Defensive Shortcomings

docbutler

Member
I've heard a great deal about how young we are, and how we need time to grow. Yes, we are mostly sophmores and freshmen, and there is no doubting that youth is a factor in our performance potentials. But for my money, the losses at the Charleston Classic go on the coaching staff...particularly the loss to Baylor. In any man's intelligent approach to this game, assessing your opponents strengths and what he does best...and the attempt to limit that, are the keys to success. I have no idea what the coaching staff was thinking about on the defensive end last sunday.
Baylor was a fine basketball team. Admittedly, it is tough to find a weakness. However, it would be clear to anyone scouting that team that the speed of their guards, the outside shooting of Heslip, and their offensive rebounding were their primary assets. Someone will have to explain to me then, how this driveway shooting kid managed to be constantly open to the tune of 29 points (It reminded me of that game we lost against St. Mary's (was it last year?), where we permitted this kid to drain open looks for the entire game (much like last sunday...that guy didn't have a game like that for the rest of the year). It's as though the coaching staff doesn't believe a hot streak can continue.
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. The result?.... we saw the Baylor backcourt racing past them for lay-ups, 2 on 1s, and kickouts that resulted in continuous open looks. Our defense was happening out at the top of the key...their offense was happening elsewhere. Coach Drew must have been licking his chops when he saw this. I thought our kids overall, played a terrific game...in spite of the poorly conceived strategy. You couldn't have asked for more from Greene, Sampson, or Harrison. They all shot lights out. We very clearly needed to pull the defense in...with an emphasis in preventing penetration from those guards. Heslip's fine game was easily preventable...he's not a kid who makes his own shot. He's a spot up kid who runs to positions. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. If you're playing Baylor, your defense simply needs to know where this kid is...at all times.
I would also add that when you have a shot blocker like Obepka, you need to funnel the opponent down the middle. Getting beat off either wing makes no sense whatsoever.
No doubt..Baylor was a tough opponent. But I think our kids had us in position to win. A litle tactical help from the coaching staff might have been much appreciated.
I also thought that the refing in this game also didn't help. Walton and Jackson were reaching in for the entire game. Nothing...I mean nothing.. was called. I respect their aggressive style of play, but when the officials leave them to operate without consequence, you're in trouble. Add to that, a number of silly touch fouls called on SJU, and you have the distinct potential to change the outcome of a close game.
 
Agree with your post. I thought we did a poor job defensively on Heslip. Quite frankly, he won the game for Baylor. There was no way we should've allowed him to go off for 29 points. I don't care about the other parts he has around him. Baylor, albeit good, isn't some dynamite team.

Fortunately, we have time to rectify the situation. It did in 2010-2011, so I don't see why that can't be the case for this season.

I also thought the officiating were shoddy throughout the tourney. The refs played a role in getting Murray State back into the game against the Johnnies. There were some horrible calls against us during the latter stages of the first half. It killed our momentum and our lead. They weren't much better throughout the midway point of the 2nd half.

They were slightly (very, slightly) better against Baylor, but not much better. Hopefully, this tournament was a wakeup call, and we are able to take some good things away from the Charleston Classic, as we move forward.
 
Well tonight they gave up only 53 points which is a big difference. I think the staff has addressed the approach
with each opponent. Still a very inexperienced team
 
Well tonight they gave up only 53 points which is a big difference. I think the staff has addressed the approach
with each opponent. Still a very inexperienced team

Not that inexperienced (Harrison, Garrett, Pointer, and Greene). Watched the G'town - Indiana game and witnessed an excellent performance from a sophmoric laden Hoya team.
 
Well tonight they gave up only 53 points which is a big difference. I think the staff has addressed the approach
with each opponent. Still a very inexperienced team

Not that inexperienced (Harrison, Garrett, Pointer, and Greene). Watched the G'town - Indiana game and witnessed an excellent performance from a sophmoric laden Hoya team.

Just one game. Not to mention, Starks and Lubick are juniors, while Porter, Whittington and Hopkins are sophomores. G'town shot the 3-ball well, which kept them alive throughout most of the night.

It's a long season, folks.
 
Haven't seen the stats for the Holy Cross game but just by the eye test...

We seemed to close out on open shooter better...Balamou in particular...very high energy...

When we had problems tonight, it seem to be dealing with their motion offense (cuts etc...)...reminded me of some of the early games last year...

I wish we would run some of these sets...Right now the offense is a bunch of dribbling at the top of key...and too many forced shots
 
Haven't seen the stats for the Holy Cross game but just by the eye test...

We seemed to close out on open shooter better...Balamou in particular...very high energy...

When we had problems tonight, it seem to be dealing with their motion offense (cuts etc...)...reminded me of some of the early games last year...

I wish we would run some of these sets...Right now the offense is a bunch of dribbling at the top of key...and too many forced shots

Just got back from the game
When we run offensive sets, we get good shots
When we freelance, there is too much dribbling and 1 on 1 and we get low percentage shots
We are not playing good fundamental defense
Too much switching often leaves us in bad mismatches with small guys covering a big down low
Seems like we are more interested in blocking shots than playing sound fundamental defense
Sampson was great, Balamou is tremendously athletic
I saw Sanchez standing next to Gift before the game and looked several inches taller
Nice to see Coach Carnesecca, Mel Davis, Mel Utley, Mason Jr and Paris Horne at the game
In short, we have a young and very athletic team that needs time and experience to jell
 
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. .

I haven't thought of our guards as "slow". Can anyone else weigh in on this assessment? I happen to like guards picking up their man high. It burns clock, and putting pressure on the ball successfully disrupts the other team from running their offense, and when done with enough intensity causes mistakes and turnovers. Of course, if you are consistently getting beat off the dribble, you have to figure out what is going wrong, and correct it - most likely in practice. We are a very deep team, and having fresh legs provide consistent defensive pressure shouldn't be a problem.

I'm pretty confident that Lavin, Keady & co. having a solid strategy in terms of applying pressure on the ball up high.
 
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. .

I haven't thought of our guards as "slow". Can anyone else weigh in on this assessment? I happen to like guards picking up their man high. It burns clock, and putting pressure on the ball successfully disrupts the other team from running their offense, and when done with enough intensity causes mistakes and turnovers. Of course, if you are consistently getting beat off the dribble, you have to figure out what is going wrong, and correct it - most likely in practice. We are a very deep team, and having fresh legs provide consistent defensive pressure shouldn't be a problem.

I'm pretty confident that Lavin, Keady & co. having a solid strategy in terms of applying pressure on the ball up high.

Beast...The quote "was compared to the Baylor guards". I did not think of our guards as slow either....but the Baylor guards were considerably faster. Pressure as a disruption is fine, unless you are being beat off the dribble with regularity. it is my opinion that once a speedy point guard gets inside the defense, only bad things can happen. This happened for Baylor far too frequently, and our defense was off balance most of the game. The help that was slow recovering also made it possible for Heslip to get open...often and inexcusably. How else would you explain his 29 points...our players couldn't stay with him? Teams are getting a book on St. John's that centers on penetration and kick out. Murray St. did that as well. Taking time off their clock isn't going to be very important, if they're penetrating and kicking out to open shooters. There are very few teams in the country that can effectively cover the Baylor guards out top and then prevent them from penetrating.
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.
 
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. .

I haven't thought of our guards as "slow". Can anyone else weigh in on this assessment? I happen to like guards picking up their man high. It burns clock, and putting pressure on the ball successfully disrupts the other team from running their offense, and when done with enough intensity causes mistakes and turnovers. Of course, if you are consistently getting beat off the dribble, you have to figure out what is going wrong, and correct it - most likely in practice. We are a very deep team, and having fresh legs provide consistent defensive pressure shouldn't be a problem.

I'm pretty confident that Lavin, Keady & co. having a solid strategy in terms of applying pressure on the ball up high.

Beast...The quote "was compared to the Baylor guards". I did not think of our guards as slow either....but the Baylor guards were considerably faster. Pressure as a disruption is fine, unless you are being beat off the dribble with regularity. it is my opinion that once a speedy point guard gets inside the defense, only bad things can happen. This happened for Baylor far too frequently, and our defense was off balance most of the game. The help that was slow recovering also made it possible for Heslip to get open...often and inexcusably. How else would you explain his 29 points...our players couldn't stay with him? Teams are getting a book on St. John's that centers on penetration and kick out. Murray St. did that as well. Taking time off their clock isn't going to be very important, if they're penetrating and kicking out to open shooters. There are very few teams in the country that can effectively cover the Baylor guards out top and then prevent them from penetrating.
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.

No disrepect meant. It was a good observation - I was really objectively questioning if our guards are slow. Getting beat off the dribble is sometimes a matter of footwork and not speed.

Sometimes coaches don't make the necessary adjustments in game that seem obvious to astute watchers. With NR, I always questioned his moves, since they often appeared dumb. It's funny, though, in his very last season I was chatting with a now very successful college coach I know, and he asked, "Do you think Roberts is getting better as a coach?" It was funny he asked, I said, because after a bunch of inept moves for years, it appeared to me that he was making the right moves. He said he asked because he thought also that NR was making better moves. So, yea, we all question coaches, but with a guy like Keady assisting Lavin, I really feel that these guys are far superior to my own limited knowledge.

Again, no disrespect. I know you enjoy breaking down a game and commenting on what work and what doesn't. HAve a Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for your measured reply.
 
I've heard a great deal about how young we are, and how we need time to grow. Yes, we are mostly sophmores and freshmen, and there is no doubting that youth is a factor in our performance potentials. But for my money, the losses at the Charleston Classic go on the coaching staff...particularly the loss to Baylor. In any man's intelligent approach to this game, assessing your opponents strengths and what he does best...and the attempt to limit that, are the keys to success. I have no idea what the coaching staff was thinking about on the defensive end last sunday.
Baylor was a fine basketball team. Admittedly, it is tough to find a weakness. However, it would be clear to anyone scouting that team that the speed of their guards, the outside shooting of Heslip, and their offensive rebounding were their primary assets. Someone will have to explain to me then, how this driveway shooting kid managed to be constantly open to the tune of 29 points (It reminded me of that game we lost against St. Mary's (was it last year?), where we permitted this kid to drain open looks for the entire game (much like last sunday...that guy didn't have a game like that for the rest of the year). It's as though the coaching staff doesn't believe a hot streak can continue.
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. The result?.... we saw the Baylor backcourt racing past them for lay-ups, 2 on 1s, and kickouts that resulted in continuous open looks. Our defense was happening out at the top of the key...their offense was happening elsewhere. Coach Drew must have been licking his chops when he saw this. I thought our kids overall, played a terrific game...in spite of the poorly conceived strategy. You couldn't have asked for more from Greene, Sampson, or Harrison. They all shot lights out. We very clearly needed to pull the defense in...with an emphasis in preventing penetration from those guards. Heslip's fine game was easily preventable...he's not a kid who makes his own shot. He's a spot up kid who runs to positions. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. If you're playing Baylor, your defense simply needs to know where this kid is...at all times.
I would also add that when you have a shot blocker like Obepka, you need to funnel the opponent down the middle. Getting beat off either wing makes no sense whatsoever.
No doubt..Baylor was a tough opponent. But I think our kids had us in position to win. A litle tactical help from the coaching staff might have been much appreciated.
I also thought that the refing in this game also didn't help. Walton and Jackson were reaching in for the entire game. Nothing...I mean nothing.. was called. I respect their aggressive style of play, but when the officials leave them to operate without consequence, you're in trouble. Add to that, a number of silly touch fouls called on SJU, and you have the distinct potential to change the outcome of a close game.

Good points but I think blaming it on the staff is a bit much; experienced playground players know to stick with a hot shooter, especially a spot up shooter. Team should have adjusted; and the inexperienced angle shouldn't be a factor, ball is ball and these guys have been playing forever.
 
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.

I recalled you doing the same a couple of seasons ago, during the early stages, and it came back to bite you in the rear.
 
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. .

I haven't thought of our guards as "slow". Can anyone else weigh in on this assessment? I happen to like guards picking up their man high. It burns clock, and putting pressure on the ball successfully disrupts the other team from running their offense, and when done with enough intensity causes mistakes and turnovers. Of course, if you are consistently getting beat off the dribble, you have to figure out what is going wrong, and correct it - most likely in practice. We are a very deep team, and having fresh legs provide consistent defensive pressure shouldn't be a problem.

I'm pretty confident that Lavin, Keady & co. having a solid strategy in terms of applying pressure on the ball up high.

Beast...The quote "was compared to the Baylor guards". I did not think of our guards as slow either....but the Baylor guards were considerably faster. Pressure as a disruption is fine, unless you are being beat off the dribble with regularity. it is my opinion that once a speedy point guard gets inside the defense, only bad things can happen. This happened for Baylor far too frequently, and our defense was off balance most of the game. The help that was slow recovering also made it possible for Heslip to get open...often and inexcusably. How else would you explain his 29 points...our players couldn't stay with him? Teams are getting a book on St. John's that centers on penetration and kick out. Murray St. did that as well. Taking time off their clock isn't going to be very important, if they're penetrating and kicking out to open shooters. There are very few teams in the country that can effectively cover the Baylor guards out top and then prevent them from penetrating.
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.

No disrepect meant. It was a good observation - I was really objectively questioning if our guards are slow. Getting beat off the dribble is sometimes a matter of footwork and not speed.

Sometimes coaches don't make the necessary adjustments in game that seem obvious to astute watchers. With NR, I always questioned his moves, since they often appeared dumb. It's funny, though, in his very last season I was chatting with a now very successful college coach I know, and he asked, "Do you think Roberts is getting better as a coach?" It was funny he asked, I said, because after a bunch of inept moves for years, it appeared to me that he was making the right moves. He said he asked because he thought also that NR was making better moves. So, yea, we all question coaches, but with a guy like Keady assisting Lavin, I really feel that these guys are far superior to my own limited knowledge.

Again, no disrespect. I know you enjoy breaking down a game and commenting on what work and what doesn't. HAve a Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for your measured reply.

Guards aren't slow but they can't keep a dribbler out of the paint for beans hence Pointer guarding the pg for HC last night. Nice adjustment that helped a lot.
 
What I also saw was Harrison, Pointer, and Greene, picking up Jackson and Walton well past the top of the key, in an obvious lose-lose situation. Our guards were far too slow, compared with the Baylor guards, to manage coverage that far from the basket. .

I haven't thought of our guards as "slow". Can anyone else weigh in on this assessment? I happen to like guards picking up their man high. It burns clock, and putting pressure on the ball successfully disrupts the other team from running their offense, and when done with enough intensity causes mistakes and turnovers. Of course, if you are consistently getting beat off the dribble, you have to figure out what is going wrong, and correct it - most likely in practice. We are a very deep team, and having fresh legs provide consistent defensive pressure shouldn't be a problem.

I'm pretty confident that Lavin, Keady & co. having a solid strategy in terms of applying pressure on the ball up high.

Beast...The quote "was compared to the Baylor guards". I did not think of our guards as slow either....but the Baylor guards were considerably faster. Pressure as a disruption is fine, unless you are being beat off the dribble with regularity. it is my opinion that once a speedy point guard gets inside the defense, only bad things can happen. This happened for Baylor far too frequently, and our defense was off balance most of the game. The help that was slow recovering also made it possible for Heslip to get open...often and inexcusably. How else would you explain his 29 points...our players couldn't stay with him? Teams are getting a book on St. John's that centers on penetration and kick out. Murray St. did that as well. Taking time off their clock isn't going to be very important, if they're penetrating and kicking out to open shooters. There are very few teams in the country that can effectively cover the Baylor guards out top and then prevent them from penetrating.
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.

Hey Beast..in general I don't think our guards are slow as Greene and Balamou are actually quick...Harrison, on the other hand, is not that quick...

I think our problems come as a result of lack of anticipation and moving feet (not sure if this is a focus issue)...During the HC game, Balamou epitomized what we want and need in defense...at one point his man attempted to dribble east-west, Balamou anticipated and moved his feet so quickly that his man had no where to go and committed an offensive foul...Lavin should make the team review this portion of the film over an over..

On a related note, I remember back in the day when you were able to watch practices, Carnesecca worked extensively on hedging and fighting thru picks (I am sure our current staff does as well)...just seems to be a lost art...
 
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.

I recalled you doing the same a couple of seasons ago, during the early stages, and it came back to bite you in the rear.

Please elaborate, MJ. Have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Haven't seen the stats for the Holy Cross game but just by the eye test...

We seemed to close out on open shooter better...Balamou in particular...very high energy...

When we had problems tonight, it seem to be dealing with their motion offense (cuts etc...)...reminded me of some of the early games last year...

I wish we would run some of these sets...Right now the offense is a bunch of dribbling at the top of key...and too many forced shots

Just got back from the game
When we run offensive sets, we get good shots
When we freelance, there is too much dribbling and 1 on 1 and we get low percentage shots
We are not playing good fundamental defense
Too much switching often leaves us in bad mismatches with small guys covering a big down low
Seems like we are more interested in blocking shots than playing sound fundamental defense
Sampson was great, Balamou is tremendously athletic
I saw Sanchez standing next to Gift before the game and looked several inches taller
Nice to see Coach Carnesecca, Mel Davis, Mel Utley, Mason Jr and Paris Horne at the game
In short, we have a young and very athletic team that needs time and experience to jell

To your list of attendees permit me to add Mike Repole and Jevon Thomas.
 
Pleased to see that you have confidence in the coaching staff. I would love to join you, except that a game like Baylor erodes that confidence for me. It's only an opinion. Allow me the courtesy of having my own, and I would be happy to respect yours.

I recalled you doing the same a couple of seasons ago, during the early stages, and it came back to bite you in the rear.

Please elaborate, MJ. Have no idea what you are talking about.

I recall you not feeling good or being high on the staff after some early season losses from a couple of seasons ago. You ended up retracting some things later in the season. The site has crashed since that particular time, so there isn't any way to view those old posts. I'm almost sure it was you.

Regardless, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'd just be careful about stating certain things at this point in the season. I guess we all have to eat crow at some point. Some usually do it more than others (I'm not referring to you, in particular). LOL
 
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