Facilities Development

[19854ever]

Can we get chair back seats on the other side of the lower level of CA already ?

A modest upgrade for our long term season ticket holders many 50 plus fans with back problems. Seriously rose hill has more chair backs than we do.

Beast/JSJ what is Mike Cragg saying about this? it’s a disgrace we are in 2022, and we can’t get more comfortable seating ? what’s the cost ? We are paying for tshirts and free tickets but we can’t put the dollars together to completely fix the lower bowl of alumni hall?  
 

 

[NYCRedmen]

I was told that the reason we can't have backs on all the chairs is because doing so would result in a lower seating capacity.  Can't say by how many, or if its actually accurate, but this is what I was told by someone in the Athletic Department.  

 

[ADORAZ]

I was told that the reason we can't have backs on all the chairs is because doing so would result in a lower seating capacity.  Can't say by how many, or if its actually accurate, but this is what I was told by someone in the Athletic Department.  

I definitely believe that. The rows are already crammed enough as they are, I don't think there'd be space for seat backs without totally redesigning the bleachers.

 

[SI1996]

This was on mjmahers wedding registry.

 

[19854ever]

NYC redmen not surprised by the answer, sounds BS to me they easily could have done to one side of CA what they could have done to the other.

Here is my speculation: 

The last upgrade was done like 2008-2009 during the Norm era and the Great Recession. As we know interest in the program was waning and Father Harrington when not got going on extravagant vacations was running the University into the ground . I feel possibly the school ran into cost overruns and said screw it we will make the 500 members in the Red and White Club happy but screw the other long term season ticket holders on the other side. When Norm turns it around we will  put chair backs on the other side of the lower bowl.

 
Or  perhaps Chris Monasch possibly did raise enough funds  and the school used the money intended for the upgrade towards other projects, and operational costs only a few people would know the answer to that.

But end of the day 3 presidents and 3 coaches later we still do not have chairback seats on the other side of alumni hall, a decade plus has come and gone. The school alienated two high end donors who could have helped in the interim. 



 

 

[beast of the east]

Can we get chair back seats on the other side of the lower level of CA already ?

A modest upgrade for our long term season ticket holders many 50 plus fans with back problems. Seriously rose hill has more chair backs than we do.

Beast/JSJ what is Mike Cragg saying about this? it’s a disgrace we are in 2022, and we can’t get more comfortable seating ? what’s the cost ? We are paying for tshirts and free tickets but we can’t put the dollars together to completely fix the lower bowl of alumni hall?  




 

I'm not certain of the math, but seatbacks reduce seating capacity. The lower sections of ca I believe are all season ticket holders.

I believe the following two things would happen should we convert the lower sections to seat backs:

1. Some season ticket holders would get squeezed out to the upper sections.
2. The prices of the new lower seat back chairs would rise to match the current price of seatbacks.

The last time we moved season ticket holders out of the lower sections of CA there were massive cancellations. That was done to create a student section
It was done in a down year, and that student section was mostly empty. Renovations created student sections behind the baskets, and that section (opposite the sju bench) became available to season ticket holders again.

I do agree that it would be nice to have an all seatback arena but we would need some sort of expansion plan to create more space to do so.

I know a strategic plan for the athletic department is included in Father Stanley's strategic plan.   I am pretty sure that if it includes modernization of CA, that would be prioritized after improvements to athletic facilities, which have been characterized as worst in the Big East.

I am also guessing with no inside information that following the release and approval of Father Shanley's strategic plan for the university, a capital fundraising campaign will follow, with a target of $300-60]0 million.   How successful that campaign is will determine how much and how fast the strategic plan will get executed. 

Of note. I know that in 2014 Villanova's strategic plan included the building of new dorms and other structures south of lancaster avenue, and to build a new on campus arena.  The target of the following capital campaign was $600 million, which was exceeded and earlier than scheduled.

It is incredible what Villanova accomplished with that campaign, and the resulting construction even includes a stone overpass to connect with main campus.   The Pavillion was renovated after the community pushed back on a new larger arena based on increased traffic.

Villanovas donor base contributes $100 million per year. Which allows the school to spend money to not only make money, but to hire better, fund more scholarships, and any other projects.

Complex answer to a simple question.  Sorry for the detail, but I believe it isn't as simple as slapping seatbacks on existing bleacher style seats.  I'm anxious to see the approved university strategic plan, which I believe will contain a plan for CA improvements.

Please note that all giveaways like shirts, hats are sponsored by corporations.   A generous donor recently underwrote $10k and through a gift challenge another 10 000 was raised to pay for free food etc

There is zero cost in giving away CA tickets that would otherwise go unsold.  So you cannot convert unsold tickets to capital improvements.

 

[PharmDJohnnie11]

Can we get chair back seats on the other side of the lower level of CA already ?

A modest upgrade for our long term season ticket holders many 50 plus fans with back problems. Seriously rose hill has more chair backs than we do.

Beast/JSJ what is Mike Cragg saying about this? it’s a disgrace we are in 2022, and we can’t get more comfortable seating ? what’s the cost ? We are paying for tshirts and free tickets but we can’t put the dollars together to completely fix the lower bowl of alumni hall?  


 

I voiced my concerns to Cragg about this on twitter because my Dad isn't in the best health and no way in hell would he be able to sit an entire game in the bleachers with no setbacks where my season tickets are. He acknowledged it and actually offered me free tickets to a game of my choice this season to sit in the seat-back section. I thought that was really nice of him. 

But I totally agree with you. I'm in my early 30s and me and my friend who have the season tickets together are extremely uncomfortable during games. I can't even imagine what it would be like for a lot of our older fans with health issues. 

 

[mjmaherjr]

This was on mjmahers wedding registry.

In case any wealthy donors are looking at that registry let me very clear air conditioning was 1 spot higher than seat backs

 

[beast of the east]

This was on mjmahers wedding registry.

In case any wealthy donors are looking at that registry let me very clear air conditioning was 1 spot higher than seat backs

Everyone has a different comfort level and heat does rise, but I have been wearing a short sleeve shirt and a light zip up. Ca is colder to start games and if it gets warm I remove the zip up. Honestly the problem is worse in a packed CA which we haven't had much of before the Providence game. I seem to remember a long tine ago the windows at the top of CA could be opened but not sure it was so long ago.

 

[beast of the east]

NYC redmen not surprised by the answer, sounds BS to me they easily could have done to one side of CA what they could have done to the other.

Here is my speculation: 

The last upgrade was done like 2008-2009 during the Norm era and the Great Recession. As we know interest in the program was waning and Father Harrington when not got going on extravagant vacations was running the University into the ground . I feel possibly the school ran into cost overruns and said screw it we will make the 500 members in the Red and White Club happy but screw the other long term season ticket holders on the other side. When Norm turns it around we will  put chair backs on the other side of the lower bowl.

 
Or  perhaps Chris Monasch possibly did raise enough funds  and the school used the money intended for the upgrade towards other projects, and operational costs only a few people would know the answer to that.

But end of the day 3 presidents and 3 coaches later we still do not have chairback seats on the other side of alumni hall, a decade plus has come and gone. The school alienated two high end donors who could have helped in the interim. 





 

Not getting into back and forth but the school did no such thing. One was and still is a long term generous donor supporting academic, athletic, and campus ministry initiatives. The other alienated himself from the school and was never a long term donor.

Just as an fyi, seat back seating at c.a. costs a lot more per seat for fans than the seats on the other side of the court.  

During the Norm years we lost a lot of season ticket holders which I believe created the space to do half seatbacks in one section.  By the way there are many more red white members than seat back chairs.

The answer may be outgrowing CA via attendance and playing more at UBS or MSG.  

 

[room112]

It's always discussed that adding seatbacks would reduce the capacity at CA. I'll offer two questions:

1) How much the capacity reduced when the seatbacks were added to one section years ago?

2) When was the last time CA was sold out and capacity was even an issue? My assumption is that if we're getting to the point of selling out CA, then it's likely time to add more games at MSG. 

 

[19854ever]

Regarding
capacity prior to the 2008 renovation alumni hall had 6008 bleacher seats max capacity(with the exception of one row between the upper and lover levels). After 2008 renovations capacity fell to 5600. 

What I would do is add the seat backs, lower capacity make the arena more comfortable for the men’s games we have there. Unless there is a plan to move more games to the UBS/MSG which I’m  in favor of . But it’s very hard to sell out games at alumni. I’m sorry older guys with means are not going to pay a certain amount of $$ to sit on a crappy bleacher seat. 

If they can’t do this modest upgrade then move all games to UBS/MSG.
 

 

[Red Storm Rising]

There is a mandatory number of seats in order to play Big East games. If we lower the capacity much more we couldn't play Big East teams on campus. I'm not sure what the minimum is but we are near it.

 

[room112]

Regarding
capacity prior to the 2008 renovation alumni hall had 6008 bleacher seats max capacity(with the exception of one row between the upper and lover levels). After 2008 renovations capacity fell to 5600. 

What I would do is add the seat backs, lower capacity make the arena more comfortable for the men’s games we have there. Unless there is a plan to move more games to the UBS/MSG which I’m  in favor of . But it’s very hard to sell out games at alumni. I’m sorry older guys with means are not going to pay a certain amount of $$ to sit on a crappy bleacher seat. 

If they can’t do this modest upgrade then move all games to UBS/MSG.

 

Thanks. I believe it's been previously discussed on here about how financially it wouldn't work out to play more games at MSG. The school would end up losing money on most of the games unless their is a significant increase in attendance.

 

[beast of the east]

Regarding
capacity prior to the 2008 renovation alumni hall had 6008 bleacher seats max capacity(with the exception of one row between the upper and lover levels). After 2008 renovations capacity fell to 5600. 

What I would do is add the seat backs, lower capacity make the arena more comfortable for the men’s games we have there. Unless there is a plan to move more games to the UBS/MSG which I’m  in favor of . But it’s very hard to sell out games at alumni. I’m sorry older guys with means are not going to pay a certain amount of $$ to sit on a crappy bleacher seat. 

If they can’t do this modest upgrade then move all games to UBS/MSG.


 

Thanks. I believe it's been previously discussed on here about how financially it wouldn't work out to play more games at MSG. The school would end up losing money on most of the games unless their is a significant increase in attendance.

That's definitely true, plus when you don't attain close to 10,000 break even at MSG the optics of it are pretty bad.   The school has always felt there was an advantage in having MSG as a home court, but it doesn't make sense to play so many games there year after year if fans won't come out.    

A good example will be this week.   The games against UCONN and Villanova have suddenly become very important in a season resurrected by 2 road wins.   Both those programs typically draw very well at the Garden with their own fans.   The sense I get on here at least is that our local followers will be content to watch the game on TV.

If anything, we will move more games to Carnesecca arena, not the other way around.   We can have a real home court advantage at CA, we don't really have one at MSG.  Plus MSG doesn't really provide enough of a boost in ticket sales at this juncture.

 

 

[RedStormNC]

Outside of budget to do so, and future of MSG/UBS, I think the answer to how many casual (non-die hard) alums/fans WON'T go back to CA after attending because of the bleacher seating is an important consideration.

Hardest part to any sales business is getting a customer, the next hardest part is satisfying them enough that they remain loyal and return, and also recommend to a friend.

A win can be thrilling, but if the experience is less than rewarding, it can be a detractor.

 

[beast of the east]

Regarding
capacity prior to the 2008 renovation alumni hall had 6008 bleacher seats max capacity(with the exception of one row between the upper and lover levels). After 2008 renovations capacity fell to 5600. 

What I would do is add the seat backs, lower capacity make the arena more comfortable for the men’s games we have there. Unless there is a plan to move more games to the UBS/MSG which I’m  in favor of . But it’s very hard to sell out games at alumni. I’m sorry older guys with means are not going to pay a certain amount of $$ to sit on a crappy bleacher seat. 

If they can’t do this modest upgrade then move all games to UBS/MSG.



 

I agree with you that seatbacks are more comfortable and more desirable.  However, for reasons already noted, without expanding the arena footprint, seat backs aren't very feasible.   

You should be aware that if we were to just do the lower bleachers opposite the benches, those ticket prices would rise considerably.  I don't know the exact $ number but I guess at least $250-500 per season ticket.     Not only that, but season ticket locations are awarded on a priority point basis that includes annual donations plus points for each consecutive year as a season ticket holder.   Once you cancel your tickets, those reward points reset to zero, so that someone who had tickets for 10 years gives them up, would have less priority than a current season ticket holder with 3 years (who is building points).

The below prices do not include seat back locations, I am guessing because they are not available.* NO CONTRIBUTION REQUIRED FOR THE ENDZONE PACKAGE

• Diamond Package (VIP Courtside)- $1,760 + $4,000 Contribution= $5,760 per seat
• Platinum Package (Courtside)- $1,315 + $2,500 Contribution= $3,815 per seat
• Gold Package (Sections 107,117)- $930 + $250 Contribution= $1,180 per seat
• Silver Package (Sections 106,108,116,118)- $840 + $150 Contribution= $990 per seat
• Bronze Package (Sections 104,105,109,110,114,115,119,120)- $680 + $100 Contribution= $780 per seat
• EndZone Package (100 Level EndZones and 200 Level)- $510 per seat

As noted above, mandatory donations are not required at the lowest priced package, and Bronze and Silver only require a modest donation.    I checked with the Athletic department last week and learned that we were the very last Big East school to implement a mandatory donation for season tickets.   As to can see the best seats require the largest donations.   I would speculate that at those levels ($2500 and $4000 per ticket), purchasers are already providing significant support to the university financially.

I've been reminded that at Cameron Indoor stadium, Duke fans sit on bleachers and they sell out all the time.   Winning does that for you.

 

 

[beast of the east]

Outside of budget to do so, and future of MSG/UBS, I think the answer to how many casual (non-die hard) alums/fans WON'T go back to CA after attending because of the bleacher seating is an important consideration.

Hardest part to any sales business is getting a customer, the next hardest part is satisfying them enough that they remain loyal and return, and also recommend to a friend.

A win can be thrilling, but if the experience is less than rewarding, it can be a detractor.

I partially agree with you.   I sat in bleachers until very very recently.  I never had a problem with them.   Considering how many times my coat or sweater fell below the old wooden bleachers, the upgrade from flat wooden bleachers to molded plastic seats was actually an improvement.    I got to know just about all the people surrounding me in the bleachers, and saw little boys who accompanied their dads and sometimes moms grow into teenagers, college aged, and young adults.

One thing is for certain.  If we were starting from scratch today we'd have a larger on campus arena with seat backs, likely at a much higher ticket price.   You can still go to an on campus game for a cost equivalent to going to the movies, and you can't do that for a professional NBA game.   Money aside, I'd rather see a St Johns game, where most games really matter.   

I do believe that if you snapped your fingers and suddenly there were seat backs at CA, most of our TV viewing audience would still not buy season tickets.

 

 

[IDRAFT]

A few things I will note as a season ticket holder.

1. - Unless I have been given incorrect information the "mandatory" Red/White donation only applied to your MSG location. As Beast noted - there are MSG locations where the extra payment is not required, but also, as it was explained to me by SJU representatives at the time it had no bearing on your location for on campus games. Which lately is a high percentage of the games. If I'm wrong on this someone please correct me and apologies in advance.

2. If someone has a serious back issue I get it on the seatback issue. Overall Carnesecca is uncomfortable as it's cramped. But I much rather deal with both of those things than pay anything close to what I suspect would happen if a major renovation occurred. And I talk to people (some long-time friends) at the games and I strongly suspect that it's fans who want to attend one or two games on campus who most care about such things. And I'm over 64, with a serious arthritis issue in my knees. Yes, I feel it more than I did 30 years ago, that's life. Considering what would happen to ticket prices, and also potentially seat locations, I'm not eager to have a dramatically larger invoice for a more modern on campus arena, especially since games that dictate it (based on the combination of opponents or better SJU teams) can be played at MSG or UBS. I am not aware of Seton Hall planning a Walsh renovation, or Georgetown planning on building a new campus arena.

3. It's hot in there! But I don't know if it is any of you, personally I am always amazed how people dress at a SJU game. People in sweatshirts and flannel shirts far outnumber those in shirt sleeves. I haven't worn anything heavier than an SJU T-shirt in thirty years at Carnesecca. If it's not your first game there and you are in a sweatshirt you need to take some personal responsibility for your discomfit.

 

 

[room112]

Outside of budget to do so, and future of MSG/UBS, I think the answer to how many casual (non-die hard) alums/fans WON'T go back to CA after attending because of the bleacher seating is an important consideration.

Hardest part to any sales business is getting a customer, the next hardest part is satisfying them enough that they remain loyal and return, and also recommend to a friend.

A win can be thrilling, but if the experience is less than rewarding, it can be a detractor.

I partially agree with you.   I saw in bleachers until very very recently.  I never had a problem with them.   Considering how many times my coat or sweater fell below the old wooden bleachers, the upgrade from flat wooden bleachers to molded plastic seats was actually an improvement.    I got to know just about all the people surrounding me in the bleachers, and saw little boys who accompanied their dads and sometimes moms grow into teenagers, college aged, and young adults.

One thing is for certain.  If we were starting from scratch today we'd have a larger on campus arena with seat backs, likely at a much higher ticket price.   You can still go to an on campus game for a cost equivalent to going to the movies, and you can't do that for a professional NBA game.   Money aside, I'd rather see a St Johns game, where most games really matter.   

I do believe that if you snapped your fingers and suddenly there were seat backs at CA, most of our TV viewing audience would still not buy season tickets.


 

Beast, I noticed you've often commented on here how fans would rather watch on TV then attend games. Here's something I'd ask you to consider. Most members on this board, who represent many of the die hard fans, don't even live in the NYC area anymore. Additionally, after 20+ years of futility, there are very few "die hard" fans left who'd go out of their way to attend every game. You mention the term "start from scratch" with regard to the facilities, well I'd recommend the administration should start from scratch when it comes to building the fan base for this program.