On Fans Continuing To Wear And Flaunt Redmen Gear

Status
Not open for further replies.
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367437]This is a good take from phavrephan. Time for fans to get out of their cave on this issue. Making their own gear and flaunting it at halfcourt is a bit insensitive at best.

https://phavrephan.blogspot.com/2019/12/old-johnnies-fans-say-no-to-getting.html[/quote]

I have no idea who the writer of the article is but he seems
obsessed with someone who was sued and fined for sexually harassing women and then having them fired for complaining. Just saying......
 
There is a differing opinion and I will offer it; nonsense. PC culture has people looking for reasons to be offended largely where there are none there. It has destroyed the ability for us to laugh at ourselves, to revel in our shared humanities and learn not to take ourselves too seriously. It is THE great contributor, IMO, to the destruction of the grey divide that used to be where people of those differing opinions could reside together, resolve differences or at least understand an opposing point of view and agree to co-exist respecting those differences. NONE of us are better for it.
 
I'm of the generation that has strong ties to the old Redmen logo. It has a special place in my heart and takes me back to a very good time in my life.

But I also know that times have changed. I live in a part of Canada with a large Indigenous population and we have a pretty shameful history of how we treated Indigenous people in this country. I have a business partnership with a First Nation and we've talked about this issue. Suffice to say, they were appalled and offended when I showed them the old logo.

So after using the old logo as an avatar since the earliest days of this site and having been too lazy to make the switch, I've finally "retired" it from my personal use. Yes, I know the origins of the name Redmen and can still defend its use, but the caricature of an Indian chief had to go.

Well-done piece by Phavrephan. Finally got me to update my avatar...
 
[quote="Logen" post=367445]There is a differing opinion and I will offer it; nonsense. PC culture has people looking for reasons to be offended largely where there are none there. It has destroyed the ability for us to laugh at ourselves, to revel in our shared humanities and learn not to take ourselves too seriously. It is THE great contributor, IMO, to the destruction of the grey divide that used to be where people of those differing opinions could reside together, resolve differences or at least understand an opposing point of view and agree to co-exist respecting those differences. NONE of us are better for it.[/quote]

If the former SJU mascot name was the St John's Blackmen and the logo was of a person-of-color with enlarged lips, would you feel the same way about fans wearing gear with that name and logo?
 
[quote="firestorm" post=367446]I'm of the generation that has strong ties to the old Redmen logo. It has a special place in my heart and takes me back to a very good time in my life.

But I also know that times have changed. I live in a part of Canada with a large Indigenous population and we have a pretty shameful history of how we treated Indigenous people in this country. I have a business partnership with a First Nation and we've talked about this issue. Suffice to say, they were appalled and offended when I showed them the old logo.

So after using the old logo as an avatar since the earliest days of this site and having been too lazy to make the switch, I've finally "retired" it from my personal use. Yes, I know the origins of the name Redmen and can still defend its use, but the caricature of an Indian chief had to go.

Well-done piece by Phavrephan. Finally got me to update my avatar...[/quote]

There is no doubt of the history regarding “indigenous people” in relation to European settlers. However, one should read up on the inhuman treatment “indigenous people” perpetrated on other “indigenous people.” Many tribes took slavery and torture to an absolute art form against their enemies. This is not to excuse one people’s inhumanity to other people but rather to identify the universality of those actions, mans seemingly genetic flaw to control other people.
There is a passage in the classic book Watership Down in which one of the rabbits speaks to the difference between “animality”, the need to kill to survive, and “humanity” the need to kill to conquer or control; cruelty for cruelties sake if you will. I am not arguing any of this makes it right by any means but I find the cherry picking of one inhumanity to be guilty about when in reality it is a human universal to be disingenuous.
 
I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367448][quote="Logen" post=367445]There is a differing opinion and I will offer it; nonsense. PC culture has people looking for reasons to be offended largely where there are none there. It has destroyed the ability for us to laugh at ourselves, to revel in our shared humanities and learn not to take ourselves too seriously. It is THE great contributor, IMO, to the destruction of the grey divide that used to be where people of those differing opinions could reside together, resolve differences or at least understand an opposing point of view and agree to co-exist respecting those differences. NONE of us are better for it.[/quote]

If the former SJU mascot name was the St John's Blackmen and the logo was of a person-of-color with enlarged lips, would you feel the same way about fans wearing gear with that name and logo?[/quote]

It would depend, you may not want to hear it, but the fact is large noses are one of the prominent features of North American Indians. So if I thought a caricature was done mockingly or to offend I would have a different opinion of it, I do not think the one in question is remotely that.
I am not comparing the relative effect of experiences but I have heard more than my share of degrading comments based on national origin through the years; I never felt the need to play victim. I was also a small very cocky basketball player of some skill and took more than my share of abuse, physically and verbally on and off the courts, literally for decades, from black players. Some I brought on myself, some because I could play and part of the gamesmanship, some was simply because I was white. I had no problem with it, and in hindsight and retrospect, still don’t.
I am certainly not trying to tell you or anyone else how to think, I am merely expressing my view.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Does that mean you're related to Elizabeth Warren?

*starts fight...sneaks back across Cdn border*
 
[quote="firestorm" post=367455][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Does that mean you're related to Elizabeth Warren?

*starts fight...sneaks back across Cdn border*[/quote]

Funny, I was going to ask the same question but you beat me to it; well played.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?
 
[quote="firestorm" post=367455][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Does that mean you're related to Elizabeth Warren?

*starts fight...sneaks back across Cdn border*[/quote]

I should get one of those Ancestry dna because I definitely have more indian blood than her.

Intersting mjmaherjr tidbit. On my mom's side her fathers side way down the road I'm related to the Wright brothers. My mom is a Wright. Ironically my mom actually both my parents hate to fly. I fly a lot but hate it. My brother is a pilot and had wanted to be a pilot since he could walk.

Also on my moms side my grandma was a Harrison. Somehow down the line I'm related to the US President with the shortest term ever Harrison who served like a month before he died of Typhoid or something
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367437]This is a good take from phavrephan. Time for fans to get out of their cave on this issue. Making their own gear and flaunting it at halfcourt is a bit insensitive at best.

https://phavrephan.blogspot.com/2019/12/old-johnnies-fans-say-no-to-getting.html[/quote]

That guy is a clown.

Regardless, America is a great place because everyone is allowed to have their own, distinguishable views and beliefs. PC culture has begun to divide this country. After-all, I always thought the main pillar of liberalism was tolerance? However, today, if you do not share the same views as the far-left you are then considered an enemy or bad person. It's quite comical!

If someone on here can point me to where I can purchase some of the Redmen gear, as I grew up a Redmen fan, was raised to be a Redmen fan, and owned one of those Redmen starter jackets, I'd greatly appreciate it. By the way, I'm 29 years old, a "millennial" and have been dragged through this awful new culture of fads and instant gratification, and most of all, intolerance. I'm not afraid to wear any of this gear, or speak my mind, and if it offends someone, tough.
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote] Literally dont care. When I went to school they were the redmen. I like my hat reminds me of the fun time I had in college rooting for my team
 
Last edited:
I like Redmen, don't like the racist logo, and wonder which poster in this thread is funded by Putin to further divide us.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=367472]I like Redmen, don't like the racist logo, and wonder which poster in this thread is funded by Putin to further divide us.[/quote]

Racism truly in the eye of the beholder.
 
These are just 2 of my hats not the ones I normally wear to games but literally nothing racist about them [attachment=1188]DDE77D24-3C9E-4052-9236-84B1F2B05B5A.jpeg[/attachment] [attachment=1189]66D3D161-D5F3-4BFB-8CEB-D202D701CD4D.jpeg[/attachment]
 
[quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

If notre dame was Called the fighting Irish and the mascot was a stereotypical angry little Irishman would you wear notre dame gear around Irish people?
 
[quote="Storm Tracker" post=367483][quote="TRabinowitz" post=367459][quote="mjmaherjr" post=367451]I still have a redmen hat and I'm not going to stop wearing it. Plus my great great great grandfather on my mothers side was full blood indian[/quote]

Again, I turn to this: if they were the St. John's Blackmen with a logo stereotyping people of color, would you feel the same way?[/quote]

If notre dame was Called the fighting Irish and the mascot was a stereotypical angry little Irishman would you wear notre dame gear around Irish people?[/quote]

Funny, I thought the logo was a type of Fairy called a Leprechaun, not the ridiculous characterization of an actual group of people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top