Lavin The Genius

R

Ray Morgan

Well-known member
As I read through the Notre Dame wrap up and the thread that followed, there seems to be a consensus that Coach Lavin is a borderline coach at best, a dolt at worst. At the same time, almost all are in agreement that this is the worst shooting team on the planet, filled with athletic under achievers with low BB IQ's. On top of all of this, the team has no center, no true PG, no bulk,and no toughness. Most of this is true. The team is at 28% from three, about 42% from the field, and 64% from the line. They can't shoot, get out rebounded almost every game, and have a variety of other faults. Taking everything into account, it's a wonder they have 16 wins, and have won almost half of their Big East games.

The only logical explanation is the coaching genius of coach Lavin and his staff. Who could win with this inept bunch? Not Coach K. Not Looie. Not Boeheim. One of the ex coaches doing the game pointed out that not a guy on the team had a clue how to get an offensive rebound. They just stared at the ball. You have to blame their high school, AAU and prep coaches for that. It can't be easy getting a team with so many faults to compete in the Big East. Combine that with the inexperience and the emotional immaturity, and the task seems overwhelming. I am impressed. All hail coach Lavin. Who else deserves the credit?
 
I am not sure if this is tongue in cheek or what, but if you saying that Lavin is to blame, I am saying that there is no one to blame. Lavin has this team at a much better place than where he found it and the trajectory is up, not down. The team and program have ambition and promise.

It will take a whole to get to where we want, consistently, but we are getting there. The deficiencies you point out are truly there. But this team has more pure talent than any in the past 10 plus years. It has to be harnessed and taught and molded, but they are athletic, if not great BB players. The group is flawed, but will be a year older, and better due to the additions. I think as time goes on, more BB players will be brought in, who compliment each other, and work as a team. This group was put together, miraculously, by Lavin and Co. in desperation and against all odds.

Am I happy with how the team performed this year? No. But I am optimistic.
 
Part of me is truly amazed that this team can beat anybody. It's like we are playing a different game than everyone else. A game with a different set of rules. The three point point rule applies only to the other guy. Teams get free throws, we get an adventure. Other teams have PG's that can hit the three and penetrate, we feature the dribble to nowhere. Other teams play a zone with no weaknesses, at least when defending us. Our zone has more holes than Swiss Cheese. I am also a believer that coaching at this point is overrated. You need players. You need guys that understand their roles, and know what their position entails. It is not a contradiction to have both suspect talent and bad coaching. But it is interesting that the team has, based on the product we see twice a week, a winning record. It just seems impossible to go 2-24 over the last two games from three. That isn't easy when you play basketball as much as these guys have since they were kids.
 
Nonsense.

Any coach that can draw up plays would turn guys like D'Angelo and Marco into more efficient shooters. They would draws plays that would free them up instead of this bail out brand of basketball you see us playing.

Would that translate into wins? Maybe a couple.

But I don't buy this excuse that no one can coach them.

As the Head coach, Lavin is supposed to break those habits that they learned from high/prep school and AAU.

Instead, he has them out there playing a glorified pickup game.

He has to be held accountable for that.
 
I don't criticize coaches as a rule. Under my old moniker most would remember me as a "Normie" although I felt he was entitled time to turn around the mess Jarvis left more than I thought he had earned it on his own. I feel the same way about Lavin, he needs time to build a program after having to fill an entire roster last year. Having said that, Lavin was not a coach coming into his first head coaching gig. He hired a very impressive staff (on paper). Obviously being out last year hurt, just as Harkless and Sanchez not being available did. But this is a very poorly coached team, no way around it. The continued problems with Harrison, Pointer's meltdown are all indications of an obvious lack of discipline, never mind the more obvious lack od discipline in the style of play (or lack of) exhibited on the court almost every game.
 
Maybe the highly recruited class of his was no that good after all, I mean it happens. My concern is that appears that Lavins recruiting prowess might have cooled down a bit.
 
Coach has always recruited "athletes". Look at the make-up of this team, with the exception of Marco and maybe Phil, they're all very athletic. Now shooting ability and maybe basketball court sense is a different story. I'm thinking this team needs another year to jell and I'm optimistic about the future. However it's on the staff to turn these guys into a coherent winning basketball team.
 
Maybe the highly recruited class of his was no that good after all, I mean it happens. My concern is that appears that Lavins recruiting prowess might have cooled down a bit.
Click to expand...

We have talent; but we lack basics. We lack a shooter to get the floor spread a little. Lavin's non-use of Bourgault is more than puzzling to me; personally I don't buy the defense argument at all. Neither do I buy the missed shot theory; any coach worth his salt knows you need to leave a shooter on the floor to get rythym and confidence. Greene is a borderline major D1 player IMO and yet he seems to have the freedom to dominate the ball and shoot at will. Our offense seems to consist of either very quick shots or prayers at the end of the shot clock. Our floor balance is abysmal, ridiculous; we give up a couple of leakout lay-ins with no defense back a game. We run the break like a grade school team, no spacing, no timing. There was one play against ND where we came down on a 4 on 1 with Balamou and another player running almost side by side down the right wing. By the time Balamou was passed the ball he was running out of control and wound up too far under the basket to even get a shot off. These are basics, and we don't seem to improve. We are the same helter skelter team we were last year. Some of it is on the players no doubt but the coaches need to step up big time and figure this out IMO.
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I disagree wholeheartedly; Harrison deserved to be suspended and frankly, it probably should have happened earlier. In case you didn't notice, there were interim disciplinary actions taken several times, starting from BEFORE the season even began and they accomplished nothing, Harrison's behavior got worse, not better. As for Pointer, spin it any way you want, he was dead wrong. Getting bombed and shooting poorly is no excuse for what he did; frustration is part of life and so is failure, you learn to deal with them, not punch your way out. It seemed he was provoked but no one knows what starts something like that except the people involved. You don't throw punches unless you are being attacked period. Pointer has been around enough to know that, you act like a thug, you get labeled a thug, that's the way it works. Finally, I understand a player losing it but will not excuse it, and certainly a significant portion of the blame for the incident falls on the coaches, it doesn't take a genius to know Pointer had no business being on the court at that time of the game.
 
For an entire season for having an attitude? Never seen it. Lav hurt the entire team. And then it is on Lavin for not taking care of it earlier and yes I did notice him not starting an exhibition game and being pulled for 5 minutes in the Uconn game. I have been to 90% of every home game since 1970's . Seen just about every game this team has played. Threw away the whole seaon (which may not amounted to much but still). All at the expense of the players and and fans.

And yes Dom should not have thrown a punch but my point was he was not hit first. The frustration that built up was because we were undermaned and if handled correctly it could have been avoided. The ND kid hit Dom first if you saw the replay. He was prob on his way to being taken out. ND had their starters in right to that point running up the score and trying to emabarass SJU
 
I dont know why you say we have no center. I'm perfectly happy with Obepka manning the middle. The problem as I see it is in the backcourt. He have Pointer fumbling the ball up the court on half our possesions for God's sake. There's so many good backcourt combos in the league and then there's ours. If we had Napier and Boatwright or Council and Cotton this team is dancing, Geez I'd even take Mack and Seagaars. Sorry but Branch and Greene are backup players
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I disagree wholeheartedly; Harrison deserved to be suspended and frankly, it probably should have happened earlier. In case you didn't notice, there were interim disciplinary actions taken several times, starting from BEFORE the season even began and they accomplished nothing, Harrison's behavior got worse, not better. As for Pointer, spin it any way you want, he was dead wrong. Getting bombed and shooting poorly is no excuse for what he did; frustration is part of life and so is failure, you learn to deal with them, not punch your way out. It seemed he was provoked but no one knows what starts something like that except the people involved. You don't throw punches unless you are being attacked period. Pointer has been around enough to know that, you act like a thug, you get labeled a thug, that's the way it works. Finally, I understand a player losing it but will not excuse it, and certainly a significant portion of the blame for the incident falls on the coaches, it doesn't take a genius to know Pointer had no business being on the court at that time of the game.
Click to expand...

Lest we forget Dunlap had the same group of kids last year under even more stressful circumstances and they competed admirably without a peep. It's the old what's different about this picture story. I saw every game and never saw one instance of behavior from Harrison that would have produced the coaches' reaction. I can only assume things happened behind closed doors and Lavin has the advantages of secrecy and rank in this case. Then how do you explain what happened at Notre Dame? Saint Johns is once again a laughingstock with overtones of violence this time. I believe most other coaches would find themselves on the carpet after such a game but Lavin has been untouchable from the beginning. Like I said though we do have Cunlap to compare him with and right now Lavs ain't looking too good to me. Is Harrington alive through all this or is he passing out Koolaid at Communion?
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I disagree wholeheartedly; Harrison deserved to be suspended and frankly, it probably should have happened earlier. In case you didn't notice, there were interim disciplinary actions taken several times, starting from BEFORE the season even began and they accomplished nothing, Harrison's behavior got worse, not better. As for Pointer, spin it any way you want, he was dead wrong. Getting bombed and shooting poorly is no excuse for what he did; frustration is part of life and so is failure, you learn to deal with them, not punch your way out. It seemed he was provoked but no one knows what starts something like that except the people involved. You don't throw punches unless you are being attacked period. Pointer has been around enough to know that, you act like a thug, you get labeled a thug, that's the way it works. Finally, I understand a player losing it but will not excuse it, and certainly a significant portion of the blame for the incident falls on the coaches, it doesn't take a genius to know Pointer had no business being on the court at that time of the game.
Click to expand...

Lest we forget Dunlap had the same group of kids last year under even more stressful circumstances and they competed admirably without a peep. It's the old what's different about this picture story. I saw every game and never saw one instance of behavior from Harrison that would have produced the coaches' reaction. I can only assume things happened behind closed doors and Lavin has the advantages of secrecy and rank in this case. Then how do you explain what happened at Notre Dame? Saint Johns is once again a laughingstock with overtones of violence this time. I believe most other coaches would find themselves on the carpet after such a game but Lavin has been untouchable from the beginning. Like I said though we do have Cunlap to compare him with and right now Lavs ain't looking too good to me. Is Harrington alive through all this or is he passing out Koolaid at Communion?
Click to expand...

what are yopu talking about. Lindsey left the team because he didnt get along with Dunlap and then Stith left at the end of the year. So the "same team" is 4 freshmen that are now Sophs plus 6 new players.
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, suspending the best player for the rest of the season was ridiculous, having Dom in the game after he already slapped a ND player in the face was ridiculous....but my Q is this...Why didnt Lav suspend Dom for the rest of the season? Starting a fight on national TV isn't worse than whatever it was that Harrison did to get suspended for the rest of the season? I don't follow that logic at all.
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, suspending the best player for the rest of the season was ridiculous, having Dom in the game after he already slapped a ND player in the face was ridiculous....but my Q is this...Why didnt Lav suspend Dom for the rest of the season? Starting a fight on national TV isn't worse than whatever it was that Harrison did to get suspended for the rest of the season? I don't follow that logic at all.
Click to expand...

Because Dom didn't start the fight. He retaliated from being slapped in the face.

But ND will play the victim card.
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, suspending the best player for the rest of the season was ridiculous, having Dom in the game after he already slapped a ND player in the face was ridiculous....but my Q is this...Why didnt Lav suspend Dom for the rest of the season? Starting a fight on national TV isn't worse than whatever it was that Harrison did to get suspended for the rest of the season? I don't follow that logic at all.
Click to expand...

Because Dom didn't start the fight. He retaliated from being slapped in the face.

But ND will play the victim card.
Click to expand...

He may not have started the fight, but he did throw punches and got ejected after getting a flagarant earlier-- so Lav is ok with that-- but not ok with Harrison shaking his head and having "poor body language" on the court. Please.
 
When was the last time a coach or school suspended a player, any player for more than a game? Not to mention their leading scorer for anything other than some sort of NCAA/academic/drugs infraction? So I read the Lenn Robins article in the post today. First off he is not 100% correct (Dom did throw the first official punch but the kid from ND clearly got to Dom first and hit him in the head). He is making us out to be full on thugs which we are not. Doms reaction is one of frustration after getting bombed for 44 pts and shooting 18% in the second half and I really cant blame him when considering all the factors. All of this could have been avoided if our coach didnt think the overall team would be better served keeping our leading scorer out for 4+ games. Something that is unprecedented. Now many alum including myself have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours that were invested in this program. Not to mention the kids left on the team who had a dream of potentially making a late season run. Not only is that not happening the frustration of playing without him has given the program another black eye. Thanks coach I hope your teaching moment was worth it.
Click to expand...

I disagree wholeheartedly; Harrison deserved to be suspended and frankly, it probably should have happened earlier. In case you didn't notice, there were interim disciplinary actions taken several times, starting from BEFORE the season even began and they accomplished nothing, Harrison's behavior got worse, not better. As for Pointer, spin it any way you want, he was dead wrong. Getting bombed and shooting poorly is no excuse for what he did; frustration is part of life and so is failure, you learn to deal with them, not punch your way out. It seemed he was provoked but no one knows what starts something like that except the people involved. You don't throw punches unless you are being attacked period. Pointer has been around enough to know that, you act like a thug, you get labeled a thug, that's the way it works. Finally, I understand a player losing it but will not excuse it, and certainly a significant portion of the blame for the incident falls on the coaches, it doesn't take a genius to know Pointer had no business being on the court at that time of the game.
Click to expand...

Lest we forget Dunlap had the same group of kids last year under even more stressful circumstances and they competed admirably without a peep. It's the old what's different about this picture story. I saw every game and never saw one instance of behavior from Harrison that would have produced the coaches' reaction. I can only assume things happened behind closed doors and Lavin has the advantages of secrecy and rank in this case. Then how do you explain what happened at Notre Dame? Saint Johns is once again a laughingstock with overtones of violence this time. I believe most other coaches would find themselves on the carpet after such a game but Lavin has been untouchable from the beginning. Like I said though we do have Cunlap to compare him with and right now Lavs ain't looking too good to me. Is Harrington alive through all this or is he passing out Koolaid at Communion?
Click to expand...

Oh silly Bobre, maybe you went to get a hot dog, or to the bathroom at the time, and missed a few of these moments from last season.

1. Lindsy and Stith quit on the team last year. Correct, not technically a suspension, but I am going to take a wild guess they didn't leave happily to pursue other interests.

2. Harrison's temper was obvious last year as well. He didn't just decide to lose his cool this year because Dunlap left.

As far as this season goes:

1. "SJU is a laughingstock" as you say, because the suspension and fight just happened. Time heals all wounds, even the self inflicted one. Partly because because some other stupid thing will come up in college hoops to take the place of this stupid one. Also, ND gets some bad publicity here as well for "the overtones of violence".

2. Can I explain what happened at ND? Well two guys started trash talking, the ND kid swung his elbow, and Pointer showed no self control a threw a punch. Yes he should have know better. But getting an elbow at the end of a game you are getting embarassed shows something about the other team as well. There are not too many places more sanctimonious than ND.

3. Lavin has been getting heat. Look at the papers, talking about this. Lavin has been getting more criticism lately than Roberts did.

4. While there are 1,001 things we can condemn Fr. Harrington over, not thinking of firing Lavin a year after recovering from cancer and the same year his father passed away is not one of them. This is despite your affirmation Lavin should have sucked up the passing of his dad and just coached. By the way, if you have kids I hope they have more respect for life and death than you do. For your sake.

5. Finally, losing Dunlap was enormous. Now we know why Lavin waited so long for him to make his decision to become an assistant here. Dunlap is a brilliant coach. I loved him here, and I hated to see him go. Lavin should shake the staff up this off season and hire another Dunlap, so he and Childs can work on the recruiting.

Now continue watching every minute of this season, minus the bathroom breaks of course.
 
For an entire season for having an attitude? Never seen it. Lav hurt the entire team. And then it is on Lavin for not taking care of it earlier and yes I did notice him not starting an exhibition game and being pulled for 5 minutes in the Uconn game. I have been to 90% of every home game since 1970's . Seen just about every game this team has played. Threw away the whole seaon (which may not amounted to much but still). All at the expense of the players and and fans.

And yes Dom should not have thrown a punch but my point was he was not hit first. The frustration that built up was because we were undermaned and if handled correctly it could have been avoided. The ND kid hit Dom first if you saw the replay. He was prob on his way to being taken out. ND had their starters in right to that point running up the score and trying to emabarass SJU
Click to expand...

Since when is 4 games an entire season? Regardless, I will criticize Lavin for what I think he is doing wrong but suspending Harrison is not one of them. And to think Harrison's presence would have changed either of the games against Providence or ND is wishful thinking at best. Bottom line the suspension was well earned and overdue IMO.
 
For an entire season for having an attitude? Never seen it. Lav hurt the entire team. And then it is on Lavin for not taking care of it earlier and yes I did notice him not starting an exhibition game and being pulled for 5 minutes in the Uconn game. I have been to 90% of every home game since 1970's . Seen just about every game this team has played. Threw away the whole seaon (which may not amounted to much but still). All at the expense of the players and and fans.

And yes Dom should not have thrown a punch but my point was he was not hit first. The frustration that built up was because we were undermaned and if handled correctly it could have been avoided. The ND kid hit Dom first if you saw the replay. He was prob on his way to being taken out. ND had their starters in right to that point running up the score and trying to emabarass SJU
Click to expand...

Since when is 4 games an entire season? Regardless, I will criticize Lavin for what I think he is doing wrong but suspending Harrison is not one of them. And to think Harrison's presence would have changed either of the games against Providence or ND is wishful thinking at best. Bottom line the suspension was well earned and overdue IMO.
Click to expand...

Pointer slapped a guy in the head then punched another player-- you don't think that warrants Lav to suspend him outside of the 1 game ban from the NCAA?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top