On Fans Continuing To Wear And Flaunt Redmen Gear

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There's a mental exercise some comedians do when they're trying to decide if they should tell a joke that may be viewed as culturally insensitive. Imagine that the audience is only filled with the type of people the joke is about. If it's a Jewish joke, the audience is exclusively Jewish. Same if it's a joke about black people, the physically disabled, women, etc...

If you'd still do the joke and feel the audience would appreciate and laugh at the observation then you have a great joke. Getting people to laugh at themselves is the gold standard. If there's something that's holding you back from wanting to tell the joke it probably means that there's something about the message of the joke that you don't want to admit to yourself.

I would never label or insinuate that anyone on this board is racist. I'm newer than most and it seems like a great group of people that have no intention of offending anyone (except perhaps UConn fans) The fact that people have clearly thought about this issue and are able to articulate their reasoning points to that. I'm just saying that sometimes it's easy to get lost in the weeds and mental gymnastics of a debate that can sometimes be simplified.

Would you be comfortable if the university had the Redmen name and logo up at an event that was only being attended by Native Americans? Do you feel you could defend it in a way where they would understand your POV well enough that they'd feel comfortable with it being displayed? If you say yes, then that's your choice but if the group depicted overwhelmingly tells you they find it to be offensive I don't think you get to say that it isn't. You get to display it but you live with the consequences of people making assumptions about what that means. This is America.
 
[quote="Logen" post=367445]There is a differing opinion and I will offer it; nonsense. PC culture has people looking for reasons to be offended largely where there are none there. It has destroyed the ability for us to laugh at ourselves, to revel in our shared humanities and learn not to take ourselves too seriously. It is THE great contributor, IMO, to the destruction of the grey divide that used to be where people of those differing opinions could reside together, resolve differences or at least understand an opposing point of view and agree to co-exist respecting those differences. NONE of us are better for it.[/quote]

How are a group of old white guys wearing a caricatured Native American Chief on their shirts laughing at themselves exactly?
 
For the "it's not racist crowd." How many of you would walk onto a Native American reservation and call a Native American a redman to his/her face?
 
I love when a group of people get offended on the behalf of another group of people. It’s like a Twitter nerd getting mad about a joke they weren’t in the room for when everyone who was in the room loved it.
 
[quote="FrankInGeneral" post=367494]For the "it's not racist crowd." How many of you would walk onto a Native American reservation and call a Native American a redman to his/her face?[/quote] fair question also fair to ask how many people trash others on twitter that they wouldn’t say to their face
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

So people who want to wear the old logo can't, to appease others? Screw that bs.

I say wear what you want, when you want.
If others don't like it, well then to damn bad.
 
[quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367508][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

So people who want to wear the old logo can't, to appease others? Screw that bs.

I say wear what you want, when you want.
If others don't like it, well then to damn bad.[/quote]

Anyone who has yearned to wear a confederate flag to an sjubb game will be thrilled to hear you stand up for them.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=367506][quote="FrankInGeneral" post=367494]For the "it's not racist crowd." How many of you would walk onto a Native American reservation and call a Native American a redman to his/her face?[/quote] fair question also fair to ask how many people trash others on twitter that they wouldn’t say to their face[/quote]

Hahaha. Right on the money here! Beat me to it.
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367511][quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367508][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

So people who want to wear the old logo can't, to appease others? Screw that bs.

I say wear what you want, when you want.
If others don't like it, well then to damn bad.[/quote]

Anyone who has yearned to wear a confederate flag to an sjubb game will be thrilled to hear you stand up for them.[/quote]

Just so you know I have a Confederate t-shirt with the Confederate on it, and I do wear it.
If people don't like it, then they can try and do something about it.

To me it's not about racism.
To me the American civil war is about two sides, both American who lost thousands.
I wear it out of respect.
It's apart of our history, yeah you can take down the flag and their statues, but you can't erase history.
 
[quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367515][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367511][quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367508][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

So people who want to wear the old logo can't, to appease others? Screw that bs.

I say wear what you want, when you want.
If others don't like it, well then to damn bad.[/quote]

Anyone who has yearned to wear a confederate flag to an sjubb game will be thrilled to hear you stand up for them.[/quote]

Just so you know I have a Confederate t-shirt with the Confederate on it, and I do wear it.
If people don't like it, then they can try and do something about it.

To me it's not about racism.
To me the American civil war is about two sides, both American who lost thousands.
I wear it out of respect.
It's apart of our history, yeah you can take down the flag and their statues, but you can't erase history.[/quote]

The prosecution rests.
 
[quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367515][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367511][quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367508][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

So people who want to wear the old logo can't, to appease others? Screw that bs.

I say wear what you want, when you want.
If others don't like it, well then to damn bad.[/quote]

Anyone who has yearned to wear a confederate flag to an sjubb game will be thrilled to hear you stand up for them.[/quote]

Just so you know I have a Confederate t-shirt with the Confederate on it, and I do wear it.
If people don't like it, then they can try and do something about it.

To me it's not about racism.
To me the American civil war is about two sides, both American who lost thousands.
I wear it out of respect.
It's apart of our history, yeah you can take down the flag and their statues, but you can't erase history.[/quote]

Wow, that escalated quickly...
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367516][quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367515][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367511][quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367508][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

So people who want to wear the old logo can't, to appease others? Screw that bs.

I say wear what you want, when you want.
If others don't like it, well then to damn bad.[/quote]

Anyone who has yearned to wear a confederate flag to an sjubb game will be thrilled to hear you stand up for them.[/quote]

Just so you know I have a Confederate t-shirt with the Confederate on it, and I do wear it.
If people don't like it, then they can try and do something about it.

To me it's not about racism.
To me the American civil war is about two sides, both American who lost thousands.
I wear it out of respect.
It's apart of our history, yeah you can take down the flag and their statues, but you can't erase history.[/quote]

The prosecution rests.[/quote]

I'm glad.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=367506][quote="FrankInGeneral" post=367494]For the "it's not racist crowd." How many of you would walk onto a Native American reservation and call a Native American a redman to his/her face?[/quote] fair question also fair to ask how many people trash others on twitter that they wouldn’t say to their face[/quote]

I'm not that dude. I'll happily tell anyone wearing Redmen gear to their face that I think it's BS and it betrays their ignorance. I wouldn't go so far as to call anyone racist over it, on the interwebs or in person, but it's definitely ignorant. If anyone here would like that said to your face, DM me and I'll gladly give you my section #s at CA or MSG if you'd like it said to your face, not a challenge to fight, just a challenge to prove I'm not an anonymous internet troll.
 
I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended by this kind of stuff. Most actually like names like the Redskins. I'd say let the majority of Native Americans decide rather than a vocal minority

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.
 
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[quote="Adam" post=367521]I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended. Most actually like names like the Redskins.

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.[/quote]

Some people just love teling others what they can do and can't do. In this case what people can wear and can't wear.
Then when people give in they feel all powerful and look for the next thing.
 
[quote="Adam" post=367521]I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended by this kind of stuff. Most actually like names like the Redskins. I'd say let the majority of Native Americans decide rather than a vocal minority

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.[/quote]

That poll on the Redskins has been widely cited as having numerous surveying issues, including disproportionate age numbers and not taking a proper sample from native reservations and the Post has been cited as trying to save the name.

Majority of Native American advocacy groups and their membership condemn stereotypical mascots and logos.
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367525][quote="Adam" post=367521]I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended by this kind of stuff. Most actually like names like the Redskins. I'd say let the majority of Native Americans decide rather than a vocal minority

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.[/quote]

That poll on the Redskins has been widely cited as having numerous surveying issues, including disproportionate age numbers and not taking a proper sample from native reservations and the Post has been cited as trying to save the name.

Majority of Native American advocacy groups and their membership condemn stereotypical mascots and logos.[/quote]

Read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_opinion_polls
 
[quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=367523][quote="Adam" post=367521]I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended. Most actually like names like the Redskins.

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.[/quote]

Some people just love teling others what they can do and can't do. In this case what people can wear and can't wear.
Then when people give in they feel all powerful and look for the next thing.[/quote]

And some people think just because they have the right to express themselves however they choose, that they can and should do so with complete disregards to how it impacts others, and that they should be completely free from criticism for doing so...
 
[quote="Adam" post=367527][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367525][quote="Adam" post=367521]I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended by this kind of stuff. Most actually like names like the Redskins. I'd say let the majority of Native Americans decide rather than a vocal minority

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.[/quote]

That poll on the Redskins has been widely cited as having numerous surveying issues, including disproportionate age numbers and not taking a proper sample from native reservations and the Post has been cited as trying to save the name.

Majority of Native American advocacy groups and their membership condemn stereotypical mascots and logos.[/quote]

Read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_opinion_polls[/quote]

I don't think that proves what you think it proves...

Re the 2004 poll of Native Americans:

"The methods used in this survey and the conclusions that can be drawn from it have been criticized by social scientists,[14] Native American scholars[15] and legal experts[16] for years. In August, 2015, a memo written by senior researchers at the organization responsible for collecting the data for the survey made clear that it should not be taken as an accurate reflection of Native American attitudes at the time.[17]"

Re: the 2016 WaPo Poll:

"Adrienne Keene, Ed.D responded that the poll uses faulty data and methods, such as the continuing problem of self-identification, and the reporting of the results misses the point regarding objections to the name established by social science research and the authentic voices of Native Americans as being about real harms, not individual feelings."

"The Native American Journalists Association (NAJA) issued a statement calling the publication of the poll, and the reporting of its significance, as not only inaccurate and misleading but unethical. "The reporters and editors behind this story must have known that it would be used as justification for the continued use of these harmful, racist mascots. They were either willfully malicious or dangerously naïve in the process and reporting used in this story, and neither is acceptable from any journalistic institution."[26]"


But go off I guess...
 
[quote="FrankInGeneral" post=367529][quote="Adam" post=367527][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367525][quote="Adam" post=367521]I'm too young to remember the Redmen name, but Phavre needs to chill out. He's been posting about this non-stop on Twitter and flooding the hashtag. If a few people want to wear Redmen gear (even custom made) then let them. The only person making a big deal about it is Phavre.

Also, it's just a small percent of Native Americans getting offended by this kind of stuff. Most actually like names like the Redskins. I'd say let the majority of Native Americans decide rather than a vocal minority

This is coming from someone who likes his podcast, but disagree with him here. Don't like seeing him divide the fan base between young and old.[/quote]

That poll on the Redskins has been widely cited as having numerous surveying issues, including disproportionate age numbers and not taking a proper sample from native reservations and the Post has been cited as trying to save the name.

Majority of Native American advocacy groups and their membership condemn stereotypical mascots and logos.[/quote]

Read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_opinion_polls[/quote]

I don't think that proves what you think it proves...

Re the 2004 poll of Native Americans:

"The methods used in this survey and the conclusions that can be drawn from it have been criticized by social scientists,[14] Native American scholars[15] and legal experts[16] for years. In August, 2015, a memo written by senior researchers at the organization responsible for collecting the data for the survey made clear that it should not be taken as an accurate reflection of Native American attitudes at the time.[17]"

Re: the 2016 WaPo Poll:

"Adrienne Keene, Ed.D responded that the poll uses faulty data and methods, such as the continuing problem of self-identification, and the reporting of the results misses the point regarding objections to the name established by social science research and the authentic voices of Native Americans as being about real harms, not individual feelings."

"The Native American Journalists Association (NAJA) issued a statement calling the publication of the poll, and the reporting of its significance, as not only inaccurate and misleading but unethical. "The reporters and editors behind this story must have known that it would be used as justification for the continued use of these harmful, racist mascots. They were either willfully malicious or dangerously naïve in the process and reporting used in this story, and neither is acceptable from any journalistic institution."[26]"


But go off I guess...[/quote]

I read the full section and the data from all the polls seems pretty clear to me. It's advocacy groups getting offended (which makes sense), but most Native Americans as well as most Native Americans fans of the team support the name.

I'll go with the majority of Native Americans here. There have been a lot of polls on this.

Also, we're not even debating whether the school should change the name. That happened decades ago. We're debating whether fans should be allowed to wear Redmen gear. Seems kind of silly and overly PC to me. It's just one white dude getting offended.
 
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