Defining Moment for this Program

Every coach faces a defining moment for the program. Unfortunately, when it comes to SJU, to those are bitter and painful defining moments.

But to keep it timely, I will stick to Lavin. His defining moment was DJ Kennedy's season ending injury.

That team had a legitimate final four chance. It was experienced and battle tested. If DJ was healthy, the team gets a better seed and doesn't have to change it's rotation and game in the NCAA tournament. A final four run for Lavin, completely changes the way the program is viewed today.
 
would be Fran being such a nut in practice.

What if that never happened?
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What if Lapchick had never retired and Alcindor committed.

What if Erving accepted a scholarship.

What if Lou offered Payton.

What if what if.

Except those are not defining moments. They're turning points. The defining moment of this program is Chris Mullin missing a free throw against Temple in 1984 and SJU losing in the first round of the NCAA tournament. That moment crystallizes in amber the futility that is Saint John's basketball.
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you are correct, not a defining moment for program, I meant it as the "Defining Moment for Lavin". Since there really is no positive outcome to date, the use of turning point wouldn't be accurate either.
 
We all followed the OP's, lead, but it was Fun that got it right. A defining moment is defined as the point at which the essential nature of a person or group is revealed or identified. When Mullin, perhaps our greatest player and shooter ever, missed the first end of a one and one, it defined our, as Newsman puts, high level of mediocrity. I am not that harsh on the program. We certainly had glory days before color photography was around. Our defining moment could be the last few minutes of our NCAA loss to Auburn. My memory is fading, but didn't we lose to them in the second round in Berry's senior year? I just remember Looie essentially giving up the last few minutes. No press, no timeout usage, no attempt to somehow, like the great programs do, pull it off despite the odds. A defining moment for me was Reggie Carter's senior year. Up a few points in the final minutes against Penn with a trip to the final 4 at stake, Looie decides to do something he never does, and goes zone. Tony Price hits a few uncontested jumpers, and Penn wins. That's SJU, even when good, not good enough. Even Villanova had their shining moment. We never had ours.
 
The loss to Auburn was never contested. Chuck Person killed them and their were no answers
John Farmer was the only one who showed up.
Berry was a junior and declared afterwards despite Mahoney watching his doorstep every day, hoping
he wouldn't dot it.
 
The day Louie hung up his sweater for good.

Minus a handful of nice seasons here and there, we have been a bad program since.
 
Hopefully Lavin's future rests on this season and whether we make tournament. Anyone with a brain would want him gone if we fail for a 4th year in a row. That's unacceptable.

So to me the turning point is not necessarily Lav's fault but the Keith Thomas situation killed us just days before the season started. Those extra 25 minutes he would've played per game would've been huge. Half the games we play I think about him and the glass eating he could provide.
 
"A" defining moment was when Mahoney was chosen as head coach. We went from the 4th winningest program in college basketball history, with the single largest media audience in the country to what we are today. It was a decision by the administration to be mom & pop instead of professional and that is how the program has been defined ever since. During this period Duke was the anti-St John's. Everything we as a private school were doing wrong, they were doing right and leveraged it brilliantly. Not coincidentally Duke took our place and became the 4th winningest program in that time. Not coincidentally either, Duke was not considered an elite academic school as it is today and St. John's through the 1980s had a much better reputation academically and alum were widely perceived as shrewd, hard working Michael Clayton types (thus the Hollywood stereotype of Clooney)
All that said, St Johns is still the premier team in the NYC area - even counting yukon. There is still plenty of potential and opportunity and being NY's team hasn't changed through all of the garbage from Mahoney to Lavin. That is something. Bring in some genuine professionals starting at the Administration level (hopefully the new Pres is the beginning of that) and it could be better than ever.
 
"A" defining moment was when Mahoney was chosen as head coach. We went from the 4th winningest program in college basketball history, with the single largest media audience in the country to what we are today. It was a decision by the administration to be mom & pop instead of professional and that is how the program has been defined ever since. During this period Duke was the anti-St John's. Everything we as a private school were doing wrong, they were doing right and leveraged it brilliantly. Not coincidentally Duke took our place and became the 4th winningest program in that time. Not coincidentally either, Duke was not considered an elite academic school as it is today and St. John's through the 1980s had a much better reputation academically and alum were widely perceived as shrewd, hard working Michael Clayton types (thus the Hollywood stereotype of Clooney)
All that said, St Johns is still the premier team in the NYC area - even counting yukon. There is still plenty of potential and opportunity and being NY's team hasn't changed through all of the garbage from Mahoney to Lavin. That is something. Bring in some genuine professionals starting at the Administration level (hopefully the new Pres is the beginning of that) and it could be better than ever.
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Excellent post Paul. Despite my long term frustration & disappointment in the program, I share your optimism. A first class administrative team & coach can get us to a consistent, competive level of play and make us proud. Just my gut, but I believe the resources will continue to be there to make that happen. We'll see.
 
"A" defining moment was when Mahoney was chosen as head coach. We went from the 4th winningest program in college basketball history, with the single largest media audience in the country to what we are today. It was a decision by the administration to be mom & pop instead of professional and that is how the program has been defined ever since. During this period Duke was the anti-St John's. Everything we as a private school were doing wrong, they were doing right and leveraged it brilliantly. Not coincidentally Duke took our place and became the 4th winningest program in that time. Not coincidentally either, Duke was not considered an elite academic school as it is today and St. John's through the 1980s had a much better reputation academically and alum were widely perceived as shrewd, hard working Michael Clayton types (thus the Hollywood stereotype of Clooney)
All that said, St Johns is still the premier team in the NYC area - even counting yukon. There is still plenty of potential and opportunity and being NY's team hasn't changed through all of the garbage from Mahoney to Lavin. That is something. Bring in some genuine professionals starting at the Administration level (hopefully the new Pres is the beginning of that) and it could be better than ever.
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Too true Paul. There are so many outside influences that are intent on pushing STJ down the totem pole (and other hoops only programs in general, but especially those who transitioned from the old BE to the new BE). It takes a shrewd and professional approach to the task of building a world class program to counteract those other influences. The school hasn't had that approach. To be fair, the closest they came was the hire of Lavin which, compared to all that came before it, seemed like a real aggressive outside the box move, but that doesn't appear to be working out as most would have hoped.
 
"A" defining moment was when Mahoney was chosen as head coach. We went from the 4th winningest program in college basketball history, with the single largest media audience in the country to what we are today. It was a decision by the administration to be mom & pop instead of professional and that is how the program has been defined ever since. During this period Duke was the anti-St John's. Everything we as a private school were doing wrong, they were doing right and leveraged it brilliantly. Not coincidentally Duke took our place and became the 4th winningest program in that time. Not coincidentally either, Duke was not considered an elite academic school as it is today and St. John's through the 1980s had a much better reputation academically and alum were widely perceived as shrewd, hard working Michael Clayton types (thus the Hollywood stereotype of Clooney)
All that said, St Johns is still the premier team in the NYC area - even counting yukon. There is still plenty of potential and opportunity and being NY's team hasn't changed through all of the garbage from Mahoney to Lavin. That is something. Bring in some genuine professionals starting at the Administration level (hopefully the new Pres is the beginning of that) and it could be better than ever.
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Excellent post Paul. Despite my long term frustration & disappointment in the program, I share your optimism. A first class administrative team & coach can get us to a consistent, competive level of play and make us proud. Just my gut, but I believe the resources will continue to be there to make that happen. We'll see.
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I am still sticking with the coach thru this tr an hope he put together a stella recruiting class where the pieces come together and a big run in the ncaa next yr. But I am still going to hope we make it this yr If not and we go NIT hope we do well and the next yrs class come thru and pushes us over the hill
 
The defining moment was hiring Norm instead of John Calipari.

Everyone here has good points but as far as I'm concerned Cal being shot down by Louie and Rutledge takes the cake. That is the day we could've coletely righted the ship and it was a vintage case of SJU mishandling a golden opportunity.
 
Cal's cancer did not allow him to work in Queens.
 
"A" defining moment was when Mahoney was chosen as head coach. We went from the 4th winningest program in college basketball history, with the single largest media audience in the country to what we are today. It was a decision by the administration to be mom & pop instead of professional and that is how the program has been defined ever since. During this period Duke was the anti-St John's. Everything we as a private school were doing wrong, they were doing right and leveraged it brilliantly. Not coincidentally Duke took our place and became the 4th winningest program in that time. Not coincidentally either, Duke was not considered an elite academic school as it is today and St. John's through the 1980s had a much better reputation academically and alum were widely perceived as shrewd, hard working Michael Clayton types (thus the Hollywood stereotype of Clooney)
All that said, St Johns is still the premier team in the NYC area - even counting yukon. There is still plenty of potential and opportunity and being NY's team hasn't changed through all of the garbage from Mahoney to Lavin. That is something. Bring in some genuine professionals starting at the Administration level (hopefully the new Pres is the beginning of that) and it could be better than ever.
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Honestly, and not trying to knock the program, but I've felt in recent years that we were NY's team by default. What other major program is there in the NYC area that could stake claim to it? We're the only one in a major conference, even if the Big East is slowly fading from that.
 
Room112-
Honestly, and not trying to knock the program, but I've felt in recent years that we were NY's team by default. What other major program is there in the NYC area that could stake claim to it? We're the only one in a major conference, even if the Big East is slowly fading from that.[/quote]

NYC not a college sports town, except for special events like Coach K's 1000th win.
SJU fan base has tepid interest these last several years.
 
"A" defining moment was when Mahoney was chosen as head coach. We went from the 4th winningest program in college basketball history, with the single largest media audience in the country to what we are today. It was a decision by the administration to be mom & pop instead of professional and that is how the program has been defined ever since. During this period Duke was the anti-St John's. Everything we as a private school were doing wrong, they were doing right and leveraged it brilliantly. Not coincidentally Duke took our place and became the 4th winningest program in that time. Not coincidentally either, Duke was not considered an elite academic school as it is today and St. John's through the 1980s had a much better reputation academically and alum were widely perceived as shrewd, hard working Michael Clayton types (thus the Hollywood stereotype of Clooney)
All that said, St Johns is still the premier team in the NYC area - even counting yukon. There is still plenty of potential and opportunity and being NY's team hasn't changed through all of the garbage from Mahoney to Lavin. That is something. Bring in some genuine professionals starting at the Administration level (hopefully the new Pres is the beginning of that) and it could be better than ever.
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Excellent post Paul. Despite my long term frustration & disappointment in the program, I share your optimism. A first class administrative team & coach can get us to a consistent, competive level of play and make us proud. Just my gut, but I believe the resources will continue to be there to make that happen. We'll see.
Click to expand...

I am still sticking with the coach thru this tr an hope he put together a stella recruiting class where the pieces come together and a big run in the ncaa next yr. But I am still going to hope we make it this yr If not and we go NIT hope we do well and the next yrs class come thru and pushes us over the hill
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A big run in the NCAAs next year?? pushes us over the hill?
You know that practically every contributing player is graduating and/or leaving, right?

And I hope he does recruit Stella. At least then his Tennessee Williams references might make sense.
 
WHAT ABOUT RECRUITING AND SIGNING WAYNE McKOY... NUMBER ONE SCHOOLBOY IN NATION.. NEVER GREW AN INCH,NEVER LIVED UP TO EXPECTATIONS.. WHAT ABOUT SIGNING ROB,THE TREE CORNEGY....7 FT HS STANDOUT,WHO DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY BASKETBALL,AND WENT TO CALIF.........WHAT ABOUT MIDNITE MADNESS WHEN FRANCESA AND MAD DOG WELCOMED FELIPE LOPEZ AND FRANMAN HAS RARELY BEEN SEEN SINCE..
 
WHAT ABOUT RECRUITING AND SIGNING WAYNE McKOY... NUMBER ONE SCHOOLBOY IN NATION.. NEVER GREW AN INCH,NEVER LIVED UP TO EXPECTATIONS.. WHAT ABOUT SIGNING ROB,THE TREE CORNEGY....7 FT HS STANDOUT,WHO DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY BASKETBALL,AND WENT TO CALIF.........WHAT ABOUT MIDNITE MADNESS WHEN FRANCESA AND MAD DOG WELCOMED FELIPE LOPEZ AND FRANMAN HAS RARELY BEEN SEEN SINCE..
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what about that time we didnt use ALL CAPS to do a post?
 
when Paultzman changed his avatar to the NIT logo, that was a bit of a dagger for me...
 
In terms of impact on the program overall this century, Mike Jarvis not taking the Washington Wizards job. Here's a quote from ESPN on May 19, 2000:
If coach Mike Jarvis leaves the Red Storm, associate head coach Kevin Clark is expected to be one of the first coaches interviewed. But sources close to the Red Storm administration told ESPN.com that Hofstra's Jay Wright will be the favorite.
 
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