Buying into a role. You don't draft second round picks to be high usage guys.
NBA Draft 2025
- Thread starter dk423
- Start date
Good comparison.
Dom shouldn't have been drafted. It was one of the most surprising picks I've seen this century, but he was also arguably the most athletic kid in the entire draft and he had two undeniable NBA qualities: defense and rebounding. He was drafted as a lottery ticket.
RJ is being looked at differently. He's a complete player that doesn't stand out athletically from his peers.
Chriscin33
Well-known member
Boo Harvey
Well-known member
I understand that Pitino may not have wanted to deal with the uncertainty of RJ coming back or pay the premium that perhaps RJ was seeking. But what what basis does anybody have for the conclusion that Pitino didn’t want him? RJ was imperfect but he had an absolutely fabulous year for us and seems like a great kid.
I’m excited about our incoming transfers but would be delightedly surprised if one of them has anywhere close to the year RJ had for us last year.
Boo Harvey
Well-known member
RJ had one bad game and Pitino hung him out to dry. RJ was largely responsible for the great season we had. Credit to Pitino for getting a lot out of him, but jeez, let’s give RJ some credit too. I don’t blame RJ at all for not wanting to come back here after the way things went down.
As far as I’m concerned, he’s an all time great Johnny and I’m disappointed he’s not coming back. By all accounts, we’ve gotten some great transfers, but many who have never seen them play appear to be anointing them as upgrades over RJ. It’s the old addition by subtraction bs that drives me crazy. RJ was an all American and big east player of the year. Hey, maybe Sanon has a great year but the chances of him having anywhere near the year RJ had are remote.
Two things can be true simultaneously. We can lament the fact that a truly fabulous player is not returning for us while also remain hopeful and optimistic and the new players we’ve brought in.
As far as I’m concerned, he’s an all time great Johnny and I’m disappointed he’s not coming back. By all accounts, we’ve gotten some great transfers, but many who have never seen them play appear to be anointing them as upgrades over RJ. It’s the old addition by subtraction bs that drives me crazy. RJ was an all American and big east player of the year. Hey, maybe Sanon has a great year but the chances of him having anywhere near the year RJ had are remote.
Two things can be true simultaneously. We can lament the fact that a truly fabulous player is not returning for us while also remain hopeful and optimistic and the new players we’ve brought in.
Awesome post
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Boo Harvey
Well-known member
RJ was Big East POY and was an integral part of a historically great SJU team that revitalized the program. Ponds is one of my favorite SJU players in recent memories, but if what you say is true, then this fan base needs to get its collective heads examined.
This is crazy. Shamorie Ponds made two Big East 1st teams, was 2x AP honorable mention All-American, and never played a game after age 20. He made one as a 19 year old sophomore when the POY was Jalen Brunson and Nova won the national championship. Xavier was #3 in the country.
RJ played his entire season at 22. Imagine what Ponds could have done at 22 with Pitino?
I hear you but it is kind of a tough one because last years team had multiple stars and RJ, despite winning POY, was my least favorite.
I wasn't a fan of Kadary in the beginning of the season and by mid February he was one of my favorite Johnnies ever. Zuby is Zuby. Scott is one of my all time favorite glue guys.
I will always appreciate RJ and he gave us some great memories but I just didn't love his game. Relied way too much on his athleticism IMO
It also kinda sucks, but sometimes your final memory with someone can leave the biggest impression. I was in the building for the Arkansas game, RJ wasn't the only one who played poorly that day, but he was the only one who looked like he didn't care.
I think the comparison right or wrong is two hugely talented players who didn’t get the most out of their ability as opposed to someone like Julian. The tale remains to be told on RJ but I sure agree with it on Shamorie.
To me it makes sense for any player to enter the portal because as you say you never know what someone is willing to pay.
Not easy at all, for anyone. RJ was an exceptional college player (and maybe will be again next season!). However his exceptionalism lay almost entirely in his athleticism, as opposed to his playmaking or cerebral knowledge of the game. He feasted against many college teams and in many match-ups based on his physical ability and way the staff chose (wisely) to utilize him.
However from an NBA standpoint, his athletic gifts are not enough to move the needle in the absence of the other things that are required at that level and when the offenses will be very different.
As noted above, in that respect he is very much like Ponds who was an outstanding college player (worth the price of the ticket to see him play many nights) but never quite acquired the other skills that might have helped him succeed at the next level.
It's just one of those things that shows you how very different the NBA game is from college. Some guys who don't produce much in college are high picks for the NBA based on age, potential, and how the NBA thinks they will fit. Some guys who are highly productive in college never get a cup of coffee.
Sometimes it turns out the NBA is right and guys who were great in college get a cup of coffee and then go play in Turkey. Sometimes the NBA is wrong and guys it didn't think would make any noise wind up playing for a long time. Marcus Hatten never even got a cup of coffee. Walter Berry didn't make any noise in the NBA. Steve Blake (a 3 point shooting stiff from Maryland) played in the league for like 15 years.
I think that sometimes a big element is character, which is why Brunson and Champagnie outperformed their draft slots (Brunson by a lot). And I think Walter Clayton may very well do the same thing, and I'm hopeful about Zuby.
Hey, stiffs don’t average 7 assists for their career!
My Steve Blake hatred goes back to a Maryland buddy of mine who never let me forget that Blake was still playing in the NBA when Hatten never got there. Meanwhile Blake wasn't a fraction of Hatten in college. I may overstate the Blake case but he's my poster child for "how is this guy in the NBA forever" for better or worse. It's a "from the old neighborhood" grudge.
Is your last paragraph a backhanded way of saying that Shamorie and RJ lack character. If not, what was the purpose?
My "purpose" (if for some reason I need one) was to talk basketball. After all, it's what we are here for.
The last paragraph is unrelated to Luis and Ponds. The discussion is "NBA Draft" and the observation was that sometimes players who are second round or undrafted turn out to succeed, when you look at those players a common thread is often smart / high character / hard workers, that Clayton may fit into that category this year and Zuby may next year.
In other words, exactly what I said. Sorry if the transition in the post from "Luis / Ponds as NBA prospects" to "NBA is looking for different things than college" to "sometimes guys surprise and this is what I've noticed about them" was unclear. But Part 3 was unrelated to Part 1.
BTW I'm rarely accused of saying anything "in a backhanded way." Shamorie (who again I was a big fan of) did not make in the NBA and RJ is unlikely to make it in the NBA for exactly the same reason: They are both super-talented ball-dominant scorers who never made anyone around them better or played anything that looked like team basketball and also played poor fundamental defense that was often disguised by their elite athletic traits. Everybody in the NBA is as talented as they are/were, so at that level their flaws keep them from getting there.
I personally don't care for ball-dominant scorers but both Shamorie and RJ were necessities for their team and those teams (respectively) would have been a lot worse without them. It just doesn't seem to be what the NBA is looking for, unless you're 19 years old and already playing at that level.