ESPN Summer Shootaround and Power Rankings

[paultzman]

Logic and brevity would be so appreciated.

 

[Pleasedontbanmeagain]

Logic and brevity would be so appreciated.

Logic: #82 SOS for Creighton, coming from MVC aka mid major conference, did not beat 1 ranked team last year, relying on one player will likely run into some trouble in a major conference.

But, no. Let's just pretend nothing can go wrong for Creighton. Funny though, if it was us moving from the MVC to the BE, people here would be panicking.

 

[paultzman]

Logic and brevity would be so appreciated.

Logic: #82 SOS for Creighton, coming from MVC aka mid major conference, did not beat 1 ranked team last year, relying on one player will likely run into some trouble in a major conference.

But, no. Let's just pretend nothing can go wrong for Creighton. Funny though, if it was us moving from the MVC to the BE, people here would be panicking.

Nice job on the brevity.

 

[Pleasedontbanmeagain]

Logic and brevity would be so appreciated.

Logic: #82 SOS for Creighton, coming from MVC aka mid major conference, did not beat 1 ranked team last year, relying on one player will likely run into some trouble in a major conference.

But, no. Let's just pretend nothing can go wrong for Creighton. Funny though, if it was us moving from the MVC to the BE, people here would be panicking.

Nice job on the brevity.

Please Paultz, show me the err in my ways. What part of that logic is flawed?

 

[paultzman]

Logic and brevity would be so appreciated.

Logic: #82 SOS for Creighton, coming from MVC aka mid major conference, did not beat 1 ranked team last year, relying on one player will likely run into some trouble in a major conference.

But, no. Let's just pretend nothing can go wrong for Creighton. Funny though, if it was us moving from the MVC to the BE, people here would be panicking.

Nice job on the brevity.

Please Paultz, show me the err in my ways. What part of that logic is flawed?

Excellent job on logic as well. Hopefully that raps up this endless saga.

 

[Pleasedontbanmeagain]

Logic and brevity would be so appreciated.

Logic: #82 SOS for Creighton, coming from MVC aka mid major conference, did not beat 1 ranked team last year, relying on one player will likely run into some trouble in a major conference.

But, no. Let's just pretend nothing can go wrong for Creighton. Funny though, if it was us moving from the MVC to the BE, people here would be panicking.

Nice job on the brevity.

Please Paultz, show me the err in my ways. What part of that logic is flawed?

Excellent job on logic as well. Hopefully that raps up this endless saga.

I'm over the Creighton talk until the season starts, but just think of me when Creighton struggles a bit for a stretch if not the entire season

 

[Amaseinyourface]

No one including me is saying he sucks. He is a very good player. But all I'm asking is to reserve comparing him to Larry Bird and other NBA legends until we see what he can do against top competition. He has yet to play a tough schedule. All the teams know what he can do by now as well as his tendencies. They know if they shut him down or at least hold him to 10 PPG that Creighton has a terrible shot of winning. For god's sake last year's Creighton team had the 82nd toughest schedule. If we had that rank for SOS we'd be going nuts on this forum saying how pathetic it is. But because it's Creighton everyone on here seems to give them a pass and pretend they are coming from the ACC or Big Ten and already battle-tested. If you want to join the big boys club you have to prove you are one of the big boys and can routinely beat the big boys. Creighton has yet to do such. Just don't be shocked if they finish .500 in conference. If you think the MVC is major college hoops, you are saying that Southern Illinois, Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Evansville, etc. are all major teams. What a joke. Let's see how Creighton responds to their first REAL test this year in the big boys club before crowning them and McDermott as godly.

He scored 41 points against Wichita State that made the final four.

And Wichita State to you is a team that will consistently compete for the Final Four? No doubt they had a great team last year...but what happens when those guys leave? They are not Duke who can simply send guys to the NBA/overseas then reload easily and still compete at that level. You can't take 1 great year a mid major had and assume they are always going to do it. George Mason also made the Final Four...would it really impress you that much if Creighton beat them? What I'm implying is that WSU, George Mason, etc. are simply cinderellas who had their magical seasons. Wichita State is not a major program. Let's see him put up 41 against a top Big East defense. Won't happen. It's funny how all I ask is for Creighton to prove themselves at the major level for 1 season before crowning them, yet people refuse and want to crown them as kings of basketball when all they have proven to be is a very good mid major that relies on 1 player.

IMO what many of you guys are doing is guaranteeing a prospect who tore up the minor leagues is going to tear up the major leagues. But as we all know, there are many busts who simply can't handle the next step up. Why is Creighton excused from this logic?

No one is crowning them. Your confusing infatuation with respect.

FWIW I don't think they will finish top 4 this year.

 

[LJSA]

Creighton plays solid team ball and McDermott will get his 20+ no matter who they are playing. We'll see how well that translates this coming season. I think they'll be decent. I think we are better, but our overall team IQ seems to only be what it needs to be once or twice a decade, so we'll see.

 

[austour]

No one including me is saying he sucks. He is a very good player. But all I'm asking is to reserve comparing him to Larry Bird and other NBA legends until we see what he can do against top competition. He has yet to play a tough schedule. All the teams know what he can do by now as well as his tendencies. They know if they shut him down or at least hold him to 10 PPG that Creighton has a terrible shot of winning. For god's sake last year's Creighton team had the 82nd toughest schedule. If we had that rank for SOS we'd be going nuts on this forum saying how pathetic it is. But because it's Creighton everyone on here seems to give them a pass and pretend they are coming from the ACC or Big Ten and already battle-tested. If you want to join the big boys club you have to prove you are one of the big boys and can routinely beat the big boys. Creighton has yet to do such. Just don't be shocked if they finish .500 in conference. If you think the MVC is major college hoops, you are saying that Southern Illinois, Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Evansville, etc. are all major teams. What a joke. Let's see how Creighton responds to their first REAL test this year in the big boys club before crowning them and McDermott as godly.

He scored 41 points against Wichita State that made the final four.

And Wichita State to you is a team that will consistently compete for the Final Four? No doubt they had a great team last year...but what happens when those guys leave? They are not Duke who can simply send guys to the NBA/overseas then reload easily and still compete at that level. You can't take 1 great year a mid major had and assume they are always going to do it. George Mason also made the Final Four...would it really impress you that much if Creighton beat them? What I'm implying is that WSU, George Mason, etc. are simply cinderellas who had their magical seasons. Wichita State is not a major program. Let's see him put up 41 against a top Big East defense. Won't happen. It's funny how all I ask is for Creighton to prove themselves at the major level for 1 season before crowning them, yet people refuse and want to crown them as kings of basketball when all they have proven to be is a very good mid major that relies on 1 player.

IMO what many of you guys are doing is guaranteeing a prospect who tore up the minor leagues is going to tear up the major leagues. But as we all know, there are many busts who simply can't handle the next step up. Why is Creighton excused from this logic?

No one is crowning them. Your confusing infatuation with respect.

FWIW I don't think they will finish top 4 this year.

I don't think they'll be top 4 either, I've got them at #5, though they might, but I do think McDermott will be 1st team all BE if not POY. It's already been pointed out that he performed just fine against high major competition over the past 2 years. He's been a first team all american for two years.

And you can go on and on about a stat like 82nd SOS but if you hold that in high regard then you have to hold their RPI ranking in high regard as well. All comes from the same analysis and that was 24, higher than all but Marquette, Gtown and Butler and they lost less than both of those teams. We'll see how they do.

PS Larry Bird played NOBODY before the tournament each year, things were different then. Yet everyone knew he was a great player. Of course he wasn't named an all american until his 2nd year.

 

[Marillac]

No one including me is saying he sucks. He is a very good player. But all I'm asking is to reserve comparing him to Larry Bird and other NBA legends until we see what he can do against top competition. He has yet to play a tough schedule. All the teams know what he can do by now as well as his tendencies. They know if they shut him down or at least hold him to 10 PPG that Creighton has a terrible shot of winning. For god's sake last year's Creighton team had the 82nd toughest schedule. If we had that rank for SOS we'd be going nuts on this forum saying how pathetic it is. But because it's Creighton everyone on here seems to give them a pass and pretend they are coming from the ACC or Big Ten and already battle-tested. If you want to join the big boys club you have to prove you are one of the big boys and can routinely beat the big boys. Creighton has yet to do such. Just don't be shocked if they finish .500 in conference. If you think the MVC is major college hoops, you are saying that Southern Illinois, Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Evansville, etc. are all major teams. What a joke. Let's see how Creighton responds to their first REAL test this year in the big boys club before crowning them and McDermott as godly.

He scored 41 points against Wichita State that made the final four.

And Wichita State to you is a team that will consistently compete for the Final Four? No doubt they had a great team last year...but what happens when those guys leave? They are not Duke who can simply send guys to the NBA/overseas then reload easily and still compete at that level. You can't take 1 great year a mid major had and assume they are always going to do it.

WTF? Now you are creating arguments and responding to them? Nobody wrote nor even implied Wichita State could win (or lose or do anything for that matter) consistently. How is that even relevant to the competition McDermott faced LAST season. If Wichita Sate wins the next 30 NCAA titles or loses every game for a decade, it does nothing to change the past. You even conceded that Wichita was a great team last season. Pull it together, man.

What's the point of bringing up Duke? Did you watch a single Wichita State game last season? They were very likely the most physical team in the entire country. They flat-out bullied teams in the tournament with their toughness, athleticism, and strength. Wichita would have eaten Duke's lunch, but that is neither here nor there. McDermott dropped 41 points on Wichita and its sensational 6'8 forward, Cleanthony Early. Early will be drafted in the NBA and is as good as any forward in the new (or old) Big East. He dropped 24 and 10 on the eventual national champs, Louisville in the Final Four. They lost by 4 to Louisville and had the game tied with under 3 minutes...led most of the game and were even up by 12 in the second half.

Creighton won a game in the tournament (MVAC was 2-0 in the first round) and will return 7 of 8 top players. They will be good. I haven't seen a single poster predict that they'll win the new Big East. Give it a f*cking rest.

 

[Pleasedontbanmeagain]

No one including me is saying he sucks. He is a very good player. But all I'm asking is to reserve comparing him to Larry Bird and other NBA legends until we see what he can do against top competition. He has yet to play a tough schedule. All the teams know what he can do by now as well as his tendencies. They know if they shut him down or at least hold him to 10 PPG that Creighton has a terrible shot of winning. For god's sake last year's Creighton team had the 82nd toughest schedule. If we had that rank for SOS we'd be going nuts on this forum saying how pathetic it is. But because it's Creighton everyone on here seems to give them a pass and pretend they are coming from the ACC or Big Ten and already battle-tested. If you want to join the big boys club you have to prove you are one of the big boys and can routinely beat the big boys. Creighton has yet to do such. Just don't be shocked if they finish .500 in conference. If you think the MVC is major college hoops, you are saying that Southern Illinois, Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Evansville, etc. are all major teams. What a joke. Let's see how Creighton responds to their first REAL test this year in the big boys club before crowning them and McDermott as godly.

He scored 41 points against Wichita State that made the final four.

And Wichita State to you is a team that will consistently compete for the Final Four? No doubt they had a great team last year...but what happens when those guys leave? They are not Duke who can simply send guys to the NBA/overseas then reload easily and still compete at that level. You can't take 1 great year a mid major had and assume they are always going to do it.

WTF? Now you are creating arguments and responding to them? Nobody wrote nor even implied Wichita State could win (or lose or do anything for that matter) consistently. How is that even relevant to the competition McDermott faced LAST season. If Wichita Sate wins the next 30 NCAA titles or loses every game for a decade, it does nothing to change the past. You even conceded that Wichita was a great team last season. Pull it together, man.

What's the point of bringing up Duke? Did you watch a single Wichita State game last season? They were very likely the most physical team in the entire country. They flat-out bullied teams in the tournament with their toughness, athleticism, and strength. Wichita would have eaten Duke's lunch, but that is neither here nor there. McDermott dropped 41 points on Wichita and its sensational 6'8 forward, Cleanthony Early. Early will be drafted in the NBA and is as good as any forward in the new (or old) Big East. He dropped 24 and 10 on the eventual national champs, Louisville in the Final Four. They lost by 4 to Louisville and had the game tied with under 3 minutes...led most of the game and were even up by 12 in the second half.

Creighton won a game in the tournament (MVAC was 2-0 in the first round) and will return 7 of 8 top players. They will be good. I haven't seen a single poster predict that they'll win the new Big East. Give it a f*cking rest.

Relax. Cursing...really? :blink:

 

[paultzman]

No one including me is saying he sucks. He is a very good player. But all I'm asking is to reserve comparing him to Larry Bird and other NBA legends until we see what he can do against top competition. He has yet to play a tough schedule. All the teams know what he can do by now as well as his tendencies. They know if they shut him down or at least hold him to 10 PPG that Creighton has a terrible shot of winning. For god's sake last year's Creighton team had the 82nd toughest schedule. If we had that rank for SOS we'd be going nuts on this forum saying how pathetic it is. But because it's Creighton everyone on here seems to give them a pass and pretend they are coming from the ACC or Big Ten and already battle-tested. If you want to join the big boys club you have to prove you are one of the big boys and can routinely beat the big boys. Creighton has yet to do such. Just don't be shocked if they finish .500 in conference. If you think the MVC is major college hoops, you are saying that Southern Illinois, Bradley, Drake, Loyola, Evansville, etc. are all major teams. What a joke. Let's see how Creighton responds to their first REAL test this year in the big boys club before crowning them and McDermott as godly.

He scored 41 points against Wichita State that made the final four.

And Wichita State to you is a team that will consistently compete for the Final Four? No doubt they had a great team last year...but what happens when those guys leave? They are not Duke who can simply send guys to the NBA/overseas then reload easily and still compete at that level. You can't take 1 great year a mid major had and assume they are always going to do it.

WTF? Now you are creating arguments and responding to them? Nobody wrote nor even implied Wichita State could win (or lose or do anything for that matter) consistently. How is that even relevant to the competition McDermott faced LAST season. If Wichita Sate wins the next 30 NCAA titles or loses every game for a decade, it does nothing to change the past. You even conceded that Wichita was a great team last season. Pull it together, man.

What's the point of bringing up Duke? Did you watch a single Wichita State game last season? They were very likely the most physical team in the entire country. They flat-out bullied teams in the tournament with their toughness, athleticism, and strength. Wichita would have eaten Duke's lunch, but that is neither here nor there. McDermott dropped 41 points on Wichita and its sensational 6'8 forward, Cleanthony Early. Early will be drafted in the NBA and is as good as any forward in the new (or old) Big East. He dropped 24 and 10 on the eventual national champs, Louisville in the Final Four. They lost by 4 to Louisville and had the game tied with under 3 minutes...led most of the game and were even up by 12 in the second half.

Creighton won a game in the tournament (MVAC was 2-0 in the first round) and will return 7 of 8 top players. They will be good. I haven't seen a single poster predict that they'll win the new Big East. Give it a f*cking rest.

Amen

 

[salty dog]

People are going to be onto McDermott's game more so this year. He's not A very good athlete and doesn't move laterally very well. He has a tough time with more athletic bigs aka Sanchez, Sampson, Obekpa. He's an excellent shooter who does a great job within the framework or his offense. He's a phenomenal player, but really used Echenique effectively. None of those team's that he had success against, we're running teams like us. I think Creigton will fare pretty well this year, but it will be a lot tougher than they've been used to.

Boy sounds like a Syracuse fan's talk thirty years ago about Mullin.

 

[postell25]

Just some more good press....

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask.../87448/under-the-radar-storylines-for-2013-14

9. St. John’s as a sleeper: I’m a little surprised more people aren’t talking about the Red Storm as a contender for the Big East title along with Marquette, Creighton and Georgetown. When it comes to pure talent, Steve Lavin’s squad should be the top team in the league. St. John’s returns three double-digit scorers in D’Angelo Harrison (17.8 PPG), JaKarr Sampson (14.9) and Phil Greene (10.1). Forward God'sgift Achiuwa is back after redshirting last season. He averaged 9.4 points in 2011-12. Center Chris Obekpa also returns after averaging a national-best 3.9 blocks. And the Storm add two players -- point guard Rysheed Jordan and forward Orlando Sanchez -- who should have an immediate impact. Jordan was ranked as the third-best point guard in the Class of 2013. The 6-9 Sanchez, who will be eligible for only one season, is regarded as a future pro. If Lavin finds a way to meld all of this talent, St. John’s could be a Top-25 mainstay by midseason.

 

[Andrew]

Just some more good press....

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask.../87448/under-the-radar-storylines-for-2013-14

9. St. John’s as a sleeper: I’m a little surprised more people aren’t talking about the Red Storm as a contender for the Big East title along with Marquette, Creighton and Georgetown. When it comes to pure talent, Steve Lavin’s squad should be the top team in the league. St. John’s returns three double-digit scorers in D’Angelo Harrison (17.8 PPG), JaKarr Sampson (14.9) and Phil Greene (10.1). Forward God'sgift Achiuwa is back after redshirting last season. He averaged 9.4 points in 2011-12. Center Chris Obekpa also returns after averaging a national-best 3.9 blocks. And the Storm add two players -- point guard Rysheed Jordan and forward Orlando Sanchez -- who should have an immediate impact. Jordan was ranked as the third-best point guard in the Class of 2013. The 6-9 Sanchez, who will be eligible for only one season, is regarded as a future pro. If Lavin finds a way to meld all of this talent, St. John’s could be a Top-25 mainstay by midseason.

The Buzz Williams to Texas comment sure got Marquette fans disturbed.

 

[Marillac]

Last year he went for 27/11 against Cincy, 30/8 against Wisconsin, 29/9 against Az St, 34/9 against Cal, and 21/9 against Duke. He'll be just fine.

He never faced a ranked opponent until the NCAA tourney when Duke throttled them. When they beat Wisconsin they weren't ranked. When they beat Miami they weren't ranked and they were missing a key starter.

It is foolish to give more weight to where a team was ranked at the time of the matchup than were they were ranked with a full body of work (with a few narrow exceptions). Wisconsin was a ranked team when the season ended...Miami was a top 10 team. Cal was a tournament team. Wichita State was a f*cking FInal Four Team from Creighton's conference! The MVC is legit. Every single MVC team that played Louisville (four) played them very close. Louisville blew out most of the Big East this seson.

Guess what? Cleanthony Early is as good as any forward in the Big East this year year. I've known this kid since his high school days. He's 6'8, athletic, skilled, and well coached. McDermott matched up with him multiple games this past season.

Good call, Joe3. Guess who just destroyed a CURRENTLY ranked team on the road by 28 points? The #4 in the country from the Big East just gave up their lead in the Big East to a mid-major "imposter" led by a "one-trick pony" who will teams will get wise to and block his shot repeatedly.

Also worth noting is that Wichita State is in the top ten. How could this be? The MVC is supposed to be terrible?

 

[Moose]

Last year he went for 27/11 against Cincy, 30/8 against Wisconsin, 29/9 against Az St, 34/9 against Cal, and 21/9 against Duke. He'll be just fine.

He never faced a ranked opponent until the NCAA tourney when Duke throttled them. When they beat Wisconsin they weren't ranked. When they beat Miami they weren't ranked and they were missing a key starter.

It is foolish to give more weight to where a team was ranked at the time of the matchup than were they were ranked with a full body of work (with a few narrow exceptions). Wisconsin was a ranked team when the season ended...Miami was a top 10 team. Cal was a tournament team. Wichita State was a f*cking FInal Four Team from Creighton's conference! The MVC is legit. Every single MVC team that played Louisville (four) played them very close. Louisville blew out most of the Big East this seson.

Guess what? Cleanthony Early is as good as any forward in the Big East this year year. I've known this kid since his high school days. He's 6'8, athletic, skilled, and well coached. McDermott matched up with him multiple games this past season.

Good call, Joe3. Guess who just destroyed a CURRENTLY ranked team on the road by 28 points? The #4 in the country from the Big East just gave up their lead in the Big East to a mid-major "imposter" led by a "one-trick pony" who will teams will get wise to and block his shot repeatedly.

Also worth noting is that Wichita State is in the top ten. How could this be? The MVC is supposed to be terrible?

How much time did it take to dig this up?

 

[Marillac]

Last year he went for 27/11 against Cincy, 30/8 against Wisconsin, 29/9 against Az St, 34/9 against Cal, and 21/9 against Duke. He'll be just fine.

He never faced a ranked opponent until the NCAA tourney when Duke throttled them. When they beat Wisconsin they weren't ranked. When they beat Miami they weren't ranked and they were missing a key starter.

It is foolish to give more weight to where a team was ranked at the time of the matchup than were they were ranked with a full body of work (with a few narrow exceptions). Wisconsin was a ranked team when the season ended...Miami was a top 10 team. Cal was a tournament team. Wichita State was a f*cking FInal Four Team from Creighton's conference! The MVC is legit. Every single MVC team that played Louisville (four) played them very close. Louisville blew out most of the Big East this seson.

Guess what? Cleanthony Early is as good as any forward in the Big East this year year. I've known this kid since his high school days. He's 6'8, athletic, skilled, and well coached. McDermott matched up with him multiple games this past season.

Good call, Joe3. Guess who just destroyed a CURRENTLY ranked team on the road by 28 points? The #4 in the country from the Big East just gave up their lead in the Big East to a mid-major "imposter" led by a "one-trick pony" who will teams will get wise to and block his shot repeatedly.

Also worth noting is that Wichita State is in the top ten. How could this be? The MVC is supposed to be terrible?

How much time did it take to dig this up?

Search function...I'd say less than two minutes from search to hitting enter on the response Time well worth it to further discredit Joe3. and his myriad of Creighton posts that I probably spent over an hour replying to over the year.

 

[L J S A]

I was hoping to bump my post where I said Wichita State was a better team, but all I found was me saying I think we'll be better than Creighton.