Defensive Doldrums

Like the ideas! I'm not in love with a zone.....just advocating for something that helps shut down driving lanes and penetration possibilities. The zone also encourages opponents to spread offensively to create ball movement. So far, they're all over us on the boards as you well know. That would help push them out a tad. Both SJU1512 and Beast of the East have great ideas that I support! Throwing multiple changing defenses to confuse an opponent is always an excellent idea. Can Mullin teach it? Who knows. Anyway, I think we're agreed that the passive and predictable status of our defense is currently poor at best. Clearly, a different approach is sorely needed. As previously said, the points we are giving up currently are ridiculous. So much so, that having a successful offensive game is meaningless.
Click to expand...

How about instead of pressuring guys 50 feet from the basket they only pick up at say the three point line or a little beyond. To me Lovett and Ponds aren't good enough yet one on one defensively to put on that type of pressure, they consistently get beat and the help defense just isn't there. The dribble penetration is breaking everything else down.
Click to expand...

If you are going to guard that far away from the basket no matter if you are a very good defender the offensive player assuming is is in his own right a very good player the advantage goes to the offensive player too much room and territory to adequately
cover a a good player for more tna a minute
 
Most of my observations for this game can be taken from the last game...except multiply that by five. Once again we gave up 83 points to a team that until now, has been tripping over their own feet. I personally turned off the game with ten minutes to go because I couldn't stand watching anymore. It's not about losing, or the margin for me. It's about the abject stupidity from both the players AND the coach.In addition to all the defensive issues discussed in my last post, I just can't resolve how Mullin's mind works. With the game still in question,how can you go for swaths of time with either Ponds or Lovett sitting on the bench? If they're tired, or in foul trouble...OK! But when we were
that age, we could play for hours and hours without getting tired. These kids are in tip top shape. Chris...please understand this! They are the only real quality players you have. They both score in spurts. you can't afford to sit either of them unless you have to!!!!!!!!  Alibegovic...are you kidding me? When he took a three from 5 feet beyond the line, I wanted to jump through the screen and strangle him to death. Is that OK with you Chris? Because it appears that you've been mysteriously green-lighting this guy for the past two years! Why? Muscini...still perhaps
the biggest defensive liability in the entire Big East. His threes don't compensate for his small and weak presence on the court. Yes, I know Ellison was in foul trouble, but you would have given Muscini the minutes anyway!  Ponds daydreams and guys are back-dooring him to death. What's that all about? He rebounds well for a guard, but be careful. Opposing teams are fast breaking the hell out of us, and we're doing a poor job of getting back. That begins with your guards. And where was that celebrated jump shot today? Ponds pretty much shot us out of the game. Always the chief liability in depending too much on one player. Ahmed, meanwhile, commits the stupidest fouls I've ever seen...Can we start by explaining to him that you can't simply push people out of the way with your off arm? He simply has no basketball IQ, nor concept of what defense is all about. He's pretty much flailing around with
everything he does on the court. He also must lead the Big East in bad shots taken. Yakwe...How is it possible that a starting forward-center on a Big East ball club could actually regress to this degree. I was excited about how much he might've improved this year. Instead he goes backward? Does anyone else see any liability from the coaching staff with that one?...go figure!  Lovett...you've been great at times this year. We can't win without you.
But circumstances are forcing him into trying to do too much. Other teams know that now. They will work extra hard to cut his penetration, pressure his three, and block or knock down his passes. Poor Marcus...the ineffectiveness of his own team-mates will curtail his own effectiveness. And the more he tries to do the impossible, the poorer he will look.Williams...what in heck happened? Was that four game stretch simply a tease from the basketball gods? One cannot underestimate the boost he gave us in that mini-streak. Please put Michael Jordan's sneakers back on before this year becomes an utter disaster! Ellison and Owens...you've guys obviously never saw a foul you didn't like. Teaching players to play defense without fouling is what coaches do. I guess that part of your learning experience
is MIA. All in all. It WAS one of the worst basketball games I've ever seen a St. John's team play. It's probably the first SJU game where you can reasonably say, that not a single St. John's player played well. And when you end the first half with a center, who has absolutely no range whatsoever, shooting a three from the deep corner, you've really got to scratch your head and ask yourself, "what's going on"? 
 
Doc-You covered a lot of territory. Like many of us, some of it is venting. Most of what you brought up is about a lack of high major talent. No coach can make some of these guys look good. You mention D. Williams lack of recent production after a few good games. Everyone, even Amar, has skills. You don't get a division 1 scholarship without them. So I'm not shocked when they have a good game here and there. The good ones, however, bring it every night. The lazier good ones bring it when they have to.

Most of our players are not high division 1 talent. They will have some moments here and there, but that's it. Many of our players have major holes in their games. That's what makes them more suited to a lesser conference. When you play with marginal talents, those holes are more apparent. If he was surrounded by 4 high major defenders, Mussini's flaws could be better concealed, and his minutes limited to appropriate moments and match ups. He does not have high major quickness, size or strength.

The Yakwe thing is more of a mystery to me. He has high major athleticism. Most athletes don't peak at 17. This makes no sense to me.

My major concern with this team is not the lack of skill, but the lack of will. It is easy to respect players who have limited skill, but big time will. Phil Missere comes to mind, and Billy Singleton. Maybe we will get there.
 
a wise SJU mind told me that the frosh could be hitting the freshmen wall. HS does not compare to college let alone the BE. Come BE play, you are playing high intensity games 2-3 times a week. Yes they are young, but it catches up with them. Not making any excuses here, because i agree with most of the posts here just stating a theory.
 
a wise SJU mind told me that the frosh could be hitting the freshmen wall. HS does not compare to college let alone the BE. Come BE play, you are playing high intensity games 2-3 times a week. Yes they are young, but it catches up with them. Not making any excuses here, because i agree with most of the posts here just stating a theory.
Click to expand...

There is the physical wall and the mental wall. A lot easier to overcome the physical wall if you are playing for something like a post season invite. It's up to the coaching staff to keep morale up. I'm sure Mullin and Richmond are doing their best by sharing their experiences of dealing with long seasons, and the need to keep grinding and working hard, and taking it one game at a time.
 
I thought the defensive effort was Ok in the first half. Not the defense itself, but the effort. By the 14:00 mark of the second half the effort disintegrated. Although that is never acceptable at this level and I am not giving them a pass I do see a logical explanation that I have not seen yet.

The Georgetown players towered over us. Every player had a four inch height advantage, and seemingly a 50 lb. (or more) weight advantage. And knowing that, their game plan was to bludgeon us down low. It's not like they rained threes on us. I see all these defensive theories but don't understand how we could stop them. They wore down a far inferior team physically. Forget the 0-4 record in the Big East and look how they matched up with us. It was a dream for them.
-
When my son was playing AAU there would be times when some 8th Grade team would get tossed into a pool of 17 year olds just to get an even number, and you would have to endure watching men play against boys. That is what I was reminded of watching the Georgetown game.

Sure these guys need to play better fundamentally, but a lot of the problem with the defense is not coachable or fixable with this roster. Asking Tarig Owens to take a charge form just about anyone is sadistic. The same for Mussini, and even Ponds. Hayes from Georgetown could probably bench press all three of those guys simultaneously. Add to that the fact that Mussini and Freuedenberg move like I do (and I have a fused ankle) and this is much more a Jimmy/Joe issue than an X/O issue.

After getting the hell beat out of them they finally said "No Mas." Not good at all, but there was more to that than just the score. They are also enduring a physical beating. Not so easy. The only fix for that is time, and consistent appropriate recruiting.
 
Most of my observations for this game can be taken from the last game...except multiply that by five. Once again we gave up 83 points to a team that until now, has been tripping over their own feet. I personally turned off the game with ten minutes to go because I couldn't stand watching anymore. It's not about losing, or the margin for me. It's about the abject stupidity from both the players AND the coach.In addition to all the defensive issues discussed in my last post, I just can't resolve how Mullin's mind works. With the game still in question,how can you go for swaths of time with either Ponds or Lovett sitting on the bench? If they're tired, or in foul trouble...OK! But when we were
that age, we could play for hours and hours without getting tired. These kids are in tip top shape. Chris...please understand this! They are the only real quality players you have. They both score in spurts. you can't afford to sit either of them unless you have to!!!!!!!!  Alibegovic...are you kidding me? When he took a three from 5 feet beyond the line, I wanted to jump through the screen and strangle him to death. Is that OK with you Chris? Because it appears that you've been mysteriously green-lighting this guy for the past two years! Why? Muscini...still perhaps
the biggest defensive liability in the entire Big East. His threes don't compensate for his small and weak presence on the court. Yes, I know Ellison was in foul trouble, but you would have given Muscini the minutes anyway!  Ponds daydreams and guys are back-dooring him to death. What's that all about? He rebounds well for a guard, but be careful. Opposing teams are fast breaking the hell out of us, and we're doing a poor job of getting back. That begins with your guards. And where was that celebrated jump shot today? Ponds pretty much shot us out of the game. Always the chief liability in depending too much on one player. Ahmed, meanwhile, commits the stupidest fouls I've ever seen...Can we start by explaining to him that you can't simply push people out of the way with your off arm? He simply has no basketball IQ, nor concept of what defense is all about. He's pretty much flailing around with
everything he does on the court. He also must lead the Big East in bad shots taken. Yakwe...How is it possible that a starting forward-center on a Big East ball club could actually regress to this degree. I was excited about how much he might've improved this year. Instead he goes backward? Does anyone else see any liability from the coaching staff with that one?...go figure!  Lovett...you've been great at times this year. We can't win without you.
But circumstances are forcing him into trying to do too much. Other teams know that now. They will work extra hard to cut his penetration, pressure his three, and block or knock down his passes. Poor Marcus...the ineffectiveness of his own team-mates will curtail his own effectiveness. And the more he tries to do the impossible, the poorer he will look.Williams...what in heck happened? Was that four game stretch simply a tease from the basketball gods? One cannot underestimate the boost he gave us in that mini-streak. Please put Michael Jordan's sneakers back on before this year becomes an utter disaster! Ellison and Owens...you've guys obviously never saw a foul you didn't like. Teaching players to play defense without fouling is what coaches do. I guess that part of your learning experience
is MIA. All in all. It WAS one of the worst basketball games I've ever seen a St. John's team play. It's probably the first SJU game where you can reasonably say, that not a single St. John's player played well. And when you end the first half with a center, who has absolutely no range whatsoever, shooting a three from the deep corner, you've really got to scratch your head and ask yourself, "what's going on"? 
Click to expand...

Agree with all of this, but especially the point about not sitting either Lovett or Ponds unless absolutely neccesary. Should only happen if :(a) one of them is physically winded (which as you point out is highly unlikely) (b) one of them is foul trouble (which almost never happens) or (c) we're up by 25 points. Even then I'd think twice.
 
Regarding not sitting Lovett or Ponds, my guess is Mullin, based on the rotations, understands that wins will be few and far between anyway. By playing nearly everyone, he can see who can step up for next year, give them a foundation to build on, and show that recruits are given a chance to earn playing time. I don't disagree with this strategy. He can play Lovett and Ponds every minute, and the team is still not going anywhere. Things will change when each game means either a post season bid or a higher seed when selected.
 
Regarding not sitting Lovett or Ponds, my guess is Mullin, based on the rotations, understands that wins will be few and far between anyway. By playing nearly everyone, he can see who can step up for next year, give them a foundation to build on, and show that recruits are given a chance to earn playing time. I don't disagree with this strategy. He can play Lovett and Ponds every minute, and the team is still not going anywhere. Things will change when each game means either a post season bid or a higher seed when selected.
Click to expand...

That strategy assumes we can't win with the current roster. I disagree.
 
If you remember, many here complained that Lavin played Harrison far too many minutes and that fatigue was at least partially causative for some of his injuries. Harrison was a lot sturdier than either Ponds or Lovett, and I'd also prefer high motor guys to get periodic breathers that allow them to play at the level they are capable of for 30 minutes or so per game.
 
Regarding not sitting Lovett or Ponds, my guess is Mullin, based on the rotations, understands that wins will be few and far between anyway. By playing nearly everyone, he can see who can step up for next year, give them a foundation to build on, and show that recruits are given a chance to earn playing time. I don't disagree with this strategy. He can play Lovett and Ponds every minute, and the team is still not going anywhere. Things will change when each game means either a post season bid or a higher seed when selected.
Click to expand...

That strategy assumes we can't win with the current roster. I disagree.
Click to expand...

So far, that's what our record, and the margin of defeat, indicates.
 
Regarding not sitting Lovett or Ponds, my guess is Mullin, based on the rotations, understands that wins will be few and far between anyway. By playing nearly everyone, he can see who can step up for next year, give them a foundation to build on, and show that recruits are given a chance to earn playing time. I don't disagree with this strategy. He can play Lovett and Ponds every minute, and the team is still not going anywhere. Things will change when each game means either a post season bid or a higher seed when selected.
Click to expand...

That strategy assumes we can't win with the current roster. I disagree.
Click to expand...

So far, that's what our record, and the margin of defeat, indicates.
Click to expand...

But was that margin of defeat partly caused by highly questionable substitutions for Ponds and Lovett---eg, the infamous Euro Trio lineup when we had the lead and momentum against Xavier? I think it played a role. There's also a danger that the strategy of throwing in your weakest players when the game is still in contention sends a message to high-level recruits that you could be sitting on the bench while far inferior players get your time.
 
Regarding not sitting Lovett or Ponds, my guess is Mullin, based on the rotations, understands that wins will be few and far between anyway. By playing nearly everyone, he can see who can step up for next year, give them a foundation to build on, and show that recruits are given a chance to earn playing time. I don't disagree with this strategy. He can play Lovett and Ponds every minute, and the team is still not going anywhere. Things will change when each game means either a post season bid or a higher seed when selected.
Click to expand...

That strategy assumes we can't win with the current roster. I disagree.
Click to expand...

So far, that's what our record, and the margin of defeat, indicates.
Click to expand...

But was that margin of defeat partly caused by highly questionable substitutions for Ponds and Lovett---eg, the infamous Euro Trio lineup when we had the lead and momentum against Xavier? I think it played a role. There's also a danger that the strategy of throwing in your weakest players when the game is still in contention sends a message to high-level recruits that you could be sitting on the bench while far inferior players get your time.
Click to expand...

Going by memory, Ponds and Lovett are getting plenty of minutes for freshman. They are our 2 best players on offense, but they make mistakes, too. Sometime you have to sit them for teaching moments.
 
Do people really think this team is going from 1-17 to beating Xavier and the other top BE programs on their home courts the next season?

This is a rebuild. The bigger risk is the young talent being forced to play too many minutes too soon.

We'll see better play on both ends of the floor in year three and beyond as more pieces are added.
 
Do people really think this team is going from 1-17 to beating Xavier and the other top BE programs on their home courts the next season?

This is a rebuild. The bigger risk is the young talent being forced to play too many minutes too soon.

We'll see better play on both ends of the floor in year three and beyond as more pieces are added.
Click to expand...

Could be wrong but likely because of their size both ponds and lovett will be 4 year players, giving CM time to build a formidavble squad. That's two very good building blocks
 
Do people really think this team is going from 1-17 to beating Xavier and the other top BE programs on their home courts the next season?

This is a rebuild. The bigger risk is the young talent being forced to play too many minutes too soon.

We'll see better play on both ends of the floor in year three and beyond as more pieces are added.
Click to expand...

Could be wrong but likely because of their size both ponds and lovett will be 4 year players, giving CM time to build a formidavble squad. That's two very good building blocks
Click to expand...

Hope so. ;)
 
Do people really think this team is going from 1-17 to beating Xavier and the other top BE programs on their home courts the next season?

This is a rebuild. The bigger risk is the young talent being forced to play too many minutes too soon.

We'll see better play on both ends of the floor in year three and beyond as more pieces are added.
Click to expand...

Could be wrong but likely because of their size both ponds and lovett will be 4 year players, giving CM time to build a formidavble squad. That's two very good building blocks
Click to expand...

Some web checking showed that Omar Cook and Erick Barkley were listed at the same height and weight as Ponds, with Lovett not far off. It didn't stop either from leaving early.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top