Has thisnteam regressed?

A

Absolutfan

Member
 It's nice that everyone wants to give this group a pass based on their "youth". And yes they whether they deserve it or not will certainly get one on this site. But lets focus on this year, and the season at present"... Not what will be or what could be or what should be but the here and now. Can you honestly say that this team has shown one ounce of improvement. I for one see some minimal improvement on some of the individual's part but that is so minimal one has to look quite hard to see it.

We all remember when d'angelo had a few great games and we were all ready to annoint Mo as the next coming, and an early round, if not lottery, draft pick, but where has all that gone? After a weak showing against a slumping G town team and a somewhat disaster against a weak South Florida Bulls team, can you in all honesty say that this team has progressed sufficiently at this point in the season? Excuse it all you want but at this point in time the overall body of work of the 2011 /12 St. John's basketball team is dismal at best. You have to admit that their play was better earlier in the season.

Yes they are young but after a 19 point first half against the Hoyas and 22 point first half against the feared South Florida Bulls, do you think an adjustment may be in order or are 6 top 100 high school players and a Junior College All American only supposed to score that much?
 
 Seasons are full of ups and downs. Anybody think that Uconn would win the national championship after the first half of the Big East season? We're not playing well right now for a few games, and getting sloppy. We have to reel it in a bit for sure. These runs of bad play are commonplace in the game of basketball though, and even more prevalent with a team comprised of 6 freshmen.
 
 It's nice that everyone wants to give this group a pass based on their "youth". And yes they whether they deserve it or not will certainly get one on this site. But lets focus on this year, and the season at present"... Not what will be or what could be or what should be but the here and now. Can you honestly say that this team has shown one ounce of improvement. I for one see some minimal improvement on some of the individual's part but that is so minimal one has to look quite hard to see it.

We all remember when d'angelo had a few great games and we were all ready to annoint Mo as the next coming, and an early round, if not lottery, draft pick, but where has all that gone? After a weak showing against a slumping G town team and a somewhat disaster against a weak South Florida Bulls team, can you in all honesty say that this team has progressed sufficiently at this point in the season? Excuse it all you want but at this point in time the overall body of work of the 2011 /12 St. John's basketball team is dismal at best. You have to admit that their play was better earlier in the season.

Yes they are young but after a 19 point first half against the Hoyas and 22 point first half against the feared South Florida Bulls, do you think an adjustment may be in order or are 6 top 100 high school players and a Junior College All American only supposed to score that much?
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A misnomer that has been tossed around a few times tonight, in believing USF is a weak team. They might not be world beaters, but they aren't a weak team.
 
They were awful in the first half. Whatever they are had little to do with the game our kids had.  
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It had a lot to do with it. USF was 6'10" acrosse the frontline. We got killed on the glass and that is the biggest reason we couldn't handle them. The other was that their PG was twice as good as ours. We need Branch badly.
 
 It's nice that everyone wants to give this group a pass based on their "youth".
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Why is youth qualified by quotation marks? We played 4 true-freshmen, and a first year JUCO, over 30 minutes tonight.

I would suggest that we won't see improvement from game to game, that's too narrow a sample. Every college team, experienced and not has ups and downs, and flatly just doesn't show up on occasion. A better barometer is to look at the end of the month if we're moving the ball better, committing less turnovers etc at the end of January then we were at the end of December. I'm not sure the answer will be clear. But that should be the test IMO.

But you're right that the team needs to show progression, especially offensively. But let's make that assessment halfway through the BE season.
 
Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Wayans, Waiters, Melo. And I could name others but those three come to mind quickly. Most freshman are afforded the luxury of coming in their first year and playing some, making mistakes, coming out of the game for some real time coaching, sitting and watching experienced players do it right and working and improving their games in the off-season and coming back much better players; Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Our guys don't have that luxury, on top of that they lost their coach to a medical sabbatical. At the end of the game last night they were still playing HARD and while they all need to improve this group gets nothing but respect from me. They are playing through something few teams have ever had to, six first year players, five freshman, playing all the minutes at this level of basketball without their head coach. And these are not one and doners, stopping off at college before the pros because that's what the rules say they have to do. These guys deserve our respect, not for the results, but for the continuing effort under very unusual and unique circumstances.

 
 
Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Wayans, Waiters, Melo. And I could name others but those three come to mind quickly. Most freshman are afforded the luxury of coming in their first year and playing some, making mistakes, coming out of the game for some real time coaching, sitting and watching experienced players do it right and working and improving their games in the off-season and coming back much better players; Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Our guys don't have that luxury, on top of that they lost their coach to a medical sabbatical. At the end of the game last night they were still playing HARD and while they all need to improve this group gets nothing but respect from me. They are playing through something few teams have ever had to, six first year players, five freshman, playing all the minutes at this level of basketball without their head coach. And these are not one and doners, stopping off at college before the pros because that's what the rules say they have to do. These guys deserve our respect, not for the results, but for the continuing effort under very unusual and unique circumstances.

 
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No one is questioning their efforts, although last night in the last two minutes or so of the game, many hung their heads and did seem to give up. You could see it in their faces. And yes they do deserve our respect, and yes, things should get better next year although, I dont think it will be automatic that we climb to the lofty heights that MCNPA would have you believe, but my post referred to their present body of work which one has to admit is not what we all would have envisioned earlier in the season with or without Pelle and Sampson.

And yes, while they are freshman, these kids have logged more minutes than many sophs and juniors who are currently playing on other teams and are quite successful. At this point in the season, should we not be expecting a few wins against the weaker teams and some signs of improvement? It does get tiresome treking into the Garden, at these prices and seeing a team that as of late has been anything but competitive. What we need at this point is a few wins and a close game against one of the better perceived teams in the conference.
 
Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Wayans, Waiters, Melo. And I could name others but those three come to mind quickly. Most freshman are afforded the luxury of coming in their first year and playing some, making mistakes, coming out of the game for some real time coaching, sitting and watching experienced players do it right and working and improving their games in the off-season and coming back much better players; Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Our guys don't have that luxury, on top of that they lost their coach to a medical sabbatical. At the end of the game last night they were still playing HARD and while they all need to improve this group gets nothing but respect from me. They are playing through something few teams have ever had to, six first year players, five freshman, playing all the minutes at this level of basketball without their head coach. And these are not one and doners, stopping off at college before the pros because that's what the rules say they have to do. These guys deserve our respect, not for the results, but for the continuing effort under very unusual and unique circumstances.

 
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No one is questioning their efforts, although last night in the last two minutes or so of the game, many hung their heads and did seem to give up. You could see it in their faces. And yes they do deserve our respect, and yes, things should get better next year although, I dont think it will be automatic that we climb to the lofty heights that MCNPA would have you believe, but my post referred to their present body of work which one has to admit is not what we all would have envisioned earlier in the season with or without Pelle and Sampson.

And yes, while they are freshman, these kids have logged more minutes than many sophs and juniors who are currently playing on other teams and are quite successful. At this point in the season, should we not be expecting a few wins against the weaker teams and some signs of improvement? It does get tiresome treking into the Garden, at these prices and seeing a team that as of late has been anything but competitive. What we need at this point is a few wins and a close game against one of the better perceived teams in the conference.
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Why should a half team of 6 freshmen be beating the better teams in the conference? We shouldn't on paper. I sure as hell hope the players on this team have more resolve than some of the petty and unrealistic fans. My "lofty" expectations are based on the fact that we have the best young core of players in the Big East. If we add another half team, we will be a force. There is usually a big improvement from freshman year to soph year. 6 games into the Big East schedule usually isn't enough to transform 6 freshmen into a Top 25 program. We have too many deficiencies this season for that.
 
 I totally agree with this post. We have shown little to no improvement. Actually, except for the Provdience game and a few other moments, we have been awful most of the time. Lots of teams have youth (Gtown comes to mind) and at least put together offensive runs for part of the game. We go 4,5,6 minutes without s field goal sometimes. I personally am disappointed in the lack of consistency with Gift. I don't get how he isnt' putting in 16/10 every single game, not every 3-4 games.

That being said...we knew this year was going to though. Safe to say 4-5 wins in the big east is where we will land. You have assistant coaches trying to manage just 7 players (being generous with 7). Not having Lavin will obviously cost us a few wins this year. Just look at what happened last year with virtually the same team from the year before.

With the addition of 2-3 more players next year and the return of our head coach also next year...one can only assume as sophomores will begin to realize their potential and work towards a 10-12 win BE season and chance to play in the NCAA tourney or at least the NIT.

We all knew this year would be tough, just not this tough.,, 
 
 I totally agree with this post. We have shown little to no improvement. Actually, except for the Provdience game and a few other moments, we have been awful most of the time. Lots of teams have youth (Gtown comes to mind) and at least put together offensive runs for part of the game. We go 4,5,6 minutes without s field goal sometimes. I personally am disappointed in the lack of consistency with Gift. I don't get how he isnt' putting in 16/10 every single game, not every 3-4 games.

That being said...we knew this year was going to though. Safe to say 4-5 wins in the big east is where we will land. You have assistant coaches trying to manage just 7 players (being generous with 7). Not having Lavin will obviously cost us a few wins this year. Just look at what happened last year with virtually the same team from the year before.

With the addition of 2-3 more players next year and the return of our head coach also next year...one can only assume as sophomores will begin to realize their potential and work towards a 10-12 win BE season and chance to play in the NCAA tourney or at least the NIT.

We all knew this year would be tough, just not this tough.,, 
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Georgetown has youth but is not young. They didn't start a single freshman against us. Their starting roster was Sims, Thompson, Clark, Lubick and Starks. Only one freshman played more than 6 minutes against SJU and that was Otto Porter. Georgetown is a veteran team with some nice frosh on the roster. That's a recipe for winning.

You "don't get" how Gift isn't putting up 16/10 per game??? :huh:

Bill Wennington 12.5/6.4 as a senior
Zendon Hamilton 15.4/8 .7 as a senior 
Shawnelle Scott 16.0/9.2 as a senior
Jayson Williams 14.6/7.8 as a junior

It is obvious that some are deluded with absurd expectations. This is evident by expecting that our 6'7" junior college transfer in his first season should be averaging better numbers than Bill Wennington, Shawnelle Scott, Jayson Williams and Zendon Hamilton as seniors. 
 
 I totally agree with this post. We have shown little to no improvement. Actually, except for the Provdience game and a few other moments, we have been awful most of the time. Lots of teams have youth (Gtown comes to mind) and at least put together offensive runs for part of the game. We go 4,5,6 minutes without s field goal sometimes. I personally am disappointed in the lack of consistency with Gift. I don't get how he isnt' putting in 16/10 every single game, not every 3-4 games.

That being said...we knew this year was going to though. Safe to say 4-5 wins in the big east is where we will land. You have assistant coaches trying to manage just 7 players (being generous with 7). Not having Lavin will obviously cost us a few wins this year. Just look at what happened last year with virtually the same team from the year before.

With the addition of 2-3 more players next year and the return of our head coach also next year...one can only assume as sophomores will begin to realize their potential and work towards a 10-12 win BE season and chance to play in the NCAA tourney or at least the NIT.

We all knew this year would be tough, just not this tough.,, 
Click to expand...
 

Georgetown has youth but is not young. They didn't start a single freshman against us. Their starting roster was Sims, Thompson, Clark, Lubick and Starks. Only one freshman played more than 6 minutes against SJU and that was Otto Porter. Georgetown is a veteran team with some nice frosh on the roster. That's a recipe for winning.

You "don't get" how Gift isn't putting up 16/10 per game??? :huh:

Bill Wennington 12.5/6.4 as a senior
Zendon Hamilton 15.4/8 .7 as a senior 
Shawnelle Scott 16.0/9.2 as a senior
Jayson Williams 14.6/7.8 as a junior

It is obvious that some are deluded with absurd expectations. This is evident by expecting that our 6'7" junior college transfer in his first season should be averaging better numbers than Bill Wennington, Shawnelle Scott, Jayson Williams and Zendon Hamilton as seniors. 
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Exactly, MCN. Sims is a senior, Thompson is a junior, Clark is a senior, Lubick is a sophomore (who logged plenty of minutes last season), and Starks is a sophomore (who played alot towards the end of the season due to Chris Wright being injured). Otto Porter is the only freshmen who logged plenty of minutes against us. The other freshmen were getting spot minutes. They have a balanced roster, per se'. It is certainly a recipe for winning.

Some of these posters spout off without knowing the details. I hate saying this, but to believe GG should be averaging 16 and 10 per outing has caused this poster to lose all credibility.
 
IMO, any improvement, this season, has to be minimal. Our deficiencies, including our youth, are too great a liability.

  By Big East standards, we have no size, no true point guard, no depth, our coach is missing and we possess an embarrassing looking game plan. The result has to be a great deal of one sided losses.

Each time we bring the ball down, we look like we are moving around AIMLESSLY. Our opponents move the ball around crisply and always seem to have a deadly three point shooter open to bury us. We have no answer to this either defensively or offensively.

Steve must get us premier big guys a genuine point guard and some shooters. Athleticism,alone, wont put the ball in the basket and that's the name of the game.

IMO only Harkless, to date, looks like the real thing but he can't do it alone.

I have every confidence that Steve is aggressively attacking these problems but as for now-- UGLY on Utopia Parkway. 
 
It's good to see well informed posters finally learning this year what Norm Roberts knew in 2006: you can't win in the BE with freshmen.

As for regressing, regressing from what? Being all stars in high school? They're 6 weeks into their college careers. On a team with a normal roster most of them - Phil Greene around the gills, Sir Dominick Pointless, Gazuntheit Achiewa - would only play garbage time minutes. Because our freshmen, when compared to other team's juniors, stink. They have little or no offensive skills, they can't shoot, and the athleticism that made them above average in HS doesn't carry over to college, where they're competing against bigger, stronger, more mature players. Fortunately they will not be freshmen forever and when they're not they won't stink. That this surprises anyone would surprise me if I weren't so darned jaded.

In November when they slapped down CW Post we learned that this team was one of the top 10 Division III teams in the country. When they slipped by Texas Pan Am we learned that they could be competitive in Division II. When they lose to Syracuse and dOoK by a combined 100 points we'll learn: nothing at all. If you can't enjoy the process take a nap and set your alarm clock for February 2013, which is about the team this group will comprise a basketball team.
 
 I totally agree with this post. We have shown little to no improvement. Actually, except for the Provdience game and a few other moments, we have been awful most of the time. Lots of teams have youth (Gtown comes to mind) and at least put together offensive runs for part of the game. We go 4,5,6 minutes without s field goal sometimes. I personally am disappointed in the lack of consistency with Gift. I don't get how he isnt' putting in 16/10 every single game, not every 3-4 games.

That being said...we knew this year was going to though. Safe to say 4-5 wins in the big east is where we will land. You have assistant coaches trying to manage just 7 players (being generous with 7). Not having Lavin will obviously cost us a few wins this year. Just look at what happened last year with virtually the same team from the year before.

With the addition of 2-3 more players next year and the return of our head coach also next year...one can only assume as sophomores will begin to realize their potential and work towards a 10-12 win BE season and chance to play in the NCAA tourney or at least the NIT.

We all knew this year would be tough, just not this tough.,, 
Click to expand...
 

Georgetown has youth but is not young. They didn't start a single freshman against us. Their starting roster was Sims, Thompson, Clark, Lubick and Starks. Only one freshman played more than 6 minutes against SJU and that was Otto Porter. Georgetown is a veteran team with some nice frosh on the roster. That's a recipe for winning.

You "don't get" how Gift isn't putting up 16/10 per game??? :huh:

Bill Wennington 12.5/6.4 as a senior
Zendon Hamilton 15.4/8 .7 as a senior 
Shawnelle Scott 16.0/9.2 as a senior
Jayson Williams 14.6/7.8 as a junior

It is obvious that some are deluded with absurd expectations. This is evident by expecting that our 6'7" junior college transfer in his first season should be averaging better numbers than Bill Wennington, Shawnelle Scott, Jayson Williams and Zendon Hamilton as seniors. 
Click to expand...
 

Thanks for posting the stats in the previous players. Perhaps 16/10 is a little aggressive. Maybe 14/8 would be a little more accurtate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Wennington, Hamilton, Scott and Williams play with other guys that can score, at least a little when those big men were seniors? I wouldn't expect Gift to put up huge numbers on any of those teams, but it just seems to me, he misses lots of passes under the baskets (three from Garrett come to mind), a couple of layups per game and that he seems maybe a little awkward for his position. Perhaps it's the whole first year thing and playing with all the youth around him. Who knows. Next year (or even later this year) he could really break out. Let's hope that is the case.

All I'm am doing is respondng to the title of this post which is "has this team regressed?" I can't say for sure if they have, but what I can say is that none of us have seen the improvement we would like to see with 1/3 of the BE season behind us.
 
It would be great to identify the Big east coach who faced with a seven deep team of newbies can't figure out a strategy to maximize their weakness and and minimize those of his own team We should play them all the time.

Absent such a solution in our current season, it just clicked in my head cold slowed brain that in the grand scheme of things, Gift was supposed to be Sean Eveans with good hands and range on his shot out to the foul line, and with Pelle, Sampson, Moe, Amir, and Sir Dom, Gift making space would have us quicker to the ball for rebounds. Similarly, Nuri becoming what his physical skills allow as a point, would have freed DeLo, Moe, and Phil, as shooters to become more dangerous and open up zones.

We are playing not only with half a team but with half a plan and a depleted coaching staff. I have seen it before under TGAPL (The Great and Powerful Lapchick) in 1962/3 when injuries and the Molinas point shaving scandal gutted recruiting for all the Metro area schools. The depleted STJ team was honored and supported by Coach Lapchick throughout their nine win season. I hope this team wins more than that but more important in the long run is that they stick together and learn and stand strong.

Lavin will be back, the rest of our recruits will arrive, and at some point next year, if others don't beat me to it, I will start a thread after one of STJ's many victories, with the simple header "PAYBACK'S A BITCH."
 
 First of all I want to warn some of you that cursing God is blasphemous! Some here may not realize or appreciate the Gift we got from God when GG was the last recruit to sign. Sure, he was an African kid who played just 2 seasons at a junior college and is only 6'8 in shoes. Sure he was recruited to "back up" top 10 HS center Norvel Pelle. Well, now that we know Pelle will never be our next Bill Russell we only have God to blame!

In the South Florida game Gift again was the ON!Y player that showed up and tried as best he could to battle one of the biggest front lines in the Big East. He shot 3-4 from the field. He was his usual perfect self at the line. He scored double-digits. He was basically alone and unassisted by any other redmen player within 10 feet of the basket, especially by the only other tall player, Moe Heartless, who played with such disinterest, that Jamal White would have given GG more help under the basket. That will not stop some of our "veteran" posters from picking GG apart and wondering why ill-advised passes to him became 3 turnovers or wondering why he did not outplay a 6'10 senior center, etc.

The bottom line is that GG is a vast improvement in what SJ has recruited for the 4 or 5 spot, even given his total lack of development prior to coming to SJ. Two short years ago our "junior-filled" team had a number of experienced players 6'7 or taller. I would like to invite any of you to compare those players after 3 years to Gift after 18 games. The 2009-10 stats are listed below. Your feedback is appreciated.


Basic Player Stats | Advanced Player Stats

Player GP GS MPG PPG FG% RPG APG SPG BPG
#1
D.J. Kennedy 33 31 31.5 15.1 45.0 6.1 3.1 1.2 0.7
#23
Paris Horne 33 32 28.1 9.2 41.2 3.0 1.5 0.8 0.3
#3
Malik Boothe 32 32 25.3 4.9 39.0 2.0 2.9 1.0 0.1
#5
Sean Evans 33 31 21.0 6.7 46.0 5.9 0.6 0.6 0.3
#12
Dwight Hardy 29 2 22.3 10.5 39.8 2.0 0.8 0.7 0.1
#32
Justin Brownlee 32 3 18.6 6.8 45.0 4.5 0.9 0.7 0.7
#24
Justin Burrell 28 8 19.8 6.6 45.8 4.4 0.8 0.4 0.5
#2
Anthony Mason Jr 19 15 24.8 7.3 38.2 5.4 1.8 0.9 0.7
#31
Malik Stith 32 1 11.0 1.6 29.0 0.7 1.2 0.3 0.0
#15
Dele Coker 28 9 8.9 1.7 62.9 1.7 0.1 0.3 0.9
 
It's good to see well informed posters finally learning this year what Norm Roberts knew in 2006: you can't win in the BE with freshmen.

As for regressing, regressing from what? Being all stars in high school? They're 6 weeks into their college careers. On a team with a normal roster most of them - Phil Greene around the gills, Sir Dominick Pointless, Gazuntheit Achiewa - would only play garbage time minutes. Because our freshmen, when compared to other team's juniors, stink. They have little or no offensive skills, they can't shoot, and the athleticism that made them above average in HS doesn't carry over to college, where they're competing against bigger, stronger, more mature players. Fortunately they will not be freshmen forever and when they're not they won't stink. That this surprises anyone would surprise me if I weren't so darned jaded.

In November when they slapped down CW Post we learned that this team was one of the top 10 Division III teams in the country. When they slipped by Texas Pan Am we learned that they could be competitive in Division II. When they lose to Syracuse and dOoK by a combined 100 points we'll learn: nothing at all. If you can't enjoy the process take a nap and set your alarm clock for February 2013, which is about the team this group will comprise a basketball team.
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This analysis makes perfect sense. Yet, it will have little impact on the mindset of many here. Therefore, here is what the panic stricken want to hear: The team is getting worse, the coach may never come back, Dunlap is clueless, If you remove the 4th and 5th letters from clueless, you get Cluess. It's an omen the A.D. should have noticed, so we should have hired Cluess. Sampson and Gathers aren't coming, but even if they decide to come, they're not that good. St. John's will soon be in the Patriot League, right before they drop men's basketball. Everyone should be happy now.
 
 I totally agree with this post. We have shown little to no improvement. Actually, except for the Provdience game and a few other moments, we have been awful most of the time. Lots of teams have youth (Gtown comes to mind) and at least put together offensive runs for part of the game. We go 4,5,6 minutes without s field goal sometimes. I personally am disappointed in the lack of consistency with Gift. I don't get how he isnt' putting in 16/10 every single game, not every 3-4 games.

That being said...we knew this year was going to though. Safe to say 4-5 wins in the big east is where we will land. You have assistant coaches trying to manage just 7 players (being generous with 7). Not having Lavin will obviously cost us a few wins this year. Just look at what happened last year with virtually the same team from the year before.

With the addition of 2-3 more players next year and the return of our head coach also next year...one can only assume as sophomores will begin to realize their potential and work towards a 10-12 win BE season and chance to play in the NCAA tourney or at least the NIT.

We all knew this year would be tough, just not this tough.,, 
Click to expand...
 

Georgetown has youth but is not young. They didn't start a single freshman against us. Their starting roster was Sims, Thompson, Clark, Lubick and Starks. Only one freshman played more than 6 minutes against SJU and that was Otto Porter. Georgetown is a veteran team with some nice frosh on the roster. That's a recipe for winning.

You "don't get" how Gift isn't putting up 16/10 per game??? :huh:

Bill Wennington 12.5/6.4 as a senior
Zendon Hamilton 15.4/8 .7 as a senior 
Shawnelle Scott 16.0/9.2 as a senior
Jayson Williams 14.6/7.8 as a junior

It is obvious that some are deluded with absurd expectations. This is evident by expecting that our 6'7" junior college transfer in his first season should be averaging better numbers than Bill Wennington, Shawnelle Scott, Jayson Williams and Zendon Hamilton as seniors. 
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My bad. 16/10 may be too much to ask for. Thanks for setting me straight we the stats of some of our big men. Even though 16/10 may be outrageous to ask for based on the other big men you posted, didn't those gave have other shooters and scorers around them to take a pressure off of them? I guess what I see in the early goings so far with Gift is good, just not exactly what I expected. I see a couple of dropped passes, missed layups and general awkwardness out there virtually each game (he looked very good vs. KU and Mquette if memory serves correct).

What kind of numbers would you be happy with from him? 10/6? 8/4? Since we don't have a lot of consistent scorers on the team, I was really hoping for a little more, especially when he gets in position.

Who knows, later this year or in his senior year, he could really improve his game. I know we all hope he does.
 
Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Wayans, Waiters, Melo. And I could name others but those three come to mind quickly. Most freshman are afforded the luxury of coming in their first year and playing some, making mistakes, coming out of the game for some real time coaching, sitting and watching experienced players do it right and working and improving their games in the off-season and coming back much better players; Wayans, Waiters, Melo. Our guys don't have that luxury, on top of that they lost their coach to a medical sabbatical. At the end of the game last night they were still playing HARD and while they all need to improve this group gets nothing but respect from me. They are playing through something few teams have ever had to, six first year players, five freshman, playing all the minutes at this level of basketball without their head coach. And these are not one and doners, stopping off at college before the pros because that's what the rules say they have to do. These guys deserve our respect, not for the results, but for the continuing effort under very unusual and unique circumstances.

 
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No one is questioning their efforts, although last night in the last two minutes or so of the game, many hung their heads and did seem to give up. You could see it in their faces. And yes they do deserve our respect, and yes, things should get better next year although, I dont think it will be automatic that we climb to the lofty heights that MCNPA would have you believe, but my post referred to their present body of work which one has to admit is not what we all would have envisioned earlier in the season with or without Pelle and Sampson.

And yes, while they are freshman, these kids have logged more minutes than many sophs and juniors who are currently playing on other teams and are quite successful. At this point in the season, should we not be expecting a few wins against the weaker teams and some signs of improvement? It does get tiresome treking into the Garden, at these prices and seeing a team that as of late has been anything but competitive. What we need at this point is a few wins and a close game against one of the better perceived teams in the conference.
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No, I don't have to admit their present body of work is not what I envisioned because I never thought this team would have great success or even much success. Me, I see definite signs of progress but I am curious, who are the weker teams we should be beating - USF? Maybe they are weak to you because you are only looking at the uniform name but they are a legitimate BE team, which means they are good; not great, good. And if it gets tiresome trekking, stay home, save your money and jump on the bandwagon next year or the year after.
 
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