Niagara, Sat., Nov. 26, 2p, FS-2

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Well for those who are worrying about the quality of our Out of Conference schedule the road game against Iowa State on December 4th has gotten a little more prestige value with Iowa State just taking down number one North Carolina 70-65 to raise their record to an undefeated 5 and 0
 
From what I watched tonight, Iowa State is a very disciplined team that plays solid defense and controlled the tempo of the game. In short, everything St Johns is not. I’m just hoping for a competitive game which would be a good lead in to conference play. Surely Florida State a 17 point loser to Sienna won’t help much.
 
Hey jack williams. Don’t even bother with that guy. Just tune him out like I have. So much better. Believe me.
 
Johnny Rapper said:
I woukd much rather play a killer non conference schedule then the joke of the one they play now. If, as one poster said, the OOC schedule is supposed to get you ready for conference play, do you think that playing these terrible teams is preparing anyone for conference play? And whose to say we would lose those tough games. If you recall Anderson’s first year with a far weaker team, he beat two top 20 teams in the pre league season.

I think that the teams they played so far certainly won’t prepare them for a team like Iowa State which may be a reality check for this team. Hopefully we can play with them.
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Just to play devils advocate here Johnny, that first year where we played multiple top 20 ooc teams, instead of being well prepared for the tough BE slate, we started the conference season 1-6.
 
Amaseinyourface said:
Just to play devils advocate here Johnny, that first year where we played multiple top 20 ooc teams, instead of being well prepared for the tough BE slate, we started the conference season 1-6.
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Well obviously those top 20 teams were not as good as advertised and the Big East was pretty good.
 
Johnny Rapper said:
From what I watched tonight, Iowa State is a very disciplined team that plays solid defense and controlled the tempo of the game. In short, everything St Johns is not. I’m just hoping for a competitive game which would be a good lead in to conference play. Surely Florida State a 17 point loser to Sienna won’t help much.
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How about, if we beat Iowa State, you agree to be positive for at least one week.
 
Johnny Rapper said:
From what I watched tonight, Iowa State is a very disciplined team that plays solid defense and controlled the tempo of the game. In short, everything St Johns is not. I’m just hoping for a competitive game which would be a good lead in to conference play. Surely Florida State a 17 point loser to Sienna won’t help much.
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Do you mean in the first half? Or you’ve watched Iowa State control pace and defend well for 40 minutes? If that’s what you mean I think that’s valid. St John’s has yet to defend well and control pace for an entire game.

However the past 3 games in the 2nd half they’ve defended extremely well and very obviously controlled the pace of all three. We won because we dictated a faster, more frenetic pace. I totally get and agree that we want this team playing more complete games but to act like the qualities you’re speaking to have been non-existent is disconnected from what we’ve all actually watched. There’s plenty of ways to legitimately criticize this team that aren’t hyperbolic.
 
Queens_Ball said:
Do you mean in the first half? Or you’ve watched Iowa State control pace and defend well for 40 minutes? If that’s what you mean I think that’s valid. St John’s has yet to defend well and control pace for an entire game.

However the past 3 games in the 2nd half they’ve defended extremely well and very obviously controlled the pace of all three. We won because we dictated a faster, more frenetic pace. I totally get and agree that we want this team playing more complete games but to act like the qualities you’re speaking to have been non-existent is disconnected from what we’ve all actually watched. There’s plenty of ways to legitimately criticize this team that aren’t hyperbolic.
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We are a different beast than UNC. Much more unconventional. It’ll be a fun game.

Either they will adjust to full throttle or we will adjust to whatever they throw at us. Not rocket science.

They really don’t possess any challenge that we can’t deal with. And we have upperclassmen as well. It’s gonna be a good time for us Johnnies
 
BigRed2 said:
We are a different beast than UNC. Much more unconventional. It’ll be a fun game.

Either they will adjust to full throttle or we will adjust to whatever they throw at us. Not rocket science.

They really don’t possess any challenge that we can’t deal with. And we have upperclassmen as well. It’s gonna be a good time for us Johnnies
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Yeah I’m happy that Iowa State seems like it could be a bigger opportunity for us. I’m certainly not taking them for granted. A true road game against any Big 12 opponent is probably somewhat of an uphill climb for us.

Iowa State’s two big wins have come against a depleted Villanova team that is collapsing in on itself and a UNC team that has been sleepwalking and looked awful getting by cupcakes early on. Anyone who thinks people have gripes about St Johns should see what that fanbase is saying about their preseason #1 team. Iowa State may be a very difficult game but certainly one St Johns has a decent chance to win.
 
Queens_Ball said:
Do you mean in the first half? Or you’ve watched Iowa State control pace and defend well for 40 minutes? If that’s what you mean I think that’s valid. St John’s has yet to defend well and control pace for an entire game.

However the past 3 games in the 2nd half they’ve defended extremely well and very obviously controlled the pace of all three. We won because we dictated a faster, more frenetic pace. I totally get and agree that we want this team playing more complete games but to act like the qualities you’re speaking to have been non-existent is disconnected from what we’ve all actually watched. There’s plenty of ways to legitimately criticize this team that aren’t hyperbolic.
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If a team is performing well only half a game, the team is not performing well period. Most fans on this site overlook the horrendous first halves cause the team has won the games which was clearly attributed to the low level of competition faced to date. Everyone was elated with a win over the Cuse who at best, with their many freshman is one of Boeheim weaker teams in quite some time. . Given the fact that the entire team (except for the two frosh) has at least a year playing college hoops at this level, I would have expected more consistent performances especially against an inexperienced team like the Cuse.

Where you see a frenetic pace, which defensively has been very good at times, offensively looks undisciplined with a minimal half court offense, unless David Joes throwing up 30 footers is ok with you.

What I really find funny is that many on this site state my posts are negative where as I see them as warranted criticisms of a team, while
6-0, still has much to work on before the Big East wars begin. As an actual fan, I have high expectations for this team and don’t get giddy over wins against poor opposition. Can they put it together, sure they can as the talent and bball IQ for much of the team is there. Will they? Only time will tell.
 
Both Iowa State and Johnnies have talent. Iowa State is not in a different ‘league’ than SJ. They will be favored because they are home, If this were in MSG, we’re favored.
 
Section3 said:
Both Iowa State and Johnnies have talent. Iowa State is not in a different ‘league’ than SJ. They will be favored because they are home, If this were in MSG, we’re favored.
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Wait, so you think that at MSG we would be favored over a team that just beat the number one team in the country on a neutral site when the Johnnies struggled with Syracuse and Temple? I don’t think the oddsmakers would agree with that.
 
Johnny Rapper said:
If a team is performing well only half a game, the team is not performing well period. Most fans on this site overlook the horrendous first halves cause the team has won the games which was clearly attributed to the low level of competition faced to date. Everyone was elated with a win over the Cuse who at best, with their many freshman is one of Boeheim weaker teams in quite some time. . Given the fact that the entire team (except for the two frosh) has at least a year playing college hoops at this level, I would have expected more consistent performances especially against an inexperienced team like the Cuse.
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Only two freshmen from Syracuse received significant time against the Johnnies (Judah Mintz and Chris Bell), while a third frosh received very minimal time (Quadir Copeland). The remainder of their roster that logged significant minutes were three seniors and two sophomores.

To say Syracuse is an experienced team falls flat if you ask me.
 
MJDinkins said:
Only two freshmen from Syracuse received significant time against the Johnnies (Judah Mintz and Chris Bell), while a third frosh received very minimal time (Quadir Copeland). The remainder of their roster that logged significant minutes were three seniors and two sophomores.

To say Syracuse is an experienced team falls flat if you ask me.
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Agree, they are not experienced. The Johnnies are far more experienced. How many minutes did Storr and King get in the game?
 
Johnny Rapper said:
Agree, they are not experienced. The Johnnies are far more experienced. How many minutes did Storr and King get in the game?
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So what if the Johnnies are more experienced. I can name hundreds of scenarios where the "more experienced" team has lost games versus the least experienced, if that was your aim. If so, it's a fallacy.

Lastly, the minutes received or not received by Storr and King is irrelevant.
 
Knight said:
Niagara?
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Judah Mintz was a highly ranked and heavily recruited Player . Syracuse getting him was no fluke . Boeheim had a opening for a Starting PG and knew that Mintz could fit right into that Role . Likely he promised him the starting job and lots of PT right away . Boeheim and SU still have some allure , not as much as when they were in the BE but , it still has clout . They haven’t been awful for 2 Decades . And , Boeheim still finds a way to get into the Dance and more often than not , gets a few games in the Win column . Sure. Wusu and Posh calmed Mintz down in the 2 nd half but , he’s the real deal .
 
Johnny Rapper said:
If a team is performing well only half a game, the team is not performing well period. Most fans on this site overlook the horrendous first halves cause the team has won the games which was clearly attributed to the low level of competition faced to date. Everyone was elated with a win over the Cuse who at best, with their many freshman is one of Boeheim weaker teams in quite some time. . Given the fact that the entire team (except for the two frosh) has at least a year playing college hoops at this level, I would have expected more consistent performances especially against an inexperienced team like the Cuse.

Where you see a frenetic pace, which defensively has been very good at times, offensively looks undisciplined with a minimal half court offense, unless David Joes throwing up 30 footers is ok with you.

What I really find funny is that many on this site state my posts are negative where as I see them as warranted criticisms of a team, while
6-0, still has much to work on before the Big East wars begin. As an actual fan, I have high expectations for this team and don’t get giddy over wins against poor opposition. Can they put it together, sure they can as the talent and bball IQ for much of the team is there. Will they? Only time will tell.
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“If a team is performing well only half a game, the team is not performing well period” is one of those phrases that only sounds like it makes sense if you say it quickly but is actually completely nonsensical. In addition to contradicting yourself within the quote (if you perform well for half of a game believe it or not you ARE performing well at times…period) you’re ignoring 50% of the team’s performance.

Games are not 20 minutes long. YOU actually need that to be true for your point to have any validity at all. Because you don’t just believe a win is a win, right? That’s okay I don’t always either but saying the 2nd half is garbage & meaningless no matter what happens just because the first half is subpar is once again hyperbolic & honestly just illogical. The game is won at the end of the 2nd half, not the first. You’d rather they be 0-6 than 6-0? Of course not.

And nobody is criticizing you for pointing out the obvious trend that their first halves have been poor. I’m pretty sure literally every single poster here is dissapointed in their first halves, realizes it’s an issue and thinks there will be problems against better teams if it isn’t improved. Who that you’ve interacted with here has denied that? Honestly has anyone? You’re rubbing people wrong because it’s ALL you talk about. Not that you need to be a basketball savant to understand this but the posters here are all smart enough to understand playing 2 good halves of basketball is preferable to just 1. Most of us just choose to observe and discuss the team as a whole. If you’re style of rooting and fandom is to only focus on the negatives unless your team is dominating that’s your right but have the self awareness to realize (and not act shocked) that it may not be most peoples cup of tea.
 
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