Ga. Tech game

[1and1sju]

My point wasn't that Jakarr should come out, or stay. Or that some players benefit from staying. But you can develop as a player just as easily while you're riding the pine in the NBA. Don't forget college kids can't practice with their coaches (with a few exceptions) from April till October basically. And even in season they can only work with coaches 20hrs a week.

I agree with you guys that teams have more patience with high picks, and all of that. But I just think sometimes people assume a player will get better by staying in college, and I don't think that's true. You'll get bigger and better working w pro trainers you can hire, rather than basically playing basketball part time while you're in college.

I think Moe has a better chance of improving his shot by working out w Orlando coaches year-round then he would a few hrs a week for half the year here at SJU. And he's getting paid handsomely while he works on his game.

 

[lawmanfan]

I guess Robert Werdann sucked too, since he was a NBA failure too, huh?

He did, but that had nothing to do with his NBA career.

 

[Class of 72]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that.

Yep. Burrell, Shawnelle Scott, and Lamont Hamilton seem to fit the bill as traditional power forwards too.

I tried using a former SJU player as an example that actually made it in the NBA and not just former players that were tall. LOL!

Yeah, because the guys me and desco listed sucked for us, right?

Stats mean nothing. You want prototypical 4s? These guys were. Glover and Hamilton were pretty frickin valuable players in their time for us. Scott and Grant served their purpose. A 4 rebounds and does the dirty work on the glass. Just because JWill made it to the NBA means nothing. The guys listed are nothing to sneeze at.

One too many Guinness tonight?
I never said anyone sucked.....You did!
All were very good college players and represented SJU well. Of the players you mentioned like Hamilton and Werdann, they played Center in college, but only Jayson evolved in his senior year as a potential NBA power forward.

 

[Class of 72]

I guess Robert Werdann sucked too, since he was a NBA failure too, huh?

He did, but that had nothing to do with his NBA career.

Rob was a talented big who was impossible to motivate. He had no killer instinct and played soft. He never gave the coaches more in practice than necessary. You would think he was in a labor union. His first love was playing his folk guitar and listening to music in his room and not spending time in the gym to get better.
Why Guinness used him as an example of a PF is beyond me.

 

[guinness77]

Any Joe Schmoe can be a 4. For you to say we've had no true 4 since Williams is an insult to a guy like Anthony Glover because when I think of a prototypical (your word) 4, Glover is text book example of one. Just because his game "didnt develop" means jack. He played the blocks, made picks, did the dirty work, got to the free throw line...that is a true 4.

Edit: btw, you're a bit dramatic and a little condescending, no? I was being a little stupid and over the top with the Werdann comment, I figured a sharp guy like yourself would figure that out.

 

[Class of 72]

Any Joe Schmoe can be a 4. For you to say we've had no true 4 since Williams is an insult to a guy like Anthony Glover because when I think of a prototypical (your word) 4, Glover is text book example of one. Just because his game "didnt develop" means jack. He played the blocks, made picks, did the dirty work, got to the free throw line...that is a true 4.

Edit: btw, you're a bit dramatic and a little condescending, no? I was being a little stupid and over the top with the Werdann comment, I figured a sharp guy like yourself would figure that out.

In your edit you stated "btw, you're a bit dramatic and a little condescending, no? I was being a little stupid and over the top with the Werdann comment, I figured a sharp guy like yourself would figure that out." Well, my fellow Redman, that is the definition of being "condescending". (I expect a like now from TIS).

Now, since you did not use any smiley faces or LOLs, how was I supposed to know you were being "a little stupid"? For you to say "Any Joe Schmoe can be a 4" ..... Now that is a whole lot of stupid!

I do not know what profession you are in but when I look at college kids, whether from an academic point or athletic, I try to judge their potential based upon what they accomplished in college and whether that translated into a successful career.  In the case of Jay he successfully transitioned as a basketball player to the next level (every player's goal).  You are the one that became sensitive to my example, even though I inserted a big fat LOL for the sensitive types here.  
If you graduated with a degree in teaching with decent grades, I would not use you as example when discussing SJU grads that became teachers if you failed your licensing exams over and over and became a correction officer.
When I said:
"I tried using a former SJU player as an example that actually made it in the NBA and not just former players that were tall. LOL!"
You said: "Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that."

Then you sarcastically added:

"Yeah, because the guys me and desco listed sucked for us, right?
Stats mean nothing. You want prototypical 4s? These guys were. Glover and Hamilton were pretty frickin valuable players in their time for us. Scott and Grant served their purpose. A 4 rebounds and does the dirty work on the glass. Just because JWill made it to the NBA means nothing. The guys listed are nothing to sneeze at."

I added (jokingly): "One too many Guinness tonight?
I never said anyone sucked.....You did!"

I think I deserve a few likes here when I say let's put this to rest and hope to beat Fordham at MSG because if we do not we will never live down that Times Square billboard.  Of course, it would help if we had a power forward on our team.

 

[SI1996]

Some people have way too much time on their hands.

 

[guinness77]

I'm not getting into some ridiculous Internet argument with you. Anthony Glover was a 4. Point blank. Have fun yelling at the wall.