Georgetown (MSG), Tues. Jan. 9, 6:30p, FS1/570AM

[Ray Morgan]

I have been searching the boards looking for some comforting thoughts or theories that explain how things got this bad. No comforting words, but Slyfoxx is making the most sense. While Mullin certainly has a lot to learn about running a college program (which is what one had to expect), what is happening this year isn't all about his lack of coaching acumen. Ultimately, the team with the better players, especially when those players have an experience edge, wins. Fans want quick results. The fastest way to get results is to cheat. We are not doing that. Or, to have a legal edge, like the stipend. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that we can't , or don't, use it. Or have an experienced, successful coach with excellent recruiting contacts at a school with first rate facilities and a rabid fan base. We have none of those.

Most of the top local kids want out of NY. When Cal or Coach K come knocking, we are likely to lose, unless a kid just wants to stay home. Mullin's hope was to make sure that SJU would be the first and only choice for top players that wanted to stay in or near NYC. Not Seton Hall,and not UConn That doesn't seem like an insurmountable task. His name recognition locally, and Hall of Fame, Dream Team and NBA front office credentials are a nice selling point, His learning curve and the general difficulties of once again rebuilding a much maligned program that no longer has the same advantages they once did is the challenge. I think year 3 is way too soon to judge him.

The 2 main problems with this team is that there is a complete lack of an inside presence, and the total, and completely unexpected, disappearance of Ponds' outside game. Lovett's injury exposed the additional problem of an insufficient bench. We have 2 guys in Clark and Owens that are playing out of position.You want rebounders, then recruit rebounders. Mullin and Richmond, and even the guy that hands out the towels, knows you have to box out. it's silly to think, like some posters, that this isn't drummed into the players' heads in every practice. When you have guys that are overmatched physically like Owens, or have a perimeter mindset like Clark then you are going to get crushed on the boards no matter what you teach. Giving up second shots means that you can't beat even mediocre shooting teams, and wears down our already tired,banged up and frustrated starting 5.

Mullin has and will make mistakes. That's normal for a newcomer to coaching. The on court craziness with Wilson and Lovett is par for the course in college sports these days, and was beyond his control. I root for the Mets and Jets, and can live through another losing season. I like the recruits and transfers we have for next year, and hope we can land one more. I'm preaching patience, because if the fans and press run Mullin out of town, the next stop for this program is Willoughby. If you don't get the reference, google it.

 

[Class of 72]

I have been searching the boards looking for some comforting thoughts or theories that explain how things got this bad. No comforting words, but Slyfoxx is making the most sense. While Mullin certainly has a lot to learn about running a college program (which is what one had to expect), what is happening this year isn't all about his lack of coaching acumen. Ultimately, the team with the better players, especially when those players have an experience edge, wins. Fans want quick results. The fastest way to get results is to cheat. We are not doing that. Or, to have a legal edge, like the stipend. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that we can't , or don't, use it. Or have an experienced, successful coach with excellent recruiting contacts at a school with first rate facilities and a rabid fan base. We have none of those.

Most of the top local kids want out of NY. When Cal or Coach K come knocking, we are likely to lose, unless a kid just wants to stay home. Mullin's hope was to make sure that SJU would be the first and only choice for top players that wanted to stay in or near NYC. Not Seton Hall,and not UConn That doesn't seem like an insurmountable task. His name recognition locally, and Hall of Fame, Dream Team and NBA front office credentials are a nice selling point, His learning curve and the general difficulties of once again rebuilding a much maligned program that no longer has the same advantages they once did is the challenge. I think year 3 is way too soon to judge him.

The 2 main problems with this team is that there is a complete lack of an inside presence, and the total, and completely unexpected, disappearance of Ponds' outside game. Lovett's injury exposed the additional problem of an insufficient bench. We have 2 guys in Clark and Owens that are playing out of position.You want rebounders, then recruit rebounders. Mullin and Richmond, and even the guy that hands out the towels, knows you have to box out. it's silly to think, like some posters, that this isn't drummed into the players' heads in every practice. When you have guys that are overmatched physically like Owens, or have a perimeter mindset like Clark then you are going to get crushed on the boards no matter what you teach. Giving up second shots means that you can't beat even mediocre shooting teams, and wears down our already tired,banged up and frustrated starting 5.

Mullin has and will make mistakes. That's normal for a newcomer to coaching. The on court craziness with Wilson and Lovett is par for the course in college sports these days, and was beyond his control. I root for the Mets and Jets, and can live through another losing season. I like the recruits and transfers we have for next year, and hope we can land one more. I'm preaching patience, because if the fans and press run Mullin out of town, the next stop for this program is Willoughby. If you don't get the reference, google it.

"if the fans and press run Mullin out of town, the next stop for this program is Willoughby. If you don't get the reference, google it."

For what we are paying Mullin and Richmond we could hire Mark Schmidt away from St. Bonaventure. You ever been to Olean?
He could add Mike Rice and keep Matt Abdelmassih and we would still save money. Just Google it! I would list more names other than Danny Hurley but it would fall on deaf ears over on Union Turnpike. Even with a new and promising A.D. I am not a fan of Bobby G. Let's see how this all plays out with the actual signing of new recruits, 5th year transfers and who we can retain because if all of those things fail I can't see Chris sticking it out. He has too much pride to have the worst record in Big East history and stay if he can't keep the players committed.

 

[salty dog]

72 wrote
For what we are paying Mullin and Richmond we could hire Mark Schmidt away from St. Bonaventure. You ever been to Olean?
He could add Mike Rice and keep Matt Abdelmassih and we would still save money. Just Google it! I would list more names other than Danny Hurley but it would fall on deaf ears over on Union Turnpike. Even with a new and promising A.D. I am not a fan of Bobby G. Let's see how this all plays out with the actual signing of new recruits, 5th year transfers and who we can retain because if all of those things fail I can't see Chris sticking it out. He has too much pride to have the worst record in Big East history and stay if he can't keep the players committed.


really scary thought to think the great Chris Mullin can challenge Norm Roberts terrible Big East record. who would have thought it. I certainly wouldnt't

 

[beast of the east]

72 wrote
For what we are paying Mullin and Richmond we could hire Mark Schmidt away from St. Bonaventure. You ever been to Olean?
He could add Mike Rice and keep Matt Abdelmassih and we would still save money. Just Google it! I would list more names other than Danny Hurley but it would fall on deaf ears over on Union Turnpike. Even with a new and promising A.D. I am not a fan of Bobby G. Let's see how this all plays out with the actual signing of new recruits, 5th year transfers and who we can retain because if all of those things fail I can't see Chris sticking it out. He has too much pride to have the worst record in Big East history and stay if he can't keep the players committed.


really scary thought to think the great Chris Mullin can challenge Norm Roberts terrible Big East record. who would have thought it. I certainly wouldnt't

Stop all this nonsense. We went from Zero to 6 competent Big East players in less than 2 years from the hire of Mullin, 9 if you count the departed Mussini, Ellison, Williams, and the other center. Lavin not only balanced the roster poorly but we were left us only with 2 head cases in Obepka and Jordan, who were better off gone. At least Matt A. is out there busting it, and save for an injury we are basically where we were in Lavin's final year, with an upside for next season. I'm not big on defending a $2 million pricetag for a guy who never coached a college game, but I do think if we get through this nightmarish start, the program has upside.

 

[fun]

IThe 2 main problems with this team is that there is a complete lack of an inside presence, and the total, and completely unexpected, disappearance of Ponds' outside game.

The one main problem with this team is that (leaving Lovett aside) there's one player who'd start on any other team in the BE - Ponds - and one player who might- Simon - and a bunch of players who'd come off the bench - Clarke, Owens, Ahmed - and a couple who'd see garbage minutes - Yakwe and Trimble - and Alibegowitz, who'd never have been a scholarship player if Lavin hadn't had to justify his recruiting trip to the french riviera. You can blame that deficiency on Mullin, but there's not a coach in the league who could coach this roster as currently constituted to more than the bottom of the middle of the pack.

 

[Ray Morgan]

IThe 2 main problems with this team is that there is a complete lack of an inside presence, and the total, and completely unexpected, disappearance of Ponds' outside game.

The one main problem with this team is that (leaving Lovett aside) there's one player who'd start on any other team in the BE - Ponds - and one player who might- Simon - and a bunch of players who'd come off the bench - Clarke, Owens, Ahmed - and a couple who'd see garbage minutes - Yakwe and Trimble - and Alibegowitz, who'd never have been a scholarship player if Lavin hadn't had to justify his recruiting trip to the french riviera. You can blame that deficiency on Mullin, but there's not a coach in the league who could coach this roster as currently constituted to more than the bottom of the middle of the pack.

I don't know of too many Big East programs that would start a shooting guard that shoots 15% from 3. Unless that guard is a lockdown defender. Or keep him in the starting lineup if that was his production for the first half of the season. So maybe none of them would be starters at this point of the season. Still, a similar group, plus Lovett, managed to win 7 Big East games last season. So maybe Mullin should have been coach of the year last year, coaxing 7 wins out of a team with 2 players worthy of starting anywhere else. So Lovett's absence and Ponds deterioration from the field and from 3 are the main negative changes from the 7 win team. Expectations were higher than last year because Simon and Clark trump Mussini and Ellison. So there's Lovett's selling point: He's so valuable that Ponds can't function without him, and even the 4 and 5 star transfers couldn't help overcome his loss to the team.

 

[Class of 72]

72 wrote
For what we are paying Mullin and Richmond we could hire Mark Schmidt away from St. Bonaventure. You ever been to Olean?
He could add Mike Rice and keep Matt Abdelmassih and we would still save money. Just Google it! I would list more names other than Danny Hurley but it would fall on deaf ears over on Union Turnpike. Even with a new and promising A.D. I am not a fan of Bobby G. Let's see how this all plays out with the actual signing of new recruits, 5th year transfers and who we can retain because if all of those things fail I can't see Chris sticking it out. He has too much pride to have the worst record in Big East history and stay if he can't keep the players committed.


really scary thought to think the great Chris Mullin can challenge Norm Roberts terrible Big East record. who would have thought it. I certainly wouldnt't

Stop all this nonsense. We went from Zero to 6 competent Big East players in less than 2 years from the hire of Mullin, 9 if you count the departed Mussini, Ellison, Williams, and the other center. Lavin not only balanced the roster poorly but we were left us only with 2 head cases in Obepka and Jordan, who were better off gone. At least Matt A. is out there busting it, and save for an injury we are basically where we were in Lavin's final year, with an upside for next season. I'm not big on defending a $2 million pricetag for a guy who never coached a college game, but I do think if we get through this nightmarish start, the program has upside.

Oh please stop....all of you with Steve Lavin and his recruiting, and the cupboard was left bare and we had to rebuild from ground zero, blah blah, ad nauseum!

He was in his final year of his contract and we were transitioning between Presidents and Athletics Director.  In Lavin's final year Conrado was just hired  (July 2014) and he couldn't find his way to the Carnesecca Arena bathroom yet.  The A.D. was banging a female employee and a few sports sociopaths were inundating both with calls to fire Lavin. Over the course of 8 short months the conspirators were able to convince our novice president to hire our novice coach, said plans having been hatched on a rare winter visit to New York by Chris Mullin for a St. John's function.  As soon as the season ended in March 2015 the strategy was to low ball Steve Lavin with a pay cut knowing he would decline (imagine if he said ok.?!!! There was no back up plan!). On March 28th Steve Lavin was gone. On March 30th Chris Mullin was hired.  Some would think there was long 2 day search process.  It was a fait accompli.  No search committee needed. No Hurley interview no nothing.

Now, as far as leaving the cupboard empty and not recruiting:
In his final three years Lavin went to the post season every year capped by his best season in his final year when he returned to the NCAA with all his own players. As opposed to the last place finishes we have become accustomed to in these 3 seasons, Lavin's team finished 11th in the 16 team BIG Big East with 6 Big East teams finishing nationally ranked and 10 teams receiving votes during the 2012-13 season.  The St. John's fan base, used to sweet 16's, was not happy. 
Enter the  new smaller Big East during the 2013-14 season and St. John's and Lavin finished 3rd in the conference. In his final season in 2014-15 St. John's finished 5th and went to the NCAA. 
Recruiting?  Let's take a look at Lavin's targets:
Check Diallo, 5 star player, 4th ranked player in the country.
Isaiah Briscoe, 5 star player, 16th ranked player in the country.
Brandon Sampson, 4 star player and ranked 81.
Kassoum Yakwe, 4 star player and ranked 87.
Federico Mussini, 4 star player and ranked 107.
Marcus LoVett, 4 star player and ranked 114.
Samir Doughty, 3 star player and ranked 156.

Scheduled to return were Chris Obekpa, Christian Jones, Felix Balamou and Amar Alibegovic.  Still registered and attending classes was a guy named Rysheed Jordan.  In early April Mullin and Slice met with him and we're told he would return. Within days he was gone.  He is now in jail. Faith? I don't know but a lot of our life experiences may have been different had not Lavin been let go.

So, that empty cupboard could have been a team comprised of:
Felix Balamou
Federico Mussini
Kassoum Yakwe
Marcus LoVett
Brandon Sampson
Samir Doughty
along with Chris Obekpa, Christian Jones, Felix Balamou and Amar Alibegovic and possibly Rysheed Jordan. A couple of transfers were a possibility also along with a couple of very good preferred walk ons that don't exist now.
Seven of those 11 players ended up playing for Chris Mullin.
Now, since we are playing fantasy St. John's basketball, if all the stars had lined up and just 9 of those players showed up for a Steve Lavin team in 2015 do you mavens think St. John's would have finished last in the Big East and had the worst record in Big East history?  Do you think Lavin would have repeated that astonishing feat in his 3rd year of his new contract?
Let the 72 bashing begin!

 

[Ray Morgan]

I see more merit in this blogger's version than I do in 72's version. As Shapiro said in 2010 to SJU fans: Let's see how you are feeling about Lavin in 5 years.

THE BLOG 06/01/2010 05:12 am ET Updated May 25, 2011
Dear St. John’s: Enjoy Steve Lavin. Love, UCLA
By Ari Shapiro

Steve Lavin is not a good basketball coach. No seriously, he sucks.

And since St. John’s recently hired “Coach” Lavin to lead their men’s basketball team after every other viable candidate (hey, is Lane Kiffin available?) turned them down, I feel the need to set the record straight.

There are currently two interpretations of Steve Lavin’s career: Lavin’s interpretation and the truth. Lavin’s interpretation was adopted by just about every media outlet in the country after Lavin was fired in 2003, and it appears that St. John’s has bought into the hype as well. Meanwhile, those of us who actually suffered through the Lavin era at UCLA are left clinging to the truth.

Steve Lavin’s interpretation of his career goes something like this:

In seven seasons at UCLA, Steve Lavin’s Bruins made five appearances in the Sweet 16 and advanced to the Elite Eight in 1997. The only other coach to enjoy so much success during that time was Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski. Lavin signed the top recruiting class in the country in both 1998 and 2001, he signed seven McDonald’s All-Americans (including three in one year), and seven of his former players are still playing in the NBA. In addition, Lavin’s Bruins beat the No. 1-ranked team in the country four different times, not to mention taking out top-seeded Cincinnati in the 2002 NCAA Tournament. Yet despite this success, they expect National Titles in Westwood, so Steve Lavin was ultimately fired in 2003 after a disappointing 10-19 campaign. Poor Stevey was just another victim of John Wooden’s success.

Excuse me while I go throw up.

Now, let me tell you the truth:

When Steve Lavin took over for Jim Harrick in 1996, he inherited an immensely talented team that was only 19 months removed from winning a National Title. Lavin then added the top recruiting class in the country in both 1998 and 2001, signing seven McDonald’s All-Americans overall, including three in one year.

But Lavin’s teams consistently underperformed.

Year after year, Steve Lavin took teams talented enough to cruise into the Final Four and helped them flame out in the Sweet 16. The only other coach to accomplish such a feat during that time was UCLA football coach Bob Toledo, and he was fired.

In fairness to Lavin, however, his teams weren’t always terrible. In fact, they would usually come to play about once a year, just to show the fans how good they could be if they actually felt like playing. As a result, Lavin’s Bruins beat the No. 1-ranked team in the country four different times and also took out top-seeded Cincinnati in the 2002 NCAA Tournament.

But the success of Lavin’s teams against the nation’s elite should come as no surprise. Because of Lavin’s recruiting classes, the Bruins were made up of the best basketball players in the country. They beat the best not because Steve Lavin was able to coax a super-human performance out of his inferior players, but because he was able (one day each year) to convince his superior players to play like superior players. These victories were not flukes; Lavin’s teams actually were that good.

As it should be with any self-respecting athletic program, Lavin’s inability to get his players to perform at their highest level finally did him in. In 2003, after leading UCLA to its worst record in over 50 years, Lavin’s time with the Bruins mercifully came to an end. In his press conference announcing Lavin’s departure, UCLA Athletic Director Dan Guerrero said, “Reaching the Sweet 16 every year with Final Four talent isn’t an accomplishment, it’s an embarrassment.”

Okay, I’m kidding. Dan Guerrero never said that, I did. But you get the point. Steve Lavin may be a good recruiter and he may have really shiny hair, but he is not a good coach.

And yet, despite the mountain of evidence in my corner, I can already hear many of you (mainly the Red Storm fans) complaining that what I call the “truth” is nothing more than the biased, bitter ramblings of a UCLA grad who overestimated his teams and blamed it on the coach.

So just in case you’re still skeptical, just in case you’ve bought into Lavin’s interpretation, let’s plan to talk again in five years. Come find me after Lavin has recruited the best talent in the country, still managed to flame out in the Sweet 16, and St. John’s is again looking for a new coach.

Who knows, by then maybe Bob Toledo will be available.
Follow Ari Shapiro on Twitter: www.twitter.com/shapiro_ari
Ari Shapiro
Attorney, writer, and life-long Broncos fan.

 

[Class of 72]

I see more merit in this blogger's version than I do in 72's version. As Shapiro said in 2010 to SJU fans: Let's see how you are feeling about Lavin in 5 years.

THE BLOG 06/01/2010 05:12 am ET Updated May 25, 2011
Dear St. John’s: Enjoy Steve Lavin. Love, UCLA
By Ari Shapiro

Steve Lavin is not a good basketball coach. No seriously, he sucks.

And since St. John’s recently hired “Coach” Lavin to lead their men’s basketball team after every other viable candidate (hey, is Lane Kiffin available?) turned them down, I feel the need to set the record straight.

There are currently two interpretations of Steve Lavin’s career: Lavin’s interpretation and the truth. Lavin’s interpretation was adopted by just about every media outlet in the country after Lavin was fired in 2003, and it appears that St. John’s has bought into the hype as well. Meanwhile, those of us who actually suffered through the Lavin era at UCLA are left clinging to the truth.

Steve Lavin’s interpretation of his career goes something like this:

In seven seasons at UCLA, Steve Lavin’s Bruins made five appearances in the Sweet 16 and advanced to the Elite Eight in 1997. The only other coach to enjoy so much success during that time was Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski. Lavin signed the top recruiting class in the country in both 1998 and 2001, he signed seven McDonald’s All-Americans (including three in one year), and seven of his former players are still playing in the NBA. In addition, Lavin’s Bruins beat the No. 1-ranked team in the country four different times, not to mention taking out top-seeded Cincinnati in the 2002 NCAA Tournament. Yet despite this success, they expect National Titles in Westwood, so Steve Lavin was ultimately fired in 2003 after a disappointing 10-19 campaign. Poor Stevey was just another victim of John Wooden’s success.

Excuse me while I go throw up.

Now, let me tell you the truth:

When Steve Lavin took over for Jim Harrick in 1996, he inherited an immensely talented team that was only 19 months removed from winning a National Title. Lavin then added the top recruiting class in the country in both 1998 and 2001, signing seven McDonald’s All-Americans overall, including three in one year.

But Lavin’s teams consistently underperformed.

Year after year, Steve Lavin took teams talented enough to cruise into the Final Four and helped them flame out in the Sweet 16. The only other coach to accomplish such a feat during that time was UCLA football coach Bob Toledo, and he was fired.

In fairness to Lavin, however, his teams weren’t always terrible. In fact, they would usually come to play about once a year, just to show the fans how good they could be if they actually felt like playing. As a result, Lavin’s Bruins beat the No. 1-ranked team in the country four different times and also took out top-seeded Cincinnati in the 2002 NCAA Tournament.

But the success of Lavin’s teams against the nation’s elite should come as no surprise. Because of Lavin’s recruiting classes, the Bruins were made up of the best basketball players in the country. They beat the best not because Steve Lavin was able to coax a super-human performance out of his inferior players, but because he was able (one day each year) to convince his superior players to play like superior players. These victories were not flukes; Lavin’s teams actually were that good.

As it should be with any self-respecting athletic program, Lavin’s inability to get his players to perform at their highest level finally did him in. In 2003, after leading UCLA to its worst record in over 50 years, Lavin’s time with the Bruins mercifully came to an end. In his press conference announcing Lavin’s departure, UCLA Athletic Director Dan Guerrero said, “Reaching the Sweet 16 every year with Final Four talent isn’t an accomplishment, it’s an embarrassment.”

Okay, I’m kidding. Dan Guerrero never said that, I did. But you get the point. Steve Lavin may be a good recruiter and he may have really shiny hair, but he is not a good coach.

And yet, despite the mountain of evidence in my corner, I can already hear many of you (mainly the Red Storm fans) complaining that what I call the “truth” is nothing more than the biased, bitter ramblings of a UCLA grad who overestimated his teams and blamed it on the coach.

So just in case you’re still skeptical, just in case you’ve bought into Lavin’s interpretation, let’s plan to talk again in five years. Come find me after Lavin has recruited the best talent in the country, still managed to flame out in the Sweet 16, and St. John’s is again looking for a new coach.

Who knows, by then maybe Bob Toledo will be available.
Follow Ari Shapiro on Twitter: www.twitter.com/shapiro_ari
Ari Shapiro
Attorney, writer, and life-long Broncos fan.

With all due respect Ray, other than Steve Lavin's final year at UCLA he was one of the most successful coaches in America at a very young age during the years he coached. This is an article by a UCLA fan who expected a "national title" every year in the Wooden tradition. This pompous moron proves that expectation by saying "In seven seasons at UCLA, Steve Lavin’s Bruins made five appearances in the Sweet 16 and advanced to the Elite Eight in 1997."
THAT was his record and I would like you to list 5 coaches from that period not named Coach K who went to as many consecutive sweet 16's and got fired. This self-entitled Bruin fan first described Lavin's fantastic recruiting and them assumed that those players should have won a national championship every year! Poor UCLA! They only went to the sweet 16 every year. This dick was arrogant enough to even state "Reaching the Sweet 16 every year with Final Four talent isn’t an accomplishment, it’s an embarrassment.” He conveniently forgets that there were teams just as talented and more so at that time. Sorry Ray but St. John's is no fking UCLA when it comes to basketball and recruiting for us is a challenge few have come close to realizing. When was the last time St. John's recruited the #3 ranked class in the country in the past quarter century? The absurd expectations by this UCLA fan were only eclipsed by us St. John's fans. In the end how many consecutive sweet 16's as UCLA been in since this Ahole wrote this article?
I'll leave with a remark that coach Keady made when asked about Chris Mullin and his chances for success - to paraphrase, "wait till he finds out how hard it is to recruit" to St. John's (when faced with the competition). I hope some day in my lifetime we will be as bad as under Fran Fraschilla and Steve Lavin because I don't see any 5 star recruits on the horizon as possibilities as yet as we did with those two failures.

 

[beast of the east]

Here's a sobering fact for us all:

In the post carnesecca era, sju is 194-249 in the big east conference, a .437 winning percentage in conference over a quarter of a century. Winning tradition?

Best record: Jarvis 57-36. .613
Lavin 40-30 .572
Mullin 8-28. .222

 

[bamafan]

What a colossal waste of time debating degrees of suckiness. No this coach sucked worse no that coach sucked worse. Who the F gives a S who sucked worse. Point is they all sucked to one degree or another. Season started off giving some hope but after 5 straight losses, 3 at home including 2 blowouts, and home losses to the 2 worse teams in the league outside of us the season has been blown, it is down the toilet. The good news is I am now immunized against the pain of future losses because right now we are a lost cause. Those banking on increased depth and talent next year will be disappointed again because the kids we are bringing in are no better than what most or almost all the other teams in the league will have on their rosters and we will still be at a coaching disadvantage. (Now when I say they all sucked I mean relatively speaking in coaching at high level D1).

 

[beast of the east]

No matter what anyone thinks of Lavin as a coach, he did assemble a credible team of assistants, and if you remember, left money on the table, taking less than offered, to hire a quality staff. For anyone who gave NR all the credit for recruiting the senior Lavin inherited, they actually had more talent under Norm as juniors, when they had senior Anthony Mason Jr. Still, the best NR could do was squeak to an NIT bid and a first round horror show exit. Guys then gave Dunlap all the credit instead of Lavin. While there could be truth to Dunlap's share of the success, Lavin for his part hired a top notch bench assistant. Dunlap for his part, fell apart when Lavin was on sick leave, and nearly had a total mutiny on his hands. As hopeless as we thought things were when Lavin took over, Mullin would have to go 32-2 in the Big East just to equal Lavin's mediocrity.


Yea, its all old news, and its Friday, and nothing exciting about playing Villanova when you are 0-5 our of the gates.

 

[Ray Morgan]

No matter what anyone thinks of Lavin as a coach, he did assemble a credible team of assistants, and if you remember, left money on the table, taking less than offered, to hire a quality staff. For anyone who gave NR all the credit for recruiting the senior Lavin inherited, they actually had more talent under Norm as juniors, when they had senior Anthony Mason Jr. Still, the best NR could do was squeak to an NIT bid and a first round horror show exit. Guys then gave Dunlap all the credit instead of Lavin. While there could be truth to Dunlap's share of the success, Lavin for his part hired a top notch bench assistant. Dunlap for his part, fell apart when Lavin was on sick leave, and nearly had a total mutiny on his hands. As hopeless as we thought things were when Lavin took over, Mullin would have to go 32-2 in the Big East just to equal Lavin's mediocrity.


Yea, its all old news, and its Friday, and nothing exciting about playing Villanova when you are 0-5 our of the gates.

Hard to believe we are re-litigating the Lavin thing. That may be more pathetic than being 0 and 5 with 0 for who knows coming soon. This is right out of the scene in the Ten Commandments where Edward G. Robinson is exhorting the Hebrews to go back to the Pharaoh, except with Class of 72 playing Robinson's part.

 

[Class of 72]

No matter what anyone thinks of Lavin as a coach, he did assemble a credible team of assistants, and if you remember, left money on the table, taking less than offered, to hire a quality staff. For anyone who gave NR all the credit for recruiting the senior Lavin inherited, they actually had more talent under Norm as juniors, when they had senior Anthony Mason Jr. Still, the best NR could do was squeak to an NIT bid and a first round horror show exit. Guys then gave Dunlap all the credit instead of Lavin. While there could be truth to Dunlap's share of the success, Lavin for his part hired a top notch bench assistant. Dunlap for his part, fell apart when Lavin was on sick leave, and nearly had a total mutiny on his hands. As hopeless as we thought things were when Lavin took over, Mullin would have to go 32-2 in the Big East just to equal Lavin's mediocrity.


Yea, its all old news, and its Friday, and nothing exciting about playing Villanova when you are 0-5 our of the gates.

Hard to believe we are re-litigating the Lavin thing. That may be more pathetic than being 0 and 5 with 0 for who knows coming soon. This is right out of the scene in the Ten Commandments where Edward G. Robinson is exhorting the Hebrews to go back to the Pharaoh, except with Class of 72 playing Robinson's part.

Thank you for your timely reposting of an 8 year old sour Buin blog to make your point Moses! There is only one reality right now and that is we are staring at the possibility of the worst consecutive 3 year Big East record in school history. Not even the ultra incompetent Brian Mahoney was able to accomplish that.
Finally, let me be clear that I am not debating whether Steve Lavin should still be coach but the utter insanity in the process of replacing him without even a vague 2 day attempt to reach out to a half dozen qualified candidates with a $2 million dollar price tag and seemingly Carte Blanche to do as they pleased with hiring decisions. Instead while insulting Steve Lavin with a low ball offer, we continued paying the same salaries to a staff that had Zero track records. Ergo, in the end, Chris "I am rich" Mullin and Slice had attorneys draw up one sided contracts that make Lavin's deal a bargain.
What we are really debating here is not the incompetence of Chris Mullin but the incompetence of St. John's because our jock legend did not have to be a part of this cesspool.

 

[salty dog]

On top of that all LoVette is gone for season. Big East record in toilet

 

[beast of the east]

No matter what anyone thinks of Lavin as a coach, he did assemble a credible team of assistants, and if you remember, left money on the table, taking less than offered, to hire a quality staff. For anyone who gave NR all the credit for recruiting the senior Lavin inherited, they actually had more talent under Norm as juniors, when they had senior Anthony Mason Jr. Still, the best NR could do was squeak to an NIT bid and a first round horror show exit. Guys then gave Dunlap all the credit instead of Lavin. While there could be truth to Dunlap's share of the success, Lavin for his part hired a top notch bench assistant. Dunlap for his part, fell apart when Lavin was on sick leave, and nearly had a total mutiny on his hands. As hopeless as we thought things were when Lavin took over, Mullin would have to go 32-2 in the Big East just to equal Lavin's mediocrity.


Yea, its all old news, and its Friday, and nothing exciting about playing Villanova when you are 0-5 our of the gates.

Hard to believe we are re-litigating the Lavin thing. That may be more pathetic than being 0 and 5 with 0 for who knows coming soon. This is right out of the scene in the Ten Commandments where Edward G. Robinson is exhorting the Hebrews to go back to the Pharaoh, except with Class of 72 playing Robinson's part.

Who posted the UCLA article that has probably been re-posted here about a dozen times over the years? What constitutes a failure at UCLA is more successful than our best NCAA years in our history.

 

[Class of 72]

No matter what anyone thinks of Lavin as a coach, he did assemble a credible team of assistants, and if you remember, left money on the table, taking less than offered, to hire a quality staff. For anyone who gave NR all the credit for recruiting the senior Lavin inherited, they actually had more talent under Norm as juniors, when they had senior Anthony Mason Jr. Still, the best NR could do was squeak to an NIT bid and a first round horror show exit. Guys then gave Dunlap all the credit instead of Lavin. While there could be truth to Dunlap's share of the success, Lavin for his part hired a top notch bench assistant. Dunlap for his part, fell apart when Lavin was on sick leave, and nearly had a total mutiny on his hands. As hopeless as we thought things were when Lavin took over, Mullin would have to go 32-2 in the Big East just to equal Lavin's mediocrity.


Yea, its all old news, and its Friday, and nothing exciting about playing Villanova when you are 0-5 our of the gates.

Hard to believe we are re-litigating the Lavin thing. That may be more pathetic than being 0 and 5 with 0 for who knows coming soon. This is right out of the scene in the Ten Commandments where Edward G. Robinson is exhorting the Hebrews to go back to the Pharaoh, except with Class of 72 playing Robinson's part.

Who posted the UCLA article that has probably been re-posted here about a dozen times over the years? What constitutes a failure at UCLA is more successful than our best NCAA years in our history.

Thanks for highlighting that fact Beast!  While Steve Lavin was "failing" miserably at UCLA by going to the sweet 16 or better 5 times in 5 years, Lou Carnesecca went to ONE sweet 16 and one Final 4 in his five best years and became a Hall of Fame coach and had an arena named after him! 

 Lou Carnesecca's  best  five years as St. John's cosch:
1982–83 28–5 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1983–84 18–12 NCAA First Round
1984–85      31–4 NCAA Final Four
1985–86 31–5 NCAA Second Round
1986–87 21–9 NCAA Second Round

 

[Wolfie]

No matter what anyone thinks of Lavin as a coach, he did assemble a credible team of assistants, and if you remember, left money on the table, taking less than offered, to hire a quality staff. For anyone who gave NR all the credit for recruiting the senior Lavin inherited, they actually had more talent under Norm as juniors, when they had senior Anthony Mason Jr. Still, the best NR could do was squeak to an NIT bid and a first round horror show exit. Guys then gave Dunlap all the credit instead of Lavin. While there could be truth to Dunlap's share of the success, Lavin for his part hired a top notch bench assistant. Dunlap for his part, fell apart when Lavin was on sick leave, and nearly had a total mutiny on his hands. As hopeless as we thought things were when Lavin took over, Mullin would have to go 32-2 in the Big East just to equal Lavin's mediocrity.


Yea, its all old news, and its Friday, and nothing exciting about playing Villanova when you are 0-5 our of the gates.

Hard to believe we are re-litigating the Lavin thing. That may be more pathetic than being 0 and 5 with 0 for who knows coming soon. This is right out of the scene in the Ten Commandments where Edward G. Robinson is exhorting the Hebrews to go back to the Pharaoh, except with Class of 72 playing Robinson's part.

Who posted the UCLA article that has probably been re-posted here about a dozen times over the years? What constitutes a failure at UCLA is more successful than our best NCAA years in our history.

Thanks for highlighting that fact Beast!  While Steve Lavin was "failing" miserably at UCLA by going to the sweet 16 or better 5 times in 5 years, Lou Carnesecca went to ONE sweet 16 and one Final 4 in his five best years and became a Hall of Fame coach and had an arena named after him! 

 Lou Carnesecca's  best  five years as St. John's cosch:
1982–83 28–5 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1983–84 18–12 NCAA First Round
1984–85      31–4 NCAA Final Four
1985–86 31–5 NCAA Second Round
1986–87 21–9 NCAA Second Round

Louie also took the Redmen to the NCAA Regional Finals in the team's 21-11 '78-79 Season. I believe they lost to Dean Smith's NC team when Carolina choked the clock with their hated 'Four-Corners' tactics. Close game i think.
Thing about Louie is he did it, most years, with what we'd now call '3*' players, 'x-pat transfers', and with the occasional stacked team. The '79 NCAA Regional Final was with a team of juniors / seniors i think.
I still recall the pic in the Daily News back page of Louie, putting away the balls for the year.

 

[salty dog]

Guys were killing Looie back then too, but their was no forum. Even Peter Vecsey, in the Post, killed Louie among other reporters.. In hindsight Looie has become the greatest.

 

[Knight]

Looie was a real character, but I always heard that John Kresse was the real Xs and Os guy.