Is There One Recruit?

[redfazed]

I actually think we are already very close to having enough talent-- we just beat Butler and we've got some good pieces coming in. But there is one recruit who can make a significant impact immediately and that's an experienced assistant coach who can help Mullin with the X and O's and in-game strategy. I didn't realize until recently that Greg St Jean was only 26 years old and I almost fell off my chair.

An experienced xo guy could help Mullin in so many ways. For example, as DocButler mentioned on the other thread, we need to be playing some zone, something that is not easy to learn or teach and we need someone who's actually taught it to a group of college players. I nominate Mike Rice. He's coaching HS up the road and I am assuming can be brought on board relatively cheaply.

 

[paultzman]

The two transfers will probably be a big help, but let's wait until after season to see what the roster looks like. Every team suffers from kids departing or never getting here.

Hopefully a solid guard core is on board in some variation. Shoring up the interior is Matt's biggest challenge. Hopefully Brown gets here, but as a Frosh, don't expect him to dominate. If he doesn't pan out, as noted before, Juco, fifth year transfer & getting a 17 kid like Walker are obvious options.

Whatever the roster looks like, improving the defense seems a huge area of need as many have noted.

 

[lawmanfan]

You guys gotta chill out. The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

Anyway, this approach devalues the role of the big man. Yes we need one to add to what we have, but that's about all.

Right now we are just a little too thin up front and we don't have quite enough depth or quite enough size at the guard position to make it all work. Adding Clark and Simon helps those issues, a year of development from Freudenberg helps up front.

This is just not the disaster some are making it out to be. Hopefully we will beat Georgetown tonight (the Princeton offense will be a nice test for our defense) and you can swing back the other way or step off the ledge or whatever.

 

[cappy105]

imo 3 players we can not lose are Ponds, LoVett, and Owens. Ponds and LoVett have such a bright future and are being recognized nationwide as an electric backcourt. Owens has been a nice surprise and we are already too thin up front and can't lose him. He could bulk up a little and would be more of a force. Would of been nice if Obekpa didn't go off deep end was here to team up with Owens and Yakwe defensively. At least vs GTown.

 

[paultzman]

imo 3 players we can not lose are Ponds, LoVett, and Owens. Ponds and LoVett have such a bright future and are being recognized nationwide as an electric backcourt. Owens has been a nice surprise and we are already too thin up front and can't lose him. He could bulk up a little and would be more of a force. Would of been nice if Obekpa didn't go off deep end was here to team up with Owens and Yakwe defensively. At least vs GTown.

Obekpa played three years & last season would have been his last.

 

[cappy105]

thought he'd be here for this year , my bad

 

[MainMan]

You guys gotta chill out. The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

Anyway, this approach devalues the role of the big man. Yes we need one to add to what we have, but that's about all.

Nellie ball!

 

[fun]

The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

I don't know if three guards is the plan although it is for the time being the necessity. I suspect if we had the personnel Ahmed would be the three in a traditional line up with two bigs. It's not like Sima was run out of town because he didn't fit in: on the contrary he was given every opportunity to succeed.

 

[logen]

Not a revelation but until we bring in players who understand that defense is more important than offense, we are hurting. We beat Butler because we pretty much played 40 minutes of intense, committed defense which kept us in the game to have a chance at the end. Since then defense has become an afterthought again and that includes Lovett and Ponds. Scoring points are great and both are terrific offensive players, but neither are killing it on the other end. I can see giving up points but I don't really see the "dig in effort" from anyone on this team on the defensive end. Schemes are fine but if we can't get effort at least when playing man and personal pride is involved, I don't think employing a zone would increase effort which is the real problem IMO. We are more than athletic enough to play man defense with intensity and pride if not effectiveness. Indictment of both coaches and players IMO.

 

[lawmanfan]

The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

I don't know if three guards is the plan although it is for the time being the necessity. I suspect if we had the personnel Ahmed would be the three in a traditional line up with two bigs. It's not like Sima was run out of town because he didn't fit in: on the contrary he was given every opportunity to succeed.

I'm sure if he had a couple of 6'9" guys who could run the floor and shoot he'd be happy to play a more traditionally sized line-up, but unless/until Freudenberg develops it's easier to find guards who fit the game plan than it is bigs. Agree Sima was given every opportunity, but I think he understood the style of play was not going to fit his skill set.

It is indeed Nellie-ball, or at least that seems to be the plan. I certainly don't think the first option is the pound-it-down-low halfcourt set.

 

[TobinGrad]

Successful programs manage to remain consistently ranked and make the tourney despite having key players leave almost every season.

Successful programs have coaches who can adjust to the personnel challenges they face season by season.

The Johnnies best player, Lovett currently averages 18-4-4, appears to be getting better as the competition gets tougher and is on pace for 1st team all-BE status. If he returns next year he is possibly preseason all American caliber guy and can seriously improve his draft status. Hopefully he returns next year. Don't pin hopes on him being here as a junior/senior.

Dont expect Ponds to be a 4 year guy either. You guys here who keep repeating that they are too small for the NBA at 6 and 6-1 are engaging in wishful thinking. Theyre both tall enough for the pg position. Successful programs don't depend on their favorite players sticking around 4 years to take a senior laden squad to the tourney once every 3 or 4 years. Successful programs go every year, with sophs, frosh and new rosters.

 

[we are sju]

The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

I don't know if three guards is the plan although it is for the time being the necessity. I suspect if we had the personnel Ahmed would be the three in a traditional line up with two bigs. It's not like Sima was run out of town because he didn't fit in: on the contrary he was given every opportunity to succeed.

I'm sure if he had a couple of 6'9" guys who could run the floor and shoot he'd be happy to play a more traditionally sized line-up, but unless/until Freudenberg develops it's easier to find guards who fit the game plan than it is bigs. Agree Sima was given every opportunity, but I think he understood the style of play was not going to fit his skill set.

It is indeed Nellie-ball, or at least that seems to be the plan. I certainly don't think the first option is the pound-it-down-low halfcourt set.

I think Chris Mullin and staff much like most of us did not foresee Sima regressing and leaving and Yakwe being replaced by a an android from Westworld that stinks with terrible hands

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

I don't know if three guards is the plan although it is for the time being the necessity. I suspect if we had the personnel Ahmed would be the three in a traditional line up with two bigs. It's not like Sima was run out of town because he didn't fit in: on the contrary he was given every opportunity to succeed.

I'm sure if he had a couple of 6'9" guys who could run the floor and shoot he'd be happy to play a more traditionally sized line-up, but unless/until Freudenberg develops it's easier to find guards who fit the game plan than it is bigs. Agree Sima was given every opportunity, but I think he understood the style of play was not going to fit his skill set.

It is indeed Nellie-ball, or at least that seems to be the plan. I certainly don't think the first option is the pound-it-down-low halfcourt set.

I think Chris Mullin and staff much like most of us did not foresee Sima regressing and leaving and Yakwe being replaced by a an android from Westworld that stinks with terrible hands

Thanks and yes none of we posters saw it either.

 

[fun]

The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

I don't know if three guards is the plan although it is for the time being the necessity. I suspect if we had the personnel Ahmed would be the three in a traditional line up with two bigs. It's not like Sima was run out of town because he didn't fit in: on the contrary he was given every opportunity to succeed.

I'm sure if he had a couple of 6'9" guys who could run the floor and shoot he'd be happy to play a more traditionally sized line-up, but unless/until Freudenberg develops it's easier to find guards who fit the game plan than it is bigs. Agree Sima was given every opportunity, but I think he understood the style of play was not going to fit his skill set.

It is indeed Nellie-ball, or at least that seems to be the plan. I certainly don't think the first option is the pound-it-down-low halfcourt set.

I don't think Sima understood the style of play much less that his skill set wasn't going to fit it.

"Despite the drastic improvement in their second season together, the Warriors blew up the team. They traded Richmond to the Sacramento Kings for Billy Owens, a rookie out of Syracuse who they thought could be the big man necessary to complete Coach Don Nelson’s vision of what a team should be. "

The big man they thought would complete Nelson's vision, the hall mark of Nellie ball being a point forward, as opposed to three guards. Anyway I'm not suggesting they're looking to play the twin towers, I'm suggesting that whatever they're doing this year they're doing because they have limited options, because many of the players stink.

 

[Red.Fans]

The Mullin blueprint for St John's is pretty obviously to have three guards, a scoring forward, and one big man. Moreover, the big man is going to have to be somebody who can run the floor since that's what he wants to do. That is why a space-eater like Sima did not fit in, but Owens and Williams do. Jury is out on Yakwe as a fit, he's still trying to figure it out.

I don't know if three guards is the plan although it is for the time being the necessity. I suspect if we had the personnel Ahmed would be the three in a traditional line up with two bigs. It's not like Sima was run out of town because he didn't fit in: on the contrary he was given every opportunity to succeed.

I'm sure if he had a couple of 6'9" guys who could run the floor and shoot he'd be happy to play a more traditionally sized line-up, but unless/until Freudenberg develops it's easier to find guards who fit the game plan than it is bigs. Agree Sima was given every opportunity, but I think he understood the style of play was not going to fit his skill set.

It is indeed Nellie-ball, or at least that seems to be the plan. I certainly don't think the first option is the pound-it-down-low halfcourt set.

I don't think Sima understood the style of play much less that his skill set wasn't going to fit it.

"Despite the drastic improvement in their second season together, the Warriors blew up the team. They traded Richmond to the Sacramento Kings for Billy Owens, a rookie out of Syracuse who they thought could be the big man necessary to complete Coach Don Nelson’s vision of what a team should be. "

The big man they thought would complete Nelson's vision, the hall mark of Nellie ball being a point forward, as opposed to three guards. Anyway I'm not suggesting they're looking to play the twin towers, I'm suggesting that whatever they're doing this year they're doing because they have limited options, because many of the players stink.

As a Golden State fan back in the Run TMC days, I have to say that I found Nellie-ball a lot of fun but ultimately could be frustrating because it always seemed they were a good big man away from being the best in the League even against Chicago with Jordan. When they got Billy Owens this was not the answer.

As I remember it they had two undersized big men that they played the most. Chris Gatling who was around 6'9 but relatively thin and was also post-brain surgery ( thinking about him reminds me of Darien always worried about him getting injured). And Victor Alexander. I had to look up his name to remember and it lists him at 6'9 but he never looked that tall. I always thought of him at around 6'6" but maybe that was just because he always looked so height challenged against the competition. He was more muscular than Gatling but he was always at a height disadvantage and not exactly a Gazelle. I also remember thinking that they looked better with Tyrone Hill out of Xavier who I think was a rookie, but he was not a true NBA big man either @ 6'9.

 

[McGarry2]

As to one recruit no there is not. And improving the program will not be accomplished recruiting 3 star and 4 star players. ( Exception for player like Ponds who should have been rated a 5 star ) By the time the 3 & 4 star players mature and jell they are on the way on the door. So if all works out you can expect a good team once every 4 years possibly. And that would a top 25 ranking or making the sweet sixteen. Both Mullin and Lavin seem to recognize the need to recruit the special players . A problem here you have to prepared to recruit these kids with warts as North Carolina, Duke Kansas Michigan State etc. will pick off the those without warts do to their academic standing. Yes we need to upgrade academic not just for recruiting but recruiting will benefit If you take a look at team roster all but one is majoring in Sports Management and that is the walk on from Atlanta Ga. in education.

 

[we are sju]

As to one recruit no there is not. And improving the program will not be accomplished recruiting 3 star and 4 star players. ( Exception for player like Ponds who should have been rated a 5 star ) By the time the 3 & 4 star player mature and jell they are on the way on the door. So if all works out you can expect a good team once every 4 year possibly. And that would a top 25 ranking or making the sweet sixteen. Both Mullin and Lavin seem to recognize the need to recruit the special players . A problem here you have to prepared to recruit these kids with warts as North Carolina, Duke Kansas Michigan State etc. will pick off the those without warts do to their academic standing. Yes we need to upgrade academic not just for recruiting but recruiting will benefit If you take a look at team roster all but one is majoring in Sports Management and that is the walk on from Atlanta Ga. in education.

Sima and Yakwe killed us but honestly both with Lavin and Mullin we can't seem to get a balanced roster. Not saying you need 4 or 5 star guys at every position but he seems we have a glaring need somewhere every year.
Seems we spend too much time trying to get 5 star kids then scramble to fill out roster.
I am no recruiting expert and this is just the way it seems to me.

 

[prjohnnies]

Lavin had the makings of a balance roster but decided to skip his last few years recruiting seriously on the trail.

I think in time Mullin will develop a roster balance and understand that is what helps you "re-load" instead of going through big time rebuilding projects every few years. We don't have roster balance now because of what our prior coach did. Mullin needed to grab kids quickly without accounting for true roster balance. In a few years, we will know whether coach can build a balanced roster that breeds sustainable success.

 

[we are sju]

Lavin had the makings of a balance roster but decided to skip his last few years recruiting seriously on the trail.

I think in time Mullin will develop a roster balance and understand that is what helps you "re-load" instead of going through big time rebuilding projects every few years. We don't have roster balance now because of what our prior coach did. Mullin needed to grab kids quickly without accounting for true roster balance. In a few years, we will know whether coach can build a balanced roster that breeds sustainable success.

I am a Mullin guy but next year will be year 3 and his best Froncourt guy will probably be a 6-6 under sized PF who averaged 4.4 points at Mich ST. Now I think Clark will be good for us, but at what point do you stop blaming the former coach?

 

[TobinGrad]

As to one recruit no there is not. And improving the program will not be accomplished recruiting 3 star and 4 star players. ( Exception for player like Ponds who should have been rated a 5 star ) By the time the 3 & 4 star player mature and jell they are on the way on the door. So if all works out you can expect a good team once every 4 year possibly. And that would a top 25 ranking or making the sweet sixteen. Both Mullin and Lavin seem to recognize the need to recruit the special players . A problem here you have to prepared to recruit these kids with warts as North Carolina, Duke Kansas Michigan State etc. will pick off the those without warts do to their academic standing. Yes we need to upgrade academic not just for recruiting but recruiting will benefit If you take a look at team roster all but one is majoring in Sports Management and that is the walk on from Atlanta Ga. in education.

Sima and Yakwe killed us but honestly both with Lavin and Mullin we can't seem to get a balanced roster. Not saying you need 4 or 5 star guys at every position but he seems we have a glaring need somewhere every year.
Seems we spend too much time trying to get 5 star kids then scramble to fill out roster.
I am no recruiting expert and this is just the way it seems to me.

St. Johns lucked up and got two 5 star caliber kids who were under ranked at 4 stars. Unfortunately everyone else was overrated. Yakwe and Mussini are actually 3 star caliber guys who were overrated as 4 stars out of high school. Sima and Ellinson were desperation grabs and not the caliber recruit the staff will be going after in the future.

Will be curious to see Simons offensive development next year. If Mullin has helped him develop a jumpshot he could be a major factor. If they are a tourney team next year, Reid and Muhammed could be the elite guys needed to add to (or more likely replace) Ponds and Lovett. However if they fail to win next year, things look gloomy on the recruiting front.