Class of 72
Active member
I for one am finished with debating summertime hypotheticals. The season is around the corner. We will have many opportunities to give our opinions once the balls are rolled out.
Greg St. Jean
- Thread starter beast of the east
- Start date
Class of 72 wrote: I for one am finished with debating summertime hypotheticals. The season is around the corner. We will have many opportunities to give our opinions once the balls are rolled out.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than us on paper if MH can play.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than us on paper if MH can play.
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=296664]Class of 72 wrote: I for one am finished with debating summertime hypotheticals. The season is around the corner. We will have many opportunities to give our opinions once the balls are rolled out.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than his on paper if MH can play.[/quote]
Cool, NCJ. I'm hoping you're right & we get great news tomorrow on Heron...or this week.
Don't want to jinx it, but I think it comes down...and also agree, that with Mustapha, watch out in the BEC, and maybe dancing into the Sweet Sixteen....
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than his on paper if MH can play.[/quote]
Cool, NCJ. I'm hoping you're right & we get great news tomorrow on Heron...or this week.
Don't want to jinx it, but I think it comes down...and also agree, that with Mustapha, watch out in the BEC, and maybe dancing into the Sweet Sixteen....
Dan V
Well-known member
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=296664]Class of 72 wrote: I for one am finished with debating summertime hypotheticals. The season is around the corner. We will have many opportunities to give our opinions once the balls are rolled out.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than his on paper if MH can play.[/quote]
I'd say its between us and Marquette.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than his on paper if MH can play.[/quote]
I'd say its between us and Marquette.
Dan V wrote: NCJohnnie wrote: Class of 72 wrote: I for one am finished with debating summertime hypotheticals. The season is around the corner. We will have many opportunities to give our opinions once the balls are rolled out.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than his on paper if MH can play.
I'd say its between us and Marquette.
Agree Marquette and Nova will be biggest challenges. Marquette has 3 bruisers up front but we should be able to use our speed to make Howard and Chartouny very uncomfortable in the backcourt. Can't wait for November.
Amen 72. This thread could easily become the next "Endlessly Repetitive Chatter" thread if we don't cease and desist. I am hoping we see good news on MH this week and can all focus on a potential sweet 16 year. I don't want to jinx us, but there is no BE squad better than his on paper if MH can play.
I'd say its between us and Marquette.
Agree Marquette and Nova will be biggest challenges. Marquette has 3 bruisers up front but we should be able to use our speed to make Howard and Chartouny very uncomfortable in the backcourt. Can't wait for November.
JohnnyFever
Active member
I think we will be better defensively than Marquette. They will be able to match us offensively though even with MH. With him, I really don't see how we finish outside of the top 3 in conference in a down year unless coaching is very suspect. By the way, when I say "down year" I don't mean the conference will be easy...it will be incredibly tough as always. In OOC we should be disposing of the cupcakes quite easily, though I expect a few nail biter games against teams that have no business competing against us OOC as always. Then come BEC play, the biggest question will be can we close? I'd bet that most BEC games we play will have a deciding score margin within 10 pts. There's no doubt that we are better than Hall, Butler, Creighton, DePaul, etc. on paper, but we will have to make the key plays late under pressure to put them away. I'd be surprised if we have any blowouts in conference.
Hope to hear great MH news this week and you just get that slight feeling of chill in the air indicating that the season draws near. I know I have a rep for being negative, but I'm very excited for this season. The Jets and Mets are finished again and we all know the Knicks will suck again, so St. John's is my only hope! Scary I know hah. I may become a first-time season ticket holder, however I'm not really sure how it all works. If you get a season ticket package, that's for 1 ticket all season...what if you routinely go with the same few people and want to make sure you have seats together?
Hope to hear great MH news this week and you just get that slight feeling of chill in the air indicating that the season draws near. I know I have a rep for being negative, but I'm very excited for this season. The Jets and Mets are finished again and we all know the Knicks will suck again, so St. John's is my only hope! Scary I know hah. I may become a first-time season ticket holder, however I'm not really sure how it all works. If you get a season ticket package, that's for 1 ticket all season...what if you routinely go with the same few people and want to make sure you have seats together?
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Class of 72
Active member
[quote="fuchsia" post=296699]Would be interesting to analyze if the basketball threads became more combative after the political threads were closed. Folks on both sides of all arguments carrying lots of concerns about the country and no place to vent here.[/quote]
There would be a lot of embellishments just like in the current political arguments.
Most of it would be unbelievable like:
Mike Maher saying under oath "I only had one beer".
SlyFox running off a half dozen names to corroborate what he said. None of them remember.
Logen wanting one more week to investigate whether Mike Zaun is telling the truth.
Class of 72 playing neutral and everyone knows he is FOS.
There would be a lot of embellishments just like in the current political arguments.
Most of it would be unbelievable like:
Mike Maher saying under oath "I only had one beer".
SlyFox running off a half dozen names to corroborate what he said. None of them remember.
Logen wanting one more week to investigate whether Mike Zaun is telling the truth.
Class of 72 playing neutral and everyone knows he is FOS.
OK, let's envision OP's "perfect world".
Generally I don't think handing a HC job to an AC is a good idea. That is even the case if the assistant is on a successful team for 5-10 years. There are some schools that are able to do this very successfully. For example, Xavier and Butler. Those schools are rare and generally the assistant is on the team for a long time AND have experience elsewhere. Let's take a look at the gold standard in AC hiring:
Xavier: Travis Steele- since 2001 he has been an assistant at 5 different schools, including Indiana. He was with Xavier since 2008 and associate HC since 2015. Xavier has been successful for essentially every year during his time there. That is TEN YEARS on a team that has gone to the E8 as recently as two years ago and were a #1 seed this year.
Butler: LaVall Jordan- he graduated from Butler and was AC at Butler from 2003-2007. He then was AC at Iowa, Michigan and HC at Milwaukee before returning to Butler for the HC position last year.
It is further worth noting that neither was a slam dunk hire by any means. Jordan in particular wasn't a very popular hire since his one year as HC at Milwaukee was a losing one, although he did reach the conference finals and nearly made the NCAAs. Still, he had a LOT of experience and was AC on several successful D1 programs. Being a Butler graduate also certainly helped.
Now, obviously GSJ's current resume is horrendous, but playing along with OP's perfect world scenario:
2020/1, Mullin retires. Judging by the board, this seems like the most probable outcome.
GSJ 2020/1 resume: SJU makes the Tournament in back to back years... maybe even winning a few games! By that point, his resume would consist of:
*Sacramento Kings (2 years): trainer
*St. John's AC (5 or 6 years): 2 or 3 NCAA Tournament appearances at best (with hopefully a few wins)
.......and that's it.
Would his resume be enough at that point to warrant a HC position? Not in my book. If SJU does something dramatic like win the Title then yes. Otherwise, his resume would still be extremely lacking. I'd wager that the majority of major conference NCAA teams would not make that hire.
Now hopefully people understand my post and don't jump to "we're not Xavier/Butler". I am simply showing programs that DO promote ACs to HC and the correct way to go about doing that. Most major schools tend to hire HCs at lower level schools with long resumes, so there aren't exactly a lot of Xaviers/Butlers to compare to.
As for our current reality, the OP does not make a compelling case in his brief post. For example "When asked, Greg says that since he didn't attend a D1 school he has no rooting interest elsewhere and SJU has become his home." implies that he may be loyal long term to SJU. That to me is a poor assessment. I would think actually attending SJU would make him loyal to SJU long term, as it was for Butler when they hired LaVall or us when we hired Mullin.
To be frank, GSJ's first attempt at doing something major in regards to our program (scheduling this year's OOC schedule) was a complete embarrassment. If I were to make a topic like this, it would be much closer to "Should we fire GSJ and hire Rice??". Which I don't think would be fair, but I am certainly no where close to day dreaming about him becoming HC like OP is.
Generally I don't think handing a HC job to an AC is a good idea. That is even the case if the assistant is on a successful team for 5-10 years. There are some schools that are able to do this very successfully. For example, Xavier and Butler. Those schools are rare and generally the assistant is on the team for a long time AND have experience elsewhere. Let's take a look at the gold standard in AC hiring:
Xavier: Travis Steele- since 2001 he has been an assistant at 5 different schools, including Indiana. He was with Xavier since 2008 and associate HC since 2015. Xavier has been successful for essentially every year during his time there. That is TEN YEARS on a team that has gone to the E8 as recently as two years ago and were a #1 seed this year.
Butler: LaVall Jordan- he graduated from Butler and was AC at Butler from 2003-2007. He then was AC at Iowa, Michigan and HC at Milwaukee before returning to Butler for the HC position last year.
It is further worth noting that neither was a slam dunk hire by any means. Jordan in particular wasn't a very popular hire since his one year as HC at Milwaukee was a losing one, although he did reach the conference finals and nearly made the NCAAs. Still, he had a LOT of experience and was AC on several successful D1 programs. Being a Butler graduate also certainly helped.
Now, obviously GSJ's current resume is horrendous, but playing along with OP's perfect world scenario:
2020/1, Mullin retires. Judging by the board, this seems like the most probable outcome.
GSJ 2020/1 resume: SJU makes the Tournament in back to back years... maybe even winning a few games! By that point, his resume would consist of:
*Sacramento Kings (2 years): trainer
*St. John's AC (5 or 6 years): 2 or 3 NCAA Tournament appearances at best (with hopefully a few wins)
.......and that's it.
Would his resume be enough at that point to warrant a HC position? Not in my book. If SJU does something dramatic like win the Title then yes. Otherwise, his resume would still be extremely lacking. I'd wager that the majority of major conference NCAA teams would not make that hire.
Now hopefully people understand my post and don't jump to "we're not Xavier/Butler". I am simply showing programs that DO promote ACs to HC and the correct way to go about doing that. Most major schools tend to hire HCs at lower level schools with long resumes, so there aren't exactly a lot of Xaviers/Butlers to compare to.
As for our current reality, the OP does not make a compelling case in his brief post. For example "When asked, Greg says that since he didn't attend a D1 school he has no rooting interest elsewhere and SJU has become his home." implies that he may be loyal long term to SJU. That to me is a poor assessment. I would think actually attending SJU would make him loyal to SJU long term, as it was for Butler when they hired LaVall or us when we hired Mullin.
To be frank, GSJ's first attempt at doing something major in regards to our program (scheduling this year's OOC schedule) was a complete embarrassment. If I were to make a topic like this, it would be much closer to "Should we fire GSJ and hire Rice??". Which I don't think would be fair, but I am certainly no where close to day dreaming about him becoming HC like OP is.
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rawdognyc
Well-known member
May 1, 2018
QUEENS, N.Y. - St. John's men's basketball assistant coach Greg St. Jean has been named to the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) 30-under-30 list for 2017-18, which recognizes a group of up-and-coming young coaches in college basketball. St. Jean is among 15 Division I coaches and one of just two from the BIG EAST Conference to receive this distinguished honor.
St. Jean, who recently completed his third season at St. John's, primarily manages the Red Storm's player development program, scouting and game planning responsibilities, as well as the team's video operations and statistical analysis. During his tenure in Queens, three Johnnies have been named to the All-BIG EAST Freshman Team, including Shamorie Ponds who this past season elevated his game to All-BIG EAST First Team status and led the conference in scoring. St. Jean has also been instrumental in the development of transfers at St. John's. Most recently, he helped Marvin Clark II and Justin Simon enjoy career seasons in 2017-18 after training under his tutelage during their year in residency per NCAA transfer requirements.
Prior to St. John's, St. Jean worked two years with the Sacramento Kings, serving as the assistant player development coach during the 2014-15 season. The youngest member of an NBA coaching staff at the time, St. Jean, then-24, helped manage the on-court training of Kings players by implementing video and skill development sessions. St. Jean also generated extensive personnel reports and statistical analysis that were instrumental in the scouting process.
The San Francisco Bay Area native joined the Kings organization prior to the 2013-14 campaign as a member of the video operations department. St. Jean was responsible for film break down of the team's individual workouts, practices, games, and upcoming opponents. In addition, he served as a member of the Kings Summer League coaching staff in 2014.
A three-year team captain at Wesleyan University, St. Jean previously worked with the Brooklyn Nets assisting with the NBA Draft combine, free agent minicamp, summer league practices, and player development workouts. He was also a member of the Nets coaching staff for the NBA Summer League in Orlando.
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I think you minimize the talent that GSJ possesses. I'm glad head coaches who know more about the game and what they see in assistant coaches do acknowledge it.
QUEENS, N.Y. - St. John's men's basketball assistant coach Greg St. Jean has been named to the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) 30-under-30 list for 2017-18, which recognizes a group of up-and-coming young coaches in college basketball. St. Jean is among 15 Division I coaches and one of just two from the BIG EAST Conference to receive this distinguished honor.
St. Jean, who recently completed his third season at St. John's, primarily manages the Red Storm's player development program, scouting and game planning responsibilities, as well as the team's video operations and statistical analysis. During his tenure in Queens, three Johnnies have been named to the All-BIG EAST Freshman Team, including Shamorie Ponds who this past season elevated his game to All-BIG EAST First Team status and led the conference in scoring. St. Jean has also been instrumental in the development of transfers at St. John's. Most recently, he helped Marvin Clark II and Justin Simon enjoy career seasons in 2017-18 after training under his tutelage during their year in residency per NCAA transfer requirements.
Prior to St. John's, St. Jean worked two years with the Sacramento Kings, serving as the assistant player development coach during the 2014-15 season. The youngest member of an NBA coaching staff at the time, St. Jean, then-24, helped manage the on-court training of Kings players by implementing video and skill development sessions. St. Jean also generated extensive personnel reports and statistical analysis that were instrumental in the scouting process.
The San Francisco Bay Area native joined the Kings organization prior to the 2013-14 campaign as a member of the video operations department. St. Jean was responsible for film break down of the team's individual workouts, practices, games, and upcoming opponents. In addition, he served as a member of the Kings Summer League coaching staff in 2014.
A three-year team captain at Wesleyan University, St. Jean previously worked with the Brooklyn Nets assisting with the NBA Draft combine, free agent minicamp, summer league practices, and player development workouts. He was also a member of the Nets coaching staff for the NBA Summer League in Orlando.
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I think you minimize the talent that GSJ possesses. I'm glad head coaches who know more about the game and what they see in assistant coaches do acknowledge it.
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[quote="rawdognyc" post=296709]May 1, 2018
QUEENS, N.Y. - St. John's men's basketball assistant coach Greg St. Jean has been named to the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) 30-under-30 list for 2017-18, which recognizes a group of up-and-coming young coaches in college basketball. St. Jean is among 15 Division I coaches and one of just two from the BIG EAST Conference to receive this distinguished honor.
St. Jean, who recently completed his third season at St. John's, primarily manages the Red Storm's player development program, scouting and game planning responsibilities, as well as the team's video operations and statistical analysis. During his tenure in Queens, three Johnnies have been named to the All-BIG EAST Freshman Team, including Shamorie Ponds who this past season elevated his game to All-BIG EAST First Team status and led the conference in scoring. St. Jean has also been instrumental in the development of transfers at St. John's. Most recently, he helped Marvin Clark II and Justin Simon enjoy career seasons in 2017-18 after training under his tutelage during their year in residency per NCAA transfer requirements.
Prior to St. John's, St. Jean worked two years with the Sacramento Kings, serving as the assistant player development coach during the 2014-15 season. The youngest member of an NBA coaching staff at the time, St. Jean, then-24, helped manage the on-court training of Kings players by implementing video and skill development sessions. St. Jean also generated extensive personnel reports and statistical analysis that were instrumental in the scouting process.
The San Francisco Bay Area native joined the Kings organization prior to the 2013-14 campaign as a member of the video operations department. St. Jean was responsible for film break down of the team's individual workouts, practices, games, and upcoming opponents. In addition, he served as a member of the Kings Summer League coaching staff in 2014.
A three-year team captain at Wesleyan University, St. Jean previously worked with the Brooklyn Nets assisting with the NBA Draft combine, free agent minicamp, summer league practices, and player development workouts. He was also a member of the Nets coaching staff for the NBA Summer League in Orlando.
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I think you minimize the talent that GSJ possesses. I'm glad head coaches who know more about the game and what they see in assistant coaches do acknowledge it.[/quote]
Yes I read that prior to posting. The phrase "under 30" sums up what I am getting at. He may have talent, but we have not seen results yet and his resume will still be incredibly thin for a HC in a few years. Him simply being young isn't the only issue, as I think Matt is a fantastic AC. Nobody can seem to explain how he messed up his most important task to date so badly (his first OOC schedule). If that can be reasonably explained, then I'd be happy to hear what happened.
I think the OP would be fine if Mullin was expected to be here for another 10 years. Based on all the rumors I've seen, it's far more likely he will be here for just 1-3 more years.
If that happens and we're choosing between GSJ and a Hurley type hire... I'd without question take Hurley.
"Talent" and a couple hypothetical successful seasons as AC (after a few lackluster years) isn't enough for a BE HC position.
QUEENS, N.Y. - St. John's men's basketball assistant coach Greg St. Jean has been named to the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) 30-under-30 list for 2017-18, which recognizes a group of up-and-coming young coaches in college basketball. St. Jean is among 15 Division I coaches and one of just two from the BIG EAST Conference to receive this distinguished honor.
St. Jean, who recently completed his third season at St. John's, primarily manages the Red Storm's player development program, scouting and game planning responsibilities, as well as the team's video operations and statistical analysis. During his tenure in Queens, three Johnnies have been named to the All-BIG EAST Freshman Team, including Shamorie Ponds who this past season elevated his game to All-BIG EAST First Team status and led the conference in scoring. St. Jean has also been instrumental in the development of transfers at St. John's. Most recently, he helped Marvin Clark II and Justin Simon enjoy career seasons in 2017-18 after training under his tutelage during their year in residency per NCAA transfer requirements.
Prior to St. John's, St. Jean worked two years with the Sacramento Kings, serving as the assistant player development coach during the 2014-15 season. The youngest member of an NBA coaching staff at the time, St. Jean, then-24, helped manage the on-court training of Kings players by implementing video and skill development sessions. St. Jean also generated extensive personnel reports and statistical analysis that were instrumental in the scouting process.
The San Francisco Bay Area native joined the Kings organization prior to the 2013-14 campaign as a member of the video operations department. St. Jean was responsible for film break down of the team's individual workouts, practices, games, and upcoming opponents. In addition, he served as a member of the Kings Summer League coaching staff in 2014.
A three-year team captain at Wesleyan University, St. Jean previously worked with the Brooklyn Nets assisting with the NBA Draft combine, free agent minicamp, summer league practices, and player development workouts. He was also a member of the Nets coaching staff for the NBA Summer League in Orlando.
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I think you minimize the talent that GSJ possesses. I'm glad head coaches who know more about the game and what they see in assistant coaches do acknowledge it.[/quote]
Yes I read that prior to posting. The phrase "under 30" sums up what I am getting at. He may have talent, but we have not seen results yet and his resume will still be incredibly thin for a HC in a few years. Him simply being young isn't the only issue, as I think Matt is a fantastic AC. Nobody can seem to explain how he messed up his most important task to date so badly (his first OOC schedule). If that can be reasonably explained, then I'd be happy to hear what happened.
I think the OP would be fine if Mullin was expected to be here for another 10 years. Based on all the rumors I've seen, it's far more likely he will be here for just 1-3 more years.
If that happens and we're choosing between GSJ and a Hurley type hire... I'd without question take Hurley.
"Talent" and a couple hypothetical successful seasons as AC (after a few lackluster years) isn't enough for a BE HC position.
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