NCAA & Power Conferences Lobbying Juggernaut

[Alumni Hall]

Another interesting twist to this whole NIL mess is let’s say player A started his career at Butler, he injures himself in spring practice and needs surgery for an ACL repair. He then enters the portal and transfers to DePaul. Only Butlers policy has a one year payable policy. He is fully expecting his new schools insurance to cover him, but nope, DePauls insurance company says you didn’t get injured on our watch…so DePaul,does the surgery and bills Butler’s insurer. If he needs more surgery, which happens and the one year policy expires, who,is responsible?
I questioned this scenario to my former Big East trainer peers and they said no one has even thought one out yet. And they know it’s gonna happen soon!

 

[Rocket]

My guess is they'll become independent contractors and will be treated as such. It's mostly how it works with actors, reporters and, dare I say, professional landscapers.

Unlikely scenario as no employer is obligated to provide benefits to independent contractors nor can they unionize in-house as non-employees. They would have obtain the legal power to force all players to be union dues paying members which, for extremely short term careers as "college athletes " may be unenforceable.

 

[Rocket]

Another interesting twist to this whole NIL mess is let’s say player A started his career at Butler, he injures himself in spring practice and needs surgery for an ACL repair. He then enters the portal and transfers to DePaul. Only Butlers policy has a one year payable policy. He is fully expecting his new schools insurance to cover him, but nope, DePauls insurance company says you didn’t get injured on our watch…so DePaul,does the surgery and bills Butler’s insurer. If he needs more surgery, which happens and the one year policy expires, who,is responsible?
I questioned this scenario to my former Big East trainer peers and they said no one has even thought one out yet. And they know it’s gonna happen soon!

Under Obama Care, $100,000 independent contractors can afford their own insurance and it covers the athlete regardless of place or employer.
In private industry, private non-company contractors are not eligible for health insurance. If they are officially considered "professional independent" contractors, colleges can be sued by the general school population for providing benefits that they are excluded from (health insurance, automatic free tuition, etc.).

 

[newsman13]

Unlikely scenario as no employer is obligated to provide benefits to independent contractors nor can they unionize in-house as non-employees. They would have obtain the legal power to force all players to be union dues paying members which, for extremely short term careers as "college athletes " may be unenforceable.

Employers don't have to provide benefits to independent contractors just agreed upon money...and do you really see players unionizing?.

 

[Rocket]

Employers don't have to provide benefits to independent contractors just agreed upon money...and do you really see players unionizing?.

I don't see "college players", under the current total free agency model, having the collective power to unionize across all college conferences. College competition has a built-in shelf life. No league or conference "owns" a player's right to participate.

An 18 year old basketball player must " theoretically" meet the academic participation requirements and not just a sports participation eligibility. That is a symbiotic relationship requiring mutual responsibilities in order to qualify as a "working partner".
A college basketball player can disqualify himself from competition by simply failing to maintain the minimum GPA as is required by all students.
No matter the compensation level of that player, his $1 million contract could become null and void by failing to attend classes and take competitive exams.

It also begs the question of whether millionaire workers have a right to collective bargaining.

• Before the NBA union was created…average NBA salary = $8,000
• For the 2022-2023 season… average NBA salary = $9.37M
• The NBA minimum salary is now over $1 million

This is uniquely an American sports management model where nothing is ever enough and mainstream media sports conglomerates like ESPN, FOX sports, CBS, NBC and ABC provide almost all the revenue profits to teams.
Unions were originally established to protect the truly oppressive employment practices which were common pre-WW2.
I have ZERO sympathy for professional athletes, who, after just 10 years of service, are guaranteed pensions, e.g. A 62-year-old who played 10 or more years in the NBA will earn over $215,000 annually from his pension. This is on top of the millions they earned in salaries and endorsements.

 

[monte]

I don't see "college players", under the current total free agency model, having the collective power to unionize across all college conferences. College competition has a built-in shelf life. No league or conference "owns" a player's right to participate.

An 18 year old basketball player must " theoretically" meet the academic participation requirements and not just a sports participation eligibility. That is a symbiotic relationship requiring mutual responsibilities in order to qualify as a "working partner".
A college basketball player can disqualify himself from competition by simply failing to maintain the minimum GPA as is required by all students.
No matter the compensation level of that player, his $1 million contract could become null and void by failing to attend classes and take competitive exams.

It also begs the question of whether millionaire workers have a right to collective bargaining.

• Before the NBA union was created…average NBA salary = $8,000
• For the 2022-2023 season… average NBA salary = $9.37M
• The NBA minimum salary is now over $1 million

This is uniquely an American sports management model where nothing is ever enough and mainstream media sports conglomerates like ESPN, FOX sports, CBS, NBC and ABC provide almost all the revenue profits to teams.
Unions were originally established to protect the truly oppressive employment practices which were common pre-WW2.
I have ZERO sympathy for professional athletes, who, after just 10 years of service, are guaranteed pensions, e.g. A 62-year-old who played 10 or more years in the NBA will earn over $215,000 annually from his pension. This is on top of the millions they earned in salaries and endorsements.

It has a built-in shelf life for now. And how long before the academic requirements get eliminated all together?

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

https://nypost.com/college-football/

• nts

Breaking down what’s next for NCAA after groundbreaking $2.8 billion settlement​

On Thursday, a landmark settlement worth nearly $2.8 billion was reached by the NCAA and its five power conferences leagues that will set in motion a groundbreaking revenue-sharing model in which college athletes will be directly paid by schools for the first time, likely starting in the fall of 2025.

The Post’s Zach Braziller breaks down the end of the governing body’s amateur model and what to expect moving forward in this Q&A:

Q: Wait, so college athletes get paid now? Why did the NCAA agree to this?
A: It had no choice. It was facing major losses in three antitrust lawsuits that would’ve exceeded the nearly $2.8 billion settlement. And, yes, it is expected — starting in the fall of 2025 — athletes can be paid directly by their schools through revenue-sharing in the form of roughly $20 million a year. That figure could increase over time, dependent on more lucrative television deals being signed. As for the close to $2.8 billion, that will go to approximately 14,000 claims of former and current players dating back to 2016. ESPN reported it will be divided up among athletes based on a formula created by a sports economist.

Q: What still has to happen before this becomes official?

Charlie Baker’s NCAA will look entirely different by 2025. USA TODAY Sports

EXPLORE MORE​

NCAA’s $2.8 billion settlement marks ‘professionalization’ of college sports​

Title IX question hangs over NCAA’s $2.8 billion settlement​

Notre Dame implores Congress to save ‘great American institution’ after ‘undesirable’ $2.8B NCAA settlement​

A: California-based judge Claudia Wilken has to approve the settlement. There could be challenges, but it is expected to happen in the coming months.

Q: What is the next domino to fall?
A: Keep an eye on Congress. The NCAA is hoping for a federal law that affords it a limited antitrust exemption to create player compensation and transfer rules and a declaration that college athletes are not employees. Otherwise, the governing body will remain powerless in this new professionalized model. There is some optimism that the settlement created some goodwill with elected officials.

SEE ALSO​

ANALYSIS

NCAA’s $2.8 billion settlement marks ‘professionalization’ of college sports​

Q: How will schools distribute the revenue?
A: That is up to schools, based on the settlement terms. It is each institution’s choice how they choose to use the $20 million or so, how much of that allotment it chooses to pay players, which players it pays and how much is given to the individuals. It does not have to be spread out evenly, though Title IX was not included in the agreement. Title IX is a federal law that requires institutions to offer equal opportunities for male and female athletes. That’s another issue that could be settled by the courts.

Q: What does this mean for the lower-revenue sports?
A: It depends on the school, but common sense would suggest that football and basketball will be prioritized since they net the most money. A high-ranking, power-conference executive predicted “carnage” for Olympic sports.

Q: What does this mean for the future of athletic programs at smaller schools?
A: It will further distance the haves from the have-nots, the conferences that have lucrative television deals from the conferences that do not. The smaller leagues already have been used as somewhat of a feeder system for the bigger ones due to NIL, and this only will increase that chasm.

The NCAA could further distance the haves from the have-notes in the future. AP

Q: How does this impact NIL payouts?
A: NIL isn’t going anywhere. Collectives could be less of a factor moving forward, though. The settlement includes a reporting mechanism that will require athletes to report third-party NIL deals that are not part of the revenue-sharing profits he or she receives. The deal has to be “fair market value,” which will be defined on a later date. But this could also be a way for schools and/or boosters to go above the $20 million they can pay players. There is talk of a new enforcement arm being set up to monitor the NIL market once the settlement goes into effect. Keeping collectives could be a way for schools to circumvent the revenue-sharing cap that would give them an edge in recruiting.

Q: Where is the money for the settlement coming from?
A: NCAA reserve funds and insurance will pay for some of the settlement, and though the five power conferences were the ones named specifically in the lawsuit, the other NCAA member schools also will be part of the payout. The NCAA reportedly will pick up $1.1 billion of the tab, with the power five conferences paying approximately $1.65 billion and the other 27 Division I conferences paying $990 million over the course of the next decade through profits distributed from the NCAA Tournament in men’s basketball.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Jason Gay / Wall Street Journal

Behold the Great Surrender

For many years, big-time college sports stubbornly .

Their product couldn’t be categorized as pure business—it was something precious, singular, not to be questioned or disrupted. As the outrageous money flowed, they asked us to look at the billion-dollar television contracts and eight-figure coaches flying private and not trust our own eyes. They wanted us to believe they were engaged in something more elevated than good old-fashioned capitalism.

Spoiler alert: This is a business, and always has been. You saw it, the players saw it, the courts started seeing it, and finally, the NCAA and its five biggest conferences (the “Power Five”) have come around, backs to the wall, a string of cases designed to acknowledge and reward the obvious:



Big-time college sports are big-time professional stuff.

Which of course they are. You don’t pay a $2.8 billion settlement if it’s not about the money. College sports may have been buffered by nostalgia and tradition, and defenders had explanations to justify an unbalanced system—without us, there’d be no water polo!—but they couldn’t stop the public from smelling a moldy myth.

How do you hide all that money? The NCAA kept pointing to its monster and calling it a mouse. But the courts turned skeptical—the Supreme Court showed bipartisan skepticism, from justices who can’t agree on the day of the week—and the entire toothpick tower looked ready to collapse. And still might.





Now, with disaster looming, there’s an attempt to get on the level. Don’t ask me how it’s supposed to all shake out—I don’t think the NCAA itself knows. There’s a monetary settlement with past athletes, and a proposal here to share annual revenue with schools and let them dispense payments to athletes, with $20 million a reported figure. There’s no clarity on how that money should be distributed, if it needs to adhere to the equality standards of Title IX, and what happens if athletes win the right to collectively bargain and renegotiate.

The NCAA is settling here because it feared losing everything in court, and there’s still a gargantuan business to protect. They arrived here with their Power Five co-defendants, aka the “haves,” and this is a point of contention, too, as schools in smaller conferences worry who is really going to pay the price. The NCAA would like this settlement to be seen as proof of its good faith, inspiring Congress to strengthen antitrust protections, but there remain athletes battling to be recognized as employees, which could throw the whole landscape into a blender again.


It’s messy, because of course it’s messy. How do you level such a warped system? There will be casualties in nonrevenue sports, and likely women’s sports, but let’s not act like those parties hadn’t already been trampled over by conference realignments fruitful for football but a travel nightmare for everyone else. The same voices now agonizing about the end of college sports were the ones signing up to send the softball team across the country.

As for public reaction, it’s possible you’ve hit your limit. If NIL reform didn’t do it, and transfer portal madness didn’t do it, if geography-indifferent conference realignment didn’t do it, maybe this is the moment that sends you over the edge. It’s worth pointing out that there’s been no major fan exodus; interest remains robust. College sports have been lucky here. Despite an astonishing lack of foresight from the people in charge, the golden goose still flaps its tired wings.

This settlement is not foresight—it’s a crumbling behemoth’s humbled bet to stay in the game. It might feel like the aesthetic end of college sports, and it’s going to get chaotic, but the powers in charge are the ones who pushed the system to the brink. This is a business, their business, and at last they’re saying it out loud. The Great Surrender is here.

 

[SJU stalwart]

These last two articles are great posts. Thanks for them, as they distill the issues for us.

As for St John’s, I suspect they will continue to support most of the Big East sports. Plus fencing. They do fairly well with them and not just baseball and basketball, if you look at standings. Particularly with an infusion of money from NCAA. Is it 20 million per school or 20 million per conference? Per school would be amazing.

On the other hand, St John’s may decide to down grade some sports to club level — sports like swimming and diving. But I don’t recollect that they (we) are producing Olympians, nor will we.

The bigger issue — other than the toll the NCAA is putting on the Big East and .other non football conferences — is what will happen to parity within the Big East. But that’s happening now with NIL, unfortunately or fortunately, however you slice it. I also think the toll might be modified somewhat, since it is inherently unfair. Although everything is unfair to the small conferences without TV contracts. For St John’s at least, there seems ways to preserve Title VIIII.

So we’ll have to see. We’re not going to suffer as many will. The question is everyone else.

 

[RedStormNC]

These last two articles are great posts. Thanks for them, as they distill the issues for us.

As for St John’s, I suspect they will continue to support most of the Big East sports. Plus fencing. They do fairly well with them and not just baseball and basketball, if you look at standings. Particularly with an infusion of money from NCAA. Is it 20 million per school or 20 million per conference? Per school would be amazing.

On the other hand, St John’s may decide to down grade some sports to club level — sports like swimming and diving. But I don’t recollect that they (we) are producing Olympians, nor will we.

The bigger issue — other than the toll the NCAA is putting on the Big East and .other non football conferences — is what will happen to parity within the Big East. But that’s happening now with NIL, unfortunately or fortunately, however you slice it. I also think the toll might be modified somewhat, since it is inherently unfair. Although everything is unfair to the small conferences without TV contracts. For St John’s at least, there seems ways to preserve Title VIIII.

So we’ll have to see. We’re not going to suffer as many will. The question is everyone else.

What infusion of money from NCAA?

 

[SJU stalwart]

Maybe I misread but the WSJ article says that schools, under the agreement, will get 20 million. That’s why I asked .if that was per conference or per school. It must be per conference and the money would come from NCAA tournament.

Again, the article didn’t clarify whether it was all conferences or just those in tournament. But all conferences do enter tournament.and if it’s 20 million in total, they should be ashamed.

What infusion of money from NCAA?

 

[SJU stalwart]

Actually, it must be all schools in total, which is a pittance per school. But they are talking about some 20 million cap per conference. I take it back — these articles are still confusing. But my opinion stands vis a vis St. John’s.

Maybe I misread but the WSJ article says that schools, under the agreement, will get 20 million. That’s why I asked .if that was per conference or per school. It must be per conference and the money would come from NCAA tournament.

Again, the article didn’t clarify whether it was all conferences or just those in tournament. But all conferences do enter tournament.and if it’s 20 million in total, they should be ashamed.

 

[Alumni Hall]

These last two articles are great posts. Thanks for them, as they distill the issues for us.

As for St John’s, I suspect they will continue to support most of the Big East sports. Plus fencing. They do fairly well with them and not just baseball and basketball, if you look at standings. Particularly with an infusion of money from NCAA. Is it 20 million per school or 20 million per conference? Per school would be amazing.

On the other hand, St John’s may decide to down grade some sports to club level — sports like swimming and diving. But I don’t recollect that they (we) are producing Olympians, nor will we.

The bigger issue — other than the toll the NCAA is putting on the Big East and .other non football conferences — is what will happen to parity within the Big East. But that’s happening now with NIL, unfortunately or fortunately, however you slice it. I also think the toll might be modified somewhat, since it is inherently unfair. Although everything is unfair to the small conferences without TV contracts. For St John’s at least, there seems ways to preserve Title VIIII.

So we’ll have to see. We’re not going to suffer as many will. The question is everyone else.

We dropped mens and women’s swimming and diving 21 years ago along with men’s cross country and track, ice hockey, football.

 

[SJU stalwart]

It’s listed as a sport on the Big East page. They are listed as standing in the middle of pack. And I think it’s listed .for both men’s and women. No ice hockey, field hockey or football.

We dropped mens and women’s swimming and diving 21 years ago along with men’s cross country and track, ice hockey, football.

 

[SJU stalwart]

Sorry, you are right. I made a mistake there. I try to weigh in only when I have an informed opinion. Maybe I should have just deleted and said N/M. This will teach me. But my thoughts on St. John’s and the Big East chasm still stands. I was surprised to see how many of these sports we do well in.

It’s listed as a sport on the Big East page. They are listed as standing in the middle of pack. And I think it’s listed .for both men’s and women. No ice hockey, field hockey or football.

 

[Knight]

Just kill any joy long suffering fans can have.

 

[Alumni Hall]

I might add we also dropped Rifle which made NCAA's each year as well as Bowling which also made numerous NCAA appearances on the same day they announced my previous mentioned sports. The 3rd floor lopped off over 250-300 athletes in one swift move. Talk about mental health issues that week for our kids.

 

[JohnnyFan]

We dropped mens and women’s swimming and diving 21 years ago along with men’s cross country and track, ice hockey, football.

Wow.....I didn't realize SJU dropped Men's, but not Women's Cross-County and Track & Field. There is some Title IX irony here, as they now offer more women's sports than men's sports.

 

[RedStormNC]

Actually, it must be all schools in total, which is a pittance per school. But they are talking about some 20 million cap per conference. I take it back — these articles are still confusing. But my opinion stands vis a vis St. John’s.

I think the $20M is just the cap schools can spend out of their own money

 

[Alumni Hall]

Wow.....I didn't realize SJU dropped Men's, but not Women's Cross-County and Track & Field. There is some Title IX irony here, as they now offer more women's sports than men's sports.

Back then our athletic department failed to follow through on the NCAA requirements of offering opportunities based on the male female % makeup of each institution. Around 2000 we were 55/45 male in sport athletes compared to a predominant 55% of female students campus wide enrollment. So instead of increasing female sports and athletes, they decided to reduce men's sports. They also cut athletic budgets across the board 3 years in a row which really hurt our student athletes.
If you took a plane to play a road game, your now on a bus. If you took a bus, your on vans. If you were using vans, don't schedule away events, play at home.