Duke Game Thread
- Thread starter Jack Williams
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Class of 72
Active member
I think the Duke fans were late buying into this game and only showed huge interest when it became obvious coach K could win the 1K game at MSG. Hence they bought up the upper level seats. Our fans clearly were more into this game than the Duke alums that gave up their Sunday tickets at the Met.
beast of the east
Active member
I don't think anyone who seriously follows college basketball would argue that the very best programs have nearly an entire roster of highly recruited players. When they play most mid-major competition, Duke's last five guys on the bench could likely beat their opponent. Our top 5 guys played Duke toe to toe, which says a lot. The strategy for a Duke is always to get to the other team's bench, where the talent difference is stark, and they can really take advantage. So, for us, the strategy against a Duke would be to keep our best players on the floor if we can avoid foul. trouble.
But if anything, at least for a day, it appeared that a few of our guys would be worthy of serious minutes if they were on Duke's roster, which says a lot.
Avon Barksdale
Member
i wouldnt be shocked if Duke fails to make it out of the first weekend on the NCAA Tournament again.
Every January it seems like they have a ton of bark but come March they have been going out with a whimper (excluding the 2010 Championship team).
So many things happened yesterday, but two macro pieces stand out above all.
If we played like that every game, we'd be 15-4 (Butler, DePaul), maybe even 16-3 (Seton Hall), with our only losses to 3 of the Top 5 teams in the country. While it hurts to miss out on these big opportunities, it is the inconsistency with which we approach other, more attainable opportunities that hurts much more. This is not an issue isolated to this season.
Another game where we have a lead at the half and get upended in the 2nd half. It appears that depth being an issue vs. not being an issue is going to be one of the next great redmen.com debates. I don't care if it's depth, being invaded by aliens in the locker room, or any other reason - we have a 2nd half problem and that's the issue. In this 2-5 January we've put together, we are +28 in the first half, and -53 in the 2nd half, an 81 point spread in 7 games. Who cares what the root causation is, it's probably a number of things. What we need is a solution because it's very tough to win when you're getting beat in the 2nd half almost every game.
Thought the staff prepared an excellent gameplan and the players executed well. But we are a 30-35 minute team right now and unless that changes we are going to have a tough time materially turning this thing over the next month. Rooting for it.
If we played like that every game, we'd be 15-4 (Butler, DePaul), maybe even 16-3 (Seton Hall), with our only losses to 3 of the Top 5 teams in the country. While it hurts to miss out on these big opportunities, it is the inconsistency with which we approach other, more attainable opportunities that hurts much more. This is not an issue isolated to this season.
Another game where we have a lead at the half and get upended in the 2nd half. It appears that depth being an issue vs. not being an issue is going to be one of the next great redmen.com debates. I don't care if it's depth, being invaded by aliens in the locker room, or any other reason - we have a 2nd half problem and that's the issue. In this 2-5 January we've put together, we are +28 in the first half, and -53 in the 2nd half, an 81 point spread in 7 games. Who cares what the root causation is, it's probably a number of things. What we need is a solution because it's very tough to win when you're getting beat in the 2nd half almost every game.
Thought the staff prepared an excellent gameplan and the players executed well. But we are a 30-35 minute team right now and unless that changes we are going to have a tough time materially turning this thing over the next month. Rooting for it.
Should be noted that the best of these teams - Duke and Nova - ended the games on 26-7 and 38-20 runs, respectively. Seems pretty clear to me that strategy is to simply absorb SJU haymakers in the first, and maybe a few early in the second, knowing that serious damage can be inflicted in the last 10 minutes. You really have to go out of your way to play teams as evenly as we played them - even besting them - only to get run over like that down the stretch. We turn into a different team; energy and attention to detail so apparent in the first 30ish minutes just not there in final 10.
So is Coack K overrated and a bad coach despite 1,000 wins? Are his 9 All-Americans overrated?
Class of 72
Active member
They start 3 freshmen, two of which would start for Kentucky but the rest of the team is nowhere near the UK level even with 5 McDonald's AA. You play Okafor and Tyus tight and they lose to many of the good teams that have depth. Lavin's approach was a good one yesterday but we can't beat a Duke team playing 4 and a half men All game long. Granted Balamou and Branch are not meant to play quality minutes at this level but providing Harrison with breaks to rest or cool his jets from the bench should have been part of the strategy. He looked like a frustrated player forcing up 14 shots. He was, according to some here, a wounded warrior going to battle against one of the best backcourts in college and in the final 6 minutes it cost us. You are as strong as your weakest link and 35 minutes is totally unacceptable if all the over analysis of his performance is to be considered valid. Whether it was his arch, his lift, his inability to drive off his injured calf side, his shoulder pain, or whatever was a factor, Duke exploited that weakness.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Not by any means, and i never said anything remotely close to that, but i will be happy to repeat for a simpleton like you that Lavin sure is.
Just a sidenote that we all already knew...their fans are the absolute worst in the world. When Puke was down 10 there was an 8 yr old in my row who tossed his popcorn in the air and threw his dad's jacket on some ppl in front of them.
What's worse is another guy sitting in front of me legitimately looked like he was going to beat his kid when they were losing..the kid was freaking out bc he was raised to be a sore loser and the dad was just as pissed. In a way im glad they won bc I didn't want to see what that guy would do to his child.
What's worse is another guy sitting in front of me legitimately looked like he was going to beat his kid when they were losing..the kid was freaking out bc he was raised to be a sore loser and the dad was just as pissed. In a way im glad they won bc I didn't want to see what that guy would do to his child.
A couple of observations from yesterday's game.
Agree with those who said the crowd was 50/50 or maybe 60/40 St. Johns. A nice turnout by our fans, and they were loud.
Had to feel bad for Harrison, clearly limited but giving it what he had. He played a 50-year old man game out there, all brains and no legs. He still produced, but I don't think I agree with the decision to run him out there all of those minutes ahead of Branch. I think the team may have been better with 30 minutes of Branch and 10 of Harrison rather than the other way around.
I am not overly encouraged by this game. We got great production out of Dom and Jordan. Jordan still did a few stupid things, but far fewer than usual. So that part is good. As for Dom, the truth of the matter is that he was out of control all afternoon. Somehow he got away with it almost every single time, and everything he threw at the basket went in. It was one of those days for him. I love the kid, and I couldn't be happier that he had a big day. But really, the boxscore numbers yesterday are not who he is.
Most importantly, if D'Angelo were healthy you would not have gotten what you did out of Jordan and Pointer. To some extent, his scoring would have come at their expense. I agree that the net may have put us a little bit ahead, and may even have been enough to win the game, though.
The way the game played out was totally predictable for anyone who has watched the team since league play started. We played hard for 30 minutes (actually close to 35, which was 5 more than I expected) and then ran out of gas due to disuse of the bench and foul trouble for Obekpa. It's hard to understand how Lavin cannot find 6-8 minutes a game for Alibegovic. He may not be ready for primetime, but you have to find a minute or two for him coming in and out of timeouts if nothing else to get CO and Dom some rest. Until he figures that out, expect more late second-half collapses.
In this game that late collapse was helped along by Coach K going with the Twin Towers look late with Plumlee and Okafor. He coached a lousy game until then (and deserved to lose), but his timing on that was perfect.
Agree with those who think that as presently constructed Duke is a second round loss in the NCAAs. However they have some time to toughen up. Judging from yesterday Okafor has a lot to learn about how to dominate on the offensive end (he should be demanding the ball in the post) and even more to learn on the defensive end. However, I expect that he will figure all of that out. If they play Plumlee with him then that will help their toughness, and their guards (Cook and Jones) are mentally tough. I think it's still a developing team.
Agree with those who said the crowd was 50/50 or maybe 60/40 St. Johns. A nice turnout by our fans, and they were loud.
Had to feel bad for Harrison, clearly limited but giving it what he had. He played a 50-year old man game out there, all brains and no legs. He still produced, but I don't think I agree with the decision to run him out there all of those minutes ahead of Branch. I think the team may have been better with 30 minutes of Branch and 10 of Harrison rather than the other way around.
I am not overly encouraged by this game. We got great production out of Dom and Jordan. Jordan still did a few stupid things, but far fewer than usual. So that part is good. As for Dom, the truth of the matter is that he was out of control all afternoon. Somehow he got away with it almost every single time, and everything he threw at the basket went in. It was one of those days for him. I love the kid, and I couldn't be happier that he had a big day. But really, the boxscore numbers yesterday are not who he is.
Most importantly, if D'Angelo were healthy you would not have gotten what you did out of Jordan and Pointer. To some extent, his scoring would have come at their expense. I agree that the net may have put us a little bit ahead, and may even have been enough to win the game, though.
The way the game played out was totally predictable for anyone who has watched the team since league play started. We played hard for 30 minutes (actually close to 35, which was 5 more than I expected) and then ran out of gas due to disuse of the bench and foul trouble for Obekpa. It's hard to understand how Lavin cannot find 6-8 minutes a game for Alibegovic. He may not be ready for primetime, but you have to find a minute or two for him coming in and out of timeouts if nothing else to get CO and Dom some rest. Until he figures that out, expect more late second-half collapses.
In this game that late collapse was helped along by Coach K going with the Twin Towers look late with Plumlee and Okafor. He coached a lousy game until then (and deserved to lose), but his timing on that was perfect.
Agree with those who think that as presently constructed Duke is a second round loss in the NCAAs. However they have some time to toughen up. Judging from yesterday Okafor has a lot to learn about how to dominate on the offensive end (he should be demanding the ball in the post) and even more to learn on the defensive end. However, I expect that he will figure all of that out. If they play Plumlee with him then that will help their toughness, and their guards (Cook and Jones) are mentally tough. I think it's still a developing team.
I really don't mean this to be personal but this is the kind of stuff that kills me about the "modern" world. Any objective person who has watched Harrison play his whole career can clearly see WITH THEIR OWN EYES that he is way less than 100%. But because no one TELLS you you can't trust your own eyes, use your own common sense. No coach or player is going to admit an injury, that's just the way it is. The same lack of reasonong is what makes the whole deflategate nonsense so comical; 11 of the 12 balls for only one team deflated and no one can use their common sense and come to the conclusion that the Patriots tampered with them. I am sure not the first or last time this type of thing happened. We have become a people bombarded with relentless, silly information and think that replaces thinking for ourselves.
basketballjones
Well-known member
Apologies if this was already covered, as I didn't get a chance to read the entire game thread.
I do not understand Lav's need to call a timeout at 8:32 left in the game. We just scored to take a 12 point lead (I think), we have them reeling a little, the crowd is in it and the team full of confidence that we're going to continue to out hustle Duke the rest of the way. Before Duke inbounds the ball Lav calls timeout. He does this, or tries to do it in a lot of games as the team grabs momentum. Sometimes the ref just ignores him, which happened in the Marquette game.
This team was running on emotion. They were pumped and playing great. That timeout was perfect to allow Duke to regroup and I'm sure coach K told his team with 8 minutes to go, you guys have to do it now. Now, or forget winning this game. I don't think we scored again till 4:07.
Can somebody explain why Lav continues to call timeouts just as the team grabs momentum and is on the way to burying their opponent? It is maddening.
I do not understand Lav's need to call a timeout at 8:32 left in the game. We just scored to take a 12 point lead (I think), we have them reeling a little, the crowd is in it and the team full of confidence that we're going to continue to out hustle Duke the rest of the way. Before Duke inbounds the ball Lav calls timeout. He does this, or tries to do it in a lot of games as the team grabs momentum. Sometimes the ref just ignores him, which happened in the Marquette game.
This team was running on emotion. They were pumped and playing great. That timeout was perfect to allow Duke to regroup and I'm sure coach K told his team with 8 minutes to go, you guys have to do it now. Now, or forget winning this game. I don't think we scored again till 4:07.
Can somebody explain why Lav continues to call timeouts just as the team grabs momentum and is on the way to burying their opponent? It is maddening.