Out of the entire post by AB, why is anyone so concerned about the statement about Lav hitting trendy spots when there was so much more of importance in there? There was talk about finding a coach that would embrace SJU tradition and work his butt off to bring the program back to greatness, and really want to be here, but the focus is on 1 sentence about where Lav spends his off hours...I don't get it.

I just picked the statement in the rant that was most outrageous. If you're going to make outrageous claims about how an individual spends their personal time, it better be factual or else it just seems like gossip.

 

[room112]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

What do I say?
I say that Frannie had a second chance
It was called New Mexico
He screwed up that gig as well
Frannie does a good job at ESPN
At this point of his career, that's where he belongs

No more ESPN retired/fired coaches please! The next coach if Lavin is not renewed needs to be an active coach with a track record and high energy for recruiting. That means no more Frannies, Lavins, and especially no Norm Roberts or Brian Mahoney. It also means we would need to pay more than Lavin's current salary. Names like Josh Pastner and Archie Miller fit that definition. There are only a half dozen coaches that would be available at that level and salary. Danny or Bobby Hurley would be on the next 6 list. I have little confidence our current AD has the smarts to find the right coach but one positive is we will not be hampered by a Vincention priest thinking cheaper is better.

If next year is going to feature the "doomsday roster" like some on here think, then why would any of those coaches come here? They'd be much better off staying where they are.

despite what many think, SJU is still an attractive job and with the right coach this can be the marquee program in the Big East.

We will have the "doomsday" roster next season because Steve Lavin failed to do his job and recruit players in the 13, 14 (15 still remains to be seen, but from the looks of it, our prime targets wont be playing here other than Sampson) who would step in and contribute.

It is widely known that Lavin despises coming to campus because it is not in his Manhattan backyard and this buffoon even showed up at campus an hour prior to a game last season. Maybe if Lavin wasnt to busy frequenting all of the trendy hot spots in the city, and he took his job a little more seriously, the roster for next year would be a little different and he wouldnt be unemployed in a few weeks.

His act is old. Steve Lavin is the Brian Williams of the college basketball circuit....he "was there" with John Wooden....so he claims....we all know that is BS.

He refuses to acknowledge the SJU tradition - but he will always reference "UCLA' or that dimwitted imbecile Gean Keady when we have our own HOF coach in Louie right here. We dont need Gene Keady and his stupid looking mamaluke crew cut to bring credibility to our basketball program. It was once here and the longer Lavin & Co. are here, the further away we will be from returning to glory.

One of the all-time SJU greats Marcus Hatten returned for a game at CA earlier this year (and he announced it on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram that he was going) and he isnt even acknowledged. But Lavin will go out of his way to wax poetic about UCLA players who dont even like him like Baron Davis. SJU fans cant identify with Baron Davis, and most of us remember Baron Davis on the Knicks not being able to walk in the playoffs because he was so over the hill. But SJU fans can identify and recognize a great like Marcus Hatten, who despite Lavin's arrogance in ignoring him, will be welcomed at SJU much longer than Steve Lavin.

Bringing in a coach who respects the once great SJU basketball tradition and who will aspire to bring us back to the top of the Big East should be the goal of the athletic department right now. A coach who recognizes that coaching at SJU is a privilege and not a right, an honor and not a "pain in the ass".....Lavin is nothing but a west coast hipster who talks a great game, but is really all bark and no bite. he is completely oblivious to what St. John's basketball is and he makes a mockery of the program with every tweet and interview and quote, which is just another excuse for his mulltiple failures as our coach. The next coach should hit the ground running from day one and work his tail off, unlike Lavin, who took two years off from recruiting....and the next coach should embrace the SJU job and not act like some tourist who has never been to Manhattan before and doesnt wanna leave to come to "disgusting Queens" with the peons.

Mike Vaccaro summed it up best when he said that Lavin is not a very good coach. 4 potential NBA players on this team and we are the second to last team in the NCAA Tournament on ESPN Bracketology this morning....with that kind of talent shouldnt we be in a better position?

If Lavin deserves to be back shouldnt we have more than 1 Big East Tournament wins and ZERO NCAA wins under his regime?

Tremendous article and its about time someone took notice of the fraud with the slicked back hair.

So how exactly do you know Lavin is spending all of his time at trendy hot spots in the city?

My thought exactly. Sounds kind of creepy to me. But then again, to each his or her own.

When you have no rebuttal for brutally honest post you resort to a personal attack.

The information I put here is never fabricated, therefore you should know your role and not question me, just be thankful that i am here to give my fellow SJU fans a good dose of reality in between the other posts here which speak of beating Kansas and Kentucky for recruits and players who cant even spell S-A-T qualifying for us next year.

Personal attack? Did you even read my reply? That was no personal attack.

Again, if your information is never fabricated, you need to cite your sources. Without those, it's just your opinion. Or wishful thinking. It's disingenuous that you complain about personal attacks on you yet you use rumors to personally attack Lavin. Pot, kettle?

And by the way, you never directly answered room112's question. I wish you would.

Yea sure - i am gonna post my sources for the board.

They must have some good stuff in the water in Fairfield CT lol

Why not post your sources? If not, then you are just hiding behind your opinions and rumor mongering.

BTW, the water's pretty good up here. Not quite up to the standards of SoHo Manhattan, but still pretty decent.

I realize I am new here, but I am a little confused. Out of the entire post by AB, why is anyone so concerned about the statement about Lav hitting trendy spots when there was so much more of importance in there? There was talk about finding a coach that would embrace SJU tradition and work his butt off to bring the program back to greatness, and really want to be here, but the focus is on 1 sentence about where Lav spends his off hours...I don't get it.

Anthony,

I would like to take the opportunity to welcome you to redmen.com.

Thank you for pointing out the more important things i highlighted in my original post. I believe that some posters here get emotional and they cant handle my hard hitting posts so they point out minor details like you eluded to and avoid the "meat and potatoes" of the post.

You haven't added anything to this board that hasn't been repeated thousands of times. Every single day a new Lavin rant like your own pops up. Someone always needs to vent their feelings about how horrendous Lavin is. I'm dissapointed with Lavin too, but I'm extremely tired of reading the same crap being said over and over and over. It dominates every single thread.

 

[Class of 72]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

What do I say?
I say that Frannie had a second chance
It was called New Mexico
He screwed up that gig as well
Frannie does a good job at ESPN
At this point of his career, that's where he belongs

No more ESPN retired/fired coaches please! The next coach if Lavin is not renewed needs to be an active coach with a track record and high energy for recruiting. That means no more Frannies, Lavins, and especially no Norm Roberts or Brian Mahoney. It also means we would need to pay more than Lavin's current salary. Names like Josh Pastner and Archie Miller fit that definition. There are only a half dozen coaches that would be available at that level and salary. Danny or Bobby Hurley would be on the next 6 list. I have little confidence our current AD has the smarts to find the right coach but one positive is we will not be hampered by a Vincention priest thinking cheaper is better.

If next year is going to feature the "doomsday roster" like some on here think, then why would any of those coaches come here? They'd be much better off staying where they are.

despite what many think, SJU is still an attractive job and with the right coach this can be the marquee program in the Big East.

We will have the "doomsday" roster next season because Steve Lavin failed to do his job and recruit players in the 13, 14 (15 still remains to be seen, but from the looks of it, our prime targets wont be playing here other than Sampson) who would step in and contribute.

It is widely known that Lavin despises coming to campus because it is not in his Manhattan backyard and this buffoon even showed up at campus an hour prior to a game last season. Maybe if Lavin wasnt to busy frequenting all of the trendy hot spots in the city, and he took his job a little more seriously, the roster for next year would be a little different and he wouldnt be unemployed in a few weeks.

His act is old. Steve Lavin is the Brian Williams of the college basketball circuit....he "was there" with John Wooden....so he claims....we all know that is BS.

He refuses to acknowledge the SJU tradition - but he will always reference "UCLA' or that dimwitted imbecile Gean Keady when we have our own HOF coach in Louie right here. We dont need Gene Keady and his stupid looking mamaluke crew cut to bring credibility to our basketball program. It was once here and the longer Lavin & Co. are here, the further away we will be from returning to glory.

One of the all-time SJU greats Marcus Hatten returned for a game at CA earlier this year (and he announced it on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram that he was going) and he isnt even acknowledged. But Lavin will go out of his way to wax poetic about UCLA players who dont even like him like Baron Davis. SJU fans cant identify with Baron Davis, and most of us remember Baron Davis on the Knicks not being able to walk in the playoffs because he was so over the hill. But SJU fans can identify and recognize a great like Marcus Hatten, who despite Lavin's arrogance in ignoring him, will be welcomed at SJU much longer than Steve Lavin.

Bringing in a coach who respects the once great SJU basketball tradition and who will aspire to bring us back to the top of the Big East should be the goal of the athletic department right now. A coach who recognizes that coaching at SJU is a privilege and not a right, an honor and not a "pain in the ass".....Lavin is nothing but a west coast hipster who talks a great game, but is really all bark and no bite. he is completely oblivious to what St. John's basketball is and he makes a mockery of the program with every tweet and interview and quote, which is just another excuse for his mulltiple failures as our coach. The next coach should hit the ground running from day one and work his tail off, unlike Lavin, who took two years off from recruiting....and the next coach should embrace the SJU job and not act like some tourist who has never been to Manhattan before and doesnt wanna leave to come to "disgusting Queens" with the peons.

Mike Vaccaro summed it up best when he said that Lavin is not a very good coach. 4 potential NBA players on this team and we are the second to last team in the NCAA Tournament on ESPN Bracketology this morning....with that kind of talent shouldnt we be in a better position?

If Lavin deserves to be back shouldnt we have more than 1 Big East Tournament wins and ZERO NCAA wins under his regime?

Tremendous article and its about time someone took notice of the fraud with the slicked back hair.

So how exactly do you know Lavin is spending all of his time at trendy hot spots in the city?

My thought exactly. Sounds kind of creepy to me. But then again, to each his or her own.

When you have no rebuttal for brutally honest post you resort to a personal attack.

The information I put here is never fabricated, therefore you should know your role and not question me, just be thankful that i am here to give my fellow SJU fans a good dose of reality in between the other posts here which speak of beating Kansas and Kentucky for recruits and players who cant even spell S-A-T qualifying for us next year.

Personal attack? Did you even read my reply? That was no personal attack.

Again, if your information is never fabricated, you need to cite your sources. Without those, it's just your opinion. Or wishful thinking. It's disingenuous that you complain about personal attacks on you yet you use rumors to personally attack Lavin. Pot, kettle?

And by the way, you never directly answered room112's question. I wish you would.

Yea sure - i am gonna post my sources for the board.

They must have some good stuff in the water in Fairfield CT lol

Why not post your sources? If not, then you are just hiding behind your opinions and rumor mongering.

BTW, the water's pretty good up here. Not quite up to the standards of SoHo Manhattan, but still pretty decent.

I don't care where Lavin and Keady peel their shrimp or slice their steaks. I care that he gets off his ass and hits the recruiting trail in between those dinners. Calipari is being nominated to the Hall for his recruiting prowess not his coaching. That special talent has also produced season forfeiture, sanctions and record embellishments not related to his average coaching abilities. Recruiting is the key and Lavin slacking off last year is the major issue here.
As for not being around the Queens campus when not training his players who can blame him? Even the students complain about little to do and head to Manhattan. When Lavin was making Page 6 appearances his first year here no one complained and saw it as positive publicity both for city basketball and St. John's. The Maven, his biggest critic now, was inviting Lavin and Keady to his favorite Italian restaurants and partying with him. They even live blocks apart now in "the city". So take all the SOHO Lavin bashing with a grain of salt. That relationship soured not because of Lavin's basketball record. Trust me on that. My interactions with Lavin occurred on only two occasions involving non basketball matters. I chose not to mix business and pleasure with the coaches nor did I try to become part of an impenetrable inner circle and as a result see the situation from a more neutral point of view. The bottom line is take some of the anti Lavin rumors and gossip with a grain of salt. He will be judged against his peers in the business and what he could produce on the court in the coming years. He needs to prove he can recruit against the $5 million man Billy Donovan who is 13-13 this year. He needs to steal recruits from non-exotic college campus locations in the northeast like Syracuse, Storrs, Pittsburgh and the shit hole that is Morgantown.

 

[simplyred]

Excellent post, 72. Balanced and rational. It also explains some things.

 

[bamafan]

The same 13-13 Billy Donavan owner of 2 National Championships and 4 Final 4 appearances?

 

[TonyinFairfield]

Excellent post, 72. Balanced and rational. It also explains some things.

+ one million!

 

[Class of 72]

The same 13-13 Billy Donavan owner of 2 National Championships and 4 Final 4 appearances?

I would be the last person to downgrade Billy's record. Florida has been paying him an NBA salary to produce. My point was that even great coaches can have horrible years with less drama than we have had. He and Lavin are the same age group and both could be productive in the future but only when they get the players. Those championships came from a very special group of two recruiting classes in 19 years. When we at St. John's were on top of the college basketball scene in the 80's Florida was just a nice school to get a tan in winter. Lon Kruger started the process in the early 90's and after his first 2 losing seasons Billy Donovan completed the goal of turning sleepy Gainesville into a college basketball destination.

 

[monte]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

At the time of Fran's departure I had already been told to my face (not on the net, not by a friend of a friend) by prominent and respected coaches and refs in the New York City basketball community that Fran's abusiveness to members of the STJ team had been perceived as in part racist, had been brought by players' families to the attention of the STJ administration and that (I believe false) perception was starting to emerge as an obstacle in recruiting.

I remember the issue with Ty Grant and his Mom, hadn't heard of anything else. Unfortunate perception, but he was still doing a pretty damn good job recruiting when he left so it couldn't have had to much of a negative impact up to that point. Maybe it would have had he stuck around. Who knows? There was always more to that story. .

 

[austour]

The same 13-13 Billy Donavan owner of 2 National Championships and 4 Final 4 appearances?

I would be the last person to downgrade Billy's record. Florida has been paying him an NBA salary to produce. My point was that even great coaches can have horrible years with less drama than we have had. He and Lavin are the same age group and both could be productive in the future but only when they get the players. Those championships came from a very special group of two recruiting classes in 19 years. When we at St. John's were on top of the college basketball scene in the 80's Florida was just a nice school to get a tan in winter. Lon Kruger started the process in the early 90's and after his first 2 losing seasons Billy Donovan completed the goal of turning sleepy Gainesville into a college basketball destination.

True and he also had to rebuild for two years after the champtionships with a couple NIT appearances but lest we forget this troubled year is coming off 3 Elite 8s and 1 Final Four the last four years.

 

[Class of 72]

The same 13-13 Billy Donavan owner of 2 National Championships and 4 Final 4 appearances?

I would be the last person to downgrade Billy's record. Florida has been paying him an NBA salary to produce. My point was that even great coaches can have horrible years with less drama than we have had. He and Lavin are the same age group and both could be productive in the future but only when they get the players. Those championships came from a very special group of two recruiting classes in 19 years. When we at St. John's were on top of the college basketball scene in the 80's Florida was just a nice school to get a tan in winter. Lon Kruger started the process in the early 90's and after his first 2 losing seasons Billy Donovan completed the goal of turning sleepy Gainesville into a college basketball destination.

True and he also had to rebuild for two years after the champtionships with a couple NIT appearances but lest we forget this troubled year is coming off 3 Elite 8s and 1 Final Four the last four years.

That is what $5 million for a coach will get you.
That did not stop some UF fans from bitching.

 

[fun]

why is anyone so concerned about the statement about Lav hitting trendy spots.

Because they're tired of drinking koolaid and want to know where they can get a nice chianti.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Vacarro said the current squad has 4 potential NBAers, really, wow!

FF back as coach, more likely Rice goes back to coaching Rutgers or Gonzalez to coaching the Hall.

 

[we are sju]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

At the time of Fran's departure I had already been told to my face (not on the net, not by a friend of a friend) by prominent and respected coaches and refs in the New York City basketball community that Fran's abusiveness to members of the STJ team had been perceived as in part racist, had been brought by players' families to the attention of the STJ administration and that (I believe false) perception was starting to emerge as an obstacle in recruiting.

One thing Fran never got credit for was that he def wasn't lacking in ....um confidence by dropping his drawers in front of a bunch of 6-5 to 6-9 guys

 

[doodyny33]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

What do I say?
I say that Frannie had a second chance
It was called New Mexico
He screwed up that gig as well
Frannie does a good job at ESPN
At this point of his career, that's where he belongs

No more ESPN retired/fired coaches please! The next coach if Lavin is not renewed needs to be an active coach with a track record and high energy for recruiting. That means no more Frannies, Lavins, and especially no Norm Roberts or Brian Mahoney. It also means we would need to pay more than Lavin's current salary. Names like Josh Pastner and Archie Miller fit that definition. There are only a half dozen coaches that would be available at that level and salary. Danny or Bobby Hurley would be on the next 6 list. I have little confidence our current AD has the smarts to find the right coach but one positive is we will not be hampered by a Vincention priest thinking cheaper is better.

If next year is going to feature the "doomsday roster" like some on here think, then why would any of those coaches come here? They'd be much better off staying where they are.

That is why there are less than 6 candidates worth pursuing. We need a coach who is willing to take the challenge by leaving a successful program and not one who is looking for a "job" or to get back into the business. That is also the reason some rumors have Lavin being extended with bonus incentives without any salary increase and less favorable buy out provisions. It is a take it or leave it scenario IMO.

Not really sure which successful coaches are looking to leave their jobs to come to St. John's. I agree that SJU is marketable in a way, but it isn't stealing a big time coach away from a good program. What they are better off doing is taking a page out of Villanova's book in 2001. Jay Wright was a successful young coach at Hofstra that really started to turn that program around. He had a few hiccups his first few years at Villanova, but now look at them. Guy has a .672 winning percentage there.

That's why Dan Hurley would be my #1 choice. Dan turned around Wagner in 2 years and already has 18 wins in the A10 with Rhode Island. The guy can just flat out coach. He's not the big time name that some fantasize St. John's of getting, but the guy would be a tremendous upgrade for the program.

 

[redfan259999888]

Fran made some mistakes no doubt, but he was the only coach we've had here since Louie who could navigate the landscape, recruit and coach. Certainly if we were willing to take a chance that Lavin learned from the error of his ways after years in the TV booth, we should be willing to do the same for Fran. And as a Catholic University we should be willing to offer a second chance. I say we put out a feeler to FF and see where it goes. Whatya guys say?

What do I say?
I say that Frannie had a second chance
It was called New Mexico
He screwed up that gig as well
Frannie does a good job at ESPN
At this point of his career, that's where he belongs

No more ESPN retired/fired coaches please! The next coach if Lavin is not renewed needs to be an active coach with a track record and high energy for recruiting. That means no more Frannies, Lavins, and especially no Norm Roberts or Brian Mahoney. It also means we would need to pay more than Lavin's current salary. Names like Josh Pastner and Archie Miller fit that definition. There are only a half dozen coaches that would be available at that level and salary. Danny or Bobby Hurley would be on the next 6 list. I have little confidence our current AD has the smarts to find the right coach but one positive is we will not be hampered by a Vincention priest thinking cheaper is better.

If next year is going to feature the "doomsday roster" like some on here think, then why would any of those coaches come here? They'd be much better off staying where they are.

That is why there are less than 6 candidates worth pursuing. We need a coach who is willing to take the challenge by leaving a successful program and not one who is looking for a "job" or to get back into the business. That is also the reason some rumors have Lavin being extended with bonus incentives without any salary increase and less favorable buy out provisions. It is a take it or leave it scenario IMO.

Not really sure which successful coaches are looking to leave their jobs to come to St. John's. I agree that SJU is marketable in a way, but it isn't stealing a big time coach away from a good program. What they are better off doing is taking a page out of Villanova's book in 2001. Jay Wright was a successful young coach at Hofstra that really started to turn that program around. He had a few hiccups his first few years at Villanova, but now look at them. Guy has a .672 winning percentage there.

That's why Dan Hurley would be my #1 choice. Dan turned around Wagner in 2 years and already has 18 wins in the A10 with Rhode Island. The guy can just flat out coach. He's not the big time name that some fantasize St. John's of getting, but the guy would be a tremendous upgrade for the program.

Uhhh lets see.
Maybe a coach is very confident that he can get SJU back to where it belongs, and wants a challenge. Tell him that he'll get a pass for the first two years, you'll have 5 years to make everything right, oh and let him know that year 4 and beyond that the NIT will never be acceptable.
Finally, maybe he loves NYC and wants to bring a winner in college basketball to it.

Why not come to SJU? Guarantee a good, confident coach could make SJU a winner every year.


"but it isn't stealing a big time coach away from a good program."

Gotta put up the money. I don't expect a big time coach, but if a big time coach came to SJU, we all know what he'd do for SJU.
I'd call 10 top coaches up and see, ever think that 1 out of 10 might surprise and take it.

Do I sound desperate? You're damn straight I am, it's time for SJU to start making major noise as it did long ago. Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

I don't care for "what it would take" for him to come. Just make a list and call em all up.

Just one favor, if a coach that we didn't call, calls out of no where, and says take me. SAY NO TY AND JUST HANG UP.
Jarvis called Louie up and that was a disaster, and now Lavin (not a disaster, but if no nacc this year..........).

The program is in a desperate time.

 

[paultzman]

Not surprising but;

@CNG_Staszewski: Mullin isn't interested in coaching SJU if opportunity presented itself: "That's not something I am thinking of or ever thought of."

@CNG_Staszewski: Mullin continued: "I've been in the NBA for 30 years now. It's not something I think of." #sjubb

@CNG_Staszewski: Mullin on current St. John's team: "They are really talented. On any given night I think they can beat anybody in the country." #sjubb

 

[newsman13]

I

Lavin has morphed into a mediocrity since his arrival...I'll grant you that, but to bring in brother mediocrities named Hurley would be no improvement whatsoever. I'd rather see Naclerio. At least he's winning championships.

There are NO local saviors on the coaching front. The best players in the country are from outside the New York metro area. It's the same with coaches.

I've given up on this program ever being elite. If it ever is, it won't be because we brought in another gang of suck ups and cronies.[/quote

Bobby Hurley Sr. is one of the best basketball coaches in the world at any level. How can you dismiss his sons so quickly?

At any level?? He coached high school. No disrespect, but that's not at any level. At least Naclerio has St John's ties and is a winner. I'd prefer him to Hurley Sr. who dumped on us for years.

Face it. We've had hall of fame coaches here including McGuire, Lapchick, Carnesecca and Keady with no NCAA championships to show for it. I'm convinced it'll never happen...though the chance of hitting the lottery keeps me coming back.