New Transfer Rule Discussion

[MakingPlays]

https://twitter.com/pr0ia/status/1377347685292859405?s=21

Of course it is.  You give 18-22 year old college kids a one time no responsibility pass, you think they aren't going to take it?  Heck, you probably got some guys transferring simply because they heard the girls were hotter at another school, they can just up and leave and not even inform their coach, just put their name in the portal, and wait for all the schools to give them their best pitch.  How some people think that's a good idea for college basketball is beyond me.  

 

[MarkRedman]

I'm 100% with you, Moose. When the smoke clears, I will root my heart out for the 13 guys that suit up to play for St John's next year, as I have done for the past 55 or so seasons.

 

[MakingPlays]

I’ve always been a big proponent of it. The covid year is making it seem worse. Give it two years for others to see you can’t just leave on a whim. More often that not it will backfire. Then the rule will be used more appropriately for the serious situations when a player needs to leave. 

So Moose what's your thoughts on the portal now that St. John's has lost over half it's roster to it, there's over 74 teams with with 5 or more players in it, and already over 1,000 in the portal total when the season isn't even over yet?  Is it that many coaches that are just bs'ing kids and lying to them?  Because I know CMA isn't, he's about as straight of a shooter as they come.





 

I feel the same this one year isn't changing my mind.  Kids should get 1 free transfer.  

But I think there should be rules and I think Indy needs to wake up and make it official and try to put some parameters around it but let's not hold our breath.  If this is what it takes for Indy to wake up and use that lump 3 feet above their ass then its temporarily worth it.

Hope someone takes a number of how many Sr's are transferring.  They should be done dusted and gone.  That I think is a sizable number and all them transferring does is kick the can further down the road and make the problem bigger.

No seniors have entered the portal from St. John's.  That's 7 transfers of juniors or younger.

It's alright to admit you were wrong and it's a dumb rule.  No real college basketball fan thinks this is a good idea.  I'm friends with people from different fan bases and almost all of them are pissed at them losing key players, very prominent college coaches think it's stupid, almost every college bball analyst I've seen thinks it's a bad idea.  Your team that you root for just lost 7 players from a 4th place Big East finish where their coach won COY and known as a player's coach, and he's losing players left and right over this rule and you're still like "I like that idea."  LOL are you serious? 


 

This has nothing to do with admitting I'm wrong about something.  It's the first year.  I don't make rash decisions about something.

You're a smart fella.  The fact I bring up Sr's flooding the portal has nothing to do with SJU not having any Sr's that did.  And for the record there are 2 Sr's from SJU who very well might choose to transfer.  When you take a whole class across 350 plus schools and say here's another chance to play that floods the market.  Do the math.  Funny how nobody cares about the soon to be college freshman who are likely going to play less now. 

Did you expect coaches to come out and say its a good idea?  If you did I don't know what to tell you.  That's the least surprising thing here.  Come back to me next spring.  If there is another 1500 in the portal which would be twice the normal number for a 2nd straight year then maybe we have a problem.

I root for the school.  And if kids dont want to be here good luck thanks for your time.  I'll root for the 13 kids who wear SJU jersey next year.

You keep saying this is a 1 year thing, the numbers since they started the transfer portal have been going up each and every year, you never mention that.  You think the numbers are going to dramatically decline with the portal and a permanent 1 time free transfer rule?  There's no evidence of that, if you're going off of the history of the portal.  The numbers moving forward may be smaller than this year, which will probably be in the 1500's, according to experts, but it's still going to be a huge problem and there will still be well over a 1,000 transfers each year, best case scenario.  When coaches like Frank Martin, Tom Izzo, Tubby Smith, Coach K, Roy Williams, etc all are expressing concerns about it, I think they know the game well enough to know it's an issue, and you just brushing it off as "I don't feel bad for coaches having to work harder" is just simply ignoring an obvious issue.

 

[section10]

13 guys?
there will be many schools with 7 scholarship players.
there will be many schools with 17 scholarship players.
yes i know 13 is the max, but you have seniors that are allowed another year.

 

[Moose]

I’ve always been a big proponent of it. The covid year is making it seem worse. Give it two years for others to see you can’t just leave on a whim. More often that not it will backfire. Then the rule will be used more appropriately for the serious situations when a player needs to leave. 

So Moose what's your thoughts on the portal now that St. John's has lost over half it's roster to it, there's over 74 teams with with 5 or more players in it, and already over 1,000 in the portal total when the season isn't even over yet?  Is it that many coaches that are just bs'ing kids and lying to them?  Because I know CMA isn't, he's about as straight of a shooter as they come.






 

I feel the same this one year isn't changing my mind.  Kids should get 1 free transfer.  

But I think there should be rules and I think Indy needs to wake up and make it official and try to put some parameters around it but let's not hold our breath.  If this is what it takes for Indy to wake up and use that lump 3 feet above their ass then its temporarily worth it.

Hope someone takes a number of how many Sr's are transferring.  They should be done dusted and gone.  That I think is a sizable number and all them transferring does is kick the can further down the road and make the problem bigger.

No seniors have entered the portal from St. John's.  That's 7 transfers of juniors or younger.

It's alright to admit you were wrong and it's a dumb rule.  No real college basketball fan thinks this is a good idea.  I'm friends with people from different fan bases and almost all of them are pissed at them losing key players, very prominent college coaches think it's stupid, almost every college bball analyst I've seen thinks it's a bad idea.  Your team that you root for just lost 7 players from a 4th place Big East finish where their coach won COY and known as a player's coach, and he's losing players left and right over this rule and you're still like "I like that idea."  LOL are you serious? 



 

This has nothing to do with admitting I'm wrong about something.  It's the first year.  I don't make rash decisions about something.

You're a smart fella.  The fact I bring up Sr's flooding the portal has nothing to do with SJU not having any Sr's that did.  And for the record there are 2 Sr's from SJU who very well might choose to transfer.  When you take a whole class across 350 plus schools and say here's another chance to play that floods the market.  Do the math.  Funny how nobody cares about the soon to be college freshman who are likely going to play less now. 

Did you expect coaches to come out and say its a good idea?  If you did I don't know what to tell you.  That's the least surprising thing here.  Come back to me next spring.  If there is another 1500 in the portal which would be twice the normal number for a 2nd straight year then maybe we have a problem.

I root for the school.  And if kids dont want to be here good luck thanks for your time.  I'll root for the 13 kids who wear SJU jersey next year.

You keep saying this is a 1 year thing, the numbers since they started the transfer portal have been going up each and every year, you never mention that.  You think the numbers are going to dramatically decline with the portal and a permanent 1 time free transfer rule?  There's no evidence of that, if you're going off of the history of the portal.  The numbers moving forward may be smaller than this year, which will probably be in the 1500's, according to experts, but it's still going to be a huge problem and there will still be well over a 1,000 transfers each year, best case scenario.  When coaches like Frank Martin, Tom Izzo, Tubby Smith, Coach K, Roy Williams, etc all are expressing concerns about it, I think they know the game well enough to know it's an issue, and you just brushing it off as "I don't feel bad for coaches having to work harder" is just simply ignoring an obvious issue.

Its funny to see all the sides to this.  You are firmly on the coaches side.  Many posters here are firmly for the kids.  There were approx 800 plus kids transferring before this year.  And prior to this year no rhyme or reason for who got a waiver and who didn't.  If this is what it takes to get rules in place then its temporary pain.  You're relatively new year.  For years as an SJU fan we had too many instances of waiting for waivers that never came or came far too late in a season to make an impact.  Who left middle of the year, who left deep into the summer.  It was frustrating.  There were countless discussions where we all discussed rules and parameters.  I think there should be rules.  But since we root for a sport controlled by idiots there currently are none.  I hope they see this and make changes.  I won't be upset if they do because I think the end result will still give the kids freedom of movement but place some restrictions and safeguards in place.

We all want the game to be better.  You say it isn't now.  I say it hasn't for years.  So if this is what it takes I'm all for it.  It will change how coaches coach and build teams, it will change how kids select schools.  That's my hope.

 

[MCNPA]

I’ll add something else here, but with the free and one transfer nonsense, it has opened the door for a lot of kids to get paid.  Don’t discount this, as we know it happens when coming out of Hs.  Lots of kids being courted by bigger schools, have been scouted already, probably tampered with and will get paid by the money schools.  It’s adds to the lure of the transfer market and incentive to use the “hall pass”.  

 

[RedStormNC]

Of the kids transferring...

what % do you think is player decided/initiated vs. coach softly pushing out the door ?

 

 

[MakingPlays]

I’ve always been a big proponent of it. The covid year is making it seem worse. Give it two years for others to see you can’t just leave on a whim. More often that not it will backfire. Then the rule will be used more appropriately for the serious situations when a player needs to leave. 

So Moose what's your thoughts on the portal now that St. John's has lost over half it's roster to it, there's over 74 teams with with 5 or more players in it, and already over 1,000 in the portal total when the season isn't even over yet?  Is it that many coaches that are just bs'ing kids and lying to them?  Because I know CMA isn't, he's about as straight of a shooter as they come.







 

I feel the same this one year isn't changing my mind.  Kids should get 1 free transfer.  

But I think there should be rules and I think Indy needs to wake up and make it official and try to put some parameters around it but let's not hold our breath.  If this is what it takes for Indy to wake up and use that lump 3 feet above their ass then its temporarily worth it.

Hope someone takes a number of how many Sr's are transferring.  They should be done dusted and gone.  That I think is a sizable number and all them transferring does is kick the can further down the road and make the problem bigger.

No seniors have entered the portal from St. John's.  That's 7 transfers of juniors or younger.

It's alright to admit you were wrong and it's a dumb rule.  No real college basketball fan thinks this is a good idea.  I'm friends with people from different fan bases and almost all of them are pissed at them losing key players, very prominent college coaches think it's stupid, almost every college bball analyst I've seen thinks it's a bad idea.  Your team that you root for just lost 7 players from a 4th place Big East finish where their coach won COY and known as a player's coach, and he's losing players left and right over this rule and you're still like "I like that idea."  LOL are you serious? 




 

This has nothing to do with admitting I'm wrong about something.  It's the first year.  I don't make rash decisions about something.

You're a smart fella.  The fact I bring up Sr's flooding the portal has nothing to do with SJU not having any Sr's that did.  And for the record there are 2 Sr's from SJU who very well might choose to transfer.  When you take a whole class across 350 plus schools and say here's another chance to play that floods the market.  Do the math.  Funny how nobody cares about the soon to be college freshman who are likely going to play less now. 

Did you expect coaches to come out and say its a good idea?  If you did I don't know what to tell you.  That's the least surprising thing here.  Come back to me next spring.  If there is another 1500 in the portal which would be twice the normal number for a 2nd straight year then maybe we have a problem.

I root for the school.  And if kids dont want to be here good luck thanks for your time.  I'll root for the 13 kids who wear SJU jersey next year.

You keep saying this is a 1 year thing, the numbers since they started the transfer portal have been going up each and every year, you never mention that.  You think the numbers are going to dramatically decline with the portal and a permanent 1 time free transfer rule?  There's no evidence of that, if you're going off of the history of the portal.  The numbers moving forward may be smaller than this year, which will probably be in the 1500's, according to experts, but it's still going to be a huge problem and there will still be well over a 1,000 transfers each year, best case scenario.  When coaches like Frank Martin, Tom Izzo, Tubby Smith, Coach K, Roy Williams, etc all are expressing concerns about it, I think they know the game well enough to know it's an issue, and you just brushing it off as "I don't feel bad for coaches having to work harder" is just simply ignoring an obvious issue.

Its funny to see all the sides to this.  You are firmly on the coaches side.  Many posters here are firmly for the kids.  There were approx 800 plus kids transferring before this year.  And prior to this year no rhyme or reason for who got a waiver and who didn't.  If this is what it takes to get rules in place then its temporary pain.  You're relatively new year.  For years as an SJU fan we had too many instances of waiting for waivers that never came or came far too late in a season to make an impact.  Who left middle of the year, who left deep into the summer.  It was frustrating.  There were countless discussions where we all discussed rules and parameters.  I think there should be rules.  But since we root for a sport controlled by idiots there currently are none.  I hope they see this and make changes.  I won't be upset if they do because I think the end result will still give the kids freedom of movement but place some restrictions and safeguards in place.

We all want the game to be better.  You say it isn't now.  I say it hasn't for years.  So if this is what it takes I'm all for it.  It will change how coaches coach and build teams, it will change how kids select schools.  That's my hope.

I wouldn't say I'm on the coaches side, I'm more on the side of stability.  If you couldn't tell by now, I absolutely love college basketball.  I'm a Hogs fan, and because of the CMA connection I'm a St. John's fan, those are the two teams I watch every single game, but outside of those two schools, I still probably watch 100+ college basketball games throughout the season of other teams, I goto Vegas every year for march madness, most fun time of the year for me. 

I love seeing teams develop, I love watching coaches that have a specific system that's unique to them, you don't see stuff like that in the NBA, and with this new rule it just really hurts the quality and the stability of the game.  I like to get to know the players and watch their growth, I can probably right now of the top of my head name the best players on every Big East and SEC team, with this new rule it basically eliminates that, and takes some of the fun out of following college basketball.  You take that out of the college basketball game, and it basically turns into the NBA with less skill.

 

[RedStormNC]

For those not good with all the movement, can start following your local/favorite D2/D3 program.... lol
 

 

[Moose]

Plays- Did CMA have turnover at Arkansas?  With 800 plus kids leaving each year the past few years its a bigger societal issues where first sign of adversity, first sign of not starting, first sign of another school sniffing around and kids leave.  They don't stick around 4 years a lot.  If we get 3 years out of a kid (Hi Julian) I'd be ecstatic.

Someone here said Amar was our last 4 year player.  That's crazy and sad all rolled into one.

 

[Moose]

This is exactly it.

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Brazille/status/1377380840506675201

 

[MakingPlays]

Plays- Did CMA have turnover at Arkansas?  With 800 plus kids leaving each year the past few years its a bigger societal issues where first sign of adversity, first sign of not starting, first sign of another school sniffing around and kids leave.  They don't stick around 4 years a lot.  If we get 3 years out of a kid (Hi Julian) I'd be ecstatic.

Someone here said Amar was our last 4 year player.  That's crazy and sad all rolled into one.

We had this discussion on an Arkansas board, I think the year before he left somebody did his average and it averaged out to like 2.5 transfers per year, basically 3 transfers per year.  Most of those transfers though were end of the bench guys, CMA was always good at returning his core, I can only think of one core player that was within his top 5-6 guys that transferred out, and that was JaCorey Williams, but he got in trouble and suspended and basically had no choice but to transfer because he was going to be suspended for a good portion of his senior year.

 

[fordham96]

Leave the board for a day and everything goes to  sh**...LOL

 

[bamafan]

Since many of you say like Seinfeld said you root for the laundry (or uniform) I have a proposed solution. Do away with all basketball scholarships. Let the spoiled brats eat cake. When I was a freshman at St. J's I thought the team was like high school-whoever happened to be at the school tried out for the team. 

 

[GardenCity62]

Next December will be another chaotic period for college basketball. About one thousand of the fifteen hundred who transfer over the next few months and who were all promised thirty five minutes and twenty shots a game will realize they are getting the same minutes and shots that they got at the school they left will now look around to transfer again.
 

 

[room112]

I feel like we've reached out the point where if a kid is not a starter by his sophomore year, he will probably be looking to leave. That's just the way things have evolved. Especially in the social media and instant gratification era. The free transfer rule makes it even easier. Coaches are going to have to evolve the way they do things. 

 

[Jack Williams]

The new rule is basically you can’t get attached to any of these players. Except maybe Posh 

 

[SJU85]

Leave the board for a day and everything goes to  sh**...LOL

  [attachment=2047]Gilda Radner.jpg.png[/attachment]

 

[monte]

Why should kids be held to LOIs?  Let's face it, these kids committed to programs with an expectation that they'd be playing with a certain group of players and a certain level of team. Granted, it may mean more playing time for a freshman, but IMO if you're gonna make everyone else a FA, why not high school seniors as well? That seems fair to me. 

 

[MainMan]

The new rule is basically you can’t get attached to any of these players. Except maybe Posh 

 

dont.... jinx.... it.