Fools & history

[dustyj]

Before I get to the point of this post I want every reader of this post to understand that I have complete knowledge of the St. Johns mascot. I know the source of our former nickname.

With that in mind I want to suggest to everyone who truly loves st. Johns that we bury this stupid Laughing Indian image. Look at the picture below. Honestly people does that represent anything we are about today? Its a tiny piece of out history which there is no reason cling to. I saw that post and I was just creeped out. It hurts us plain and simple. We are st. Johns. We are still and always will be the redmen but we are not a pasciche Redskin cartoon that has no historic connection to this program. And I this era we need to let it go and move on. Again it does more harm than good, kids today are sophisticated, imagery matters, lose it. Lost the laughing Indian it does not matter. Seriously.

 

[ErickTheRed]

Lighten up francis

 

[Northern Storm]

Considering the fact, that I have openly accepted and like the nickname Red Storm, I don't ever think of Redmen (I never liked that name. I didn't hate it. I just found it to be a very plain and boring nickname. I do hate "the Johnnies" though). Therefore, I don't associate any Native American caricature as a mascot for the team. Because of that, I don't consider it an issue.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

Before I get to the point of this post I want every reader of this post to understand that I have complete knowledge of the St. Johns mascot. I know the source of our former nickname.

With that in mind I want to suggest to everyone who truly loves st. Johns that we bury this stupid Laughing Indian image. Look at the picture below. Honestly people does that represent anything we are about today? Its a tiny piece of out history which there is no reason cling to. I saw that post and I was just creeped out. It hurts us plain and simple. We are st. Johns. We are still and always will be the redmen but we are not a pasciche Redskin cartoon that has no historic connection to this program. And I this era we need to let it go and move on. Again it does more harm than good, kids today are sophisticated, imagery matters, lose it. Lost the laughing Indian it does not matter. Seriously.

where is the picture below?

 

[dee]

Before I get to the point of this post I want every reader of this post to understand that I have complete knowledge of the St. Johns mascot. I know the source of our former nickname.

With that in mind I want to suggest to everyone who truly loves st. Johns that we bury this stupid Laughing Indian image. Look at the picture below. Honestly people does that represent anything we are about today? Its a tiny piece of out history which there is no reason cling to. I saw that post and I was just creeped out. It hurts us plain and simple. We are st. Johns. We are still and always will be the redmen but we are not a pasciche Redskin cartoon that has no historic connection to this program. And I this era we need to let it go and move on. Again it does more harm than good, kids today are sophisticated, imagery matters, lose it. Lost the laughing Indian it does not matter. Seriously.

where is the picture below?

St johns took a cigar store Indian statute and would sometimes roll it out before home games at alumni hall to the cheers of the students. It was often accompanied by a student in native Indian garb. Just want you to know that as an alum I don't dislike the red storm name, I unequivocally hate it. The colleges around the country were literally forced to change any nickname relating to native Indians due to political correctness. The federal government threatened to withhold federal funds from any college that did not c h age it's nickname. That is the bottom line---money--and why the name was changed. Long live the redmen!!!

 

[ohiofan]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

 

[dee]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

They cant, the school would lose federal funds.

 

[beast of the east]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

 

[ohiofan]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

PS - I hate the Browns (oops, misspelling... the "Clowns")

 

[firestorm]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

They cant, the school would lose federal funds.

Dustyj, I take your point to heart. Despite my avatar, I'm not comfortable with the laughing Indian mascot. I've kept it because it reflects my association with SJU but I know I should (and will) change it. Living in a part of North America with a large Aboriginal population, I would not even think about wearing any of my old gear publicly anymore.

That said, I think the Redmen name could live again – carefully managed to steer clear of any association with Indian culture. It will never happen, but you could make a case for it...

 

[beast of the east]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

I don't think your ancestry supplies you with any special expertise unless you are holding information not available to the general public. What in your genealogy qualifies you as more informed? That it doesn't bother you personally?

At this point in time, the pendulum of public opinion has swayed so much on the side of political correctness that to revert to a team name that conjured up cartoon images of a large nosed Indian Chief on the warpath would be met with harsh public outcry.

I believe Syracuse used tribal symbolism as a log for their team back when. At the time they discarded that symbol, and made their mascot an orange. IF we had done the same back then it may have passed muster as a remedial action. Those days have long since passed, even if you feel differently as a mixed heritage native american,

 

[ohiofan]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

I don't think your ancestry supplies you with any special expertise unless you are holding information not available to the general public. What in your genealogy qualifies you as more informed? That it doesn't bother you personally?

That the caricatures do bother me but the name Redmen doesn't. As a matter of fact all caricatures of different peoples bother me.

BTW, did I misspell anything?

 

[beast of the east]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

I don't think your ancestry supplies you with any special expertise unless you are holding information not available to the general public. What in your genealogy qualifies you as more informed? That it doesn't bother you personally?

That the caricatures do bother me but the name Redmen doesn't. As a matter of fact all caricatures of different peoples bother me.

BTW, did I misspell anything?

As a moderator, do you feel comfortable calling posters ignorant and baiting others? You want to revisit the issue which was regarding posters feeling compelled to criticize the spelling of Mullin for the umpteenth time?

 

[ohiofan]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

I don't think your ancestry supplies you with any special expertise unless you are holding information not available to the general public. What in your genealogy qualifies you as more informed? That it doesn't bother you personally?

That the caricatures do bother me but the name Redmen doesn't. As a matter of fact all caricatures of different peoples bother me.

BTW, did I misspell anything?

As a moderator, do you feel comfortable calling posters ignorant and baiting others? You want to revisit the issue which was regarding posters feeling compelled to criticize the spelling of Mullin for the umpteenth time?

I didn't call anyone ignorant and you are fun to mess with because you take everything so seriously. I would not call it baiting because it is not mean-spirited.

And, people misspell all the time, who cares whether it is Mullin, Mullins, Molten Mulva, or Mother Goose.

 

[beast of the east]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

I don't think your ancestry supplies you with any special expertise unless you are holding information not available to the general public. What in your genealogy qualifies you as more informed? That it doesn't bother you personally?

That the caricatures do bother me but the name Redmen doesn't. As a matter of fact all caricatures of different peoples bother me.

BTW, did I misspell anything?

As a moderator, do you feel comfortable calling posters ignorant and baiting others? You want to revisit the issue which was regarding posters feeling compelled to criticize the spelling of Mullin for the umpteenth time?

I didn't call anyone ignorant and you are fun to mess with because you take everything so seriously. I would not call it baiting because it is not mean-spirited.

And, people misspell all the time, who cares whether it is Mullin, Mullins, Molten or Mother Goose.

If it annoys the other person it is mean spirited. Such behavior - mods included - have driven some pretty decent posters off the boards. Other posters have taken long moratoriums over stupid behavior, including Moose, MJDinkins, Logen, and other. Trust me, where I grew up you either gave it right back to someone or perished. So I tend not to take it personally or professionally. If you and the other mods want to turn this board upside down, I'll have no problem calling out people for "ignorant posts", challenge the intellect of those wishing to engage, even those who want to draw Fun into an argument.

 

[Spocky Ramone]

OMG, another insane discussion.

St. John's was called the Redmen because they wore Red, not because the mascot was a Native American.

Changing the name to Red Storm was one of the most ignorant decisions ever made regarding team names.

Bring back the Redmen name without the mascot..

Ridiculous assertion on your part. Assign your argument to the Cleveland Browns, and make their mascot a distorted caricature of African Americans. Then remove the mascot and try to use the name Browns again.

As a fan, I was not in favor of changing the name of the team. If you don't have a sense of history, watch a movie such as "Flags of Our Fathers" and see what a Native American had to endure even when coming home as a war hero.

Let me be very clear. Among other ancestries (is that spelled correctly), I am part Native American.

I think I may be a bit more qualified than you are to comment on the Redmen without using the mascot. So my assertion is not ridiculous.......

I don't think your ancestry supplies you with any special expertise unless you are holding information not available to the general public. What in your genealogy qualifies you as more informed? That it doesn't bother you personally?

That the caricatures do bother me but the name Redmen doesn't. As a matter of fact all caricatures of different peoples bother me.

BTW, did I misspell anything?

As a moderator, do you feel comfortable calling posters ignorant and baiting others? You want to revisit the issue which was regarding posters feeling compelled to criticize the spelling of Mullin for the umpteenth time?

I didn't call anyone ignorant and you are fun to mess with because you take everything so seriously. I would not call it baiting because it is not mean-spirited.

And, people misspell all the time, who cares whether it is Mullin, Mullins, Molten Mulva, or Mother Goose.

Maybe we should all just call him Kris and be done with it

 

[Joeche]

This "discussion" proves one thing-that we are feeling so sanguine about the current status of St John's hoops that we can now afford to bring up ridiculously beaten old "horses" like our mascot and the reason for our site's name which I thought was in response to the idea that with our name change came a host of changes that we hated including a letting go of our storied tradition.(Whew! Talk about run on sentences!) Anyway, more to the stupid point of this discussion, that logo with the long nosed Indian caricature is offensive! When I entered as a Frosh at St. John's in 1959, the team wore warm up jackets with a beautiful logo of a dignified looking Native American in head dress. The same logo was used on the pockets of the blue blazers they wore on road trips by plane to distant arenas. That's right! -Blue blazers with white shirts and ties! Anyway, I always wear my worn old redmen sweat shirt to home games just to piss off anyone who thinks Red Storm is a fitting name change.

 

[sean]

This "discussion" proves one thing-that we are feeling so sanguine about the current status of St John's hoops that we can now afford to bring up ridiculously beaten old "horses" like our mascot and the reason for our site's name which I thought was in response to the idea that with our name change came a host of changes that we hated including a letting go of our storied tradition.(Whew! Talk about run on sentences!) Anyway, more to the stupid point of this discussion, that logo with the long nosed Indian caricature is offensive! When I entered as a Frosh at St. John's in 1959, the team wore warm up jackets with a beautiful logo of a dignified looking Native American in head dress. The same logo was used on the pockets of the blue blazers they wore on road trips by plane to distant arenas. That's right! -Blue blazers with white shirts and ties! Anyway, I always wear my worn old redmen sweat shirt to home games just to piss off anyone who thinks Red Storm is a fitting name change.

I have hated the name redstorm since it's adoption. I am now and always will be on team Redmen as far as name choice goes.

 

[GardenCity62]

That warm up jacket in the late 50's would be politically incorrect today but it was the best in all college BB.

 

[postell25]

Don't get me wrong, Red Storm is a brutal, brutal team name but I can't help but wonder if the poor timing in St. John's history is why people still cling so tightly to the Redmen name.

St. John's last year as the Redmen they were 12-17 and the next three years after that, they were 38-44. Of course that left an even worse taste in our mouths about the Red Storm moniker.

I can't help but wonder if during the name transition St. John's still maintained being a perennial tournament team would we all have cared as much as we do.

Because honestly, anyone who really would want the Redmen name back at this point, even with the backlash that would come with it, is really just using the name to try to get back to a previous era of St. John's basketball that was elite and nationally relevant.