Ga. Tech game

[Class of 72]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Agree he is not built for PF play.

Glad you agree but I think Mase and TIS are thinking otherwise ........but probably just because 72 wrote him off as a SF. LOL!
They see a Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett while, if he could shoot better, I see a Malik Sealy.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Agree he is not built for PF play.

Glad you agree but I think Mase and TIS are thinking otherwise ........but probably just because 72 wrote him off as a SF. LOL!
They see a Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett while, if he could shoot better, I see a Malik Sealy.

In the nba I don't think he has a position. Right now on St. John's I think he is an undersized four. He plays much better around the rim going up strong, or catching 15 feet from the rim and either shooting or attacking. Rarely will he beat his man from the perimeter or pull up for three. IMO a small forward is someone who can shoot it a bit, rebound a bit, pass, dribble, and has the ability to play both inside and outside. To me Jakarr is not that, but that is just my opinion. Nothing more.

 

[SJUalum98]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

 

[Class of 72]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

Let's all agree he is a hybrid player right now looking for an identity as is Primo. His biggest problem is sharing the ball and decision making. Both are very teachable.

 

[SJUalum98]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

He'll struggle like every other SF that can't shoot in the league.

The only way Jakarr doesn't struggle IMO is if he stays all 4 years and develops a consistent outside shot. And none of us think that's going to happen.

While reading this thread I was trying to think of a player comparison.

On the short end, I came up with Lance Stephenson simply because he was crazy athletic but couldn't shoot. But he was always known as a tough defender whereas Jakarr is not.

On the tall end, I came up with Jeff Green (Celtics/Georgetown). But Green was always a good shooter even in college.

Jakarr is hard to figure out and it's because he is still finding himself. He's 1-3 from 3 this year. Moe shot 22% as a freshman.

If Jakarr declares this year, it'll be beyond difficult for him to make it.
If he stays next year, he will be a favorite to win BE POTY.

Him and his family have to decide if the risk is worth it.

 

[guinness77]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that.

 

[1and1sju]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

He'll struggle like every other SF that can't shoot in the league.

The only way Jakarr doesn't struggle IMO is if he stays all 4 years and develops a consistent outside shot. And none of us think that's going to happen.

While reading this thread I was trying to think of a player comparison.

On the short end, I came up with Lance Stephenson simply because he was crazy athletic but couldn't shoot. But he was always known as a tough defender whereas Jakarr is not.

On the tall end, I came up with Jeff Green (Celtics/Georgetown). But Green was always a good shooter even in college.

Jakarr is hard to figure out and it's because he is still finding himself. He's 1-3 from 3 this year. Moe shot 22% as a freshman.

If Jakarr declares this year, it'll be beyond difficult for him to make it.
If he stays next year, he will be a favorite to win BE POTY.

Him and his family have to decide if the risk is worth it.

I disagree. If Jakarr is going to make it ... he'll make it. It wont matter if he leaves after his soph year or his senior year.

Omar never was able to shoot well enough to be an nba point guard. That's why he didn't stick in the nba, not because he came out too early.

You can develop your game just as easily (if not mores so) your first year in the nba as you could by staying in college for the extra season.

 

[Marillac]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

I saw it more from his SVSM days. He is three years removed from his original high school graduation...potential is becoming less important compared to what he can actually do with every passing day. Crazy to think that Moe will have two full NBA seasons (and the one college) under his belt by the next NBA draft and he was the same class as Sampson. Davis, Beal, Rivers, Wroten JR., etc. are all guys that graduated the same year as Sampson and will have two years in the NBA and one in college under their belts.

 

[1and1sju]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that.

Yep. Burrell, Shawnelle Scott, and Lamont Hamilton seem to fit the bill as traditional power forwards too.

 

[SJUalum98]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

He'll struggle like every other SF that can't shoot in the league.

The only way Jakarr doesn't struggle IMO is if he stays all 4 years and develops a consistent outside shot. And none of us think that's going to happen.

While reading this thread I was trying to think of a player comparison.

On the short end, I came up with Lance Stephenson simply because he was crazy athletic but couldn't shoot. But he was always known as a tough defender whereas Jakarr is not.

On the tall end, I came up with Jeff Green (Celtics/Georgetown). But Green was always a good shooter even in college.

Jakarr is hard to figure out and it's because he is still finding himself. He's 1-3 from 3 this year. Moe shot 22% as a freshman.

If Jakarr declares this year, it'll be beyond difficult for him to make it.
If he stays next year, he will be a favorite to win BE POTY.

Him and his family have to decide if the risk is worth it.

I disagree. If Jakarr is going to make it ... he'll make it. It wont matter if he leaves after his soph year or his senior year.

Omar never was able to shoot well enough to be an nba point guard. That's why he didn't stick in the nba, not because he came out too early.

You can develop your game just as easily (if not mores so) your first year in the nba as you could by staying in college for the extra season.

How's that working out for Moe right now?

 

[Amaseinyourface]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

He'll struggle like every other SF that can't shoot in the league.

The only way Jakarr doesn't struggle IMO is if he stays all 4 years and develops a consistent outside shot. And none of us think that's going to happen.

While reading this thread I was trying to think of a player comparison.

On the short end, I came up with Lance Stephenson simply because he was crazy athletic but couldn't shoot. But he was always known as a tough defender whereas Jakarr is not.

On the tall end, I came up with Jeff Green (Celtics/Georgetown). But Green was always a good shooter even in college.

Jakarr is hard to figure out and it's because he is still finding himself. He's 1-3 from 3 this year. Moe shot 22% as a freshman.

If Jakarr declares this year, it'll be beyond difficult for him to make it.
If he stays next year, he will be a favorite to win BE POTY.

Him and his family have to decide if the risk is worth it.

I disagree. If Jakarr is going to make it ... he'll make it. It wont matter if he leaves after his soph year or his senior year.

Omar never was able to shoot well enough to be an nba point guard. That's why he didn't stick in the nba, not because he came out too early.

You can develop your game just as easily (if not mores so) your first year in the nba as you could by staying in college for the extra season.

I disagree Desco. Do kids get better with NBA coaching? 100% Absolutely. But a big part of succeeding up there is being able to contribute early. If it takes you 2-3 years to be ready then that may be to late. These teams are drafting kids every year and don't always have time to wait on past picks to develop. Being as ready as possible to contribute right away is a huge advantage.

 

[SJUalum98]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

I saw it more from his SVSM days. He is three years removed from his original high school graduation...potential is becoming less important compared to what he can actually do with every passing day. Crazy to think that Moe will have two full NBA seasons (and the one college) under his belt by the next NBA draft and he was the same class as Sampson. Davis, Beal, Rivers, Wroten JR., etc. are all guys that graduated the same year as Sampson and will have two years in the NBA and one in college under their belts.

Great examples you used as not one of them has lived up to their hype as pros except for Davis. And all of them besides him could've used another year in college.

You always come up with this crazy comparisons that have no bearings whatsoever.

"How will Orlando Sanchez guard Kobe Bryant in the NBA?"
"How come Jakarr isn't as good as Anthony Davis."

 

[Marillac]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

He'll struggle like every other SF that can't shoot in the league.

The only way Jakarr doesn't struggle IMO is if he stays all 4 years and develops a consistent outside shot. And none of us think that's going to happen.

While reading this thread I was trying to think of a player comparison.

On the short end, I came up with Lance Stephenson simply because he was crazy athletic but couldn't shoot. But he was always known as a tough defender whereas Jakarr is not.

On the tall end, I came up with Jeff Green (Celtics/Georgetown). But Green was always a good shooter even in college.

Jakarr is hard to figure out and it's because he is still finding himself. He's 1-3 from 3 this year. Moe shot 22% as a freshman.

If Jakarr declares this year, it'll be beyond difficult for him to make it.
If he stays next year, he will be a favorite to win BE POTY.

Him and his family have to decide if the risk is worth it.

I disagree. If Jakarr is going to make it ... he'll make it. It wont matter if he leaves after his soph year or his senior year.

Omar never was able to shoot well enough to be an nba point guard. That's why he didn't stick in the nba, not because he came out too early.

You can develop your game just as easily (if not mores so) your first year in the nba as you could by staying in college for the extra season.

I disagree Desco. Do kids get better with NBA coaching? 100% Absolutely. But a big part of succeeding up there is being able to contribute early. If it takes you 2-3 years to be ready then that may be to late. These teams are drafting kids every year and don't always have time to wait on past picks to develop. Being as ready as possible to contribute right away is a huge advantage.

Agreed. If Sampson, by some miracle, were to be drafted, he would not make any roster in the NBA and he would fade off into basketball oblivion.

His best bet is to stay all four years and be that NBA ready senior that playoff teams will spend a mid to late first round pick on for immediate help.

 

[guinness77]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that.

Yep. Burrell, Shawnelle Scott, and Lamont Hamilton seem to fit the bill as traditional power forwards too.

I omitted Hamilton, you're right about that. I thought Scott was before Williams but maybe I'm wrong. Burrell, to me, isn't your traditional 4. Too thin, not good enough on the blocks, but that's just me.

 

[Marillac]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

I saw it more from his SVSM days. He is three years removed from his original high school graduation...potential is becoming less important compared to what he can actually do with every passing day. Crazy to think that Moe will have two full NBA seasons (and the one college) under his belt by the next NBA draft and he was the same class as Sampson. Davis, Beal, Rivers, Wroten JR., etc. are all guys that graduated the same year as Sampson and will have two years in the NBA and one in college under their belts.

Great examples you used as not one of them has lived up to their hype as pros except for Davis. And all of them besides him could've used another year in college.

You always come up with this crazy comparisons that have no bearings whatsoever.

"How will Orlando Sanchez guard Kobe Bryant in the NBA?"
"How come Jakarr isn't as good as Anthony Davis."

First, your bottom quote is completely fabricated. You do know what quotations mean, right? Pretty tough to mess up a quote when you are replying to the very post the quote is in. Nicely done.
Next, please tell me how Wroten Jr., the #25 pick in the draft mind you, is not living up to his "hype." He is averaging 13.3, 3.2, and 3.3 this year and just had a triple-double like a week ago.
As for the "How will Orlando Sanchez guard Kobe Byrant in the NBA," while also a misquote--but admittedly much closer than your blatant fabrication above--it was in reference to some posters claiming Sanchez to be a future NBA SF. Since Kobe is one of the best players in the league and plays the same position poster claim Sanchez will play in the NBA, I used his name to make the point clear. I do no think Sanchez has a prayer to play in the NBA.

Finally, Moe did just fine last year. He was the #15 pick in the draft and was only 18 years old. Nobody expected him to be a world-beater right off the bat. He finished ONE VOTE shy of the all-rookie team. His minutes will be tougher to come by this year with the added talent 2-4, but he will still have two years of NBA experience on his side after this season.

 

[dee]

He is a college PF and a pro SF.

Can he shoot consistently? No. Rebound consistently? No.

But again, SJU fans are overly critical of him.

Pro scouts look potential. Jakarr has potential. He just needs more development and better decision making.

He'll have to be a sf in the pros. But do you see that at all? Look at the small forward in the league.

I saw it more from his SVSM days. He is three years removed from his original high school graduation...potential is becoming less important compared to what he can actually do with every passing day. Crazy to think that Moe will have two full NBA seasons (and the one college) under his belt by the next NBA draft and he was the same class as Sampson. Davis, Beal, Rivers, Wroten JR., etc. are all guys that graduated the same year as Sampson and will have two years in the NBA and one in college under their belts.

Great examples you used as not one of them has lived up to their hype as pros except for Davis. And all of them besides him could've used another year in college.

You always come up with this crazy comparisons that have no bearings whatsoever.

"How will Orlando Sanchez guard Kobe Bryant in the NBA?"
"How come Jakarr isn't as good as Anthony Davis."

First, your bottom quote is completely fabricated. You do know what quotations mean, right? Pretty tough to mess up a quote when you are replying to the very post the quote is in. Nicely done.
Next, please tell me how Wroten Jr., the #25 pick in the draft mind you, is not living up to his "hype." He is averaging 13.3, 3.2, and 3.3 this year and just had a triple-double like a week ago.
As for the "How will Orlando Sanchez guard Kobe Byrant in the NBA," while also a misquote--but admittedly much closer than your blatant fabrication above--it was in reference to some posters claiming Sanchez to be a future NBA SF. Since Kobe is one of the best players in the league and plays the same position poster claim Sanchez will play in the NBA, I used his name to make the point clear. I do no think Sanchez has a prayer to play in the NBA.

Finally, Moe did just fine last year. He was the #15 pick in the draft and was only 18 years old. Nobody expected him to be a world-beater right off the bat. He finished ONE VOTE shy of the all-rookie team. His minutes will be tougher to come by this year with the added talent 2-4, but he will still have two years of NBA experience on his side after this season.

All of this is way off the topic of this post but I will say that I think Harkless left at least one year too early. There is a rush to get drafted and I understand that everyone wants that pot of gold but too many of these kids leave too early in my humble opinion

 

[Class of 72]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that.

Yep. Burrell, Shawnelle Scott, and Lamont Hamilton seem to fit the bill as traditional power forwards too.

I tried using a former SJU player as an example that actually made it in the NBA and not just former players that were tall. LOL!

 

[guinness77]

Thought that stretch in the second half was the best stretch we played all year. We had a nice stretch last night and against Bucknell but what made today better is that we actually played into an identity as a unit, and this needs to be what we play to all year:

Pressing, rim protecting and attacking the basket.

I think its safe to say that this big lineup of Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez all being on the floor at the same time is not working out. Obekpa needs the heaviest minutes at the 5, Sampson needs heavy minutes at the 4 and Sanchez can be the guy to give both a breather when needed. We also need to have him at the high post offensively. He isn't in a good enough position to make plays when hes playing out by the arc. I think a large part of the reason he's struggling is because his role hasn't been defined. I also think he needs to be in better shape, which is another reason why we need to stagger his minutes. He might not keep up for all that long in a pressing style. I still believe that he's highly skilled though and we need to get him a nice amount of minutes.

Jakarr was much better in the second half but there are still some highly frustrating aspects to his game. He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard. He would be a much higher percentage finisher if he used the glass more. He does so well when there's space for him to operate through the lane but as soon as there's a crowd in there, he really struggles.

Branch definitely showed out much better today. I think he really excels from the pressing style and that got him going.

Rysheed will get there and I also think that this style will help to spark something. It's safe to say he was overhyped coming in, especially with where his mind may be at with the stuff going on back home with his mother.

D'Lo and Dom provided the energy when we had nothing going (including intensity) during the first 25 minutes of this game. D'Lo is really good at making that little drop off pass when he gets into the lane. While he isn't a PG, he has definitely shown better playmaking abilities.

We have to keep working on our ballscreen defense. When we're in man to man we are tested with ballscreens on most possessions.

I know Lav said after the game that the press was just going to be one aspect of what we do defensively, but it really needs to be our MAIN aspect off of made baskets. It's time to stop with the experimenting of the big lineups and such and go with what our identity should be, and what we saw in the second half tonight was it. Glad we were able to play well in that stretch and have a reason to feel good about ourselves going into this week.

The big lineup has not worked because Primo does not comprende his role. He is 6'9 and stronger than Sampson and should be used as the 4 but something seems to get lost in the translation. I do not mean to make you sound contradictory when describing Jakarr but you are being contradictory in wanting him to have heavy minutes at the 4 while also saying "He's very soft around the rim and constantly doesn't finish plays that he should. He needs to get tougher and stronger. He also seems to be allergic to using the backboard."
Those are not the qualities of a 4 in my book. He is a natural 3 and on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward.
This team has not come together for the most part because two new players, Sanchez and Jordan, have not been integrated into the team and if, and when they do, this will be a completely different team than we have been watching.
So see, I am optimistic to the extent we have the ingredients in the kitchen. All the cooks have to do is prepare the recipes so we look sweet instead stinking.

There is nothing about Jakarr's game that screams "natural 3" or "point forward".

Jakarr fan, but don't point forwards pass? Not his inclination or forte.

I agree about the "inclination" observation. I said "on the breaks he is agile and quick enough to play like a point forward" and he is if he was coached up to do so .........so it would become a "forte" to prepare him for the "pros".
Aside from his height, does anything about his current game scream a 4 to you guys? If so, please provide examples.
Do you think he has been shooting 3s and mostly mid-range shots to impress scouts about an opening at the 4 in Chicago? If he ever works on his free throw shooting he can be a major threat because a prototypical SF Is defined in the literature as a player who, "shares One common thread ........an ability to "get to the line" and draw fouls by aggressively attempting post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks."
Our team plays absent a power forward role as is evidenced by Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Sampson rarely venturing offensively close to the basket except in fast break opportunities.
Just being 6'9 does not a power forward make.
Jayson Williams may have been our last true PF at St. John's.

Ty Grant and Anthony Glover might disagree with that.

Yep. Burrell, Shawnelle Scott, and Lamont Hamilton seem to fit the bill as traditional power forwards too.

I tried using a former SJU player as an example that actually made it in the NBA and not just former players that were tall. LOL!

Yeah, because the guys me and desco listed sucked for us, right?

Stats mean nothing. You want prototypical 4s? These guys were. Glover and Hamilton were pretty frickin valuable players in their time for us. Scott and Grant served their purpose. A 4 rebounds and does the dirty work on the glass. Just because JWill made it to the NBA means nothing. The guys listed are nothing to sneeze at.

 

[guinness77]

I guess Robert Werdann sucked too, since he was a NBA failure too, huh?