Holy Cross Forms Commission Over Mascot
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Class of 72
Active member
The libtard editors of the Crusader and a handful of students that are advocating for the name and mascot change have made the outlandish claim that "some students" do not feel "safe" on campus because of the reference to "Crusaders". 
One would assume they are referring to the handful of muslim students that attend Holy Cross and who make up less than 0.015 % of the student population in 2017. A HC alum even reached out to Somaliland to enroll a few students.
I doubt it refers to Jewish students since the handful (as in one hand) that identified as Jewish are even fewer than muslim students.
So, one has to ask "who are these students that do not feel safe"??
African American students make up a little more than 3% of 2,769 students. Could one of them have been offended by the newspaper's name which is the same as the KKK's news bulletin? Who would have even thought to look up that coincidence of minutia? Doubt it was them.
So, at the College of the Holy Cross my suspect would be a white Christian “Islamic apologist”.
So, while Islam, like all religions, preaches love and peace, as the Prohet Muhammad stated that " Christians living within the realm of the Islamic state are granted freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. ", Islamic clergy, universities and many muslims today would rather die than be called "Christian Apologists".
Hence the holy land of Islam Saudi Arabia does not allow Christians to practice their faith openly. Because of that Christians generally only worship within private homes. Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited. These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols.
So, while those young Holy Cross students feel for those who are offended by the symbol of the Cross while attending a university named Holy Cross, one would wonder if any of them would have the balls to openly practice their Christian faith at the top Islamic university in the world, King Saud University in Saudi Arabia?
Would they feel safe there given the Saudis practice Wahhabism, a strict interpretation of the Quran?
Ironically, they are our biggest allies in the middle east.
So, while Fun quoted the Bible I offer you a few verses from the "Holy" Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Religion is not for the faint hearted!
One would assume they are referring to the handful of muslim students that attend Holy Cross and who make up less than 0.015 % of the student population in 2017. A HC alum even reached out to Somaliland to enroll a few students.
I doubt it refers to Jewish students since the handful (as in one hand) that identified as Jewish are even fewer than muslim students.
So, one has to ask "who are these students that do not feel safe"??
African American students make up a little more than 3% of 2,769 students. Could one of them have been offended by the newspaper's name which is the same as the KKK's news bulletin? Who would have even thought to look up that coincidence of minutia? Doubt it was them.
So, at the College of the Holy Cross my suspect would be a white Christian “Islamic apologist”.
So, while Islam, like all religions, preaches love and peace, as the Prohet Muhammad stated that " Christians living within the realm of the Islamic state are granted freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. ", Islamic clergy, universities and many muslims today would rather die than be called "Christian Apologists".
Hence the holy land of Islam Saudi Arabia does not allow Christians to practice their faith openly. Because of that Christians generally only worship within private homes. Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited. These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols.
So, while those young Holy Cross students feel for those who are offended by the symbol of the Cross while attending a university named Holy Cross, one would wonder if any of them would have the balls to openly practice their Christian faith at the top Islamic university in the world, King Saud University in Saudi Arabia?
Would they feel safe there given the Saudis practice Wahhabism, a strict interpretation of the Quran?
Ironically, they are our biggest allies in the middle east.
So, while Fun quoted the Bible I offer you a few verses from the "Holy" Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Religion is not for the faint hearted!
The libtard editors of the Crusader and a handful of students that are advocating for the name and mascot change have made the outlandish claim that "some students" do not feel "safe" on campus because of the reference to "Crusaders".
One would assume they are referring to the handful of muslim students that attend Holy Cross and who make up less than 0.015 % of the student population in 2017. A HC alum even reached out to Somaliland to enroll a few students.
I doubt it refers to Jewish students since the handful (as in one hand) that identified as Jewish are even fewer than muslim students.
So, one has to ask "who are these students that do not feel safe"??
African American students make up a little more than 3% of 2,769 students. Could one of them have been offended by the newspaper's name which is the same as the KKK's news bulletin? Who would have even thought to look up that coincidence of minutia? Doubt it was them.
So, at the College of the Holy Cross my suspect would be a white Christian “Islamic apologist”.
So, while Islam, like all religions, preaches love and peace, as the Prohet Muhammad stated that " Christians living within the realm of the Islamic state are granted freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. ", Islamic clergy, universities and many muslims today would rather die than be called "Christian Apologists".
Hence the holy land of Islam Saudi Arabia does not allow Christians to practice their faith openly. Because of that Christians generally only worship within private homes. Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited. These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols.
So, while those young Holy Cross students feel for those who are offended by the symbol of the Cross while attending a university named Holy Cross, one would wonder if any of them would have the balls to openly practice their Christian faith at the top Islamic university in the world, King Saud University in Saudi Arabia?
Would they feel safe there given the Saudis practice Wahhabism, a strict interpretation of the Quran?
Ironically, they are our biggest allies in the middle east.
The problem with what you just did was to reduce yourself to an ISIS or even a libtard mentality because it is not even a strict interpretation, it is just wrong, which ISIS and libtards are famous for. So allow me to correct you because not only are you taking things out of context, you are not even getting the main message ... and perhaps by doing this, I enlighten you ... see below
So, while Fun quoted the Bible I offer you a few verses from the "Holy" Quran:
This and the 2 verses lay down unequivocally that only self-defence (in the widest sense of the word) makes war permissible for Muslims. It is just that simple because suicide and laying down and dying is not the message just like in "sports".
It would have been good if you read the verse just before: Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and 1 shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and 1 shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.
These verses are addressed to all who revere Jesus (both Christians and Muslims who regard him as a prophet) as well as to those who deny him altogether. Regarding God's promise to Jesus, "I shall exalt thee unto Me" ...
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". [\quote]
the actual translation is dread, emptiness (not terror) in that people who adopt false gods such as "money" material things are usually in dread and emptiness.
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. [\quote]
Again here if you have a condition that you are only allowed to fight in self-defense, that suicide is not an option, and that slavery is worst than death ... you goddamn right you go down fighting
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".[\quote]
Again ... meaningless.
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" [\quote]
A better translation is this "AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth!" They deserve the imprecation of God! How perverted are their minds! end translation ..
What the verse is trying to convey is the abhorrence of the elevation of a human being to the status of a quasi-divine law-giver and the blasphemous attribution to God - albeit metaphorically - of the quality of "sonship" in relation to God. in this connection Exodus iv, 22-23 ("Israel is My son") or Jeremiah xxxi, 9 ("I am a father to Israel"): expressions to which, because of their idolatrous implications, the Qur'an takes strong exception. And so did Jesus when he destroyed the idols in the famed Jewish temple. Remember also when that dude Moses went up to the mountain and while he is away a gold cow idol was sculpted and people ran amok commitment all sorts STDs
Class of 72
Active member
Dear Uzi, like Dr. Fun my quotations were meant to be sarcastic examples of the hypocrisy of religions and how biblical and Quranic verses can be manipulated by those with malintent. The "non stupid" see the various religious verses written within the context and mentality of the time they were written.
Most know that Arab muslim armies conquered their pagan, Jewish and Christian neighbors not for religious reasons but economic and military domination reasons.
HOWEVER, by the time of the Prophet Muhammad's death in A.D. 632, the Muslims had already subdued and converted their pagan opponents within the Arabian peninsula through wars that Muslims fought largely in self-defense.
The era that followed under the rule of the first four caliphs bore witness to Islam's most far-reaching and successful conquests. Muslim forces continued to advance into Spain, Central and South Asia, Eastern Europe, while repeatedly laying siege to the ancient Byzantine Christian capital of Constantinople -- finally taken by a Muslim army in 1453.
Since it was originally thought of as an Arab religion forced conversions were not its primary goal yet all non-Muslims were considered non-believers and conquered populations were reduced to being second class citizens.
While there has always been the ability to practice other faiths in muslim countries (except Saudi Arabia and a handful of other states), in many Muslim countries, for example, it is illegal for Christians to "proselytize," by which it is believed that non-Muslims are using incentives in order to convince Muslims to drop their faith. In muslim countries like Egypt and Pakistan, it boils over into anger and the followers of the religion of love burn churches and murder the Unbelievers. It's an example of a religion that originated as being tolerant to the "modern" and skewed interpretations of the Quran as being intolerant.
The verses I quoted are interpreted strictly "as written" by millions of muslims around the world. Which, according to you, proves that there are millions of stupid muslims.
Even educated muslims manipulate the verses of the Quran into satanic verses. Not enough muslims denounce the stupid muslims so as not to offend "fellow" muslims. Inadvertently, they get lumped into the same anti-west, anti-Christian religious followers of the book. Being criticized for their silence many all over the world take the defensive view of Islam even in the non-muslim countries they emigrated to such as England, Germany and Netherlands.
Which brings us back to the issue of the Cross and the term Crusaders.
Are you offended by the term? Are you offended by the symbol of the Cross?
I am proposing that Islamist Apologists are behind the wheel at the College of the Holy Cross not muslims themselves.
Conversely, should Christian students or Christians in general be intimidated by the scimitar displayed on the flags of many Muslim states? The Saif al-Islam, "Sword of submission to Allah", while used to conquer Christian Spain and other states was used for defending the muslim conquests.
What do you see as a difference between the scimitar and cross as used in modern times.
Dear Class of 72
Thank you for your explanations. The problem with interpreting anything is the perspectives and biases we have and often history is told from the perspective of the eventual winner. Then there are just simply wrong interpretations because they are snippets of a story. For example, I can take snippets out of a Shakespeare's play and interpret that he promoted mass murder. In any case, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic religions, and Islam's claim to be the last in an evolving religious approach means by definition that Jews and Christians cannot be termed non-believers ... because the main idea promoted in Abraham's lineage is the unity and oneness of God.
In Myanmar Buddhists are murdering Muslims, and I thought i would never see a day when Buddhism would be corrupted and it entail mass murder ... the point being that religion is just one factor out of many that promotes intolerance. I believe this is where Dr. Fun speaks about the myopia and seeing things out of singular perspectives like religion, race, class, gender, politics and so on.
I believe a moral framework and morality is innate to our (and other) specie, and the question that begs us is that while we have primal emotions like fear, hate, anger, greed, lust that the specie needed to survive... why did we develop higher emotions such as love, compassion and empathy? I believe these were also needed for survival as well including that we stop going around murdering each other. So our specie is a major anamoly, meaning it is capable of being the vilest as well as noblest (Jessus' mass social movement based on the oneness and love for that oneness natural force there is ... some call it Jehovah, God, Allah ... so the next question is not why even educated muslims manipulate the verses of the Quran into satanic verses? the real question is why does our specie tends to be biased towards primal emotions while love, compassion and empathy are also innate to us? One explanation is our primal emotions have been with us longer
hence our default position. I think societies as influenced by movements led by Abraham onwards developed religion as to tool to harness our higher emotions and aspirations like empathy, which unfortunately cannot easily overcome our primal emotions.
I come from the Orwellian school of thought in that thought crime does not entail death, thought crime is death
so the richer the language remains the more freedom is possible ... so if you look at the Holy Cross issue from this perspective the issue is not about religion it is about power and partiularly the power to suppress.I think the scimitar is a more efficient tool for killing
"I believe a moral framework and morality is innate to our (and other) specie, and the question that begs us is that while we have primal emotions like fear, hate, anger, greed, lust that the specie needed to survive... why did we develop higher emotions such as love, compassion and empathy?"
Ez-Uzi, most powerful stuff I have seen in recent years were the 60 minutes pieces from the Yale Infant Behavior Lab. Powerful pictures of the true nature of us and probably available on U-tube.
Ez-Uzi, most powerful stuff I have seen in recent years were the 60 minutes pieces from the Yale Infant Behavior Lab. Powerful pictures of the true nature of us and probably available on U-tube.
Class of 72
Active member
Then my apologies.
I do agree that we have been at war with each other since the beginning whenever that was.
Ironically you chose the old testament to give examples of acts of war (pogroms) supposedly committed by the Israelites at God's command and ended your verse quites with Moses directing ethnic cleansing and genocide. I'm sure Fuchsia knew the difference between a pogram and a program.
Maybe you weren't being sarcastic for a change of pace. However using the Jewish old testament to describe "pogram" is, if not sarcastic, then it would be in your usual poor taste. From the original Russian pogroms to the Holocaust pograms most of us would relate pograms to the persecution of the Jewish people.
My using the Quran in this debate over the College of the Holy Cross conundrum regarding the use of word "crusader" and associated symbol was to show how almost anything from ancient scriptures written by human beings can be manipulated and interpreted differently depending on the writer's intentions.
Not meaning to offend anyone I personally think much, if not most, of what is written in the various "holy books" are works of fiction meant to teach an ancient and uneducated people about the wrath of God, who may or may not forgive them of their sins. Those not forgiven will go to place called hell and those forgiven will go to heaven.
Again, using the Quran, half the world will go to hell since they either don't believe in one God or believe in many Gods.
An unknown percentage of the rest of the world will also go to hell because "religious scholars" have interpreted the verses differently.
So, many, if not most Christians will be on the fence at the time of judgment because they believe in the holy Trinity.
The Jews may be better off since they are still awaiting the Messiah.
I think most of the world better get with the basic "program" i,e., Respect each other regardless of religious belief.
The 10 commandments basically covers the rest.
Class of 72
Active member
Very interesting!
I'm sure millions have been spent on the study of human behavior but the most insightful may have come from an old Chinese farmer a few thousand years ago. A neighboring farmer's son was caught stealing fruit from his orchard. The boy's father had also stolen from him as did the grandfather. After these observations he deduced that "the apple never falls far from the tree". No matter what those Yalie infants do usually most will eventually have a similar character or similar qualities to his or her parents.
Yeah, not quite. In the first place, I cited one passage, from the book of numbers, it comprising the most ancient slaughter I could think of off the top of my head. I cited it to refute the ludicrous notion that the Crusaders invented mass murder, a past time humans have engaged in since they climbed down from the trees and at which the Crusaders were rank amateur. It's common mythology among leftists and others hard of thinking that primordial man frolicked gaily amongst the flowers in peace and harmony until corrupted by capitalism and indoor plumbing, which is complete and utter twaddle, man being the most pernicious species of vermin nature has suffered to crawl across the face of the earth, humanity being a dung heap, and history being the story of those humans stupid and vain enough to attempt its summit. Everyone has been killing everyone forever and probably most of them deserved it. The waging of war is one of the things that separates us from the animals.
In the second I don't find religious persons anymore hypocritical than I find anyone else and have no interest in exposing their alleged hypocrisies. I do not think - as do so many today that it almost qualifies as a sport - that discovering hypocrisy uncovers the worst sin, a thought crime much worse than the physical sin the alleged hypocrite warns against. On the contrary, I find that sort of cheap sophistry to be the worst sin. And despite my own conclusions regarding the nature of the universe - that it is a chaotic miasma of cheap venality and murder - I don't begrudge the religious the solace of their beliefs and neither do I hold them in contempt for them. On the contrary, mostly I envy them.
Finally, if fuchsia had the opportunity to say "... equal opportunity pogroms. They killed everybody" and avoided it on purple he should be horse whipped, because that's a great line. I don't find it particularly offensive - it's not like we're at yeshiva and at any rate pogrom doesn't have the Semitic cachet of say Holocaust - but then I have a pretty high bar when it comes to such things.
Dear Class of 72
Actually by citing indiscriminate lines from the Quran you first suggest it is a violent religion which justifies mass murder and second that even if the words are taken out of its context the reader who interprets verses will find justification because they are mass murders in disguise, and ultimately you are implicitly justifying the mass murder perpetrated by crusaders in a long lineage of mass murder by our specie.
Perhaps it is better to understand how the Crusades changed religious relationships by looking at what actually happened. These were a series of religious wars between Christians and Muslims started by Christians to basically get back control of sacred and holy sites (that both considered sacred). The crusades started in 1096 and went on to 1291.These wars were bloody, violent and ruthless and brought Europeans major contenders for the fight for land in the Middle East. In the lands that Muslims were occupying the crusades meant the ruthless and widespread massacre of Muslims, Jews and other non-Christians ... causing a masive fracture in religious relationship that even today a faction of Muslims call the West's involvement in the Middle East a “crusade.”
Add to this your interpretation (poetic no) that half of the population is going to hell (and Christians are on the fence but Jews in slightly better place) whereas the Quran states categorically 2:62 "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah [God] and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."
The issue is simply (and does not require a jaunt into Quranic misinterpretation) whether Crusaders even now evoke real animosity, sensitivity and conflict? because I am not sure if it should still ... and the other questions about religious tolerance in Holy Cross and the treatment of Muslims (evoked by the imagery of the crusades) could be a consideration?
Class of 72
Active member
Dear Uzi,
I am not citing indescriminate lines from the Quran since the Quran to the non muslim appears to be rife with ancient verses that were meant for the people of the time and today is misinterpreted to suit the intended audience. ISIS has done it to recruit soldiers in its battle against civilized people of any religion. The Bible too is full of stories written in a particular time and place meant to convey a religious message.
If you are a Muslim I have no intention of singling Muslims out as mass murderers, slave traders, sexist male dominated bigots, or whatever. Christianity has no more or no less bad history or bad press in modern society. Said society inludes Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, Agnostics and hundreds of millions of traditional folk religion followers clearly identified by the Quran as "non-belivers". Unless they all have a religious epiphany before they meet the grim reaper they (I will leave to you to quote the Quran) will not enter the pearly gates or be rewarded with virgins but will be condemned for the rest of eternity to hot and humid Macquarie Island without air conditioning or indoor plumbing. I'm not sure about the so called Sabians but if they ever existed hopefully they are at peace.
As to what really happened I am sure there are many interpretations. Yes, it was started by some nasty Popes who likely were pissed that their mistresses had cheated on them with a Jew or muslim and thousands of crusaders were no better than the nazis or jihadists of the modern era.
Where did I "first suggest Islam is a violent religion which justifies mass murder"? It may be a coincidence that the Arab muslim armies conquered their neighbors including Spain and the Levant by waging war that caused hundreds of thousands to perish. The same goes for the Ottoman muslims. Before the Christians and Muslim armies there were the Romans in that part of the world. Thus the same crap went down with war, murders, slavery before Christ or Muhammad. It was part of the human evolution of the war machine that still thrives today.
Thus, when you say
"and the other questions about religious tolerance in Holy Cross and the treatment of Muslims (evoked by the imagery of the crusades) could be a consideration", I say it is all poppycock, balderdash and just another example of political correctness gone wild. I clearly stated that the 16 muslim students at HC were there by choice even though the college is named after the symbol of the crucifixion of Jesus. No one has identified who felt unsafe or any examples of intimidation other than the term "crusaders" should now be verboten in certain conversations. Again, it is an example of the modern and non tolerant thought police. It is an example of intellectual elitism at many universities like Berkeley.
As for caring about muslims, I doubt it crosses their minds that almost all the strife and hostility in the muslim world today. ...not 1500 years ago, is perpetrated by muslim against muslim. That they are fleeing to the safety of the "west" is ironic.
Dear Class of 72,
I am not sure where to start to explain your fatal conceptual and analytical flaws. I will go with data mining, the fallacy of claiming something to be fact first and then picking only the data that fits the alleged fact. So in your original post you claim/assume/hypothesize "they are referring to the handful of muslim students that attend Holy Cross and who make up less than 0.015 % of the student population in 2017. A HC alum even reached out to Somaliland to enroll a few students. I doubt it refers to Jewish students since the handful (as in one hand) that identified as Jewish are even fewer than Muslim students". Then you lament "So, one has to ask "who are these students that do not feel safe"??" and posit it cant be those black people by stating "Doubt it was them."
Then you aver "my suspect would be a white Christian “Islamic apologist”". Then you pontificate about the discrimination faced by Christians in Muslims lands and present the case of Saudi Arabia as the only data point and the entire enchilada that is the Muslim world. Finally your magnum opus, you unfurl a series of indiscriminate quotes, as if one was to follow your logic you are insinuating the Quran's is calling for the death of all Christians. Otherwise what is your point? Your point is pent up animosity towards Islam based on myopia and narrow-mindedness.
Unlike the term Jewish, Islam is not an identity, it is strictly a religion and Muslims identify themselves along nationality lines such as Gambian, Guineans, Turks, Tajiks, etc ... In my case i don't even identify myself along nationality and religious lines ... I am something of what Grucho Marx stated "I cannot belong to any club that would have someone like me as its member".
Class of 72
Active member
Otherwise what is your point?
If you read and digested what you quoted you would have gotten my point:
"Again, it is an example of the modern and non tolerant thought police. It is an example of intellectual elitism at many universities like Berkeley."
Other points you could have gathered were that since the dawn of man we have waged violent war against each other.
Zoroazster, over a 1000 years before Jesus also was seen as a "Manifestation of God". He was one of a line of prophets who have progressively revealed the Word of God to a gradually maturing humanity. Zoroaster thus shares an exalted station with Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Jesus, Muhammad, the Báb, and the founder of the Bahá'í Faith. I respect all faiths and especially those that preach non-violence towards their fellow human beings.
You state that my "point is pent up animosity towards Islam based on myopia and narrow-mindedness".
I'll discuss that with my shrink next time I see him. But perhaps I simply pointed out that some muslims still have pent-up resentment for "westerners" and those not of their faith and have formed "armies" to try and establish an Islamic State free of infidels. I simply pointed out that they cherry pick verses of the Quran to justify their actions.
That is not my personal opinion it is fact if you have been following the battles in Syria, Iraq and Libya.
I brought up the hypocritical Saudis because it was from that dictatorial kingdom that much of the Middle East suffering emanated. It was Wahadi fundamentalist nut jobs that funded and carried out 911 which precipated much of the Middle East turmoil today.
These simple truths seem to bother many muslims today and they retreat into the defense of Islam rather than end the fighting amongst themselves so that the west can leave them to their destiny.
You suggest that at the College of the Holy Cross the school's newspaper editors, non of which are muslim, are somehow trying to remove the symbol out of consideration because Crusaders " even now could evoke real animosity,
and to foster a sense of religious tolerance in Holy Cross and the treatment of Muslims (evoked by the imagery of the crusades) could be a consideration?". Again I say perhaps you are right. But for the final time Uzi (ironic that the Uzi is used to kill as many targets as possible LOL) I think it is political correctness run amok.
Need I remind you that we denizens of this St. John's fan site have been fighting a similar battle against the "thought police" ever since they abolished our "REDMEN" nickname because it could be offending the local Shinnecock tribe selling cigarettes to minors on Long Island.
BTW, when you state "Unlike the term Jewish, Islam is not an identity, it is strictly a religion and Muslims identify themselves along nationality lines of , y, and z, Jewish people also identify themselves as American or French or Canadian on their passports just like muslims. You inadvertently showed your own defensive bias by turning some sarcastic examples of violence in the various "holy books" of the Bible and Quran into a defense of Islam. Islam shouldn't need defending as a religion. Neither should Christianity or Buddhism or Hindu. It is and always has been the "practitioners" of those faiths that either bring out the good or the bad images of their faith.
Peace be with you.