HC Rankings

Are they ranking coaches in the present day or based off their entire body of work. I think present day in no order Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, and Bill Self are probably the top 3 coaches in college basketball. Obviously Coach K career wise is #1 but I think he has under achieved a lot lately relative to the talent he’s had, especially since he has switched to one and done recruiting.
 
[quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.
 
[quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Monte" post=399758][quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.[/quote]

I would say one indicator of Wright being much cleaner than the others is that he has endured a few rough rebuilding seasons. His guys aren't one and day, and he seems to get the right kind of kids by and large to build a program. I've never heard a whisper that he is dirty in any way. I get your point, but has Wright even had a kid who demitted at the last minute and went to Nova, or transferred there under murky circumstances? I don't think he has, but you may know better.
 
[quote="otis" post=399700][quote="fordham96" post=399665]
When have Self and WIlliams ever gone thru ANY mediocre stretch that Jay has gone thru.......[/quote]

Is that the same Roy Williams who devised the losing strategy that allowed Ryan Arcidiacono to dribble the length of the floor with 4.3 seconds remaining and pass to defeat UNC in the championship game?

If Old Boy Roy was as sharp as you would have us believe then he would have not allowed Arcidiacono to dribble the length of the court relatively unimpeded and caused Arcidiacono to pass the ball before half court.

[/quote]

I guess you missed that Arch was guarded closely from the inbounds, but shook his man at midcourt with a nice cross over dribble before shoveling back to Jenkins. Credit Wright for this play which they practiced every single day and pulled it out at the biggest moment in Nova history. Credit Arch for incredible calmness counting off the seconds in his head and knowing he had time for a cross over and to get to the key and pass. Credit Jenkins for cooly dropping in a three as the buzzer expired. No one in basketball in that moment is expecting Arch not to shoot, or to pass behind him, then set a screen. It was a brilliantly simple play, perfectly executed, and WIlliams
is not at fault IMO.

For those watching and not counting, Arch passed it to Jenkins at 1.3 seconds; Jenkins squared and released at 0.7-0.6 seconds. Ball dropped through as the buzzer sounded.

Thanks for posting the video Otis. Nova is my distant 2nd team that I root for. I was in Olympia Washington in a hotel room on business, and texting a Nova administrator (who was at a filled Pavillion with fans watching on the monitors) the whole 2nd half. I jumped off the bed and started screaming when the ball went through, then realized where I was. Could only imagine what that would be like if SJU won a championship that way.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Beast of the East" post=399762][quote="Monte" post=399758][quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.[/quote]

I would say one indicator of Wright being much cleaner than the others is that he has endured a few rough rebuilding seasons. His guys aren't one and day, and he seems to get the right kind of kids by and large to build a program. I've never heard a whisper that he is dirty in any way. I get your point, but has Wright even had a kid who demitted at the last minute and went to Nova, or transferred there under murky circumstances? I don't think he has, but you may know better.[/quote]

By all accounts, Jay runs as clean a powerhouse program as their is. But if Duke is playing the game, and they are, IMO so is every other top school to one degree or another. Just my opinion.
 
[quote="Monte" post=399766][quote="Beast of the East" post=399762][quote="Monte" post=399758][quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.[/quote]

I would say one indicator of Wright being much cleaner than the others is that he has endured a few rough rebuilding seasons. His guys aren't one and day, and he seems to get the right kind of kids by and large to build a program. I've never heard a whisper that he is dirty in any way. I get your point, but has Wright even had a kid who demitted at the last minute and went to Nova, or transferred there under murky circumstances? I don't think he has, but you may know better.[/quote]

By all accounts, Jay runs as clean a powerhouse program as their is. But if Duke is playing the game, and they are, IMO so is every other top school to one degree or another. Just my opinion.[/quote]

I understand.
 
[quote="Monte" post=399758][quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.[/quote]
Hey Monte, aren't you glad you told Logen to post more? ;) :)
 
[quote="bamafan" post=399779][quote="Monte" post=399758][quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.[/quote]
Hey Monte, aren't you glad you told Logen to post more? ;) :)[/quote]

Unlike some who post, I think Monte is quite capable of dealing with differing viewpoints or even me misinterpreting his post, which I think I did.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=399779][quote="Monte" post=399758][quote="Logen" post=399752][quote="Monte" post=399710][quote="Logen" post=399701][quote="Monte" post=399699][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

Agreed. K the greatest active coach over a career, Jay the very best at the moment.[/quote]

Greatest college coach, hands down, was Bobby Knight. An obviously serious a$$hole side to him but he competed with all the greats without cheating and the same can be said for Wright. All the others, K, Wooden, etc. talked the talk but at the end of the day, they were cheaters. For my money, that takes them out of the conversation. Great records but asterisks besides all of them for me.[/quote]

Don't disagree, the problem is how do you(not you, per se) qualify "cheating"? And then even within "cheating", there are degrees. No doubt that John Wooden would not have been John Wooden without Sam Gilbert, but I'm sure coach K and all the others have their own Sam Gilbert(s), to one extent or another. Would have to consider Jay one of the most, if not the most, ethical of all the big name coaches. But I wouldn't go so far as to give any of the high D1 coaches a complete pass on "cheating".[/quote]

So the depth and quality of one’s cheating becomes a criteria when judging “greatness”? The coaches you mention as the “greats” (outside of Wright) have all fairly openly paid players and been exposed, not to mention, manipulating grades and eligibility. “Everybody does it” doesn’t work for me because everybody didn’t or doesn’t do it.[/quote]

I didn't say it was "ok, because everyone does it", I just said that IMO "everyone does it", in one form or another. And I mean "everyone". IMO no one is squeaky clean.[/quote]
Hey Monte, aren't you glad you told Logen to post more? ;) :)[/quote]

Just for your post I had to inthink logen
 
You guys do know that Nova, under Wright, was placed on 2 years probation for recruiting violations, don't you?

[URL]https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section[/URL]=ncb&id=1836464

Again, I think he's one of the most ethical coaches around, but let's not paint him out to be Mother Teresa.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

To me the original Original Rays was on 6th Ave and 11th st. I worked at the A + P on the same block all through high school and ate there all the time. I have yet to taste any pizza that even comes close
 
Last edited:
[quote="Monte" post=399802][quote="Paul Massell" post=399696]Kansas is like Ray's Pizza. They claim to be the birthplace of basketball (along with Canada, Massachusetts, NY, Mexico and the YMCA. Vanderbilt who claims to have invented it for College). Regardless of who is the original (I'm going with Mexico), Kansas has great pizza. Actually they have terrible pizza but definitely a cornerstone of college basketball moreso than any of the great modern programs. Best coach in college basketball right now, to me is Jay Wright.[/quote]

To me the original Original Rays was on 6th Ave and 11th st. I worked at the A + P on the same block all through high school and ate there all the time. I have yet to taste any pizza that even comes close[/quote]

Loved that spot. So did many celebrities. There was also the time the student flew over from the other side of the pond and brought several pies to go and took them back for his classmates (made the TV and print news and they had pictures of the event on the wall). Fond memories
 
CMA has won everywhere because he knows what it takes to make his pressure defense work, and the type of players that will be a perfect fit for that style. I am confident that he does not need 4 and 5 star talent to make his system succeed. His teams will always be an overachieving bunch of 3 star players. It will be enough some years to make the dance. Going deep in the dance is more problematic without the 4 and 5 star talent. From a pure coaching standpoint, he did everything expected and more. He got contributions from former bench players, and had the team looking coherent from day 1, and had them playing their best ball at the end of the season. CMA is the first coach here in some time that can both recognize and develop talent and quality young men, and coach them to maximize their chances of winning.
 
Last edited:
I agree with lawman; I live in NJ, and hate, I mean hate losing to SH. But Willard's teams has consistently gotten the better of us. sometimes to the tune of 30 pt blowouts (I have been there).

Willard (grudgingly) is a good coach. He should be higher ranked than he is.
 
Any HC that sucked up to Mike Francesa, like JW has done over the years, I do not appreciate no matter how good they are. I guess I think so little of pompous Fatso, and wish some of these Head coaches would have kept off his show, and not given him the credibility he did not deserve. MF (appropriate initials) used to brag about how "close" he was to Wright. It made me want to throw up, like when he called SJU a "joke", a "mom and pop embarrassment", even if he felt that way, don't use your bully pulpit to smear your alma mater.
 
Wright should also be higher than 8 in my opinion, his success at a non public/non-big time school speaks for itself. If he continues to excel he should rank in the top five at the least.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top