Matt Doherty
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jerseyshorejohnny
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No opinion on Harrington's process. Just communicating my POV on Doh. Not sure anyone knew how I felt.Las Vegan" post=415258 said:austour" post=415254 said:I was going to say common sense prevailed, but then I figured he probably talked to people at UNC.Las Vegan" post=415240 said:
Wouldn't that be something that should have been done prior to making the job offer?
beast of the east
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While the article focused on the SJU job, the focus of the book is not about bitter feelings about the sju job. I'd go out on a limb and say Matt would say its water under the bridge.
beast of the east
Active member
While the article focused on the SJU job, the focus of the book is not about bitter feelings about the sju job. I'd go out on a limb and say Matt would say its water under the bridge.
Let me start by saying this is anecototal.
I have a good friend who had a very successful career on Wall Street.
He knew Matt Doherty and Jim Sparnakel from their days there.
He thought Doherty was smarmy and a bit pompous.
He liked Sparnakel alot, solid, great guy all the way around (in my friend's opinion).
Not knowing much about Sparnakel, I looked up his stats at Duke and in the NBA, excellent college player in MBB and a pitcher in baseball, and a decent NBA career.
Doherty won his title THANKS TO MJ, but Jim S. had a much better BB career, and when he does a SJU game you can tell he is a fan of our team.
Matt's alluding to Looie not wanting him as coach because he got recuited by Looie (unsuccessfully) sounds like sour grapes to me. Looie's line about "if everyone I didn't get, --I ended up holding it against them--- ----there'd be no one to consider", sounds like a classic Looie line.
Two college basketball players (among many) with a toe on Wall Street.
I have a good friend who had a very successful career on Wall Street.
He knew Matt Doherty and Jim Sparnakel from their days there.
He thought Doherty was smarmy and a bit pompous.
He liked Sparnakel alot, solid, great guy all the way around (in my friend's opinion).
Not knowing much about Sparnakel, I looked up his stats at Duke and in the NBA, excellent college player in MBB and a pitcher in baseball, and a decent NBA career.
Doherty won his title THANKS TO MJ, but Jim S. had a much better BB career, and when he does a SJU game you can tell he is a fan of our team.
Matt's alluding to Looie not wanting him as coach because he got recuited by Looie (unsuccessfully) sounds like sour grapes to me. Looie's line about "if everyone I didn't get, --I ended up holding it against them--- ----there'd be no one to consider", sounds like a classic Looie line.
Two college basketball players (among many) with a toe on Wall Street.
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austour" post=415269 said:No opinion on Harrington's process. Just communicating my POV on Doh. Not sure anyone knew how I felt.Las Vegan" post=415258 said:austour" post=415254 said:I was going to say common sense prevailed, but then I figured he probably talked to people at UNC.Las Vegan" post=415240 said:
Wouldn't that be something that should have been done prior to making the job offer?
I don't think I was to high on Doh either but I was excited about the new fieldhouse which made it more palatable. Doh rubbed alot of people the wrong way, both at ND and UNC (especially). It is one thing when you rub your opponents the wrong way, but when you do it to the people you work for and those who support the program, you going to have a problem.
beast of the east
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Doherty was an old school coach who was very tough on players. At ND, he was successful in getting the school to spend $1 million on new locker rooms for the players, and that was twenty years ago, because he knew how important facilities were for recruiting and at ND basketball was a second class citizen. His team at ND was a bubble team, and when they didn't make the dance, went deep into the NIT. Kevin White was the AD at Notre Dame, and when UNC offered Doherty, ND countered with a 10 year $12 million contract offer. To say he wasn't liked there may be a little off. I can't say because I wasn't there, but supposed Brey gave Doherty credit for elevating the program.SJU85" post=415278 said:austour" post=415269 said:No opinion on Harrington's process. Just communicating my POV on Doh. Not sure anyone knew how I felt.Las Vegan" post=415258 said:austour" post=415254 said:I was going to say common sense prevailed, but then I figured he probably talked to people at UNC.Las Vegan" post=415240 said:
Wouldn't that be something that should have been done prior to making the job offer?
I don't think I was to high on Doh either but I was excited about the new fieldhouse which made it more palatable. Doh rubbed alot of people the wrong way, both at ND and UNC (especially). It is one thing when you rub your opponents the wrong way, but when you do it to the people you work for and those who support the program, you going to have a problem.
You can trash him as a player, but he was 3 year starter at one of the nation's top programs. He knows that Jordan, Perkins, Worthy, and Daughtry were NBA talent, but he was good enough to start, and I think he led the team in assists, or was way up there.
As a coach he won Big East coach of the year, and AP national coach of the year.
I can't speak for how people liked or didn't like him on Wall Street, but I will say Wall Street in general doesn't ever make me feel warm and fuzzy, and early on turned down an opportunity to go there without giving it a seocnd thought or regret.
Insofar as Looie blocking his hire, I can't say. But apparently SOMEONE blocked his hire, and someone apparently blocked us hiring Cluess. Harrington may have opted for Roberts, which was a little ridiculous even then, and someone else apparently nixed Cluess when he was at the doorstep of gettung hired here.
I would say his book appears heartfelt, and worth a $10 spend on Amazon Kindle..
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Class of 72
Active member
Matt played under great coaches starting with Bob Mckillop at Trinity and he was a great player who I followed since his high school days.
I recall him being super competitive and a team player who didn't back down from anyone.
That said, he possessed a personality that was abrasive and dismissive that was hard to like.
I recall him being super competitive and a team player who didn't back down from anyone.
That said, he possessed a personality that was abrasive and dismissive that was hard to like.
As a aside to the DOH posts , I found it interesting that then ND AD Kevin White , offered DOH a 10 year $ 12 million dollar deal to stay at ND . But , White was also the AD at ND who hired Charlie Weis , offered him a very large package of Millions and also 10 years . Weis is among the worst Coaches ever at ND along with Willingham , who White also hired . To say , ND fans were ecstatic when White left to go to Duke is a Understatement . Weis , despite being a ND Alum is similarly disliked , not only for being a terrible Coach but , also a well known Jerk around Campus . Weis was being paid Millions by ND until 2015 . He is the Bobby Bonilla of ND football . I know this post is about DOH but , I did mention him . All up, probably good idea Matt didn't get the St John's job but , Robert's was a poor choice too .
beast of the east
Active member
At Notre Dame, winning in football is mandatory. At UNC, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Kentucky, and a handful of others, the jobs are incredible pressure cookers wher anything less than a championship caliber team or a championship itself, is failure. I'm not disputing what you say about Weis, but the ND football job is very different from the ND basketball job. The UNC basketball job is light years ahead of ours. Doherty was an intense coach, who grew up with intense coaches. He was schooled under the best coaches in basketball - Dean Smith, Roy WIlliams, McKillop and played for two of them. Whatever the criticisms of those who have interacted with him or heard 2nd or 3rd hand, each of those coaches knew him extremely well, and each hired him to be on their staffs. When Doherty was on the fence about the UNC job, none other than Michael Jordan called him to convince him to take the position. Perhaps he would still be at ND had he stayed there. Perhaps with a little more maturity or track record of success he would not have lost his players at UNC. It's one thing to have Bobby Knight screaming at you, and another to have a relatively new HC do it. He was able to recruit a team that won a national championship at UNC after he departed.At Notre SLYFOXX1968" post=415339 said:
I'm not saying he would have been successful here. I don't know, and considering what happened after UNC it's too easy to say he would have failed here. But there is no question he had success coaching and learning from the best and perhaps without the pressure cooker that exists at UNC would have done just fine here. The only thing we can be sure of is that NR was a pretty horrible choice as it worked out. Think of this - some people hail Roberts for building a senior laden team that made the NCAA's after he was fired. Doherty also was fired, and his team won the national championship. Big difference.
My memory is of locker room transcripts of Doherty at UNC in which he was abusive. There is a difference between challenging performance and personal abuse and though it can be a tough line to tread without missteps, my memory is that Doh was way over the line. We were coming out of a scandal (Jarvis, Pittsburgh, Keita) which had followed the departure of Fran, known as an abusive coach, and I was among those very wary of Doherty.
Matt being a good man aside, only someone that knows him well can make that call IMHO; there seemed to be a fairly common thread in these posts, from a couple of pompuses and "only got worse" to "likely people at NC did not speak highly of him" when he was up for our job. Another comment about rubbing people the wrong way. Wall Street certainly has its share of jerks and pompous types, but for DOH to stick out makes you wonder. Thank you, austour, SJU85, SLYFOXX1968.
DOH ended up with a college record as coach of 10 games under .500 and didn't distinquish himself at SMU and spent only one year at Florida Atlantic. A UNC player accused him of knowing about all the "fake" classes UNC student athletes were taking. Boy did that school get the "light touch" from the NCAA.
NR was not the right guy, but I think with all we know, MD would not have been the right choice either, thank you Fr. Harrington (for something).
DOH ended up with a college record as coach of 10 games under .500 and didn't distinquish himself at SMU and spent only one year at Florida Atlantic. A UNC player accused him of knowing about all the "fake" classes UNC student athletes were taking. Boy did that school get the "light touch" from the NCAA.
NR was not the right guy, but I think with all we know, MD would not have been the right choice either, thank you Fr. Harrington (for something).
beast of the east
Active member
There is really not a lot of defense for abusive behavior but I can tell you that many coaches in HS and college were similar for a very long time. I know a guy who had a myriad of those type of offenses, and he is in his school's HOF. Once while he was enraged at halftime of how poorly his team had played, one of his starters spoke up to offer a suggestion. He was so white hot angry, he shoved the kid into a locker and locked it and the team played the second half without the kid. Another time a kid ran a last possession play designed to get an easy basket, but instead the kid was open from the outside and launched a shot that missed with plenty of time left. He told his assistant, "When I get to the locker room, he'd had better been gone or I'm going to kill him." The kid was so terrified he grabbed his coat and clothes and fled still in his uniform. I have a few more stories about the guy, who in general was widely loved by his former players.fuchsia" post=415358 said:
All that stuff doesn't pass muster in today's game, but that's just the way it was back then in many programs. Rice and Doherty were by no means alone.
Beast , just a point of clarification , my comments earlier were more to the issue of Kevin White seemingly in love with extraordinary long Contracts for Weis and the 10 year offer to DOH as a rebuttal to his NCarolina offer . To be blunt , it appeared to me to be ridiculous for any AD to offer any Coach a 10 year Contract worth Millioms of dollars . The implied criticism is directed at White who arguably , was a Disaster at ND for hiring Weis and Wilingham . The offering of a 10 year contract to DOH was just one of White's blunders . Weis was a failure every place he went after ND but , was still collecting Millions from the Irish . It still rankles the ND faithful . From what I hear . As for DOH , he got other Coaching jobs after NCarolina but , never duplicated his 1 year success at ND . As for Angry Coaches in College or elsewhere , many of the most successful were brutal to their Players and not always physically abusive but , verbally as well . But, many in that category are revered by those who played for them as you mentioned . Ultimately , who 's to say what the verdict is ?