Matt A

[quote="fordham96" post=287462][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

That wasn't even close to my point and focusing on that rather than the 10 other points I made that are 100% valid shows you have no intentions of making an honest argument.

Under the previous staff SJU landed Mo Harkless, Rysheed Jordan, Obekpa, Dom Pointer, Sampson, etc. Are you saying we focused our energy incorrectly there too?

And last time I checked the point he made was these transfers have "experience" already. So what difference does someone's HS ranking make if your point is college experience. RJ Barrett has ZERO college experience, that is the point. Are you saying there is a ranking cutoff so after a certain point you would take a HS kid over a college kid? Well then you should say that shouldn't you.

The bottom line is the argument was completely flawed. SJU's transfers for the most part have high risk because their transfers fall into one of two categories:

1)High major kids who have done very little and are looking for a new start (usually because they have been recruited over) or
2)Low major kids who are productive but now believe they can play at a higher level.

Heron is the exception. I would take him under any circumstance. He is a big time kid who has produced on a HIGH major level already in addition to being a stud in high school.

But don't tell me every transfer is Mustapha Heron. It is isn't. And again I am not against transfers per se. I think we should just pick our spots more carefully. The previous poster not only thought it was a good strategy but that it is a BETTER strategy because these kids already have college experience. That was my point. I used RJ Barrett as an extreme example but the point is no top 100 college kid has experience are we actually going to say that these kids should be of secondary value because our first priority should be transfers based on the notion of "experience?"[/quote]

When you are talking about 5 star recruits, to some extent they are the exception. The very best of them would go right to the NBA is rules allowed that. I think you are just trying to win a point without logic. Once any hs player steps onto a college D1 court, everything changes. He usually is no longer the best player on his team, the players are bigger, stronger, faster, and more talented. Some of the guys who transfer here (Simon) were highly touted but performed not as well as their team thought, thus less opportunity. Others were recruited over. Needless to say, guys transfer for a better situation, but to think that getting a view of how they performed in a college program isn't valuable, that's just incorrect no matter how many words you use.
 
Duke has joined the ranks of heavily investing in the 1 and done Player. Barrett is likekly in that category and Coack K’s resume is anong the All Time Best . I would say Barrett isn’t planning on being a Duke Student for 4 years but, hope he does get a degree from some where . As for St John’s , we have not yet established ourselves as a destination for the 1 and done player . But, Mullin brought in Ponds from HS and Simon, Clark and Heron from the transfer route . Those 3 are high level players , some with NBA potential . Wright , next Year was a top 100 player in HS . Mullin has brought on board some highly touted players which kind of knocks out the wearisome notion of him sitting on a Rocking Chair , doesnt it ? I think it does . And , make no mistake these Players know they will be Coached by 2 HOF legends . So, the talent upgrade from just this off season is Rocket Fueled at this point . As for Barrett , he was likely deciding from amongst Kentucky, Kansas , in addition to Duke . Maybe it would have been nice to know there was at least a dialogue with the Barretts but, like i said , we aren’t yet at the level the 1 and doners are seeking . I think Mullin will do that soon .
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=287458][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years[/quote]

Good points Al.
I’m holding my breath that Mustapha is eligible in 2018-19 and that he does stay that second year.
Should he lead us to the dance and beyond, he may reconsider—which would be great for both him and St. John’s.
Let’s go Johnnies.[/quote] Excellent point. I would rather have a jr. Heron then a fr. Barrett. But as you said Heron may not be eligible this year and could go pro after this year. Which is not a pretty thought for us redman fans.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=287484]Duke has joined the ranks of heavily investing in the 1 and done Player. Barrett is likekly in that category and Coack K’s resume is anong the All Time Best . I would say Barrett isn’t planning on being a Duke Student for 4 years but, hope he does get a degree from some where . As for St John’s , we have not yet established ourselves as a destination for the 1 and done player . But, Mullin brought in Ponds from HS and Simon, Clark and Heron from the transfer route . Those 3 are high level players , some with NBA potential . Wright , next Year was a top 100 player in HS . Mullin has brought on board some highly touted players which kind of knocks out the wearisome notion of him sitting on a Rocking Chair , doesnt it ? I think it does . And , make no mistake these Players know they will be Coached by 2 HOF legends . So, the talent upgrade from just this off season is Rocket Fueled at this point . As for Barrett , he was likely deciding from amongst Kentucky, Kansas , in addition to Duke . Maybe it would have been nice to know there was at least a dialogue with the Barretts but, like i said , we aren’t yet at the level the 1 and doners are seeking . I think Mullin will do that soon .[/quote]

Again you guys mix and match arguments and say things after the fact. You had no idea Clark and Simon were big time players because their productivity was not there when they were brought in from their previous schools.

You are claiming Wright is a iood signing because he was a top 100 player 2 years ago without mentioning he has been playing for 2 years with not great numbers.

In other words when it suits your argument you use productivity, when it doesn't suit your argument you bring up high school rankings.

Well guess what by using shifting standards I could justify just about any recruiting strategy.

As for Coach K using the one and done that is disingenuous as well. What does one and done have to do with relying on transfers? So there is only one way to get high school kids, go after one and done and if you can"t land them go the transfer route? Really? There is no in between? So before the one and done Coach K heavily relied on transfers? Really? I don't think so.

And the NBA potential comment is completely subjective, there is no one on SJU roster at this moment projected to be drafted. That could change. But Ponds was the best and Heron also made himself available and neither were projected to be drafted.

The other thing about the danger of transfers (besides the fact that they need to sit out a year) is the fact most of these occur AFTER the regular season. In other words if you are going to rely on this then you are for the most part waiting until the following spring to keep reloading your roster and doing it a bit blindly without knowing who will be available. As opposed to actual High School recruits who you have presumably been tracking and recruiting for months.
 
[quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's fan, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that have a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.
If you keep holding your breath Logen you will self asphyxiate from waiting. ;)
 
Last edited:
[quote="Class of 72" post=287489][quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the he current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that has a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.[/quote]

The only thing Mullin would use to sell is the truth. Cal, out of the gates early in his career, would say absolutely anything to get a kid to commit (the alleged Carnesecca has cancer thing). Now Cal and K have a long list of top tier NBA draft picks that is mostly what a kid cares about. Mullin/Richmond might as well be Magic/Bird/Jordan - but until we regularly place guys in the NBA draft a kid could not care too much about their own playing success.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=287490][quote="Class of 72" post=287489][quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the he current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that has a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.[/quote]

The only thing Mullin would use to sell is the truth. Cal, out of the gates early in his career, would say absolutely anything to get a kid to commit (the alleged Carnesecca has cancer thing). Now Cal and K have a long list of top tier NBA draft picks that is mostly what a kid cares about. Mullin/Richmond might as well be Magic/Bird/Jordan - but until we regularly place guys in the NBA draft a kid could not care too much about their own playing success.[/quote]

The bigger problem with the excuse
of high ranking kids not choosing SJU until they win is that this excuse was never a viable excuse for previous coaches. Why is it suddenly a viable excuse now?

Are we saying Mullin was hired NOT because we thought the recruiting would get better based on his NYC bacjground, his SJU roots and presumably his staff?

It just seems that a lot of these excuses are being made AFTER the fact. In other words no one was saying these things when he was hired. It is being said out of convenience not from a point of fact.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=287492][quote="Beast of the East" post=287490][quote="Class of 72" post=287489][quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the he current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that has a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.[/quote]

The only thing Mullin would use to sell is the truth. Cal, out of the gates early in his career, would say absolutely anything to get a kid to commit (the alleged Carnesecca has cancer thing). Now Cal and K have a long list of top tier NBA draft picks that is mostly what a kid cares about. Mullin/Richmond might as well be Magic/Bird/Jordan - but until we regularly place guys in the NBA draft a kid could not care too much about their own playing success.[/quote]

The bigger problem with the excuse
of high ranking kids not choosing SJU until they win is that this excuse was never a viable excuse for previous coaches. Why is it suddenly a viable excuse now?

Are we saying Mullin was hired NOT because we thought the recruiting would get better based on his NYC bacjground, his SJU roots and presumably his staff?

It just seems that a lot of these excuses are being made AFTER the fact. In other words no one was saying these things when he was hired. It is being said out of convenience not from a point of fact.[/quote]

Are you having a Midol day?

ANyone who follows college basketball knows that high profile recruits care about one thing - getting to the NBA. Everything else is secondary. They don't care about winning, the quality of education, girls, campus life, anything, more than getting to the NBA. The best don't see themselves sticking around for very long. This isn't a changing story, this has been a reality for quite some time.

Lavin had that credibility by getting Harkless and Sampson there quickly, which was built on his prior experience. Mullin does not have that yet. Winning does attract that caliber of player, since if you dance and play great, you get worldwide exposure and quickly and move up the draft ladder.

You are just being foolish now. I'm kind of done talking to you, so go argue with someone else. I articulate my own thoughts, so don't lump me in with any one else you are arguing with either.
 
Last edited:
[quote="fordham96" post=287492][quote="Beast of the East" post=287490][quote="Class of 72" post=287489][quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the he current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that has a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.[/quote]

The only thing Mullin would use to sell is the truth. Cal, out of the gates early in his career, would say absolutely anything to get a kid to commit (the alleged Carnesecca has cancer thing). Now Cal and K have a long list of top tier NBA draft picks that is mostly what a kid cares about. Mullin/Richmond might as well be Magic/Bird/Jordan - but until we regularly place guys in the NBA draft a kid could not care too much about their own playing success.[/quote]

The bigger problem with the excuse
of high ranking kids not choosing SJU until they win is that this excuse was never a viable excuse for previous coaches. Why is it suddenly a viable excuse now?

Are we saying Mullin was hired NOT because we thought the recruiting would get better based on his NYC bacjground, his SJU roots and presumably his staff?

It just seems that a lot of these excuses are being made AFTER the fact. In other words no one was saying these things when he was hired. It is being said out of convenience not from a point of fact.[/quote]



I am very confused by your post Fordham. I don't think anyone made excuses for the staff. Just stated the fact that St. Johns will probably not be a destination for top 50 kids until we start winning. That is the reason the other coaches that you refer to are no longer here. If we do not start winning this year, the present staff may not be here much longer. Call me the eternal optimist, but I believe that this is the year we make some noise in the Big East and in the Tournament.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=287489][quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's fan, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that have a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.
If you keep holding your breath Logen you will self asphyxiate from waiting. ;)[/quote]

Man, get over yourself. I am not accepting anything. I am rooting for a college basketball team. What I accept as a fan has NOTHING to do with anything. You think all your whining and sarcasm changes the reality what SJU is and is not one iota? Not at all, not one bit, nada, none. I live in the real world not in some fantasy existence that my crying on an internet website is going to change reality. IMO, we are just not a viable destination for the one and done player and I have posted that as my opinion long before Mullin got here. Further, contrary to your perverted opinion, I have not once come out as a Mullin supporter. I have argued he needs a realistic amount of time to PROVE one way or the other what he can do or can't do OVER TIME. Yes, I believe he has done a good job to this point in the context of what he inherited, nothing more, nothing less. You see I have some experience in the game, and have a perspective of the challenge that faced Mullin and co. And no, Mullin has not been "bailed out" by anyone. Matt A. has done a truly tremendous job as PART OF MULLIN"S STAFF. To say what would happen if Matt wasn't here is as nonsensical as many of your points because HE IS HERE. You don't like Mullin and the only evidence you can show is that SJU hasn't recruited on a par with the best of the best after his couple of years, fine, you're entitled. But from where I sit is just shows a childish expectation completely out of touch with reality. But keep on whining, it certainly helps keep my juices flowing as I wait for what I hope is an outstanding season. And oh, why? Because we have players, in spite of the fact that we can't, won't and don't recruit. Weird phenomenon don't you think?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=287487][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=287484]Duke has joined the ranks of heavily investing in the 1 and done Player. Barrett is likekly in that category and Coack K’s resume is anong the All Time Best . I would say Barrett isn’t planning on being a Duke Student for 4 years but, hope he does get a degree from some where . As for St John’s , we have not yet established ourselves as a destination for the 1 and done player . But, Mullin brought in Ponds from HS and Simon, Clark and Heron from the transfer route . Those 3 are high level players , some with NBA potential . Wright , next Year was a top 100 player in HS . Mullin has brought on board some highly touted players which kind of knocks out the wearisome notion of him sitting on a Rocking Chair , doesnt it ? I think it does . And , make no mistake these Players know they will be Coached by 2 HOF legends . So, the talent upgrade from just this off season is Rocket Fueled at this point . As for Barrett , he was likely deciding from amongst Kentucky, Kansas , in addition to Duke . Maybe it would have been nice to know there was at least a dialogue with the Barretts but, like i said , we aren’t yet at the level the 1 and doners are seeking . I think Mullin will do that soon .[/quote]

Again you guys mix and match arguments and say things after the fact. You had no idea Clark and Simon were big time players because their productivity was not there when they were brought in from their previous schools.

You are claiming Wright is a iood signing because he was a top 100 player 2 years ago without mentioning he has been playing for 2 years with not great numbers.

In other words when it suits your argument you use productivity, when it doesn't suit your argument you bring up high school rankings.

Well guess what by using shifting standards I could justify just about any recruiting strategy.

As for Coach K using the one and done that is disingenuous as well. What does one and done have to do with relying on transfers? So there is only one way to get high school kids, go after one and done and if you can"t land them go the transfer route? Really? There is no in between? So before the one and done Coach K heavily relied on transfers? Really? I don't think so.

And the NBA potential comment is completely subjective, there is no one on SJU roster at this moment projected to be drafted. That could change. But Ponds was the best and Heron also made himself available and neither were projected to be drafted.

The other thing about the danger of transfers (besides the fact that they need to sit out a year) is the fact most of these occur AFTER the regular season. In other words if you are going to rely on this then you are for the most part waiting until the following spring to keep reloading your roster and doing it a bit blindly without knowing who will be available. As opposed to actual High School recruits who you have presumably been tracking and recruiting for months.[/quote]

Sometimes reading Fordham posts make me feel like Andy Dufresne trying to escape Shawshank. But he makes a good point. I actually agree with him about the primary recruiting of transfers strategy.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=287497][quote="Class of 72" post=287489][quote="Logen" post=287465][quote="panther2" post=287461][quote="Beast of the East" post=287460][quote="Chicago Days" post=287457][quote="Class of 72" post=287453][quote="AlBovino" post=287450]Great job Fordham96 comparing RJ Barrett the best freshman in the country to David Caraher. Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable. So who would you rather have Barrett for one year or Heron for two years?[/quote]

I agree when you say "Comparing Barrett to Mustapha Heron would be much more equitable."
Hopefully this season we will get to do just that because RJ is a lottery pick.
Every time I see his name associated with Duke I want to punch a wall!
The son of an alum never gave St. John's a NY minute of consideration.
I can't wait for the Heron-Barrett matchup!!![/quote]

Yes ‘72 very depressing that “the son of an alum...” didn’t give us as much as a NY minute.
Hopefully, the tide she be turning.[/quote]

With 6 coaches in 25 years, several ADs, and investing much less than other schools in athletic department infrastructure, you wonder if the school has much of an outreach to former athletes. You also need coaches that can get beyond the continual cycle of large scale roster rebuild that the last 3 coaches encountered. You also need coaches with a sense of history that understand how important it is to keep former players and coaches close to the program. I wouldn't put this all on Barrett, or on any former player whose kid becomes a high profile recruit.[/quote]



RJ Barrett is the best player in this class, I can't blame his father for choosing Duke. As Beast stated, we have not yet shown that we are a stable program. Choosing a college for these kids is like investing money for posters on this board, you go to the one with the best guarantee of maximizing your investment. Hopefully, this is the year that we begin to win and change the perception of our program.

I am a proud alum of St. Johns. However, if my granddaughter is offered scholarships to St. Johns and Harvard when she graduates from high school, she is going to Harvard.[/quote]

Great post, for an RJ Barrett to pick a college is strictly a business decision, nothing more, nothing less. The overwhelming majority of players with his ability (and there aren't all that many) would not play a minute in college if not forced to. He played for three high schools, winding up at one hundreds, if not thousands of miles from his home. The idea that he would hhave some type of allegiance to SJU because his father played here is ludicrous to me. It is an absolutely different world and the astronomical transfer numbers we see in college are just reflective of the world these players grow up in, jumping between AAU teams and high schools at a moments notice. Just the way it is. Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.[/quote]

No offense but if you are a St. John's fan, and for you and a number of other Mullin supporters, when you say the ludicrous such as "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.", then you are in that group of fans that continues to accept a lower bar at St. John's than at Nevada-Reno, Texas Tech, Memphis or even Wichita State.
Those programs are attracting top talent because their coaches are influential in players chosing to attend those schools.
An an 18 year old player not only has no clue about the coaching history of St. John's, let alone it's athletic directors, but is basing their decision based upon the current coaches and winning history.
THAT is what Mullin and Richmond were hired to do and at veteran coaches' salaries. Calipari got players at UMASS, then at Memphis, and now easily at Kentucky. Mullin and Richmond have not yet gained that respect regardless of their NBA history. Part of it is our 3 year record of mediocrity, part of it is the hands off approach to recruiting by those two but none of it has to do with Norm Roberts or Steve Lavin who are now ancient history in the minds of 17 year old juniors in high school.
Matt has done an incredible job bailing both Mullin and Richmond out with transfers but do any of you ever imagine if what recruiting would look like if he left? What if Mullin listened to the Maven and fired him? The fact is neither Mullin nor Richmond are using their respective reputation to groom and sell high school players from my vantage point. Neither was, in the past three years, able to get an ounce of influence out of potential NBA players like Barrett, Achiuwa or Bol. All players that have a connection to these same coaches. Those connections were there "before" the last place Big East finishes and 0-11 losing streaks.
Jordan Brown isn't going to Nevada because of their past history and RJ isn't going to Duke because of the reputation of the Sociology Department. They were influenced by who will be coaching them.
THAT is where Mully needs to do a better job as he gains coaching experience.
If you keep holding your breath Logen you will self asphyxiate from waiting. ;)[/quote]

Man, get over yourself. I am not accepting anything. I am rooting for a college basketball team. What I accept as a fan has NOTHING to do with anything. You think all your whining and sarcasm changes the reality what SJU is and is not one iota? Not at all, not one bit, nada, none. I live in the real world not in some fantasy existence that my crying on an internet website is going to change reality. IMO, we are just not a viable destination for the one and done player and I have posted that as my opinion long before Mullin got here. Further, contrary to your perverted opinion, I have not once come out as a Mullin supporter. I have argued he needs a realistic amount of time to PROVE one way or the other what he can do or can't do OVER TIME. Yes, I believe he has done a good job to this point in the context of what he inherited, nothing more, nothing less. You see I have some experience in the game, and have a perspective of the challenge that faced Mullin and co. And no, Mullin has not been "bailed out" by anyone. Matt A. has done a truly tremendous job as PART OF MULLIN"S STAFF. To say what would happen if Matt wasn't here is as nonsensical as many of your points because HE IS HERE. You don't like Mullin and the only evidence you can show is that SJU hasn't recruited on a par with the best of the best after his couple of years, fine, you're entitled. But from where I sit is just shows a childish expectation completely out of touch with reality. But keep on whining, it certainly helps keep my juices flowing as I wait for what I hope is an outstanding season. And oh, why? Because we have players, in spite of the fact that we can't, won't and don't recruit. Weird phenomenon don't you think?[/quote]

Logen, I don't know you, where you live or how connected to the program you are other than you regularly accusing others of being "Mullin" haters and your continuous reaffirmation that St. John's has been a mediocre basketball program and that it still is and seemingly will not change any time soon, except for possibly and hopefully, having a good season next year.
Let me start by saying that you have no idea what, if any connection, I have to Chris or whether I dislike him. If you did you would not pollute this forum with your accusations. If you are not a Mullin supporter, which I actually am because he happens to be our coach, then stop with the half-hearted defenses. We didn't pay Lavin $2 million and Chris $2 million (with a 600K Slice tab) to be mediocre. If any employer paid that kind of salary over a period of "years" and was satisfied then the employer is a big part of the problem. Of course we have had that discussion here many times so let's not regurgitate it.
You have a reputation for being accusatory of other fan's opinions but your "realistic" opinion seems to be summarized by your hopeless view of our future when you stated "Maybe some day SJU will be a realistic destination for this level player but I sure as hell would not be holding my breath waiting for that day.".
Since you will obviously be dead when Mullin or any future coach has the credibility to recruit top high school talent it begs the question "why the fck are you even here"?
 
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I care more about how the sausage tastes and don't care how it gets made. The talent looks good to me, if the results follow on the court I'm good.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=287523]I care more about how the sausage tastes and don't care how it gets made. The talent looks good to me, if the results follow on the court I'm good.[/quote]

You should care how and by whom it is made. Sure, the taste may define your satisfaction but a true connoisseur wants to know how the pig was raised and treated, who did the slaughtering, and who assembled the ingredients. Is it full of sodium nitrites, sugar, food coloring and other preservatives? Most importantly, who made that sausage and where. I wouldn't want my sausage prepared by just anyone.;)

ien7s9i0ebfus.gif
[/quote]
 
[attachment=206]D4CAF8EC-D684-43FF-9F2D-249F8C0145E8.jpeg[/attachment]
 
[quote="we are sju" post=287499][quote="fordham96" post=287487][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=287484]Duke has joined the ranks of heavily investing in the 1 and done Player. Barrett is likekly in that category and Coack K’s resume is anong the All Time Best . I would say Barrett isn’t planning on being a Duke Student for 4 years but, hope he does get a degree from some where . As for St John’s , we have not yet established ourselves as a destination for the 1 and done player . But, Mullin brought in Ponds from HS and Simon, Clark and Heron from the transfer route . Those 3 are high level players , some with NBA potential . Wright , next Year was a top 100 player in HS . Mullin has brought on board some highly touted players which kind of knocks out the wearisome notion of him sitting on a Rocking Chair , doesnt it ? I think it does . And , make no mistake these Players know they will be Coached by 2 HOF legends . So, the talent upgrade from just this off season is Rocket Fueled at this point . As for Barrett , he was likely deciding from amongst Kentucky, Kansas , in addition to Duke . Maybe it would have been nice to know there was at least a dialogue with the Barretts but, like i said , we aren’t yet at the level the 1 and doners are seeking . I think Mullin will do that soon .[/quote]

Again you guys mix and match arguments and say things after the fact. You had no idea Clark and Simon were big time players because their productivity was not there when they were brought in from their previous schools.

You are claiming Wright is a iood signing because he was a top 100 player 2 years ago without mentioning he has been playing for 2 years with not great numbers.

In other words when it suits your argument you use productivity, when it doesn't suit your argument you bring up high school rankings.

Well guess what by using shifting standards I could justify just about any recruiting strategy.

As for Coach K using the one and done that is disingenuous as well. What does one and done have to do with relying on transfers? So there is only one way to get high school kids, go after one and done and if you can"t land them go the transfer route? Really? There is no in between? So before the one and done Coach K heavily relied on transfers? Really? I don't think so.

And the NBA potential comment is completely subjective, there is no one on SJU roster at this moment projected to be drafted. That could change. But Ponds was the best and Heron also made himself available and neither were projected to be drafted.

The other thing about the danger of transfers (besides the fact that they need to sit out a year) is the fact most of these occur AFTER the regular season. In other words if you are going to rely on this then you are for the most part waiting until the following spring to keep reloading your roster and doing it a bit blindly without knowing who will be available. As opposed to actual High School recruits who you have presumably been tracking and recruiting for months.[/quote]

Sometimes reading Fordham posts make me feel like Andy Dufresne trying to escape Shawshank. But he makes a good point. I actually agree with him about the primary recruiting of transfers strategy.[/quote] Time for a Battle Royale tale of the tape. We have like 6 or 7 guys to put in the ring :)
 
It’s funny we’re arguing over how it is we got this roster—which most of us are excited about IF Heron is eligible.
It looked dismal with an emptied roster in the Spring of 2015.
It looked bleak at times with guys jumping ship because of PT concerns, being recruited over, a player leaving in mid -season, or griping about ‘I want more touches’.
That we used the transfer option more than most programs and struggled to get HS recruits is a function of where the program was—not where we’re going.
If St. John’s starts winning again in 2018-19, NYC will be energized about the team and IMO top HS recruits will choose to play here.
At that point, the transfer strategy will be a tactic to fill in what the HS recruiting cycle didn’t provide—not the primary recruiting driver.
Let’s go Johnnies.
 
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Is the stork planning a visit to coach Matt's this fall?
 
From Matt A
Cant believe it’s been 5 years. We’ve gotten closer, we’ve experienced so many wonderful things together, we’ve faced our challenges, but most importantly we get to start a family together. Excited to bring in November a new addition to our family #HappyAnniversary
 
[quote="Knight" post=287903]From Matt A
Cant believe it’s been 5 years. We’ve gotten closer, we’ve experienced so many wonderful things together, we’ve faced our challenges, but most importantly we get to start a family together. Excited to bring in November a new addition to our family #HappyAnniversary[/quote]

Sure 'nuff sounds like freshly baked bread is on its way to Matt A and his wife.
Congrats to Matt A and his wife!
 
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