Fools & history
- Thread starter dustyj
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beast of the east
Active member
One more boring anecdote, as I am close friends with the sister of the key party in this.
My friend is from Iowa. Half-Sioux. She is brilliant, and so is her brother. When he was a HS senior, he was offered a full ride to Notre Dame. He said to his sister, "I don't know if they want me because I'm part Sioux, or because of my academic record. If i'm unsure, maybe I should just say no." She told him, "When I was a HS senior, Harvard offered to fly me out to Cambridge on a private jet for an interview. Don't worry about what you think are their motivations. IF you like the school, go there."
So, the kid goes to ND, hits it out of the park academically, and is the salutatorian at graduation. He then gets into Yale Law, which a lot of kids prefer over Harvard Law, because Yale is pass/fail. After a whole academic career of pressing for great grades, students can relax there, or so the perception. By a freak chance, the kid ends up rooming with my neighbor across the street from me, also a brilliant kid in his own right, and they become close friends.
On graduation, the kid gets a job with a prestigious Washington Law, top rated firm - the kind that loves to hire Ivy grads in abundance. One of their clients is the Washington Redskins. So one day about 8 or 9 years ago, the firm wins a significant judgment in the legal battle for Washington to keep the name Redskins. One the the senior partners send out a global e-mail congratulating by name the lead attorney and everyone who worked on the litigation.
The kid gets the email, and replies in essence, "Not all of us are so happy with the court judgment." and lists the reasons why. The kid hits reply all. The partner who wrote the email is incensed, and sends the kid a very angry e-mail that says, "Congratulation, _______. You just crapped on our team's accomplishment. Nice job." The kid gets the email, and sends a reply, again reply all, "I could give a **** what you or anyone else thinks about this. It's nothing to celebrate and you can go *****.
The partner calls the kid to his office. The kid says, "I guess this means I'm fired." The partner says, "Yes, you're right."
Today the kid probably would be given a medal by the media.
A little sidebar to this story. When I went to Denver for the NCAA regionals back in Lavin's first year, BYU was playing in the first game. They had that kid Jimmer. In the SJU section, which was fairly empty for the first game, their was a somewhat drunk, very loud BYU fan who had moved down into our empty section for the BYU game. Our fans started telling him to sit down and shut up, and it was getting very heated. He was right behind me, so instead of engaging him that way, I just started chatting him. Turns out he was an attorney in Washington, also for a regarded law firm. So I told him the above story, and he cracked a big smile, and said, "You know, I've heard that story. It's made the rounds of Washington law firms."
So, yea, not every Native American is so dispassionate about a sports team name. Certainly Native Americans have a plethora of more significant social problems, including abject poverty, access to healthcare, and poor education.
It's a lot easier for us to be dismissive than for someone who is Native American, and still marginalized by society in general.
My friend is from Iowa. Half-Sioux. She is brilliant, and so is her brother. When he was a HS senior, he was offered a full ride to Notre Dame. He said to his sister, "I don't know if they want me because I'm part Sioux, or because of my academic record. If i'm unsure, maybe I should just say no." She told him, "When I was a HS senior, Harvard offered to fly me out to Cambridge on a private jet for an interview. Don't worry about what you think are their motivations. IF you like the school, go there."
So, the kid goes to ND, hits it out of the park academically, and is the salutatorian at graduation. He then gets into Yale Law, which a lot of kids prefer over Harvard Law, because Yale is pass/fail. After a whole academic career of pressing for great grades, students can relax there, or so the perception. By a freak chance, the kid ends up rooming with my neighbor across the street from me, also a brilliant kid in his own right, and they become close friends.
On graduation, the kid gets a job with a prestigious Washington Law, top rated firm - the kind that loves to hire Ivy grads in abundance. One of their clients is the Washington Redskins. So one day about 8 or 9 years ago, the firm wins a significant judgment in the legal battle for Washington to keep the name Redskins. One the the senior partners send out a global e-mail congratulating by name the lead attorney and everyone who worked on the litigation.
The kid gets the email, and replies in essence, "Not all of us are so happy with the court judgment." and lists the reasons why. The kid hits reply all. The partner who wrote the email is incensed, and sends the kid a very angry e-mail that says, "Congratulation, _______. You just crapped on our team's accomplishment. Nice job." The kid gets the email, and sends a reply, again reply all, "I could give a **** what you or anyone else thinks about this. It's nothing to celebrate and you can go *****.
The partner calls the kid to his office. The kid says, "I guess this means I'm fired." The partner says, "Yes, you're right."
Today the kid probably would be given a medal by the media.
A little sidebar to this story. When I went to Denver for the NCAA regionals back in Lavin's first year, BYU was playing in the first game. They had that kid Jimmer. In the SJU section, which was fairly empty for the first game, their was a somewhat drunk, very loud BYU fan who had moved down into our empty section for the BYU game. Our fans started telling him to sit down and shut up, and it was getting very heated. He was right behind me, so instead of engaging him that way, I just started chatting him. Turns out he was an attorney in Washington, also for a regarded law firm. So I told him the above story, and he cracked a big smile, and said, "You know, I've heard that story. It's made the rounds of Washington law firms."
So, yea, not every Native American is so dispassionate about a sports team name. Certainly Native Americans have a plethora of more significant social problems, including abject poverty, access to healthcare, and poor education.
It's a lot easier for us to be dismissive than for someone who is Native American, and still marginalized by society in general.
A friend of mine... was driving through New Mexico recently taking his daughter back to school. He stopped for lunch in a restaurant where he was the only "white" guy. Actually he is of native American decent himself, but he looks like a white guy as does his daughter. They were treated very badly at the restaurant for no other reason than being white. Anyway the story is irrelevant as is claiming that a Yale lawyer is marginalized in our society. Besides your story lacks the ring of truth since we all know that BYU fans do not drink, much less get intoxicated.
Beast - here's the actual story about the associate (who was at CA firm).
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/quinn-emanuel-associate-has-reservations-about-redskin-victory/
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/second-bar-failure-is-proximate-cause-for-quinn-associates-ouster/
A bit (well, actually more than a bit) different than what you laid out .
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/quinn-emanuel-associate-has-reservations-about-redskin-victory/
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/second-bar-failure-is-proximate-cause-for-quinn-associates-ouster/
A bit (well, actually more than a bit) different than what you laid out .
beast of the east
Active member
Paul, ask any SJU fan who was there in Denver. They probably remember the really loud and obnoxious guy in the section. Not every Mormon kid accepts the tenets of the religion, so that's a foolish reason to doubt the story. This kid has carried around the mantle of being Sioux his entire life, and even the stigma of affirmative action hires and college acceptances when he was well qualified without any help. He now works in administration at ND, having foregone a law career after his brief exposure to it.
Your story is not particularly meritorious because many caucasians have experienced not being treated so well in a setting where they were the only white person. I've often responded to those who complain about cries of racism by blacks that we have little idea of how it feels to be dressed fairly well, and to be followed around an all white CVS because the assistant manager is searching for shoplifters and is profiling.
While I don't necessarily agree that sports team name perpetuates racial and ethnic stigmas, that really isn't my call to make. If the offended party feels so, it's really not a huge deal to change a name. Of course, the Washington franchise is not only protecting tradition, but $$$$.
beast of the east
Active member
MRKAS, the story i've recollected is the one told by his sister. That's certainly the kid's perception, and of course every story has several sides to it. I never read an official version, but will now. Thanks.
Obviously (or not so obviously) the BYU reference was sarcasm but if the 1st Year was in fact fired, he got fired just as any other 1st year would for being a moron. Nobody wants to wade through that drivel and if he had a real point to make that was not the appropriate way to do it. I'm all for taking a stand and doing the right thing but not for wasting people's time.
after reading the actual story (thanks mkras) and the moronic politically correct nonsense leading up to it, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that I am a moron for even getting sucked into this thread. Probably the point DustyJ was trying to make by starting this obvious flame bait.
after reading the actual story (thanks mkras) and the moronic politically correct nonsense leading up to it, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that I am a moron for even getting sucked into this thread. Probably the point DustyJ was trying to make by starting this obvious flame bait.
beast of the east
Active member
No, he's a server in the New Mexico restaurant and waited on Paul.
beast of the east
Active member
Agree 100%. I never met the kid, but I know he's had some serious emotional issues that he has worked out. the published correspondence of emails was actually much milder than the summary provided by his sister to me.
All in all, I posted it as an interesting sidebar to the Washington Redskins legal debate. I wasn't aware that this became public fodder and certainly there was enough validity in the story i recounted for MRKAS to find it on the web.
By the way Paul, I believe you had a birthday this week. I was going to start of topic, but if I'm right, HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
redmen2014champs
Member
What I took from this story is it's a perfect example of how unfair affirmative action is, a kid that can't pass the bar twice gets a full ride to ND and Yale and gets a job at a top law firm. I'd love to see the SAT and LSAT scores that this moron had and compare them to the students who will have trouble getting a job out of SJU Law School. He just checked the right box.
beast of the east
Active member
Thank you MRKAS. I did a little fact checking on the kid's career and he is indeed at Notre Dame. He graduated Yale in 2007, and he is by all means the person in the article. I didn't retell the version I told to make any political point about the rightness or wrongness of the name Redskins, just that some Native Americans have a big problem with it. This kid is not a Kennedy when it came to passing the bar. He is brilliant and was in the middle of a huge emotional meltdown when this occurred and your posted emails show a lot more restraint on his part that my telling of it had indicated. The fact that he didn't pass the bar I'm pretty sure had more to do with the issues he had a the time.
Rethinking this particular story causes me to believe that its probably best for sports teams to discard imagery that certain groups of people find offensive. This imagery and representations can fuel negative stereotypes. Even Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice perpetuated a negative view of Jews with one of its main characters, Shylock, which has since taken on the meaning of loaning money at exorbitant interest rates. Since the 20th century, the play has been criticized by some for antisemitism.
Although Redskins as a name appears somewhat benign, and apparently Redmen also, I have no problem moving on from these. Red Storm doesn't bother me nearly as much as it did years earlier.