Jack Williams post=439191 said:
SJUFAN2 post=439113 said:
Jack Williams post=439110 said:
SJUFAN2 post=439077 said:
AlexSTJ post=439073
19854ever post=439071 said:
I’ll stand by my opinion that Norm was the worst coach in the history of the program. Mullin’s best season his last much better than Norms 2 seasons above .500, attendance also was much better under Chris than Norm. Both coaches were left with empty cupboards when hired.
Both did not do a great job, I disagree that Norm did better with less. Steve Lavin had a solid year his first season with Norms players got them to the NCAAS was runner up for Big East coach of the year. Norm flat out was an awful in game coach, did he work harder recruiting than Chris probably but end of the day his losing % is worse than Chris.
You are what your record says you are.
Mullin beat a few more cupcakes during the early season. Wow. Attendance? Come on.
Robert's Conference winning % - .314. Against HOFs Calhoun, Wright, Huggins, Boeheim, Pitino. Can't forget JT3, Dixon, Brey, Cronin.
Mullin's Conference winning % - .278 against a much weaker conference except Wright and Nova, with better players recruited by Matt A.
Mullin got lucky he had bright, young talent like St. Jean and Matt's recruiting. What's the most memorable thing the 2 Hall of Famers did together while on SJU's payroll? Play a round of Horse with Bill Walton, in Hawaii. I rest my case.
Norm didn't miss any recruit visits to go bike riding with Walton either.
I suppose that we can split hairs over whose winning% was worse in conf, out of conf, etc, etc until the cows come home and never get anywhere.
Bottom line is that Norm took over this program at its lowest point since its inception and cleaned it up. The team he left to Lavin won 21 games in Lavin's first year.
Mullin took over a team that had just been to the NCAA tournament and delivered Norm like results for 4 seasons.
One of these is not like the other. So much so that it should be clear even to those who cannot separate Mullin the HOF player from Mullin the worst coach in school history.
How do you go from crediting Norm for leaving Lavin a good roster and then immediately switch over to saying "Mullin took over a team that had just been to an NCAA tournament"
What of that NCAA tournament was left for Mullin? Let's be fair here...
You clearly know leaving a good roster for the next coach is important because you credit Norm for doing it... but when it comes to what Lavin left Mullin, we just ignore it?
Mullin wasn't a good coach but thats still not fair
You missed the point. Its not about what roster they inherited, they both inherited an empty cupboard.
Its about the state of the program they inherited and where they left it when they were done.
Mullin inherited a team that was relevant again (Thanks to the work Lavin and Norm had done) and did nothing with it.
Norm inherited a team/program that was a laughingstock, an embarrassment, and barely an after thought for any local players of note. He turned over that full roster to Lavin who took them to the dance. Not saying Norm would have gotten them there but he clrealy advanced the ball in his time here. Mullin didn't.
Even so, you’re giving Norm credit for clearing baby steps that mullin didn’t have to.
it’s alot easier to take over a program that was going through a giant scandal, lose basketball games, but keep a clean program. If that’s what Norm accomplished than congrats to him.
but that’s a lot easier to do than to take over an empty roster and build a winner.
they’re both bad coaches, but I think we looked at Norm with a bit of rose colored glasses just because his players weren’t in strip clubs… which isn’t really fair to the coaches that came after
Norm took over a team that had zero talent, a horrible reputation, and was facing NCAA sanctions for the Jarvis era. It took him 6 years to put together a roster that could win in the BE (as it did the the following season under Lavin).
Mullin came into a program that had been cleaned up by Norm, and made nationally relevant by Lavin with his high profile recruiting and two NCAA appearances. When Mullin left he had a staff in shambles and no talent in the pipeline for his successor.
One guy took on a reclamation project for a program that was a national embarrassment/laughingstock and cleaned things up while setting up his successor for immediate success.
The other guy took over a program on the rise and used his legendary player status to help the program regress.
One of them did a "meh" job as a HC. The other one was Mullin.
Just curious Jack, but how old were you when the Jarvi were running things here? I could be wrong, and its certainly not a knock on you, but it feels like you may not have experienced that transition to Norm the way some of us did.
