Mid Season Report Card

B-
Time will tell, as the "semester" is still in progress. If we learn from mistakes and make the best of strengths, the weaknesses can be offset.
I still think the weaknesses can't be fully overcome, due to the fact that they are part of the Team's DNA.
I continue to be optimistic! Go Redmen! :yell:
 
Let's face it, this isn't the good old days, this school is going to always be at a disadvantage going forward. We don't have the money to hire a big time, sure shot coach like the other major powers, so believe it or not, Lavin is probably the best we can do. Sure, he's flawed, but his strength is in recruiting, and if we brought in an excellent game coach, they probably wouldn't be as successful recruiting. It is what it is.
 


Relax, give Lavin the season to coach the team and if we are NIT bound at the end I will join you in bashing him. But for now, the man has plenty of time to right the ship and get us to an NCAA tournament.

How many times have we heard Lavin say his team will be matured by February. Hopefully it works out. Do we really believe, come NCAA time, teams will not want to play us? To prove this we have to start beating the better teams or we can forget about March.
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.

He was the best hire at the time. He gave us the instant shot in the arm that we needed. We all hoped that he had grown as a game coach(except for those who refused to acknowledge that he was a poor game coach) since his days at UCLA. Based on most of our observations, he has not. I am not optimistic that he ever will. While we are lights years ahead of where we were under Norm, but I just don't feel that Lavin will ever bring us back to being a consistent top 25/tourny team as we were under Louie and through most of the 90's.
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.

He was the best hire at the time. He gave us the instant shot in the arm that we needed. We all hoped that he had grown as a game coach(except for those who refused to acknowledge that he was a poor game coach) since his days at UCLA. Based on most of our observations, he has not. I am not optimistic that he ever will. While we are lights years ahead of where we were under Norm, but I just don't feel that Lavin will ever bring us back to being a consistent top 25/tourny team as we were under Louie and through most of the 90's.

That's fair. And I might actually agree with your prediction.

If more people say that its fine. But for people to pull out random names is where I call BS. We shot for Billy D and were rebuffed. We thought we had Hewitt until his wife got cold feet. Lavin saw how much we were willing to pay Billy D and Hewitt and interest was peaked. Otherwise we were looking at someone like Al Skinner.
 
I don't believe that coaches matter all that much. You need good players. End of story. Lavin however is making me re-think the importance of coaching. It may just be that he is so limited that he needs top 5 talent to have a top 25 team.
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.


Dana Altman

Fair question. The guy I wanted at the time was Billy Donovan. That said, I realistically did not think he would leave Florida and I was indeed happy with the hiring of Steve Lavin. At the time, I thought we needed someone to put us back on the map. I think Lavin did lay the ground work with some very solid recruiting. However, I had no idea how weak of an X's and O's guy he was. Simplified, I think what most people are saying is true..........nice guy, good recruiter, lousy coach.
 
I give them an F
this team can be soooo good, but they just dont seem to have what it takes to be a winner. They are losers

We need Doherty!!! :nerd:

No not really. I think at this point we need Dunlop. You got the wrong "D"
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.

He was the best hire at the time. He gave us the instant shot in the arm that we needed. We all hoped that he had grown as a game coach(except for those who refused to acknowledge that he was a poor game coach) since his days at UCLA. Based on most of our observations, he has not. I am not optimistic that he ever will. While we are lights years ahead of where we were under Norm, but I just don't feel that Lavin will ever bring us back to being a consistent top 25/tourny team as we were under Louie and through most of the 90's.

That's fair. And I might actually agree with your prediction.

If more people say that its fine. But for people to pull out random names is where I call BS. We shot for Billy D and were rebuffed. We thought we had Hewitt until his wife got cold feet. Lavin saw how much we were willing to pay Billy D and Hewitt and interest was peaked. Otherwise we were looking at someone like Al Skinner.

Of course I hope and pray that I'm proven wrong :)
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.


well done moose.
in how many of our losses was SJU actually favored.
Take a look at the preseason picks:

Here are the 2013-14 Preseason Coaches’ Poll vote results, with point totals. First-place votes are in parentheses:

1. Marquette (5) 74
2. Georgetown (2) 70
3. Creighton (1) 61
4. Villanova 58
5. St. John’s (2) 56
6. Providence 41
7. Xavier 38
8. Seton Hall 20
9. Butler 19
10. DePaul 13


Why all the Lavin hate?

I like Lavin and I think he can turn it around. Any criticism I have is only to light a fire under these guys and to avoid being a fan with rose colored glasses. So I dont think there should be criticism of Lavin. What I want to know is why we dont have a viable replacement for a guy like Dunlap or why Keady with all his years of experience cant help Lavin more than he seems to be doing.
 
I don't believe that coaches matter all that much. You need good players. End of story. Lavin however is making me re-think the importance of coaching. It may just be that he is so limited that he needs top 5 talent to have a top 25 team.

And there in lies the problem that the UCLA fans had with him. He had top 5 talent every year, yet he did not produce results commensurate to his talent. Yeah we'd be thrilled with all those tourny appearances, unless we had top 5 talent and then we'd expect a run or two at a national championship. We undoubtedly have the talent to easily be a tourny team, but it needs to be harnessed. So far, it hasn't been. I don't blame the kids.
 
I don't believe that coaches matter all that much. You need good players. End of story. Lavin however is making me re-think the importance of coaching. It may just be that he is so limited that he needs top 5 talent to have a top 25 team.

And there in lies the problem that the UCLA fans had with him. He had top 5 talent every year, yet he did not produce results commensurate to his talent. Yeah we'd be thrilled with all those tourny appearances, unless we had top 5 talent and then we'd expect a run or two at a national championship. We undoubtedly have the talent to easily be a tourny team, but it needs to be harnessed. So far, it hasn't been. I don't blame the kids.

What puzzles me is how a team filled with a roster of poor shooting but long and super athletic players is constantly getting mired in a half court game. Why are we playing the opponent's game, instead getting them to play to our strength? Hatten's senior team had less depth and talent than this team. They also couldn't shoot. Yet I suspect that they would beat this team most of the time. Within 5 minutes, especially when they got in a good groove that led to the vacated NIT win, more skilled team were throwing wild passes and turning the ball over. They took other teams out of their game more often than not. they crashed the offensive boards. Not happening here.
 
If I'm deciding between an A, B, C or D I must go C. IF the season ends today, we have zero wins of note and do not deserve to be in the NCAA tourney. Every chance we've had to gain a key win, we've failed. Luckily there are a lot of games left on the schedule. I'd say its really anyone's guess if we can win enough the rest of the way to make the tournament. We are not even a bubble team at this point. Hopefully things change.
 
I don't believe that coaches matter all that much. You need good players. End of story. Lavin however is making me re-think the importance of coaching. It may just be that he is so limited that he needs top 5 talent to have a top 25 team.

And there in lies the problem that the UCLA fans had with him. He had top 5 talent every year, yet he did not produce results commensurate to his talent. Yeah we'd be thrilled with all those tourny appearances, unless we had top 5 talent and then we'd expect a run or two at a national championship. We undoubtedly have the talent to easily be a tourny team, but it needs to be harnessed. So far, it hasn't been. I don't blame the kids.

What puzzles me is how a team filled with a roster of poor shooting but long and super athletic players is constantly getting mired in a half court game. Why are we playing the opponent's game, instead getting them to play to our strength? Hatten's senior team had less depth and talent than this team. They also couldn't shoot. Yet I suspect that they would beat this team most of the time. Within 5 minutes, especially when they got in a good groove that led to the vacated NIT win, more skilled team were throwing wild passes and turning the ball over. They took other teams out of their game more often than not. they crashed the offensive boards. Not happening here.

That team, as you mentioned, could board.

Not to mention, Hatten could take over a game in a heartbeat.
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.

He was the best hire at the time. He gave us the instant shot in the arm that we needed. We all hoped that he had grown as a game coach(except for those who refused to acknowledge that he was a poor game coach) since his days at UCLA. Based on most of our observations, he has not. I am not optimistic that he ever will. While we are lights years ahead of where we were under Norm, but I just don't feel that Lavin will ever bring us back to being a consistent top 25/tourny team as we were under Louie and through most of the 90's.

That's fair. And I might actually agree with your prediction.

If more people say that its fine. But for people to pull out random names is where I call BS. We shot for Billy D and were rebuffed. We thought we had Hewitt until his wife got cold feet. Lavin saw how much we were willing to pay Billy D and Hewitt and interest was peaked. Otherwise we were looking at someone like Al Skinner.

Billy D's salary has been $3 million plus for some time, and Florida has no state income tax, while NYS is 10% with a much higher cost of living. Did SJU offer him in that range to entice him? If we had $3 million plus to spend, then you are in elite category, plus, there are only a handful of coaches earning that much. Lavin went for less than $1.5.
 

Honest two part question for you and anyone else who might consider Lavin a failure at this point

Did SJU make the right hire 4 years ago

And if not realistically who would you have rather seen as coach.

He was the best hire at the time. He gave us the instant shot in the arm that we needed. We all hoped that he had grown as a game coach(except for those who refused to acknowledge that he was a poor game coach) since his days at UCLA. Based on most of our observations, he has not. I am not optimistic that he ever will. While we are lights years ahead of where we were under Norm, but I just don't feel that Lavin will ever bring us back to being a consistent top 25/tourny team as we were under Louie and through most of the 90's.

That's fair. And I might actually agree with your prediction.

If more people say that its fine. But for people to pull out random names is where I call BS. We shot for Billy D and were rebuffed. We thought we had Hewitt until his wife got cold feet. Lavin saw how much we were willing to pay Billy D and Hewitt and interest was peaked. Otherwise we were looking at someone like Al Skinner.

Billy D's salary has been $3 million plus for some time, and Florida has no staorte income tax, while NYS is 10% with a much higher cost of living. Did SJU offer him in that range to entice him? If we had $3 million plus to spend, then you are in elite category, plus, there are only a handful of coaches earning that much. Lavin went for less than $1.5.

I guess you get what you pay for
 
There was a reason why Lavin was at ESPN for all those years.. If schools thought he was a good Coach , after UCLA, they would have Re-cycled him for their school.

The word was out for a long time in Basketball circles, not just the UCLA fans, that Steve could not win , even if he had Kobe on his Bruin Teams. Sure he took top 5 talent to sweet 16's and elite 8's but, he was expected to win titles not finish decently.

Lavin was a name get, because everyone knew him him from his analyst gig.. At the time, I believe most of us were quite pleased with the hire because he did have Name Recognition.

He did a great job with the Hardy NCAA team until the Gonzaga game when it became apparent he had no answer from the bench on what Mark Few was doing to contain Hardy.

For those who think Keady had any role in recruiting/ Coaching these current players, think again. Other than Jordan, not one of our players would have played for Gene at Purdue. They have none of the skills his team's were famous for, defense, rebounding and SHOOTING. Some may think they have great individual talent but, this is a team game, not one on one basketball. Lavin hasn't accomplished team basketball, at all. Gene must muzzle himself with the Double Makers Mark before the games.. The Keady HOF Coach, would not have allowed his players to often perform so ineffectively as this group does. He would have scoured the cornfields of Indiana to get 5 kids who could shoot a jumper, not leap over the barn.

Only Dinkins and a few other homers can remotely believe this team is well coached in fundamentals..After 3 years wouldn't you expect more?

And, Recruiting has dried up for the future. Other than Jordan. The guys Lavin Coaches against and recruits against all know he can't Coach and don't think they forget to tell that to prime recruits?

Louie won for many years without the best talent because he had a system, a simple one that players without NBA skills could execute and win.. When he did get talent he molded it into his style, even with Mullin and Berry, Jackson.. Yeah, he would often get out coached in a big game but, overall, he won.

And, for those comparing Sampson to Berry and their assists, please stop.. Walter Berry scored in the low post on everyone he played against, Ewing, Pinckney, etc, who cares if the ball never came out when he got it down low. Sampson in no Berry.

For over 3 years we've waited for this team, constructed solely by Lavin himself, to blossom, once they got experience. Well, we're still waiting..The whole is definitely less than the parts.

The yardstick to measure Lavin against this year is the NCAA BID. If it doesn't happen, I'm not sure he's earned a contract renewal yet, with 1 year to go. Maybe his heart isn't in the Game like it was before his illness?. Who's to say? Maybe he, wife want back to Hollywood? This weekend's snow may kindle that thought.
 
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