Johnnies Season Preview Piece

[quote="Moose" post=400809][quote="Mike Zaun" post=400802]Also incorrectly said WVU was ranked when we beat them. They weren't. Arizona was. But both were top 25 teams at some points of the season.

Regarding CMA...it doesn't have to be so extreme from one side to the other IMO. I think he's a good coach but he clearly needs to prove himself here still and he needs to show he can recruit well enough to hang around as a regular top half Big East team. So far that has not happened. But I'm hopeful. So many want to crown our coaches before they have really done much. It looks like we are certainly moving in the right direction, but let's see how we do this year. The pieces are in place to have a good year if not sneak up on a few other teams and finish 5-6. But we don't know if Posh makes instant impact along with Cole. We will need them to if we want to overachieve.[/quote]

I just used 'the google' and it shows me WVU was #24 when SJU beat them.
Thanks for playing. Be sure to tip your waitress[/quote]

Turns out that was in fact, Russian misinformation. Look herehttps://redstormsports.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2019-20

I believe what happened was Zona was ranked on both ESPN Coaches Poll and also AP. WVU was only ranked on ESPN Coaches Poll and not the AP. I believe when the number appears next to your name, it's the AP poll.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400828][quote="Moose" post=400809][quote="Mike Zaun" post=400802]Also incorrectly said WVU was ranked when we beat them. They weren't. Arizona was. But both were top 25 teams at some points of the season.

Regarding CMA...it doesn't have to be so extreme from one side to the other IMO. I think he's a good coach but he clearly needs to prove himself here still and he needs to show he can recruit well enough to hang around as a regular top half Big East team. So far that has not happened. But I'm hopeful. So many want to crown our coaches before they have really done much. It looks like we are certainly moving in the right direction, but let's see how we do this year. The pieces are in place to have a good year if not sneak up on a few other teams and finish 5-6. But we don't know if Posh makes instant impact along with Cole. We will need them to if we want to overachieve.[/quote]

I just used 'the google' and it shows me WVU was #24 when SJU beat them.
Thanks for playing. Be sure to tip your waitress[/quote]

Turns out that was in fact, Russian misinformation. Look herehttps://redstormsports.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2019-20

I believe what happened was Zona was ranked on both ESPN Coaches Poll and also AP. WVU was only ranked on ESPN Coaches Poll and not the AP. I believe when the number appears next to your name, it's the AP poll.[/quote]

I trust the coaches. They know better than newspaper hacks.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400776][quote="redken" post=400772]Didn't know Mike Anderson has to "prove himself."[/quote]

Really? I like CMA and he showed solid potential in year 1...but we went 5-13 in conference play and were just picked 9th by coaches. I think we will be better than that, but there's a lot more proving to do. If he already made tourneys on the reg, won a game in them, and had us ranked on and off then I'd agree with you. I know you will probably point to his time at other schools, but different coaches perform differently at other schools. Doing well at 1 does not guarantee doing well at another, especially with worse resources. He still has not gotten a consensus 4 star recruit and that continues if Cuffe Jr. does not come here. He has shown he can do well here, but we have not done anything that remarkable...just a solid year where we were not pushovers. But still very poor conference performance though that was expected. I think if CMA is half the coach many on here say he is, we should be a 18+ win team and either on bubble or penciled into the NIT. Anything worse than that with this depth will be concerning. This is not a super young team either so hopefully we don't hear that if we start off poorly. We have not even made a tourney appearance yet under him. Many, many schools do that on a regular basis and it's not seen as that special...more of a given. I think CMA has the talent to be on bubble or better if he's a legit coach.[/quote]
I'll counter with another "Really"? 18 Years, 386-215, 642 W-L%, aside from one year in the Big East, mostly in the SEC and the Big 12. Sorry, Mike, but I don't think he has anything to prove about his ability to coach.
 
Very excited for the season and love our depth this year, but if we do want to make noise we have to close out games better than we did a year ago and learn how to win away from home. May not matter this year because of no or limited fans, but they were 1-8 on the road last year, has to improve.
 
He doesn't have to prove that he has the ability to be a good coach. He has proven that. But he needs to prove he can be a good coach HERE...where we don't have Mizzou or Arkansas money. Where we don't have facilities. Where we don't have a built in fan section with thousands of students. Very, very different task trying to turn around a dormant program for the better part of 20 yrs with little resources on a non-traditional campus known for commuters still vs. trying to turn around a big public football school with a huge built in fanbase, tons of donors, amazing facilities, endless $, resources, etc. Like it or not, those are the facts he has to deal with. I think he can do it...but we've seen so many try and fail that you can't be shocked if it doesn't work out either. Any of us would sign up for 10 years of CMA right now if it meant regular NCAA's and top half Big East most years. But this is a very tough conference, so even a good coach can fail. I hope he succeeds here and we finally have a coach for a long time.
 
[quote="Logen" post=400805][quote="Mike Zaun" post=400776][quote="redken" post=400772]Didn't know Mike Anderson has to "prove himself."[/quote]

We have not even made a tourney appearance yet under him.[/quote]


Anderson is not the cause of yours and others impatience and the ridiculously premature criticism by you and others is comical. Give the man a chance at least.[/quote]

Good to see you're back.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400843]He doesn't have to prove that he has the ability to be a good coach. He has proven that. But he needs to prove he can be a good coach HERE...where we don't have Mizzou or Arkansas money. Where we don't have facilities. Where we don't have a built in fan section with thousands of students. Very, very different task trying to turn around a dormant program for the better part of 20 yrs with little resources on a non-traditional campus known for commuters still vs. trying to turn around a big public football school with a huge built in fanbase, tons of donors, amazing facilities, endless $, resources, etc. Like it or not, those are the facts he has to deal with. I think he can do it...but we've seen so many try and fail that you can't be shocked if it doesn't work out either. Any of us would sign up for 10 years of CMA right now if it meant regular NCAA's and top half Big East most years. But this is a very tough conference, so even a good coach can fail. I hope he succeeds here and we finally have a coach for a long time.[/quote]

I was as skeptical as anyone when CMA was hired, and there are certainly no guarantees that he is the long term answer, but based on what we've seen in his track record and in his time here, doesn't he deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point? I mean, the only real complaint people have about him is in his recruiting, And frankly, if he is going to change the culture here, then he's going to have to do it with the right kinds of kids. That may mean it'll take us a little longer to have a winning program, but that's fine by me. Oftentimes you've got to sacrifice the short term for the long term. With the exception of Norm, every single one of our ex coaches since LC had some immediate recruiting success, and every single one of those coaches came and went pretty quickly. Let's give CMA a chance to build back this program his own way, with the right kinds of kids, and if that takes a tad bit longer then some would like, I believe it will be well worth the wait.
 
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Just hate reading all this BS...SJU is the best program in the best city in the Country...great tradition...great fans...great campus...great coach...really tired of all the negative press we get from our own so called fans...Go St Johns!!
 
[quote="johnny redman" post=400879]Just hate reading all this BS...SJU is the best program in the best city in the Country...great tradition...great fans...great campus...great coach...really tired of all the negative press we get from our own so called fans...Go St Johns!![/quote]
Are you as equally tired of the by and large negative results we have gotten over lo these last 20 years? :unsure:
 
[quote="johnny redman" post=400879]Just hate reading all this BS...SJU is the best program in the best city in the Country...great tradition...great fans...great campus...great coach...really tired of all the negative press we get from our own so called fans...Go St Johns!![/quote]

You lost me at great campus. :whistle:
 
[quote="bamafan" post=400880][quote="johnny redman" post=400879]Just hate reading all this BS...SJU is the best program in the best city in the Country...great tradition...great fans...great campus...great coach...really tired of all the negative press we get from our own so called fans...Go St Johns!![/quote]
Are you as equally tired of the by and large negative results we have gotten over lo these last 20 years? :unsure:[/quote]

Well I am more than equally tired of reading criticism of a life long winning coach who inherited that 20 year legacy and is constantly being criticized after barely being here long enough to get his feet wet. Zaun is the great example, criticizing Anderson’s recruiting like a broken record but then insisting he has to “prove” himself by winning this year. Talk about hypocrisy.
Every coach needs a chance to prove or disprove themselves over time and it has been one bad hire after another that has brought us here, not CMA. Coaches who were either in over their heads (Mahoney, Roberts) too arrogant in their own egos (Fraschilla, Jarvis) or just too damn lazy to build a real program (Lavin, Mullin). Anderson is absolutely NONE of those things but GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE!! Forget his record preSJU, fine, but he has been nothing but a hard working, classy, caring coach and man AT SJU up to this point and that is a pretty good starting point.
Now, aren’t you glad I’m posting again??
 
I don't often defend Zaun, but I think his point is really something that every coach knows - that you are only as good as your current performance indicates. CMA had nothing to prove at Arkansas either, but after making the NCAA's in 3 of the prior 4 seasons, he was fired after an 18-16 campaign. Coaches have to win, period.

Lavin and Mullin didn't get fired because they were lazy. Roberts and Mahoney didn't get fired because they were over their heads - Mahoney was even voted Big East coach of the year. Jarvis didn't get fired because he was arrogant. They all were fired because they didn't win.

At $2.5 million, there IS an urgency for CMA to build a program that hovers in the top 5 of the Big East before his current contract expires. $2.5 million is by far the most we've paid a coach, and we did that for a coach to build a winning program. If he does that. he will be here as long as he wishes. If not, well, here we go again.

That being said, year 2 is of course way too early to start being overly negative of the roster or results. But let's not mistake that each of us who weighs in has already begun critiquing CMA. That's fair game, and nearly all of us have been impressed with what he's done so far with a limited roster last year, and bringing what appears to be a solid strategy to recruiting. So it's entirely fair to say that while we've assessed him to have done a very good job so far. However, it's entirely rational to be aware that the next hurdles for him are to have a better season this year than year one, and to be successful over the next year in bringing in top of the division better talent.

Our job? Support the team and program as best each of us can. You can't build a winning program with fairy dust.
 
I don't often defend Zaun, but I think his point is really something that every coach knows - that you are only as good as your current performance indicates. CMA had nothing to prove at Arkansas either, but after making the NCAA's in 3 of the prior 4 seasons, he was fired after an 18-16 campaign. Coaches have to win, period.

Lavin and Mullin didn't get fired because they were lazy. Roberts and Mahoney didn't get fired because they were over their heads - Mahoney was even voted Big East coach of the year. Jarvis didn't get fired because he was arrogant. They all were fired because they didn't win.

At $2.5 million, there IS an urgency for CMA to build a program that hovers in the top 5 of the Big East before his current contract expires. $2.5 million is by far the most we've paid a coach, and we did that for a coach to build a winning program. If he does that. he will be here as long as he wishes. If not, well, here we go again.

That being said, year 2 is of course way too early to start being overly negative of the roster or results. But let's not mistake that each of us who weighs in has already begun critiquing CMA. That's fair game, and nearly all of us have been impressed with what he's done so far with a limited roster last year, and bringing what appears to be a solid strategy to recruiting. So it's entirely fair to say that while we've assessed him to have done a very good job so far. However, it's entirely rational to be aware that the next hurdles for him are to have a better season this year than year one, and to be successful over the next year in bringing in top of the division better talent.

Our job? Support the team and program as best each of us can. You can't build a winning program with fairy dust.
 
Lol...I don't understand how even the slightest question in terms of recruiting (objectively poor if you believe the rankings to a degree though some have overperformed thus far) or anything short of "we are winning a natty and CMA is coach K" becomes "unfair criticism". He has shown some positive signs from year 1...but again recruiting poorly does not work out more times than not at this level. This year will tell us a lot in terms of being able to consistently identify underrated recruits or not. If 2 of Posh, Cole, Moore are the real deal, then we should be a bubble team IMO which would be a good season.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400886]Lol...I don't understand how even the slightest question in terms of recruiting (objectively poor if you believe the rankings to a degree though some have overperformed thus far) or anything short of "we are winning a natty and CMA is coach K" becomes "unfair criticism". He has shown some positive signs from year 1...but again recruiting poorly does not work out more times than not at this level. This year will tell us a lot in terms of being able to consistently identify underrated recruits or not. If 2 of Posh, Cole, Moore are the real deal, then we should be a bubble team IMO which would be a good season.[/quote]

Speaking of Coach K, many people forget he was on the hot seat and on the verge of being fired after his third year at Duke. His first three season records at Duke were 17-13, 10-17 and 11-17 for an overall record of 38-47 (winning percentage of .447). As things turned out, I'm sure that the Duke loyalists are thrilled that the administration didn't pull the trigger at that time.

CMA has only completed one year at St John's and did as well as could have been expected. His first full recruiting class will be on the court for the first time this season. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is trying hard to do things the right way. I hope that our fans will give him a fair chance (at least three seasons) before deciding whether or not he is the real deal. I, for one, am very pleased with the direction that our program is heading on his watch and look forward to seeing continued growth and improvement.
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=400887][quote="Mike Zaun" post=400886]Lol...I don't understand how even the slightest question in terms of recruiting (objectively poor if you believe the rankings to a degree though some have overperformed thus far) or anything short of "we are winning a natty and CMA is coach K" becomes "unfair criticism". He has shown some positive signs from year 1...but again recruiting poorly does not work out more times than not at this level. This year will tell us a lot in terms of being able to consistently identify underrated recruits or not. If 2 of Posh, Cole, Moore are the real deal, then we should be a bubble team IMO which would be a good season.[/quote]

Speaking of Coach K, many people forget he was on the hot seat and on the verge of being fired after his third year at Duke. His first three season records at Duke were 17-13, 10-17 and 11-17 for an overall record of 38-47 (winning percentage of .447). As things turned out, I'm sure that the Duke loyalists are thrilled that the administration didn't pull the trigger at that time.

CMA has only completed one year at St John's and did as well as could have been expected. His first full recruiting class will be on the court for the first time this season. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is trying hard to do things the right way. I hope that our fans will give him a fair chance (at least three seasons) before deciding whether or not he is the real deal. I, for one, am very pleased with the direction that our program is heading on his watch and look forward to seeing continued growth and improvement.[/quote]

Speaking of Coach K, there is a very good article in the Athletic (its a paid site although in the earlier days they gave you an option that you could share some of their stories with others) regarding him almost leaving Duke earlier this Century to take the Laker's job. Mike Cragg is interviewed and is quoted in the article.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400886]Lol...I don't understand how even the slightest question in terms of recruiting (objectively poor if you believe the rankings to a degree though some have overperformed thus far) or anything short of "we are winning a natty and CMA is coach K" becomes "unfair criticism". He has shown some positive signs from year 1...but again recruiting poorly does not work out more times than not at this level. This year will tell us a lot in terms of being able to consistently identify underrated recruits or not. If 2 of Posh, Cole, Moore are the real deal, then we should be a bubble team IMO which would be a good season.[/quote]

Oh, nonsense. You are not posting the "slightest question" , you are relentless, post after post, thread after thread. My opinion, you are way premature, you assume "poor recruiting" without having seen any of the players play, and then caveat it with "more times than not". My point is just to give the man a fair chance, not criticize a proven professional with a very good, consistent track record before he even has had a fair chance, yea or nay.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=400883]I don't often defend Zaun, but I think his point is really something that every coach knows - that you are only as good as your current performance indicates. CMA had nothing to prove at Arkansas either, but after making the NCAA's in 3 of the prior 4 seasons, he was fired after an 18-16 campaign. Coaches have to win, period.

Lavin and Mullin didn't get fired because they were lazy. Roberts and Mahoney didn't get fired because they were over their heads - Mahoney was even voted Big East coach of the year. Jarvis didn't get fired because he was arrogant. They all were fired because they didn't win.

At $2.5 million, there IS an urgency for CMA to build a program that hovers in the top 5 of the Big East before his current contract expires. $2.5 million is by far the most we've paid a coach, and we did that for a coach to build a winning program. If he does that. he will be here as long as he wishes. If not, well, here we go again.

That being said, year 2 is of course way too early to start being overly negative of the roster or results. But let's not mistake that each of us who weighs in has already begun critiquing CMA. That's fair game, and nearly all of us have been impressed with what he's done so far with a limited roster last year, and bringing what appears to be a solid strategy to recruiting. So it's entirely fair to say that while we've assessed him to have done a very good job so far. However, it's entirely rational to be aware that the next hurdles for him are to have a better season this year than year one, and to be successful over the next year in bringing in top of the division better talent.

Our job? Support the team and program as best each of us can. You can't build a winning program with fairy dust.[/quote]

Beast we all know there was a new AD at Arkansas and that was why CMA was let go, and I am glad he was let go because their loss is our gain.
And yes both Lavin and Mullin were fired because they were lazy or disinterested or unmotivated or whatever. If you recall in each of their last seasons we went to the big dance. So it had nothing to do with winning.
Mahoney and Roberts were and still are wonderful people but both were in over their head from day 1. Yes Brian caught lightning in a bottle his first season and did and amazing job and even with 4 very good or great recruiting classes he could not win.Fran was let go after taking us to the big dance and Jarvis was dismissed after an NIT championship. In each of their cases they were winning but were dismissed because of their attitudes.
As for salary when Brian was hired he was paid more than Lou ever got. Jarvis at 50% higher than Mahoney and FF to start was the highest paid coach ever. Roberts was bargain basement, we got what we paid for. Lavin at $2million was grossly overpaid for what he delivered and clearly broke the bank for SJU at that time. Mullin at $2 million was also grossly overpaid as a first time coach. CMA at $2.5 million , while once again the highest paid coach ever at SJU , like Mahoney, then FF, then Jarvis , then Lavin is an absolute steal compared to Lavin and Mullin. He is 10 times the coach and will be a better recruiter at SJU when all is said and done.
 
I don’t disagree with Zaun that Anderson needs to land some studs. We are recruiting some under-ranked kids that are pretty talented. We still need to do better and in that respect I believe fans should have some expectations. It’s not wrong and Zaun isn’t incorrect. If we can win this way then fine, but agree we have a lot of ground to make up to be a great team.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=400920]I don’t disagree with Zaun that Anderson needs to land some studs. We are recruiting some under-ranked kids that are pretty talented. We still need to do better and in that respect I believe fans should have some expectations. It’s not wrong and Zaun isn’t incorrect. If we can win this way then fine, but agree we have a lot of ground to make up to be a great team.[/quote]

“a great team” ??? Our record over the last 20 years is 310-322, with a conference record of 128-202, comprised of 4 seasons with winning conference records. We have been to the tournament 4 times with 2 tournament wins over that period. We have been through scandal, ineligible players, and incompetent coaches.
So we finally get a true professional to lead the program, hired after the end of the recruiting cycle his first year and criticism leading into his second year because he hasn’t recruited any “studs” is warranted or has merit? What planet are you guys living on? CMA might never recruit the “studs” you guys like to drool over and we might never become “a great team” again but I for one will be happy to start with a hard working, team oriented group of young men that I can root for and see how things evolve. Every baby I’ve ever known had to learn to walk before they could run.
 
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