Is St. John's leaving Manhattan?

[Ben]

I know the school would probably never do that because it wants to be known as exceptionally diverse, but it's something that needs to be done if we truly want to be a top 75 school.

The thing is the school doesn't want to be nor plans to be a Top 75 school. We have a niche that works. The academics should get better under a new administration but I think being in the 100-125 range of overall undergraduate schools is a realistic goal to set. At our core we are still a commuter school with limited residential space compared to our overall student population and in a city that has schools like NYU, Columbia and Fordham I don't think we have the ammunition to compete as a full residential school that will attract top students from around the country. With that being said there is no reason for our pharmacy school, law school and business school not to be top-notch and in the top 50 of their respective rankings.

It's nice to have good grad programs, but what really makes schools are strong undergrad programs. We need to demand more. Instead of giving the kid with a 3.0 from Haiti a scholarship and admittance, let's give it to a kid with a 3.7 from Haiti. Academics are more important than diversity. In fact, many of the top schools are not very diverse i.e. Villanova, Providence, Boston College, etc. Lots of schools in the area are very selective and only admit 30-35% of applicants. We let in around half. Why is this? The admissions just seem to be very lax...they seem to want to be seen as the UN instead of having a prestigious academic reputation. I just don't agree with that. I don't see any reason we shouldn't have the expectations of say a Fordham in terms of academics once we get more dorms and it turns into a legit dorming campus. Don't get me wrong, if international students or kids from the inner cities really do have good grade i.e. 3.4+ then by all means let them in. But I know a lot of people who go to SJ are the first in their families to get a college degree. I'd avoid being that kind of school. But hey, this is just me.

What I'm saying is why would a top-of-the-class kid go to St. John's when Columbia and NYU are in NYC. We aren't going to compete with those schools ever. Our campus isn't nice enough, we don't have the location or reputation and we certainly don't have the money. I don't want St. John's to be a top school that only admits rich white kids, that's not what St. John's is and it never will or should be. It's easy to say cut admission but to be honest I probably wouldn't have gotten a scholarship to St. John's if it was a school that had the standards of a school like Villanova, which I made but didn't get money from. If every school only admitted kids with great grades and SAT scores then 3/4 of the country would go uneducated.

We have a niche in that we can create scholars out of kids who didn't have the opportunity to because of financial struggles or problems at home. With that being said, we should expand the residential options and cut some of the College of Professional Studies programs that hold the school back and create other programs that have growing employment numbers.

What's so bad about having white kids in a school? This is what I'm afraid of. I don't want SJ admitting a student just because he's black or native american from the inner city with 2.8's over a capable white kid from the suburbs with a 3.7. That's part of the reason we have the current problem with low standards. It should be whoever makes the cut makes it and whoever doesn't does not get in. We need blind admissions. Make race irrelevant and focus on GPA and SAT/ACT scores. I think this country sometimes embraces diversity so much so that it gets crammed down people's throats and replaces standards with quotas...just look at the FDNY and how that failed miserably. I think people should be free to associate. If you don't want diversity and want to go to a 95% white school there is nothing wrong with that. Humans are tribal and by in large stay with their own groups anyway. On the other hand, if a student wants to go to a school with people from all over that's just fine too and there's nothing wrong with it. I just don't want the perception to be that diversity is always better than homogeneity because the truth is it's not. Look at Europe...the multiculturalism is tearing it apart as we speak. I am a numbers and results guy, not in the quota business. That may come off as brash and insensitive, but I don't intend to be.

Just because NYU and Columbia are way more prestigious doesn't mean we can't drastically improve our profile. We live in the biggest metro area in the country and one of the biggest if not THE biggest in the world. There are plenty of smart kids to go around. If SJ raises the profile, we can steal kids from Stony Brook, Fordham, etc. I don't think saying let the best man win the spot is a radical thing to say. I think SJ can balance its diversity agenda with say a 40% acceptance rate becoming at least a fairly selective school. Just food for thought here, interesting discussion. I'm interested to see what the other guys think.

St. John's isn't turning away anyone with a good GPA no matter what skin color they are. The problem isn't that qualified white candidates aren't being admitted. It's that qualified white candidates are choosing other schools over St. John's.

Right, but the very reason that the smart "rich white kids" are choosing other schools is because it is pretty clear SJ chooses diversity over rigor and prestige. The problem the school has parallels the one America has with immigrants today. We think we need to be this country where we let in low skilled, poor 3rd worlders and we think we owe them something. Instead of letting in low skill immigrants from countries with incompatible cultures like Iraq where they want sharia law in America and Europe, we should be letting in a science wizard from Hong Kong.

Wow.

No rebuttal, just a reaction? I'm curious how you would counter.

Well 1st I'd counter that I'm suprised you didnt highlight Villanova in your post

2nd it's interesting you think low skilled workers come from Iraq and science wizards from Hong Kong. Just funny because a long time ago there was an Iranian family on my block and 1 of their kids I think is a scientist now. But maybe it's a big difference being an iranian vs iraqi now after the wars

Just a matter of time before you complain about those hong kong wizards about taking away jobs from your generation though just like you were complaining about old people taking away your generation's opportunities.

BTW it is pretty Ironic that you are worried about Iraqi's wanting Sharia law in the US when we invaded their country. But I wouldn't worry too much since I'm not even sure they represent 1% of immigrants here. I'm not even sure I have even met more than 5 in my life.

I was really just using some quick examples, not necessarily the most obvious ones. There is no way you can deny there is an illegal immigrant invasion in this country of low skilled people from the 3rd world. Studies also show that they don't move up either like past immigrants (who weren't illegal), because they refuse to assimilate. I'm not just talking about illegal immigrants though, also legal immigrants from the 3rd world. There should not be a revolving door in this country...we should be highly selective and only let people in who can make us a better country and offer real skills...same for SJ which is why I made the parallel. Having no standards is never good. I truly feel for the less fortunate of the world and if I was a trillionaire I'd end world hunger, but it's not realistic. I just don't think America should be responsible for other people's bad luck in life. It's like casinos...some will win, some will lose. If you hit the jackpot and some guy comes over and asks you for some, are you going to give it to him? No. You don't owe him a thing...it was just the luck of the draw that you won and he didn't. To stay with the parallel to SJ, I want to attract the winners in life, the ones with a lot going for them, not the ones who don't take school seriously and are only there because of the color of their skin.

Not exclusively obviously, but by in large. My point is that multiculturalism has failed on many fronts but many people refuse to admit it because they will get called the dreaded "r" word. The FDNY was forced to be politically correct and literally give jobs to those who could not perform. What ensued was the worst class of firefighters ever. They couldn't even complete basic training tasks. Is that what we want at SJ? I hope not. And by the way if you don't think there's a massive radical Islam problem in Europe, you haven't been following the news. There are thousands protesting in the streets because the radicals want to install sharia law, beheaded an English soldier, and a soldier in France was just stabbed in the neck by another radical. They also want women treated worse than cattle. Being diverse should not be the #1 ideal...it should be quality first. There is no reason affirmative action should even exist anymore.

I agree there is definitely something wrong with immigration. Just never had an Iraqi cut my lawn so honestly have never considered a middle east immigration problem.

I'm sure immigrants arent moving up as in the old days and some of that might be because some refuse to assimilate but I dont think it's just that. The middle class is dwindling in general regardless of race not only making it harder for people to move up but a lot of people are moving down

Moving to this country legally even isnt as easy as you think. My fiancee's brother has been waiting to move here legally for I think 4 years and is still waiting for approval. I dont know if there are different standards depending on where you are from ( I want to say yes but I'm really not sure. Regardless he is from South America )and he is a computer whiz but it's not that easy to just come here. At least from South America.

I totally agree with you about St Johns raising there standards to an extent and granted it was a while ago that I went to St Johns but when I went there the foreign students were a lot smarter than a lot of the other local students who thought there was 1 K in Drakkar Noir and they wore it every freaking day

I understand what you are saying with Europe but I just dont see it happening here. Heck when we were walking around in Malmo Sweden a couple of years ago we were specifically told to not walk into a couple of parts that were heavily muslim because they said there would be problems for us. So we avoided them. But bad things can happen anywhere regardless of race or religion.

On the other hand I also felt perfectly safe walking around Jordan after just a couple of hours and walking thru the west bank & bethlehem and the arab part of east jerusalem.

But no way in hell would you catching me walking in my brothers old precinct on brooklyn

"But bad things can happen anywhere regardless of race or religion." Of course...but in nowhere near the same ratio. Bad things can happen on Long Island and bad things can happen on the Gaza Strip. But the difference is violence on the Gaza Strip is probably 1 million times more likely than on LI. Radical Muslims are not yet a major problem in the US, but look at the Boston bombings, American Taliban members, etc. It still happens every once in a while. I think we need to learn from Europe and prevent immigration at all costs. We are already about to grant over 10 million illegals from the 3rd world citizenship...they have brought with them gangs like MS-13 and the Latin Kings both of which are infesting many areas of the US even LI in Central Islip, Brentwood, etc. If you take the LIRR you can see "SUR-13" (MS-13) graffiti all over. They also bring with them drug lords and bring real estate prices down with 12 people living in 1 house, garbage everywhere, etc. So let's not act like these immigrants are angels just because they aren't beheading our soldiers. I hear the other arguments but when people say "it's the same as the old immigrants", it's just total BS. It couldn't be more different. Europeans had their own spins on culture, but when they came to America they came legally, did not rely on handouts, made it a point to learn English asap and assimilate to our culture, etc. The opposite is true for the new immigrants from the 3rd world. It's just a totally different mindset.

"Joe, everyone in America came from somewhere" Yes, but you are totally ignoring the major differences between old and new immigrants. The old ones were willing to assimilate, not joining "La Raza", and they were begging to be Americans instead of being anti-American. The old ones came to totally change their lives and blend in. The new ones came strictly for economic reasons, but kept their cultures from their old countries including their language, trying to force America to change for them. It's totally reversed.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I know the school would probably never do that because it wants to be known as exceptionally diverse, but it's something that needs to be done if we truly want to be a top 75 school.

The thing is the school doesn't want to be nor plans to be a Top 75 school. We have a niche that works. The academics should get better under a new administration but I think being in the 100-125 range of overall undergraduate schools is a realistic goal to set. At our core we are still a commuter school with limited residential space compared to our overall student population and in a city that has schools like NYU, Columbia and Fordham I don't think we have the ammunition to compete as a full residential school that will attract top students from around the country. With that being said there is no reason for our pharmacy school, law school and business school not to be top-notch and in the top 50 of their respective rankings.

It's nice to have good grad programs, but what really makes schools are strong undergrad programs. We need to demand more. Instead of giving the kid with a 3.0 from Haiti a scholarship and admittance, let's give it to a kid with a 3.7 from Haiti. Academics are more important than diversity. In fact, many of the top schools are not very diverse i.e. Villanova, Providence, Boston College, etc. Lots of schools in the area are very selective and only admit 30-35% of applicants. We let in around half. Why is this? The admissions just seem to be very lax...they seem to want to be seen as the UN instead of having a prestigious academic reputation. I just don't agree with that. I don't see any reason we shouldn't have the expectations of say a Fordham in terms of academics once we get more dorms and it turns into a legit dorming campus. Don't get me wrong, if international students or kids from the inner cities really do have good grade i.e. 3.4+ then by all means let them in. But I know a lot of people who go to SJ are the first in their families to get a college degree. I'd avoid being that kind of school. But hey, this is just me.

What I'm saying is why would a top-of-the-class kid go to St. John's when Columbia and NYU are in NYC. We aren't going to compete with those schools ever. Our campus isn't nice enough, we don't have the location or reputation and we certainly don't have the money. I don't want St. John's to be a top school that only admits rich white kids, that's not what St. John's is and it never will or should be. It's easy to say cut admission but to be honest I probably wouldn't have gotten a scholarship to St. John's if it was a school that had the standards of a school like Villanova, which I made but didn't get money from. If every school only admitted kids with great grades and SAT scores then 3/4 of the country would go uneducated.

We have a niche in that we can create scholars out of kids who didn't have the opportunity to because of financial struggles or problems at home. With that being said, we should expand the residential options and cut some of the College of Professional Studies programs that hold the school back and create other programs that have growing employment numbers.

What's so bad about having white kids in a school? This is what I'm afraid of. I don't want SJ admitting a student just because he's black or native american from the inner city with 2.8's over a capable white kid from the suburbs with a 3.7. That's part of the reason we have the current problem with low standards. It should be whoever makes the cut makes it and whoever doesn't does not get in. We need blind admissions. Make race irrelevant and focus on GPA and SAT/ACT scores. I think this country sometimes embraces diversity so much so that it gets crammed down people's throats and replaces standards with quotas...just look at the FDNY and how that failed miserably. I think people should be free to associate. If you don't want diversity and want to go to a 95% white school there is nothing wrong with that. Humans are tribal and by in large stay with their own groups anyway. On the other hand, if a student wants to go to a school with people from all over that's just fine too and there's nothing wrong with it. I just don't want the perception to be that diversity is always better than homogeneity because the truth is it's not. Look at Europe...the multiculturalism is tearing it apart as we speak. I am a numbers and results guy, not in the quota business. That may come off as brash and insensitive, but I don't intend to be.

Just because NYU and Columbia are way more prestigious doesn't mean we can't drastically improve our profile. We live in the biggest metro area in the country and one of the biggest if not THE biggest in the world. There are plenty of smart kids to go around. If SJ raises the profile, we can steal kids from Stony Brook, Fordham, etc. I don't think saying let the best man win the spot is a radical thing to say. I think SJ can balance its diversity agenda with say a 40% acceptance rate becoming at least a fairly selective school. Just food for thought here, interesting discussion. I'm interested to see what the other guys think.

St. John's isn't turning away anyone with a good GPA no matter what skin color they are. The problem isn't that qualified white candidates aren't being admitted. It's that qualified white candidates are choosing other schools over St. John's.

Right, but the very reason that the smart "rich white kids" are choosing other schools is because it is pretty clear SJ chooses diversity over rigor and prestige. The problem the school has parallels the one America has with immigrants today. We think we need to be this country where we let in low skilled, poor 3rd worlders and we think we owe them something. Instead of letting in low skill immigrants from countries with incompatible cultures like Iraq where they want sharia law in America and Europe, we should be letting in a science wizard from Hong Kong.

Wow.

No rebuttal, just a reaction? I'm curious how you would counter.

Well 1st I'd counter that I'm suprised you didnt highlight Villanova in your post

2nd it's interesting you think low skilled workers come from Iraq and science wizards from Hong Kong. Just funny because a long time ago there was an Iranian family on my block and 1 of their kids I think is a scientist now. But maybe it's a big difference being an iranian vs iraqi now after the wars

Just a matter of time before you complain about those hong kong wizards about taking away jobs from your generation though just like you were complaining about old people taking away your generation's opportunities.

BTW it is pretty Ironic that you are worried about Iraqi's wanting Sharia law in the US when we invaded their country. But I wouldn't worry too much since I'm not even sure they represent 1% of immigrants here. I'm not even sure I have even met more than 5 in my life.

I was really just using some quick examples, not necessarily the most obvious ones. There is no way you can deny there is an illegal immigrant invasion in this country of low skilled people from the 3rd world. Studies also show that they don't move up either like past immigrants (who weren't illegal), because they refuse to assimilate. I'm not just talking about illegal immigrants though, also legal immigrants from the 3rd world. There should not be a revolving door in this country...we should be highly selective and only let people in who can make us a better country and offer real skills...same for SJ which is why I made the parallel. Having no standards is never good. I truly feel for the less fortunate of the world and if I was a trillionaire I'd end world hunger, but it's not realistic. I just don't think America should be responsible for other people's bad luck in life. It's like casinos...some will win, some will lose. If you hit the jackpot and some guy comes over and asks you for some, are you going to give it to him? No. You don't owe him a thing...it was just the luck of the draw that you won and he didn't. To stay with the parallel to SJ, I want to attract the winners in life, the ones with a lot going for them, not the ones who don't take school seriously and are only there because of the color of their skin.

Not exclusively obviously, but by in large. My point is that multiculturalism has failed on many fronts but many people refuse to admit it because they will get called the dreaded "r" word. The FDNY was forced to be politically correct and literally give jobs to those who could not perform. What ensued was the worst class of firefighters ever. They couldn't even complete basic training tasks. Is that what we want at SJ? I hope not. And by the way if you don't think there's a massive radical Islam problem in Europe, you haven't been following the news. There are thousands protesting in the streets because the radicals want to install sharia law, beheaded an English soldier, and a soldier in France was just stabbed in the neck by another radical. They also want women treated worse than cattle. Being diverse should not be the #1 ideal...it should be quality first. There is no reason affirmative action should even exist anymore.

I agree there is definitely something wrong with immigration. Just never had an Iraqi cut my lawn so honestly have never considered a middle east immigration problem.

I'm sure immigrants arent moving up as in the old days and some of that might be because some refuse to assimilate but I dont think it's just that. The middle class is dwindling in general regardless of race not only making it harder for people to move up but a lot of people are moving down

Moving to this country legally even isnt as easy as you think. My fiancee's brother has been waiting to move here legally for I think 4 years and is still waiting for approval. I dont know if there are different standards depending on where you are from ( I want to say yes but I'm really not sure. Regardless he is from South America )and he is a computer whiz but it's not that easy to just come here. At least from South America.

I totally agree with you about St Johns raising there standards to an extent and granted it was a while ago that I went to St Johns but when I went there the foreign students were a lot smarter than a lot of the other local students who thought there was 1 K in Drakkar Noir and they wore it every freaking day

I understand what you are saying with Europe but I just dont see it happening here. Heck when we were walking around in Malmo Sweden a couple of years ago we were specifically told to not walk into a couple of parts that were heavily muslim because they said there would be problems for us. So we avoided them. But bad things can happen anywhere regardless of race or religion.

On the other hand I also felt perfectly safe walking around Jordan after just a couple of hours and walking thru the west bank & bethlehem and the arab part of east jerusalem.

But no way in hell would you catching me walking in my brothers old precinct on brooklyn

"But bad things can happen anywhere regardless of race or religion." Of course...but in nowhere near the same ratio. Bad things can happen on Long Island and bad things can happen on the Gaza Strip. But the difference is violence on the Gaza Strip is probably 1 million times more likely than on LI. Radical Muslims are not yet a major problem in the US, but look at the Boston bombings, American Taliban members, etc. It still happens every once in a while. I think we need to learn from Europe and prevent immigration at all costs. We are already about to grant over 10 million illegals from the 3rd world citizenship...they have brought with them gangs like MS-13 and the Latin Kings both of which are infesting many areas of the US even LI in Central Islip, Brentwood, etc. If you take the LIRR you can see "SUR-13" (MS-13) graffiti all over. They also bring with them drug lords and bring real estate prices down with 12 people living in 1 house, garbage everywhere, etc. So let's not act like these immigrants are angels just because they aren't beheading our soldiers. I hear the other arguments but when people say "it's the same as the old immigrants", it's just total BS. It couldn't be more different. Europeans had their own spins on culture, but when they came to America they came legally, did not rely on handouts, made it a point to learn English asap and assimilate to our culture, etc. The opposite is true for the new immigrants from the 3rd world. It's just a totally different mindset.

"Joe, everyone in America came from somewhere" Yes, but you are totally ignoring the major differences between old and new immigrants. The old ones were willing to assimilate, not joining "La Raza", and they were begging to be Americans instead of being anti-American. The old ones came to totally change their lives and blend in. The new ones came strictly for economic reasons, but kept their cultures from their old countries including their language, trying to force America to change for them. It's totally reversed.

Joe you are overly generalizing. I grew up in Glen Cove and growing up you had heavily concentrated areas where people lived with their own. The orchard is the perfect example. Was almost all Italian growing up and some of my friends parents I can still barely understand and I've been friends with them for 30 something years.

My family on my dads side ( irish ) moved to brooklyn before he was born and all lived together.

They almost all came here for a better life which is usually economic reasons not much different than people coming here now

I dont think nearly the amount of people you think are here to change this country. They just want a better life

My fiancee speaks 4 languages fluently and a lot of her friends speak a few. They pretty much all speak english better than my own friends including myself

 

[mjmaherjr]

I know the school would probably never do that because it wants to be known as exceptionally diverse, but it's something that needs to be done if we truly want to be a top 75 school.

The thing is the school doesn't want to be nor plans to be a Top 75 school. We have a niche that works. The academics should get better under a new administration but I think being in the 100-125 range of overall undergraduate schools is a realistic goal to set. At our core we are still a commuter school with limited residential space compared to our overall student population and in a city that has schools like NYU, Columbia and Fordham I don't think we have the ammunition to compete as a full residential school that will attract top students from around the country. With that being said there is no reason for our pharmacy school, law school and business school not to be top-notch and in the top 50 of their respective rankings.

It's nice to have good grad programs, but what really makes schools are strong undergrad programs. We need to demand more. Instead of giving the kid with a 3.0 from Haiti a scholarship and admittance, let's give it to a kid with a 3.7 from Haiti. Academics are more important than diversity. In fact, many of the top schools are not very diverse i.e. Villanova, Providence, Boston College, etc. Lots of schools in the area are very selective and only admit 30-35% of applicants. We let in around half. Why is this? The admissions just seem to be very lax...they seem to want to be seen as the UN instead of having a prestigious academic reputation. I just don't agree with that. I don't see any reason we shouldn't have the expectations of say a Fordham in terms of academics once we get more dorms and it turns into a legit dorming campus. Don't get me wrong, if international students or kids from the inner cities really do have good grade i.e. 3.4+ then by all means let them in. But I know a lot of people who go to SJ are the first in their families to get a college degree. I'd avoid being that kind of school. But hey, this is just me.

What I'm saying is why would a top-of-the-class kid go to St. John's when Columbia and NYU are in NYC. We aren't going to compete with those schools ever. Our campus isn't nice enough, we don't have the location or reputation and we certainly don't have the money. I don't want St. John's to be a top school that only admits rich white kids, that's not what St. John's is and it never will or should be. It's easy to say cut admission but to be honest I probably wouldn't have gotten a scholarship to St. John's if it was a school that had the standards of a school like Villanova, which I made but didn't get money from. If every school only admitted kids with great grades and SAT scores then 3/4 of the country would go uneducated.

We have a niche in that we can create scholars out of kids who didn't have the opportunity to because of financial struggles or problems at home. With that being said, we should expand the residential options and cut some of the College of Professional Studies programs that hold the school back and create other programs that have growing employment numbers.

What's so bad about having white kids in a school? This is what I'm afraid of. I don't want SJ admitting a student just because he's black or native american from the inner city with 2.8's over a capable white kid from the suburbs with a 3.7. That's part of the reason we have the current problem with low standards. It should be whoever makes the cut makes it and whoever doesn't does not get in. We need blind admissions. Make race irrelevant and focus on GPA and SAT/ACT scores. I think this country sometimes embraces diversity so much so that it gets crammed down people's throats and replaces standards with quotas...just look at the FDNY and how that failed miserably. I think people should be free to associate. If you don't want diversity and want to go to a 95% white school there is nothing wrong with that. Humans are tribal and by in large stay with their own groups anyway. On the other hand, if a student wants to go to a school with people from all over that's just fine too and there's nothing wrong with it. I just don't want the perception to be that diversity is always better than homogeneity because the truth is it's not. Look at Europe...the multiculturalism is tearing it apart as we speak. I am a numbers and results guy, not in the quota business. That may come off as brash and insensitive, but I don't intend to be.

Just because NYU and Columbia are way more prestigious doesn't mean we can't drastically improve our profile. We live in the biggest metro area in the country and one of the biggest if not THE biggest in the world. There are plenty of smart kids to go around. If SJ raises the profile, we can steal kids from Stony Brook, Fordham, etc. I don't think saying let the best man win the spot is a radical thing to say. I think SJ can balance its diversity agenda with say a 40% acceptance rate becoming at least a fairly selective school. Just food for thought here, interesting discussion. I'm interested to see what the other guys think.

St. John's isn't turning away anyone with a good GPA no matter what skin color they are. The problem isn't that qualified white candidates aren't being admitted. It's that qualified white candidates are choosing other schools over St. John's.

Right, but the very reason that the smart "rich white kids" are choosing other schools is because it is pretty clear SJ chooses diversity over rigor and prestige. The problem the school has parallels the one America has with immigrants today. We think we need to be this country where we let in low skilled, poor 3rd worlders and we think we owe them something. Instead of letting in low skill immigrants from countries with incompatible cultures like Iraq where they want sharia law in America and Europe, we should be letting in a science wizard from Hong Kong.

Wow.

No rebuttal, just a reaction? I'm curious how you would counter.

Well 1st I'd counter that I'm suprised you didnt highlight Villanova in your post

2nd it's interesting you think low skilled workers come from Iraq and science wizards from Hong Kong. Just funny because a long time ago there was an Iranian family on my block and 1 of their kids I think is a scientist now. But maybe it's a big difference being an iranian vs iraqi now after the wars

Just a matter of time before you complain about those hong kong wizards about taking away jobs from your generation though just like you were complaining about old people taking away your generation's opportunities.

BTW it is pretty Ironic that you are worried about Iraqi's wanting Sharia law in the US when we invaded their country. But I wouldn't worry too much since I'm not even sure they represent 1% of immigrants here. I'm not even sure I have even met more than 5 in my life.

I was really just using some quick examples, not necessarily the most obvious ones. There is no way you can deny there is an illegal immigrant invasion in this country of low skilled people from the 3rd world. Studies also show that they don't move up either like past immigrants (who weren't illegal), because they refuse to assimilate. I'm not just talking about illegal immigrants though, also legal immigrants from the 3rd world. There should not be a revolving door in this country...we should be highly selective and only let people in who can make us a better country and offer real skills...same for SJ which is why I made the parallel. Having no standards is never good. I truly feel for the less fortunate of the world and if I was a trillionaire I'd end world hunger, but it's not realistic. I just don't think America should be responsible for other people's bad luck in life. It's like casinos...some will win, some will lose. If you hit the jackpot and some guy comes over and asks you for some, are you going to give it to him? No. You don't owe him a thing...it was just the luck of the draw that you won and he didn't. To stay with the parallel to SJ, I want to attract the winners in life, the ones with a lot going for them, not the ones who don't take school seriously and are only there because of the color of their skin.

Not exclusively obviously, but by in large. My point is that multiculturalism has failed on many fronts but many people refuse to admit it because they will get called the dreaded "r" word. The FDNY was forced to be politically correct and literally give jobs to those who could not perform. What ensued was the worst class of firefighters ever. They couldn't even complete basic training tasks. Is that what we want at SJ? I hope not. And by the way if you don't think there's a massive radical Islam problem in Europe, you haven't been following the news. There are thousands protesting in the streets because the radicals want to install sharia law, beheaded an English soldier, and a soldier in France was just stabbed in the neck by another radical. They also want women treated worse than cattle. Being diverse should not be the #1 ideal...it should be quality first. There is no reason affirmative action should even exist anymore.

But no way in hell would you catching me walking in my brothers old precinct on brooklyn

BTW speaking of my brother he is about to be on channel 7 news right after the next commercial

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9119304

 

[Ben]

"I dont think nearly the amount of people you think are here to change this country. They just want a better life"

You clearly don't live in an area affected at all by illegal immigration. I have seen entire towns change for the worse because of it. From lily picket fences and kids playing in the street to MS-13 graffiti, garbage everywhere, 12 people to a house, and loitering at night. From nice restaurants and mom and pop shops to stores where immigrants can send money back to Mexico. Just talk to people who live in the Texas border towns with illegals running through their backyards throwing their trash everywhere, defecating, etc. They demand that Americans speak Spanish. Please don't compare them to old immigrants from Europe. My ancestors would never dare demand that Italian be spoken. They came to America and understood they were going to have to change. Illegals come here today and say "what can you do for me?". I don't care what color or culture you come from. As long as you assimilate, make it a priority to speak English, and don't bring violence and filth to the streets, then you are ok by me. They came here to keep their own culture and make money. That's not the same as wanting to be American. Most illegals will side with Mexico, Ecuador, or wherever else they are coming from before America.

Do you even know about La Raza and their plan to win their land back via ethnic displacement? My question to you would be, when was there a vote by the American people to become little Mexico? Last I checked, there wasn't. Our government has gone mad. Our joke of border control and immigration policies are changing our country into something completely different than it was 50-60 yrs ago when it was much more successful. Never try to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[mjmaherjr]

"I dont think nearly the amount of people you think are here to change this country. They just want a better life"

You clearly don't live in an area affected at all by illegal immigration. I have seen entire towns change for the worse because of it. From lily picket fences and kids playing in the street to MS-13 graffiti, garbage everywhere, 12 people to a house, and loitering at night. From nice restaurants and mom and pop shops to stores where immigrants can send money back to Mexico. Just talk to people who live in the Texas border towns with illegals running through their backyards throwing their trash everywhere, defecating, etc. They demand that Americans speak Spanish. Please don't compare them to old immigrants from Europe. My ancestors would never dare demand that Italian be spoken. They came to America and understood they were going to have to change. Illegals come here today and say "what can you do for me?". I don't care what color or culture you come from. As long as you assimilate, make it a priority to speak English, and don't bring violence and filth to the streets, then you are ok by me. They came here to keep their own culture and make money. That's not the same as wanting to be American. Most illegals will side with Mexico, Ecuador, or wherever else they are coming from before America.

Do you even know about La Raza and their plan to win their land back via ethnic displacement? My question to you would be, when was there a vote by the American people to become little Mexico? Last I checked, there wasn't. Our government has gone mad. Our joke of border control and immigration policies are changing our country into something completely different than it was 50-60 yrs ago when it was much more successful. Never try to fix something that isn't broken.

Look I'm all for a 100 ft high fence but you are taking such a small sample of immigrants and blowing it up. I know exactly what can happen when areas turn bad. I live in huntington which is right next to huntington station which has gone bad.

You talk about gangs. What about the mafia ? you dont think Irish used to have gangs ? what about the bloods and crypts ?

When I go to Peru everyone switches to english just to make things easier for me. This whole idea that spanish must be spoken here is so overblown to againa fraction of immigrants. I see this first hand. With all due respect I'm not so sure anyone has seen it as close firsthand as I have

 

[otis]

Tons of schools have overseas campuses. The world of business is more and more globally connected every day.

Many people live lives way too sheltered ( I used to be one of them ). People need to go out and see the world. Studying abroad is great exposure to open people up to other things and it gives the school exposure to potentially new students.

MJ,

I respectfully disagree that "tons of schools have overseas campuses".

Below is a LINK to the US News listing of the top study abroad programs offered by US colleges. I searched the top 15 listed and on 2 had international campuses. Both schools that had international campuses had in one case an endowment of over $3.48 B and the other an endowment over $1.1 B.

Given the fact that Harrington has struggled to keep the St. John's endowment up with the rate of inflation during his regime, the overseas campuses seem a bit extravagant. It is hard to justify international campuses for St.John's budget when schools like Dartmouth, American University, Brown University, Villanova and the vast majority of the recognized top study abroad schools have entered into joint agreements with other schools to provide the study abroad opportunities to their students. Not surprisingly St.John's is not recognized as a top study abroad school even with its overseas campuses.

Here's an idea: St.John's could take the money it spends on the overseas campuses and promoted a scholarship program that recruits students from across the nation providing applicants with a 1300 SAT and B average that are from households of $50K or less with a full academic scholarship as well as a full scholarship for any applicant with a 1350 and B+ average. That simple idea could carry out the "Mission" which some profess (and may or may not practice) while simultaneously raising the academic profile of the school. Note: I understand that merit scholarships are already offered by St.John's but someone please explain why the merit programs are not packaged as other schools do and widely advertised (i.e. the Vincentian Scholars Program).

LINK:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/study-abroad-programs

 

[Ben]

"I dont think nearly the amount of people you think are here to change this country. They just want a better life"

You clearly don't live in an area affected at all by illegal immigration. I have seen entire towns change for the worse because of it. From lily picket fences and kids playing in the street to MS-13 graffiti, garbage everywhere, 12 people to a house, and loitering at night. From nice restaurants and mom and pop shops to stores where immigrants can send money back to Mexico. Just talk to people who live in the Texas border towns with illegals running through their backyards throwing their trash everywhere, defecating, etc. They demand that Americans speak Spanish. Please don't compare them to old immigrants from Europe. My ancestors would never dare demand that Italian be spoken. They came to America and understood they were going to have to change. Illegals come here today and say "what can you do for me?". I don't care what color or culture you come from. As long as you assimilate, make it a priority to speak English, and don't bring violence and filth to the streets, then you are ok by me. They came here to keep their own culture and make money. That's not the same as wanting to be American. Most illegals will side with Mexico, Ecuador, or wherever else they are coming from before America.

Do you even know about La Raza and their plan to win their land back via ethnic displacement? My question to you would be, when was there a vote by the American people to become little Mexico? Last I checked, there wasn't. Our government has gone mad. Our joke of border control and immigration policies are changing our country into something completely different than it was 50-60 yrs ago when it was much more successful. Never try to fix something that isn't broken.

Look I'm all for a 100 ft high fence but you are taking such a small sample of immigrants and blowing it up. I know exactly what can happen when areas turn bad. I live in huntington which is right next to huntington station which has gone bad.

You talk about gangs. What about the mafia ? you dont think Irish used to have gangs ? what about the bloods and crypts ?

When I go to Peru everyone switches to english just to make things easier for me. This whole idea that spanish must be spoken here is so overblown to againa fraction of immigrants. I see this first hand. With all due respect I'm not so sure anyone has seen it as close firsthand as I have

I hear this argument so much! The mafia...ok, well I have done a ton of research on the mafia...I've seen countless interviews, inside documentaries, and even have some neighbors who let's just say "may or may not" be involved. This can go on forever, but the main points are: 1. The mafia almost always only hurts those IN the mafia already. Disorganized gangs that minorities have in present day tend to be much more random, and their initiations often include murdering a random person or slashing them or something of the sort. MS-13 is arguably the most violent gang in the US. Go watch some youtube vids about them. This is not some little motorcycle club. Now did John Gotti have an innocent person killed in Howard Beach for accidentally hitting and killing his son while riding his bike? Yes. But it wasn't like it was for no reason. If you go back to his old neighborhood you would hear that he was actually a major family man and even threw block parties for his neighborhood. 2. The mafia had general ethics...they would never kill or harm a child. They would never go rob some old lady or shoot her. These are things other gangs would gladly do because they are way more dangerous and don't have any ethics. The mafia was EXTREMELY organized and controlled. That's why you never hear about them spontaneously shooting people for the hell of it like you do with minority gangs today.

When you went to Peru you were 1 person and you weren't living there. Let's try sending over 12 million white people with Euro cultures to Peru insisting they speak English and force teachers to be bilingual. I'm sure they'd love it! I live near Patchogue which is no doubt more affected than Huntington Station. Every 5 steps there is a spanish sign or a "Latino Express" to send money out of America and back home to Mexico. There is so much tension with the locals that it even led to the stabbing death of an illegal immigrant which is reprehensible. No one should die...that's absurd obviously, but it just goes to show how bad the conflicts are. I remember when I was about 13 walking with a girl and a truck full of immigrants stopped, looked at her and started whistling and yelling stuff at her making sexual gestures. This is not uncommon. Many of them will loiter at midnight outside laundromats or 7-11's and you know what they say "nothing good happens after dark". It just makes people uncomfortable with these guys acting shady whistling at young girls walking by. It seems to be a cultural thing where they think sexual harassment is ok, even with 13 yr old girls when they look to be 50. This stuff is not "a small minority"...I have grown up witnessing this stuff all the time. Ask anyone in an area with a major illegal population. I don't care they're Hispanic...I care how they act. If these were illegal Italian immigrants I'd feel the same way. It's the principle, not the skin color.

For every 100 illegal aliens who find jobs in the U.S., 65 American workers are displaced.

Each year, more than 72,000 aliens are arrested for drug offenses in the U.S.

Illegal aliens constitute over 25% of the federal prison population. Think about that for a moment. This means that a group which comprises less than 5% of the population is committing 25% percent of the crime.

Approximately 400,000 illegal aliens who have committed crimes and have been given a deportation order are at large in the U.S. and their whereabouts unknown.

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

These are not the same immigrants that came from Italy, Germany, and Ireland. Not even close.

 

[STJ11Redmen]

I don't understand what any of this has to do with diversity at St. John's. The guys in gangs and prisons aren't the ones attending St. John's.

 

[Ben]

I don't understand what any of this has to do with diversity at St. John's. The guys in gangs and prisons aren't the ones attending St. John's.

Yea, sorry got off topic there with a side conversation. My main point is that diversity is not this great strength that everyone tries to make it seem. It's one of those things that is very fashionable to say, but doesn't make any sense when you actually think about it. It sounds nice, so we allow it. The biggest threat to St. John's and the US is the lack of the ability to say the words "no", or "enough". You don't have to accept nearly everyone. I think getting rid of affirmative action alone would significantly help improve the incoming classes. As I said before, leave the "bring me your weak, bring me your poor" mindset to the community colleges and trade schools.

 

[mjmaherjr]

"I dont think nearly the amount of people you think are here to change this country. They just want a better life"

You clearly don't live in an area affected at all by illegal immigration. I have seen entire towns change for the worse because of it. From lily picket fences and kids playing in the street to MS-13 graffiti, garbage everywhere, 12 people to a house, and loitering at night. From nice restaurants and mom and pop shops to stores where immigrants can send money back to Mexico. Just talk to people who live in the Texas border towns with illegals running through their backyards throwing their trash everywhere, defecating, etc. They demand that Americans speak Spanish. Please don't compare them to old immigrants from Europe. My ancestors would never dare demand that Italian be spoken. They came to America and understood they were going to have to change. Illegals come here today and say "what can you do for me?". I don't care what color or culture you come from. As long as you assimilate, make it a priority to speak English, and don't bring violence and filth to the streets, then you are ok by me. They came here to keep their own culture and make money. That's not the same as wanting to be American. Most illegals will side with Mexico, Ecuador, or wherever else they are coming from before America.

Do you even know about La Raza and their plan to win their land back via ethnic displacement? My question to you would be, when was there a vote by the American people to become little Mexico? Last I checked, there wasn't. Our government has gone mad. Our joke of border control and immigration policies are changing our country into something completely different than it was 50-60 yrs ago when it was much more successful. Never try to fix something that isn't broken.

Look I'm all for a 100 ft high fence but you are taking such a small sample of immigrants and blowing it up. I know exactly what can happen when areas turn bad. I live in huntington which is right next to huntington station which has gone bad.

You talk about gangs. What about the mafia ? you dont think Irish used to have gangs ? what about the bloods and crypts ?

When I go to Peru everyone switches to english just to make things easier for me. This whole idea that spanish must be spoken here is so overblown to againa fraction of immigrants. I see this first hand. With all due respect I'm not so sure anyone has seen it as close firsthand as I have

I hear this argument so much! The mafia...ok, well I have done a ton of research on the mafia...I've seen countless interviews, inside documentaries, and even have some neighbors who let's just say "may or may not" be involved. This can go on forever, but the main points are: 1. The mafia almost always only hurts those IN the mafia already. Disorganized gangs that minorities have in present day tend to be much more random, and their initiations often include murdering a random person or slashing them or something of the sort. MS-13 is arguably the most violent gang in the US. Go watch some youtube vids about them. This is not some little motorcycle club. Now did John Gotti have an innocent person killed in Howard Beach for accidentally hitting and killing his son while riding his bike? Yes. But it wasn't like it was for no reason. If you go back to his old neighborhood you would hear that he was actually a major family man and even threw block parties for his neighborhood. 2. The mafia had general ethics...they would never kill or harm a child. They would never go rob some old lady or shoot her. These are things other gangs would gladly do because they are way more dangerous and don't have any ethics. The mafia was EXTREMELY organized and controlled. That's why you never hear about them spontaneously shooting people for the hell of it like you do with minority gangs today.

When you went to Peru you were 1 person and you weren't living there. Let's try sending over 12 million white people with Euro cultures to Peru insisting they speak English and force teachers to be bilingual. I'm sure they'd love it! I live near Patchogue which is no doubt more affected than Huntington Station. Every 5 steps there is a spanish sign or a "Latino Express" to send money out of America and back home to Mexico. There is so much tension with the locals that it even led to the stabbing death of an illegal immigrant which is reprehensible. No one should die...that's absurd obviously, but it just goes to show how bad the conflicts are. I remember when I was about 13 walking with a girl and a truck full of immigrants stopped, looked at her and started whistling and yelling stuff at her making sexual gestures. This is not uncommon. Many of them will loiter at midnight outside laundromats or 7-11's and you know what they say "nothing good happens after dark". It just makes people uncomfortable with these guys acting shady whistling at young girls walking by. It seems to be a cultural thing where they think sexual harassment is ok, even with 13 yr old girls when they look to be 50. This stuff is not "a small minority"...I have grown up witnessing this stuff all the time. Ask anyone in an area with a major illegal population. I don't care they're Hispanic...I care how they act. If these were illegal Italian immigrants I'd feel the same way. It's the principle, not the skin color.

For every 100 illegal aliens who find jobs in the U.S., 65 American workers are displaced.

Each year, more than 72,000 aliens are arrested for drug offenses in the U.S.

Illegal aliens constitute over 25% of the federal prison population. Think about that for a moment. This means that a group which comprises less than 5% of the population is committing 25% percent of the crime.

Approximately 400,000 illegal aliens who have committed crimes and have been given a deportation order are at large in the U.S. and their whereabouts unknown.

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

These are not the same immigrants that came from Italy, Germany, and Ireland. Not even close.

You romanticize the mafia wayyy to much. As much as it seems like I know way too many people when I talk about things in my profession and personal life I actually do. I have clients now friends 3 sons and a wife who will certainly disagree with you that the mafia only goes after their own. #1 they are jewish #2 not one of them or thier business partners ever got convicted of anything when the govt cracked down on their industry. Let's just say they resisted.

I will pm you info so you can see.

Again lets cut out 90% of what you said because I'm against illegal immigration

But let me just go to your 1st stat. Be leery of when you google something and either left wing or right wing stuff pops up in the 1st 20 results.

Lets think about this. If 100 illegal aliens are here and they are displacing 65 american jobs what jobs are they displacing ?

Just answer that

 

[lxg]

I agree , especially considering my experience in Tobin's MBA program. Although I believe that the top 10% - 20% of Tobin's MBA alumni are competitive with MBA graduates from top schools, a significant portion of the business school's student body was not fully capable of doing the work. The average Professor in Tobin instructs at a level, which requires significantly greater qualification upon entry than what the school currently allows. And I suspect that this problem is much more prevalent across the entire university. The law and pharmacy schools are two exceptions. Qualified students (not only those classified as white) are selecting schools with better academic profiles, when the perceived difference among financial aid packages becomes less material. Here's another problem: By not raising the academic profile, candidates are choosing more selective CUNY schools, with public sector sponsored tuition costs that are much lower. St. John's should focus its selection process on the very best students from the most impoverished backgrounds, which is in sync with the university's mission: It specifically states that it provides educational opportunity to "those who need it most". The key word here is "most", which implies that the university is obligated to be academically selective, within its immigrant and financially challenged segments.

 

[Pleasedontbanmeagain]

I agree , especially considering my experience in Tobin's MBA program. Although I believe that the top 10% - 20% of Tobin's MBA alumni are competitive with MBA graduates from top schools, a significant portion of the business school's student body was not fully capable of doing the work. The average Professor in Tobin instructs at a level, which requires significantly greater qualification upon entry than what the school currently allows. And I suspect that this problem is much more prevalent across the entire university. The law and pharmacy schools are two exceptions. Qualified students (not only those classified as white) are selecting schools with better academic profiles, when the perceived difference among financial aid packages becomes less material. Here's another problem: By not raising the academic profile, candidates are choosing more selective CUNY schools, with public sector sponsored tuition costs that are much lower. St. John's should focus its selection process on the very best students from the most impoverished backgrounds, which is in sync with the university's mission: It specifically states that it provides educational opportunity to "those who need it most". The key word here is "most", which implies that the university is obligated to be academically selective, within its immigrant and financially challenged segments.

Since when was there this overflowing pool of very bright students in "the most impoverished areas"? The few that exist will get full rides to much better schools than us. I just don't understand why it's so taboo to allow your typical suburbanite white kid with a solid 3.5 into the school. If that's really the school's mission to accept poor people with poor education (true most of the time) and we hold steadfast to it, then our standards will never be high. There is a clear choice here, diversity at all costs, or standards. I pick standards.

 

[beast of the east]

I agree , especially considering my experience in Tobin's MBA program. Although I believe that the top 10% - 20% of Tobin's MBA alumni are competitive with MBA graduates from top schools, a significant portion of the business school's student body was not fully capable of doing the work. The average Professor in Tobin instructs at a level, which requires significantly greater qualification upon entry than what the school currently allows. And I suspect that this problem is much more prevalent across the entire university. The law and pharmacy schools are two exceptions. Qualified students (not only those classified as white) are selecting schools with better academic profiles, when the perceived difference among financial aid packages becomes less material. Here's another problem: By not raising the academic profile, candidates are choosing more selective CUNY schools, with public sector sponsored tuition costs that are much lower. St. John's should focus its selection process on the very best students from the most impoverished backgrounds, which is in sync with the university's mission: It specifically states that it provides educational opportunity to "those who need it most". The key word here is "most", which implies that the university is obligated to be academically selective, within its immigrant and financially challenged segments.

I'll say it again and again: The university's student population - 40% Pell eligible - is such because it's profitable to do so. The federal government pays $5,550 for each student per year. If St John's has 20,000 students, with 8,000 receiving Pell grants, that's a cool $44 million to the university. Saddle those kids with low interest federal student loans, throw in a bunch of steep discounts via SJU grants and "scholarships", and I guarantee you SJU is turning a big profit on its "mission" to assist the poor. It's a racket, nothing more. The university does not want, and will not EVER raise it's academic profile, because they will never become more selective. Why won't the become more selective??? To do so, they'd have to admit less students. How are you going to be more selective unless you have a better pool of applicants? How are you going to have better applicants, unless you invest in top notch faculty? How are you going to be a top school when administrators are less qualified and lower paid than their counterparts at top schools?

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Beast FYI..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324659404578504761168566272.html


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578527271492503756.html?KEYWORDS=mooc's+and+books

 

[lxg]

So we're making essentially the same argument: Standards. However, bright students who happen to come from impoverished areas are prime candidates, who tend to choose from among academically better schools. No one said there was a "pool", even though this type of candidate clearly exists, as referenced by conventional media sources.

 

[lxg]

We know that tuition is their revenue model. And the only way to remedy that degree of dependency or at least somewhat alleviate it is to expand endowment operations. I remember a conversation, in which a Columbia Business School MBA grad reminded a Fordham MBA grad that St. John's Tobin actually took some steps to hire better faculty, and that the university's direction towards expanding the endowment was the key to eventually raising standards, for the long-term: The Tobin School advertised on Columbia's web site, for a while back then seeking faculty candidates. Aside from that, we also know that all top schools have large endowments, and I haven't seen any exceptions to this rule (although a few may exist). It would also help if they refocused more of the capital project spending to better subsidize tuition, and scale back some of the recreational development.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast FYI..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324659404578504761168566272.html


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578527271492503756.html?KEYWORDS=mooc's+and+books

Interesting articles, JSJ, thanks. We have to have lunch soon, as you suggested at the Lapchick event.

On line courses make you wonder how much students actually learn by attending classes as opposed to simply reading assigned texts and studying. It's funny that Georgia Tech is offering an online degree in technology. It's one of the few disciplines I would have thought where students would benefit by live instructors to answers questions, correct errors, etc.

 

[beast of the east]

We know that tuition is their revenue model. And the only way to remedy that degree of dependency or at least somewhat alleviate it is to expand endowment operations. I remember a conversation, in which a Columbia Business School MBA grad reminded a Fordham MBA grad that St. John's Tobin actually took some steps to hire better faculty, and that the university's direction towards expanding the endowment was the key to eventually raising standards, for the long-term: The Tobin School advertised on Columbia's web site, for a while back then seeking faculty candidates. Aside from that, we also know that all top schools have large endowments, and I haven't seen any exceptions to this rule (although a few may exist). It would also help if they refocused more of the capital project spending to better subsidize tuition, and scale back some of the recreational development.

Hey.. thanks for the well written and intelligent posts. I do think that the endowment of top schools are kind of chicken and egg. Top schools attract top students, who have more career success. Top 3% earners have more discretionary income, and turn large sums back into charitable endeavors, which include universities. Pumping dollars back into their alma mater allows the school to not only spend on better faculty and maintain and renew campuses, but on scholarships to keep attracting top students. Then again, nice buildings and dorms, amenities like health clubs, and winning sports teams also attract top students. There is an entire product offering that figures into making a school great.

Father Harrington undoubtedly improved the Queens campus, grew Staten Island, and added foreign campuses. I would also have to believe that we now attract students from a much wider geographical reach than the pre-dorm era. Hopefully the incoming President will have an impact on improving other aspects of the University "product offering" to improve the standing of the university, but as I've mentioned before, universities are businesses, and SJU has been fairly successful in its current niche.

 

[lxg]

"SJU has been fairly successful in its current niche" - Beast of the East

- Until Now. You are correct, and even non-profits are supposed to have a financial bottom line. I'm not sure that I would completely agree that they're businesses in a conventional sernse: A real firm would've gone out of business a long time ago (even with instituted protectionism from market forces), with the current level of mis-management I suspected back then. I say that they're businesses in the sense of being what's called "overpriced reputational goods". Scale up the infrastructure and spend heavily on global branding. Higher tuition is one of the resultant side effects, or should I correctly state intended effects, according to their revenue model.

Although Harrington has taken SJU a long way, his tenure also had some serious drawbacks. I heard (a few times) that he actively pushed to keep admissions standards down across certain academic sectors of the university. If this allegation is true, then such behavior is highly objectionable. But back to your last statement. The problem that SJU faces now is that they want to run the university unencumbered, while seeking alumni donations to expand the endowment. It looks safe on the surface, until alumni start attaching individually and collectively their donation consideration to certain conditions. We're already seeing this occur. The next President will be forced to move the university in a more academic direction, because too many alumni are closely monitoring the university's current events and academic standing. The question will be - how will this be successfully executed? I think that from a realistic standpoint, the school's media should focus more on it's Pharmacy, Law, and MBA programs. I think that the business school right now needs a serious shake-up, at the administration level. And I'm talking about the possibility of bringing in a new dean with a steep corporate background. The pharmacy program is making strides, while SJU Law seems to have gone on a hiring spree selecting new faculty with JDs from top 10 law schools.

Regarding the Manhattan campus, the business school never used the space properly. And in a city with the highest concentration of business schools per square foot, they had better lease an alternate downtown location fast: Queens won't cut it anymore. Top European bschools are already setting up shop in Manhattan with more top competitors, on the way. Even schools within Tobin's competitive range like Fordham are quickly expanding their offerings to meet current demand. This is the reality, at present. The product offering has to be configured in a more academic direction, but through unconventional means. Based on a law of averages, top students tend to select schools based on superior academics relative to financial aid package offerings, even when other expected leisure amenities are taken into consideration. In that contention, there is a very specific competitive advantage that the university can use against better academically endowed competitors: Continue the improvement of financial aid subsidies, and begin to market this portion of the product mix on a global scale. That's SJU's unique selling advantage in the $100K+ 4-year tuition space.

 

[beast of the east]

"SJU has been fairly successful in its current niche" - Beast of the East

- Until Now. You are correct, and even non-profits are supposed to have a financial bottom line. I'm not sure that I would completely agree that they're businesses in a conventional sernse: A real firm would've gone out of business a long time ago (even with instituted protectionism from market forces), with the current level of mis-management I suspected back then. I say that they're businesses in the sense of being what's called "overpriced reputational goods". Scale up the infrastructure and spend heavily on global branding. Higher tuition is one of the resultant side effects, or should I correctly state intended effects, according to their revenue model.

Although Harrington has taken SJU a long way, his tenure also had some serious drawbacks. I heard (a few times) that he actively pushed to keep admissions standards down across certain academic sectors of the university. If this allegation is true, then such behavior is highly objectionable. But back to your last statement. The problem that SJU faces now is that they want to run the university unencumbered, while seeking alumni donations to expand the endowment. It looks safe on the surface, until alumni start attaching individually and collectively their donation consideration to certain conditions. We're already seeing this occur. The next President will be forced to move the university in a more academic direction, because too many alumni are closely monitoring the university's current events and academic standing. The question will be - how will this be successfully executed? I think that from a realistic standpoint, the school's media should focus more on it's Pharmacy, Law, and MBA programs. I think that the business school right now needs a serious shake-up, at the administration level. And I'm talking about the possibility of bringing in a new dean with a steep corporate background. The pharmacy program is making strides, while SJU Law seems to have gone on a hiring spree selecting new faculty with JDs from top 10 law schools.

Regarding the Manhattan campus, the business school never used the space properly. And in a city with the highest concentration of business schools per square foot, they had better lease an alternate downtown location fast: Queens won't cut it anymore. Top European bschools are already setting up shop in Manhattan with more top competitors, on the way. Even schools within Tobin's competitive range like Fordham are quickly expanding their offerings to meet current demand. This is the reality, at present. The product offering has to be configured in a more academic direction, but through unconventional means. Based on a law of averages, top students tend to select schools based on superior academics relative to financial aid package offerings, even when other expected leisure amenities are taken into consideration. In that contention, there is a very specific competitive advantage that the university can use against better academically endowed competitors: Continue the improvement of financial aid subsidies, and begin the market this portion of the product mix on a global scale. That's SJU's unique selling advantage in the $100K+ 4-year tuition space.

There are so many components to creating a great university, and you've hit on many of them. On the college selection circuit once again, I was browsing the USnews report, and discovered that a university had its ranking increased based on improvements in graduates findings employment. I think this is one area that SJU with an incredibly strong local alumni, could really deliver the goods if they had talented administrators who would work hard in selling SJU grads to alumni. It's an area all of us in the position of hiring SJU grads could help.

While attending a Boston College tour, which beings with an information session (packed to the gills), student presenters spoke about the many internship opportunities available to BC students. Parents and prospective students were quite interested in hearing this. I raised my hand and asked if most of these opportunities were in Boston, and was told that no, they are mostly in NYC.

I guess one way that concerned alumni could help raise our academic profile is to hire SJU interns and graduates. After all, the thing all students, including high achievers, want is a job after they graduate. Apparently this is part of the criteria for US News uses to rate colleges and universities.