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montyaloofah
Active member
I agree something is going on with Lavin and it's not great. The messages being sent are not conducive to bringing a team together. If I were Rysheed or Sampson, i would start to question my loyalty in him. While D Lo looks like a reformed person and player this year, there must still be traces of his issues with Lavin from last year. Throughout this year, i looked for clues that the players genuinely like Lavin and enjoy playing for him. The way kids love playing for coach K or Tom Izzo. I don't see that and that's a problem. The year is almost half over and we are severely underperforming. It reminds me of the quote from "A Bronx Tale" where Sonny says there is nothing worse than wasted talent. That is what is happening with us. Start your best players, let them find a chemistry, and tighten up the rotations. It seems simple to everyone here but he's not doing it.
Al LoBalbo
LoBalbo was the architect of Lou's defensive schemes.
westchesterjoe
Active member
Raftery always loved to say, "St John's PLAYING Man to Man!" It was the way he pronounced it that made it special.
You could count on him to say it every game he broadcast.. Billy has always taken a kind approach to our Program. Even though he coached at Seton Hall. He's our BE icon and glad that Fox got him.
beast of the east
Active member
OK. So here's the thing. EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE is complaining how Lavin can't coach, how his assistants (including some pretty heralded guys) aren't doing their job or aren't allowed to, how the offensive sets stink, how we can't cover the three, how our defense is porous and susceptible to back doors all day long.
So imagine the scenario, where the staff is trying to teach these things, and only a few guys are working their butts off in practice to grasp it. Only a couple of guys keep an eye on the paint AS WELL AS the guy who floats out wide open to the three point stripe. Only a couple of guys are doubling down, AND making sure that wide open guy is met when he catches the ball so his shot isn't uncontested. Imagine that only a couple of guys keep setting picks, and rotating with the ball when the first set of the offense breaks down. Imagine you are the coaching staff and talking yourself blue in the face, doing it again and again and again, but the only guys really working and making everyone else look pathetic in practice are the walk on and the redshirt you just activated. So after weeks of this, the staff says, Let's see if our blue chip recruits get the message if we play the guys who understand that basketball is a team game, and that for it to work, everyone has to do their part on defense and offense. You know the walk on is just there to send a message to the others, so he is only going to play a few minutes.
If the schollies don't respond in practice to this, they can either opt to walk around campus like they are stars in this little world, or realize that if they are ever going to make a living at this game, they'd better start playing like top 100 players and a top 25 team.
My guess is that Lavin and company were sending a message. This may pay dividends as early as Saturday. If these knuckleheads don't respond, well say hello to an 8-10 or 6-12 conference record, which they would wholeheartedly deserve based on the erratic play.
Look a coach can do only so much. Anyone who has really played this game knows not to blame the coach for going 1 for 12 A good player finds his opportunity for scoring .Yes I am high on Jordan but his has along way to go to be NBA ready if in fact he can get to that level. He will need to shoot a whole lot better. .He has shown at this point he can not take over a game and put a team on his back for a win. He might have done that in HS. Do not get me wrong he is a good player but from a guard who was suppose to be maybe the best in the country Disappointed thus far. Can we blame coach for that too??
beast of the east
Active member
And the owner of a combover or toupee that would make Keady's former look amazing. Keady for his part looks so much better, no? He did sit on our bench well past his coaching prime, from the time he was 60 until he was 76. A lot of guys (Hubie Brown, Mike K, Bobby Knight) give him credit for being a great defensive coach.
jumbo_peanuts
Active member
I think that Lavin was just trying to send a message. I have seen Coach K on several occassions pull his starters and put in the walkons when he wasn't satisfied with the effort his team was giving. It is not an uncommon practice. And our walkon played 7 minutes...it's not like he played the majority of the game. None of us will ever know what goes on behind the scenes, or what is taking place at practices. Maybe the starters are slacking off in practice.
Coaches put their players in a position to win, but players ultimately have to execute. Player development happens over the summer, in the offseason, and not in the middle of a season. There is too much esle going on to worry about developing. And is it really Lavin's responsibility to be like, "hey dom, you really need to be shooting 500+ shots a day during the summer" or "hey Chris, why don't you go to the gym on saturday and work on any type of offense."
When do we start putting as much blame on the players as we do Lavin?
Coaches put their players in a position to win, but players ultimately have to execute. Player development happens over the summer, in the offseason, and not in the middle of a season. There is too much esle going on to worry about developing. And is it really Lavin's responsibility to be like, "hey dom, you really need to be shooting 500+ shots a day during the summer" or "hey Chris, why don't you go to the gym on saturday and work on any type of offense."
When do we start putting as much blame on the players as we do Lavin?
beast of the east
Active member
Why don't you let a little more season play out. Some great jockeys use the whip, some great ones never do. He is doing what he thought the situation called for. At some point these guys need a wakeup call. These are four pretty tough games to begin a season for certain. Just because he recruited these guys doesn't mean he has to put the ball in the hoop. There is no question he has recruited well, and has an above average coaching staff at the least. You don't start a walk on and a redshirt unless you are pretty damned frustrated, that's for sure. Plenty of time to wake up, but it had better be sooner than later.
well my take is this....and mind you im usually a very positive poster. D'Angelo stated that the coaching staff had them ready for this game, so they had them prepared mentally as well a game plan to attack GTown. So, why in the world would you mess with the mindset of the players minutes before the game. A mindset that you prepared all week for. Ive been very supportive of Lav. I love his recruiting abilities and the positive energy he brings to the program, but this move could be one of the worst moves to "motivate" a team that ive seen. You have a freshman that according to all the sports writers was coming into his own, you had DLo starting to heat up and take good shots. The team was starting to play better. Yes the Xavier game was a disaster, but a rebound win at GTown would of been a good fix. This team is in disarray and Coach Lav MUST fix it NOW !!!! This is not CYO, we know you dicipline players and run a tight ship...blah blah blah...but put these stud recruits out there and let them play. Call plays, set picks for Hooper. Have Jakaar and Jordan slash to the basket. Motivate Obekpa and Snachez to CRASH the boards. Utilize Sir Doms defense to shut down their hot player. There is skill on this team. The players need to have a players only meeting and start playing like they WANT to be in the top 25. There is arrogence about them like teams will roll over for them. Its not gonna happen fellas, the old Johnnie teams played with heart, tons of it. This team has tons of talent and no heart. Bronx tale quote is....."Nothing worse than wasted talent". There is still time. Those losses were against legit teams, and a huge win against Villanova will cure a lot of the holes....but a win is a MUST! No more talk, no more quick fix coaching, no more attitudes......just go out there, play as a team, and WIN !!!!!!!!!
Moose
Well-known member
All I'm saying for those who are saying what about blaming the player is he is the one who brought the parts in. It's seems as if he just brings in players and worries about fit later. I have my issues with the recruiting and how the classes were assembled. I think the fact that 7 kids in that first class committed sight unseen without him coaching a game is a little crazy and has come back to bite us in the ass. If that first class had more balance and less sizzle, expectations wouldn't have been as high for the #3 recruiting class etc.
Season is on line on Saturday. Win and maybe just maybe they take the next 2 BE games which are winnable and lo and behold we are 3-2 in conference. (But we all know this team can just as easily lose to Hall and Prov)
lol That`s a funny one Beast: "they can opt to walk around campus like they are stars in this little world."
Yeah stars on a garbage team. Hey they might get they might soon "GET IT" and turn it around, and become a good team. Hopefully they do.
As of right now though they are garbage. Imagine walking around campus with their chest out while saying "yeah I`m the man." lol
Yep you`re one of the men that just got your ass beat @ G-Town.
I can remember going around the block with several posters lasy year with my opinions on this team. At the end of the day, you cannot TEACH guys at this level to crash the boards, play defense, share the ball, etc. Those things are more a reflection of attitude than they are learned skills. This team just does not play hard and I have been saying it for a while now. Who gets their nose dirty? How many times do we get beat downcourt for easy baskets? When did we ever dominate even one game collecting the 50/50 balls or rebounding? I think there is a collective blame to go around here; I don't think either the coaches or the players are without fault. The scarier notion is that, as Moose and Paultzman have alluded to, who can be comfortable with the long term prospects. Forget winning and losing, what recruit can look at the style (or lack of style) of play and think their skill set will be improved playing here? I did not have the confidence many had that we would see a major turn around this year because we still have no shooting, but I did expect we would see a more mature, together, committed team. In fact, we seem to have regressed to the point where it is hard to say Lavin has not lost this team. I hope that is not the case but there is something amiss here, that much is obvious. I don't predict because I am always wrong (so I hope that record continues) but I would be shocked it the Nova game is not a repeat of Gtown.
Players came here and got 30 minutes off the bat because we had no other players in place. This was not Lavs doing. A player can have a handle on the situation and be grateful for the playing time, or actually think it was earned. Still being short players in year 2 Sampson got a ton of time last year. He won BE rookie award as a green as grass player. CO got a lot of pub as shot blocker supreme and he was. But what else as a player with a lot to learn. I'm not knocking any of the kids. I'm glad they came here, but did walk into an unusual situation. Getting 30 minutes a game, and playing in front of big crowds from the get go might make a player think he's where he needs to be. He's arrived. Not true. Ass busting time is just beginning, and maybe coach was late for addressing issues. Replacing entire roster can lead to problems down the road, and it has. Nice players and good kids can think they are hot stuff and they never sit. They play 30. Not saying thats how it went or Lav could not have handled things better, but I am open to seeing if he can get it fixed.