Old Dominion, Fri. Nov. 25, 9:30pm, AXS/570AM-B4A

[MarkRedman]

It's hard to make significant changes when you are playing 3 days in a row

http://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/2016/11/25/13750658/st-johns-final-fall-old-dominion-63-55

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'm half full.

never would have guessed that

 

[mjmaherjr]

It's obvious that we are not going to get any offense from our big men, however they were outrebounded by Taylor (17) boards to Yakwe (3) , Sima (4) and Owens (6).
Is it me or does the opposition get open three pointers while we struggle to get our three pointers off?.

when I watch our big guys down low they get out of position going for blocks, they also get caught too far underneath the basket to get rebounds and part of being a good rebounder is shot anticipation and if you see someone taking a long shot chances are if he misses it's going to be a bit of a longer rebound and we don't anticipate that and that's also why our guards get more rebounds. If you look at any of the really good rebounders in the past they had really good shot anticipation and having a good idea of where the ball might go if it was a missed shot. Our instincts aren't good right now

 

[paultzman]

I think Logen's oft expressed statement re Wright & Coach K struggling several years at Duke &Nova is more than fair. To me the difference is they were early in their career and devoted many years to building a sustainable foundation. Not to inspire further angst, but I never felt Chris would be here more than 5 or 6 years. If that transpires, I hope he hands the reins of a solid program to someone capable of continuing success. Hopefully my gut is wrong, which is often the case. In fairness to Chris, this is a tough and frustrating job out of the gate.

 

[mjmaherjr]

It's obvious that we are not going to get any offense from our big men, however they were outrebounded by Taylor (17) boards to Yakwe (3) , Sima (4) and Owens (6).
Is it me or does the opposition get open three pointers while we struggle to get our three pointers off?.

Yeah because we don't pass the ball or move it around. (Every interview in game or post game Mullin keeps saying we got too move the ball). We never drive and kick.

what I dont understand is we did that beautifully the first 2 games and the beginning of the 3rd and then it literally just disappeared like it never happened

 

[MarkRedman]

It's obvious that we are not going to get any offense from our big men, however they were outrebounded by Taylor (17) boards to Yakwe (3) , Sima (4) and Owens (6).
Is it me or does the opposition get open three pointers while we struggle to get our three pointers off?.

Yeah because we don't pass the ball or move it around. (Every interview in game or post game Mullin keeps saying we got too move the ball). We never drive and kick.

what I dont understand is we did that beautifully the first 2 games and the beginning of the 3rd and then it literally just disappeared like it never happened

All you have to do is look at who the opponents were
We looked great against B-C and Binghamton
Not so much against "real" opponents

http://nypost.com/2016/11/26/st-johns-finishes-winless-in-tournament-at-the-bahamas/

 

[RedStormNC]

I think Logen's oft expressed statement re Wright & Coach K struggling several years at Duke &Nova is more than fair. To me the difference is they were early in their career and devoted many years to building a sustainable foundation. Not to inspire further angst, but I never felt Chris would be here more than 5 or 6 years. If that transpires, I hope he hands the reins of a solid program to someone capable of continuing success. Hopefully my gut is wrong, which is often the case. In fairness to Chris, this is a tough and frustrating job out of the gate.

Paultz - I always remember Mullin's introductory quote. I see him here for his contract period and not more. That means the clock is ticking for him to build program up by year 3 (4 latest) to have 2-3 solid years depending if he is committed for 5-6 years (and stays that long by choice or President/AD decision)

I think he'll get this right but we're still lacking the right players. It's headed right but Matt A needs to land some more big body killers beyond Zach Brown question mark and Clark Jr.

Naz Reid would be nice and I guess we'll be pissed if we don't land him which is highly possible.

 The quote :


On getting the program back to consecutive NCAA Tournaments: 

"We are going to get this program back to those days and have it consistent. It's going to be a process. It's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take patience and a lot of hard work. I want to get it to where Coach [Carnesecca] had it and then hand it off to someone else so we have consistency." 
 

 

[redfan99d]

It's obvious that we are not going to get any offense from our big men, however they were outrebounded by Taylor (17) boards to Yakwe (3) , Sima (4) and Owens (6).
Is it me or does the opposition get open three pointers while we struggle to get our three pointers off?.

Yeah because we don't pass the ball or move it around. (Every interview in game or post game Mullin keeps saying we got too move the ball). We never drive and kick.

what I dont understand is we did that beautifully the first 2 games and the beginning of the 3rd and then it literally just disappeared like it never happened

All you have to do is look at who the opponents were
We looked great against B-C and Binghamton
Not so much against "real" opponents

http://nypost.com/2016/11/26/st-johns-finishes-winless-in-tournament-at-the-bahamas/

After the first 2 games the other schools had video tape on us. Double team Lovett & Ponds which makes us get into a set play way too late in the shot clock. We become super predictable and force a bad shot or an out of control dribble drive. How many times in the last 3 games have we watched Lovett try to split a double team? You can get away with that against inferior athletes. I wouldn't mind seeing Lovett off the ball at times. Ponds & Rico are capable ball handlers.

 

[fun]

Old Dominion recap:http://www.bigeastboards.com/

 

[Knight]

Post game quotes

http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/112616aab.html

FWIW, it does seem that Mullin sees the same problems we do (this is going by his quotes from all 3 nights). That's half the battle, IMO.

Now, it's just a matter of correcting them, if they can in fact be corrected.

Reminds me of that commercial where the guy looking into the mouth of a patient in a dental chair announces that he is a dental "monitor" not a dentist. We need a dentist to correct the current state of affairs.

 

[usguard]

It's obvious that we are not going to get any offense from our big men, however they were outrebounded by Taylor (17) boards to Yakwe (3) , Sima (4) and Owens (6).
Is it me or does the opposition get open three pointers while we struggle to get our three pointers off?.

Yeah because we don't pass the ball or move it around. (Every interview in game or post game Mullin keeps saying we got too move the ball). We never drive and kick.

what I dont understand is we did that beautifully the first 2 games and the beginning of the 3rd and then it literally just disappeared like it never happened

All you have to do is look at who the opponents were
We looked great against B-C and Binghamton
Not so much against "real" opponents

http://nypost.com/2016/11/26/st-johns-finishes-winless-in-tournament-at-the-bahamas/

After the first 2 games the other schools had video tape on us. Double team Lovett & Ponds which makes us get into a set play way too late in the shot clock. We become super predictable and force a bad shot or an out of control dribble drive. How many times in the last 3 games have we watched Lovett try to split a double team? You can get away with that against inferior athletes. I wouldn't mind seeing Lovett off the ball at times. Ponds & Rico are capable ball handlers.

Just wondering when does coach and staff take the heat and accountability for the win/loss record ,game plan and performance and their ability to instruct,teach and most important improvement in each player. HAVE NOT SEEN THIS YET. ALTHOUGH WE Have better and more talented players we are seeing similar results from last yr not withstanding closer scores Does not fair well for us when Big East comp begins I know the challenges staff has had
so I AM WILLING TO GO THRU another season but next yr must give us great results or my patients will be curtailed

 

[Section3]

Old Dominion recap:http://www.bigeastboards.com/

You hit it on the head with the assessment that the guys take the green light to mean mandatory shot. We'll need a full roster of 4 and 5 start recruits that can shoot and/or finish to make that work long term Otherwise, kids will have to learn their role and recognize shades of green.

That said, crazy talk re: Mullin stepping down or taking back seat by some posters.

 

[Knight]

Surprised by Mullin's comments on D.
"We played good defense. They run some really nice sets and make you play late into the shot clock so I thought we did a really good job, [but] we just couldn't get the ball. It was amazing. I've never seen so many balls pop out of guy's hands and hit guys in the head...The last seven we played a little better...They shot 30 percent, we shot 34 [percent]. We had nine assists and 15 turnovers. It was ugly. For the most part, if we play defense like that we're going to be good. Those offensive rebounds deflated everything."

 

[RedStormNC]

Mullin is saying all the right things about the young team (unfortunately two years in a row) needing to learn to play together.

However I agree with us guard that Mullin should also step up and say he needs to also hold himself and staff equally accountable and also need to look in mirror and re-commit themselves.

A team is not just the guys on the court.

I beleive he''ll get them there but the frustration in the interim is painful.

 

[ghostzapper]

As passionate fans it is hard not to react with emotion or judge hastily. It has been a quarter century since the last season Louie led our program. Since that time we have been led by Brian Mahoney, Fran Fraschilla, Mike Jarvis, Kevin Clark, Norm Roberts, Steve Lavin and now Chris Mullin. Under each coach I have attended games and rooted like hell for our team. To varying degrees, every regime has inspired some moments of hope (even under the brief interim tenure of Clark) but we have never come close to the sustained success or stability we had under Louie.

When Coach Carnesecca retired many thought, myself included, we might be better off and go to an even higher plane. This has not come to fruition. For me, one thing is for sure, the viewpoint of Coach Carnesecca's remarkable career has been further elevated in the wake of the struggles of his successors.

Chris is trying to do something very difficult and patience can be hard to muster when hopes have been dashed multiple times before. That being said I will continue to root and look for the hope.

The talent base is way better than last year. The recruiting going forward looks solid. Our core base of talent is young and should improve greatly this season and beyond. Teams often gel and improve over the course of a season. It is still November!!!

We may not have a great season this year but the story has not been written yet. There are things to feel good about despite our four game losing streak.

Like most of us dedicated fans the losses for me are hard to take and I am passionate and emotional on each possession of each game. That being said it is early in the season and very early in the careers of this group of players. Regardless of the results I will cheer the team and realize they are climbing their upside and the best is likely to come.

Don't lose faith!!!!

 

[Ray Morgan]

It was pretty obvious that both teams were out of it physically and mentally.. Just look at how many shots fell short. ODU was wretched themselves, and would have lost to have of Division 1 schools with that performance. It's early, but it is starting to look like we have a 2 man team, and a lot of support players either lacking in high division 1 talent or not ready to show it off yet.

 

[OLV72]

As passionate fans is it hard not to react with emotion or judge hastily. It has been a quarter century since the last season Louie led our program. Since that time we have been led by Brian Mahoney, Fran Fraschilla, Mike Jarvis, Kevin Clark, Norm Roberts, Steve Lavin and now Chris Mullin. Under each coach I have attended games and rooted like hell for our team. To varying degrees, every regime has has inspired some moments of hope (even under the brief interim tenure of Clark) but we have never come close to the sustained successor or stability we had under Louie.

When Coach Carnesecca retired many thought, myself included, we might be better off and go to an even higher plane. This has not come to fruition. For me one thing is for sure the viewpoint of Coach Carnesecca's remarkable career has been further elevated in the wake of the struggles of his successors.

Chris is trying to do something very difficult and patience can be hard to muster when hopes have been dashed multiple times before. That being said I will continue to root and look for the hope.

The talent base is way better than last year. The recruiting going forward looks solid. Our core base of talent is young and should improve greatly this season and going forward. Teams often gel and improve over the course of a season. It is still November!!!

We may not have a great season this year but the story has not been written yet. There are things to feel good about despite our four game losing streak.

Like most of us dedicated fans the losses for me are hard to take and I am passionate and emotional on each possession of each game. That being said it is early in the season and very early in the careers of this group of players. Regardless of the results I will cheer the team and realize they are climbing their upside and the best is likely to come.

Don't lose faith!!!!

Thanks Zapper. The best post of the season.

 

[usguard]

WILL NEVER LOSE FAITH but realize my of us on this board are up in yrs and we would like to see a winning team
before we go to green pastures

 

[ipd200]

I think Logen's oft expressed statement re Wright & Coach K struggling several years at Duke &Nova is more than fair. To me the difference is they were early in their career and devoted many years to building a sustainable foundation. Not to inspire further angst, but I never felt Chris would be here more than 5 or 6 years. If that transpires, I hope he hands the reins of a solid program to someone capable of continuing success. Hopefully my gut is wrong, which is often the case. In fairness to Chris, this is a tough and frustrating job out of the gate.

Paultz - I always remember Mullin's introductory quote. I see him here for his contract period and not more. That means the clock is ticking for him to build program up by year 3 (4 latest) to have 2-3 solid years depending if he is committed for 5-6 years (and stays that long by choice or President/AD decision)

I think he'll get this right but we're still lacking the right players. It's headed right but Matt A needs to land some more big body killers beyond Zach Brown question mark and Clark Jr.

Naz Reid would be nice and I guess we'll be pissed if we don't land him which is highly possible.

 The quote :


On getting the program back to consecutive NCAA Tournaments: 

"We are going to get this program back to those days and have it consistent. It's going to be a process. It's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take patience and a lot of hard work. I want to get it to where Coach [Carnesecca] had it and then hand it off to someone else so we have consistency." 
 

This doesn't make any sense to me - what's he going to do after 5 or 6 years? Is he hoping to coach in the NBA? Otherwise he is going to coach 5 or 6 years then retire - doesn't make sense when it is at least a 2 or 3 year rebuilding effort. If his plan was only to stay around 5 years I think we should of went a different route. You need a coach to stay longer then that otherwise we are going to be looking for a new coach 3 or 4 years from now?

 

[Class of 72]

I think Logen's oft expressed statement re Wright & Coach K struggling several years at Duke &Nova is more than fair. To me the difference is they were early in their career and devoted many years to building a sustainable foundation. Not to inspire further angst, but I never felt Chris would be here more than 5 or 6 years. If that transpires, I hope he hands the reins of a solid program to someone capable of continuing success. Hopefully my gut is wrong, which is often the case. In fairness to Chris, this is a tough and frustrating job out of the gate.

Paultz - I always remember Mullin's introductory quote. I see him here for his contract period and not more. That means the clock is ticking for him to build program up by year 3 (4 latest) to have 2-3 solid years depending if he is committed for 5-6 years (and stays that long by choice or President/AD decision)

I think he'll get this right but we're still lacking the right players. It's headed right but Matt A needs to land some more big body killers beyond Zach Brown question mark and Clark Jr.

Naz Reid would be nice and I guess we'll be pissed if we don't land him which is highly possible.

 The quote :


On getting the program back to consecutive NCAA Tournaments: 

"We are going to get this program back to those days and have it consistent. It's going to be a process. It's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take patience and a lot of hard work. I want to get it to where Coach [Carnesecca] had it and then hand it off to someone else so we have consistency." 
 

This doesn't make any sense to me - what's he going to do after 5 or 6 years? Is he hoping to coach in the NBA? Otherwise he is going to coach 5 or 6 years then retire - doesn't make sense when it is at least a 2 or 3 year rebuilding effort. If his plan was only to stay around 5 years I think we should of went a different route. You need a coach to stay longer then that otherwise we are going to be looking for a new coach 3 or 4 years from now?

At St. John's 6 years IS a long range plan!
It will be interesting to see if Mullin can come close to duplicating the much despised Steve Lavin in the 4 years he actually coached at St.John's. It seems almost unimaginable but Steve had 3 twenty plus winning seasons and 4 post season appearances in those 4 years (2 NCAA and 2 NIT's ). Many made light of his cancer and even his dad's passing but those things seemingly had an affect on his ability to coach and recruit. His aloofness in recruiting local players and in closing the deal on his biggest targets were his ultimate downfall.
We all know Chris Mullin was a huge gamble and that a younger more experienced coach such as Danny Hurley would have made more sense, especially with recruiting local kids. But Mullin provides a big marquee name to entice upper tier kids and I think after year three with some coaching experience under his belt he will be able to be evaluated on par with more experienced coaches. If, in years 3, 4, 5 and 6 we are an NCAA team then he will have succeeded and surpassed Steve Lavin, another marquee name. If he has only Lavinesque success then we may have hired a reluctant bride with a prenuptial not worth the investment.
If, like Steve Lavin, he starts to lose interest in recruiting hard and fails to sign his top targets, then the two Vincention schools may be better off in the A10, or a lesser conference. If you can make it in New York you can make it anywhere but, like hiring an AD, we seem to lack commitment and common sense, then just focus on creating a better academic institution.