Is there a law we don't know about?

[fun]

Ron Rowan shot 46.3% as a junior and then a stellar 52% from the field as a senior, and 87% from the line. He never shot less than 45% in his career.

Ron Rowan averaged less than 6 points a game his first three years, taking about three shots in 10 minutes per game. If he was such a good shot why didn't they let him take more?

Mark Jackson shot as well from the floor over his 4 year career (51 percent) as did Rowan in his best year (52) and was below 50 percent only once. Jackson's first two years he shot 56 and 58 percent - that's better than Rowan's best and "stellar" senior year. And the one year they had the three point shot, Jackson shot 42 percent.

Larry Wright shot north of 40 percent from 3 in both his years at SJ. He took and made more three pointers in his first two years than Rowan took two pointers in his first three years. Over his career Rowan shot a few points higher from the field than Wright did from three.

I don't have that nice graphic they use in the NBA games showing the distribution of where on the court the shots were made, but he wasn't known for his layups. He made the NBA for a few weeks, and I assume he wasn't given the shot cause of that cool hairstyle, but you never know.

 

I don't see how the cup of coffee Ron Rowan had in the NBA is relevant to the proposition that he was a great shooter in college but assuming it is then the fact that Mark Jackson played in the NBA for 15 years and is a hall of famer seems conclusive.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Ron Rowan shot 46.3% as a junior and then a stellar 52% from the field as a senior, and 87% from the line. He never shot less than 45% in his career.

Ron Rowan averaged less than 6 points a game his first three years, taking about three shots in 10 minutes per game. If he was such a good shot why didn't they let him take more?

Mark Jackson shot as well from the floor over his 4 year career (51 percent) as did Rowan in his best year (52) and was below 50 percent only once. Jackson's first two years he shot 56 and 58 percent - that's better than Rowan's best and "stellar" senior year. And the one year they had the three point shot, Jackson shot 42 percent.

Larry Wright shot north of 40 percent from 3 in both his years at SJ. He took and made more three pointers in his first two years than Rowan took two pointers in his first three years. Over his career Rowan shot a few points higher from the field than Wright did from three.

I don't have that nice graphic they use in the NBA games showing the distribution of where on the court the shots were made, but he wasn't known for his layups. He made the NBA for a few weeks, and I assume he wasn't given the shot cause of that cool hairstyle, but you never know.

 

I don't see how the cup of coffee Ron Rowan had in the NBA is relevant to the proposition that he was a great shooter in college but assuming it is then the fact that Mark Jackson played in the NBA for 15 years and is a hall of famer seems conclusive.

 

Here's Rowan's stat line the only year he average over 6 points per game and played significant minutes:
1985-86 St. John's (NY) 36 1360 212 404 .525

Here is Jackson's numbers on the two years he averaged over 6 points per game:
1985-86 36 151-316 .478
1986-87 30 196-389 .504

No 3 point line for Rowan during his career. From the field: Rowan: .525, Jackson:.478 and .504.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Ron Rowan shot 46.3% as a junior and then a stellar 52% from the field as a senior, and 87% from the line. He never shot less than 45% in his career.

Ron Rowan averaged less than 6 points a game his first three years, taking about three shots in 10 minutes per game. If he was such a good shot why didn't they let him take more?

Mark Jackson shot as well from the floor over his 4 year career (51 percent) as did Rowan in his best year (52) and was below 50 percent only once. Jackson's first two years he shot 56 and 58 percent - that's better than Rowan's best and "stellar" senior year. And the one year they had the three point shot, Jackson shot 42 percent.

Larry Wright shot north of 40 percent from 3 in both his years at SJ. He took and made more three pointers in his first two years than Rowan took two pointers in his first three years. Over his career Rowan shot a few points higher from the field than Wright did from three.

I don't have that nice graphic they use in the NBA games showing the distribution of where on the court the shots were made, but he wasn't known for his layups. He made the NBA for a few weeks, and I assume he wasn't given the shot cause of that cool hairstyle, but you never know.

 

I don't see how the cup of coffee Ron Rowan had in the NBA is relevant to the proposition that he was a great shooter in college but assuming it is then the fact that Mark Jackson played in the NBA for 15 years and is a hall of famer seems conclusive.

 

Here's Rowan's stat line the only year he average over 6 points per game and played significant minutes:
1985-86 St. John's (NY) 36 1360 212 404 .525

Here is Jackson's numbers on the two years he averaged over 6 points per game:
1985-86 36 151-316 .478
1986-87 30 196-389 .504

No 3 point line for Rowan during his career. From the field: Rowan: .525, Jackson:.478 and .504.

 

Lacking a shot distribution chart, we are left with our memories and the statistics. Since our memories can't always be trusted, we are left with trying to eliminate as many variables as possible. So history was kind to us. Jackson and Rowan played together in 85-86, eliminating the variables of competition faced and supporting cast, even prior game experience. Jax, then a junior, played in 65 games prior to that season. Rowan, a senior, played in 64. Both played every game in 1985-86. In 85-86, Jackson took 316 shots and shot .485 from the field. Rowan took 404, and shot .525. Jax the PG, Rowan the SG. Jax improved to over 50% his senior year, where he had a superb season both by my recollection and the stats. I maintain that Rowan had more range and was a better shooter, meaning outside shooter, than Jackson. Some may disagree. As for the 85-86 season, both played major minutes and had plenty of attempts and plenty of experience on their sides. A shot distribution chart would settle the argument, at least for that season. We don't have one, and, unless someone is psychotic enough to dig up film footage and make a chart by watching every game, we won't have one. Although maybe there is one out there in cyberspace. It would be fun trying, or maybe it will be FUN trying.   

 

[beast of the east]

 many years ago i spoke to mike jarvis at a h.s. game at st. doms. i told him his players could jump to the top of the backboard but could not throw the ball in the ocean. he said that would change next year with doyle and ingram. we know how that worked out. nothing has changed. as a fan for 50 years who watched chris and tony jackson it was really sad to watch last night.

 

It was tough to watch Sam, but you gotta have faith that it'll improve.

Only shooting displays that I can remember rivaled last night's was a game at Nassau Coliseum against Oregon (#1 ranked at some point that season) and of course the 1st half of that Georgetown disaster (think we were down 36-9 in the 1st half).

 

Awesome recollection - I was thinking of that game, and you referenced it. The papers called us "the gang that couldn't shoot straight"

 

[fun]

I maintain that Rowan   

Shaw, Horne, Postell, Boo, Bootsy, Mullin, Jackson, Larry Wright, DJ Kennedy. I'd put Rowan Barrett ahead of Rowan Ron.
 

 

[beast of the east]

I maintain that Rowan   

Shaw, Horne, Postell, Boo, Bootsy, Mullin, Jackson, Larry Wright, DJ Kennedy. I'd put Rowan Barrett ahead of Rowan Ron.
 

 

I think in fairness to you, Rowan's reputation as a deadeye shooter was enhanced by his big shot to win the BET vs. Syracuse and by his one dimenstional nature. He was a pretty good outside shooter - I am thinking that Sergio Luyk was also, but didn't have enough of anything else.

I don't think any of the players you listed except Mullin were ever considered deadeye outside shooters by any observer, although it's clear the Jackson shot well even from 3 (I tend to multiply 3 pt shooting percentage by 1.5, since that's what you end up with in productivity). However, with Berry as a big inside threat I would bet that many of his college threes were kickouts where he was relatively wide open. I don't think any of us would think of the guys you listed as lights out. I liked Glen Williams as an outside shooter, and maybe Kevin Cluess, but I think Williams was more medium range and I didn't see enough of Cluess. Does anyone remember these two better than I?

 

[Ray Morgan]

I maintain that Rowan   

Shaw, Horne, Postell, Boo, Bootsy, Mullin, Jackson, Larry Wright, DJ Kennedy. I'd put Rowan Barrett ahead of Rowan Ron.
 

 

I think in fairness to you, Rowan's reputation as a deadeye shooter was enhanced by his big shot to win the BET vs. Syracuse and by his one dimenstional nature. He was a pretty good outside shooter - I am thinking that Sergio Luyk was also, but didn't have enough of anything else.

I don't think any of the players you listed except Mullin were ever considered deadeye outside shooters by any observer, although it's clear the Jackson shot well even from 3 (I tend to multiply 3 pt shooting percentage by 1.5, since that's what you end up with in productivity). However, with Berry as a big inside threat I would bet that many of his college threes were kickouts where he was relatively wide open. I don't think any of us would think of the guys you listed as lights out. I liked Glen Williams as an outside shooter, and maybe Kevin Cluess, but I think Williams was more medium range and I didn't see enough of Cluess. Does anyone remember these two better than I?

 


As for Jackson, he earned his 3 point shots alone.. Berry had already graduated. Mark just had a superior senior season. Cluess and Williams had ample range. The great shooter whose range did not need to get tested was Billy Schaeffer. For a guy who was slow afoot, he had a knack for getting his shot off consistently within 15 feet. He could shoot runners and teardrops, a skill Jackson also had.

 

[Ray Morgan]

I maintain that Rowan   

Shaw, Horne, Postell, Boo, Bootsy, Mullin, Jackson, Larry Wright, DJ Kennedy. I'd put Rowan Barrett ahead of Rowan Ron.
 

 

I would put Rowan and Martin ahead of Rowan Barrett. Well, least Rowan. I never saw Martin play, although he was more fun than Rowan.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Michael Porter shot over 53% at SJU. Outside of Mullin, the only SG on the list of the top ten shooters. I did not watch a lot of SJU basketball that season, so if he managed, with his great leaping ability, to score with mostly dunks, please let us know.

 

[simplyred]

I maintain that Rowan   

Shaw, Horne, Postell, Boo, Bootsy, Mullin, Jackson, Larry Wright, DJ Kennedy. I'd put Rowan Barrett ahead of Rowan Ron.
 

 

I would put Rowan and Martin ahead of Rowan Barrett. Well, least Rowan. I never saw Martin play, although he was more fun than Rowan.

 

That was a "fun" post. Good job, Ray!

 

[fun]

I would put Rowan and Martin ahead of Rowan Barrett. Well, least Rowan. I never saw Martin play, although he was more fun than Rowan.

 

You say that Bootsy is one of the three best shooters over the past 25 years. He shot .367 from 3 and according to this list is 7th all time in 3 point percentage. Rowan Barrett shot .361 over is career, and at .005 behind Bootsy, one of the three greatest evah, is 8th on the list. Yet according to you he does not deserve to be mentioned. Either your memory is faded or your judgment is capricious. EOS.

http://archive.stjohns.edu/pls/portal30/retreive_img_data?img_id=3283

 

[we are sju]

I would put Rowan and Martin ahead of Rowan Barrett. Well, least Rowan. I never saw Martin play, although he was more fun than Rowan.

 

You say that Bootsy is one of the three best shooters over the past 25 years. He shot .367 from 3 and according to this list is 7th all time in 3 point percentage. Rowan Barrett shot .361 over is career, and at .005 behind Bootsy, one of the three greatest evah, is 8th on the list. Yet according to you he does not deserve to be mentioned. Either your memory is faded or your judgment is capricious. EOS.

http://archive.stjohns.edu/pls/portal30/retreive_img_data?img_id=3283

 

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

[fun]

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Top 5 shooters (whatever that means to you) since Mullin.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

[we are sju]

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Top 5 shooters (whatever that means to you) since Mullin.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

Interesting question. Does it have to be three point shooting? My guess is no becuase Mullin did not have the line when he was he was here. Honestly for my $ the best jump shooter since Mullin was Sealy but he just did not extend out to the three. Harvey was a good three point shooter and people forget becuase he was not a good shooter in the pros but Jackson shot very well from there his senior year. Well under my criteria of people I had the most confidence in shooting jumpers from 15 feet out to three, here it is.
1. Sealy
2. Boo Harvey
3. Hardy
4. Bootsy
5. Rowan  

 

[fun]

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Top 5 shooters (whatever that means to you) since Mullin.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

Interesting question. Does it have to be three point shooting? My guess is no becuase Mullin did not have the line when he was he was here. Honestly for my $ the best jump shooter since Mullin was Sealy but he just did not extend out to the three. Harvey was a good three point shooter and people forget becuase he was not a good shooter in the pros but Jackson shot very well from there his senior year. Well under my criteria of people I had the most confidence in shooting jumpers from 15 feet out to three, here it is.
1. Sealy
2. Boo Harvey
3. Hardy
4. Bootsy
5. Rowan  

I'm with you on the first four. But Jackson's first all time in 3 point percentage in a season at 43 percent. Larry Wright shot 40 percent from 3 over two years. I don't remember Rowan as that good and wouldn't havr thought to put him in the top 10.


 

 

[we are sju]

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Top 5 shooters (whatever that means to you) since Mullin.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

Interesting question. Does it have to be three point shooting? My guess is no becuase Mullin did not have the line when he was he was here. Honestly for my $ the best jump shooter since Mullin was Sealy but he just did not extend out to the three. Harvey was a good three point shooter and people forget becuase he was not a good shooter in the pros but Jackson shot very well from there his senior year. Well under my criteria of people I had the most confidence in shooting jumpers from 15 feet out to three, here it is.
1. Sealy
2. Boo Harvey
3. Hardy
4. Bootsy
5. Rowan  

I'm with you on the first four. But Jackson's first all time in 3 point percentage in a season at 43 percent. Larry Wright shot 40 percent from 3 over two years. I don't remember Rowan as that good and wouldn't havr thought to put him in the top 10.


 

 

He only really played one season and compared to Mullin I think I could see how people would not remember him as fondly. From my perspective that team despite their upset in 2nd round was my favorite SJU team of all time. I loved the whole starting 5 Berry, Shelton, Glasss, Rowan, Jackson.
BTW I did not look it up but if I had to guess I would say Rowan was the 2nd leading scorer on that team. Around 14 a game? Most of that was done with jumpers.

 

[lawmanfan]

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Top 5 shooters (whatever that means to you) since Mullin.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

1. Fred Lyson
2. Tim Doyle
3. Sergio Luyk
4. Chucky Sproling
5. Curtis Johnson.

Alternative group:

1. Bootsy Thornton
2. Dwight Hardy
3. Boo Harvey
4. Mo Brown
5. Willie Shaw

If the game is on the line when the shot is being taken, Boo Harvey goes to #1.

 

[usguard]

I thought Rowan was a good shooter and a pretty good passer. Bootsy was more a scorer than pure shooter. Both two of the better shooting guards we ever had since I have been a fan. I think until Rowan hit the Cuse shot he was underated becuase he followed Mullin. If there had been a three point line Rowan would be considered even better. Actually it is a shame it came in the following season. Jackson wasn't a bad college 3 point shooter ansd with Rowan it would have helped with all the zone and doubling they did on Berry.

 

I've been waiting for you to chime in. Top 5 shooters (whatever that means to you) since Mullin.
Wasnt Rowan a transfer First name Ron







1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

 

Interesting question. Does it have to be three point shooting? My guess is no becuase Mullin did not have the line when he was he was here. Honestly for my $ the best jump shooter since Mullin was Sealy but he just did not extend out to the three. Harvey was a good three point shooter and people forget becuase he was not a good shooter in the pros but Jackson shot very well from there his senior year. Well under my criteria of people I had the most confidence in shooting jumpers from 15 feet out to three, here it is.
1. Sealy
2. Boo Harvey
3. Hardy
4. Bootsy
5. Rowan  

I'm with you on the first four. But Jackson's first all time in 3 point percentage in a season at 43 percent. Larry Wright shot 40 percent from 3 over two years. I don't remember Rowan as that good and wouldn't havr thought to put him in the top 10.


 

 

He only really played one season and compared to Mullin I think I could see how people would not remember him as fondly. From my perspective that team despite their upset in 2nd round was my favorite SJU team of all time. I loved the whole starting 5 Berry, Shelton, Glasss, Rowan, Jackson.
BTW I did not look it up but if I had to guess I would say Rowan was the 2nd leading scorer on that team. Around 14 a game? Most of that was done with jumpers.

 

 

[monte]

Started following the Redmen circa 1980, and IMO Ron Rowan is the 2nd best pure shooter to have donned a St. John's uniform since I started watching them. The guy could flat out shoot. He probably would have averaged more had he not had to share the ball with so many other talented guys on that 85-86 team.

 

[fuchsia]

 Mullin and Kevin Loughery are probably 1 and 1A on any STJ shooters list and no certainty on which is in which slot.