Declining the Big East: Case Study of College of the Holy Cross

[quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382444][quote="Las Vegan" post=382439][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382400]As Sal has stated, I have a niece enrolled at Villanova (Nursing)

Her older sister is a Chemistry major at Holy Cross

They both feel they chose the right school for them

Both provide a great educational experience.[/quote]

Noticed your niece is a nursing major at Villanova. Does anyone know why SJU has never had a school of nursing? It would seem to fit the school's mission agenda, and be a source of enrolling more academically competitive students.[/quote][/quote]

I was on the staff of the College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Professions a long time ago. At the time, the PA program was brand new, and I'm not certain if they had a Med Tech program before Adelphi dropped that major. I'm pretty sure St. John's picked their spots and there are plenty of schools to offer nursing programs. Right now there is a strong demand in the NY area, and I'm not sure what the projections are, but likely the outlook is pretty good right now for nurses. I have a niece who just graduated from Molloy's nursing program and the starting salary is 85K. Nursing salaries vary greatly by region, and I know in Syracuse the starting salary is about 60K for example - not bad considering the cost of housing, etc.
 
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=382406]The problem with SJU's mission isn't a focus on helping the poor, it is that the school distorts that mission by admitting too many mediocre or worse students, regardless of income level. Focusing on helping the poor should not mean that poor students who are admitted should not also be above average students. The size of the student body is too large and the academic standards too weak for the University to have a top academic reputation.[/quote]

A smaller percentage of poor students have higher grades than middle class and above populations. Our mission is not to be a top ranked university academically by only admitting top students. However, you should take a closer look at available data. At the top end, I believe we are admitting more highly qualified students than at any time over the past 25 years. For example, the pharmacy school average SAT of INCOMING students (not ACCEPTED students) is in the mid 1400s, which compares to favorably to every top flight Catholic school in the country and to almost every every school. Chaminade and St. Anthony's now send between 20 and 30 top students who attain significant scholarships through initiatives put into play by Dr. Gempeshaw for all graduates of Catholic high schools. We now draw students nationally, not just from the NYC area. It's really great to see.

We ARE admitting top flight students and some programs are extremely challenging and in demand. The Federal Government comes to job fairs to high students from our School of Professional studies, especially who concentrate coursework on homeland security.

The successes at the upper end of the university go on and on. I suspect many of those complain the most about our academic standards don't read our alumni journals. Contact the school. I am certain they could use your input and support.

One thing I am thrilled with is watching a group of very diverse students in a social group of all races, clearly friends, at our games. These kids are break social barriers that exist at many schools where birds of a feather stick together. Personally I think that's awesome.

However, keep in mind that one of our most successful and well known alumni (especially here) by his own admission, barely was admitted to St. John's as it was, and barely graduated.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=382492][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=382491][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382418]My niece, who goes to Holy Cross, just proudly pointed out to me that Dr. Fauci is a Holy Cross grad.

He also went to Regis High School.[/quote]. Obviously Dr Fauci , from Brooklyn , is a very bright guy and when he talks about the Virus , everyone should listen intently . Hard to believe he’s 79 years old . Wonder if he went to Regis HS at same time as Regis Philbin ? Think RP might be a bit older . It’s interesting to me that 2 Jesuit Schools , G’Town and BC opted to join the BE , yet really haven’t harmed their Academics or Rankings . Holy Cross is about the same size as Providence in terms of students . I think HC felt it’s mission was strictly to the undergrad Liberal Arts curriculum and not to Law School or other Grad schools . After reading the thesis of the Elon student , it seems the President and AD at the time at HC didn’t want to deter from their stated Mission and felt they might have to lessen Admission requirements to admit BE level BB players . While G’Town and BC didn’t feel the same way . Since 1979 Holy Cross has drifted to several other Conferences , more suited to their size and Academic standards . One could say , Holy Cross Athletics , has been a Mediocre one over that time period . They didwhat they felt was best for their school . And , no question it’s a great school .[/quote]

Regis Philbin went to Cardinal Hayes HS[/quote]

So did President Rutherford Hayes.

As did the St. Louis Cardinals
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=382496][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382444][quote="Las Vegan" post=382439][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382400]As Sal has stated, I have a niece enrolled at Villanova (Nursing)

Her older sister is a Chemistry major at Holy Cross

They both feel they chose the right school for them

Both provide a great educational experience.[/quote]

Noticed your niece is a nursing major at Villanova. Does anyone know why SJU has never had a school of nursing? It would seem to fit the school's mission agenda, and be a source of enrolling more academically competitive students.[/quote][/quote]

I was on the staff of the College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Professions a long time ago. At the time, the PA program was brand new, and I'm not certain if they had a Med Tech program before Adelphi dropped that major. I'm pretty sure St. John's picked their spots and there are plenty of schools to offer nursing programs. Right now there is a strong demand in the NY area, and I'm not sure what the projections are, but likely the outlook is pretty good right now for nurses. I have a niece who just graduated from Molloy's nursing program and the starting salary is 85K. Nursing salaries vary greatly by region, and I know in Syracuse the starting salary is about 60K for example - not bad considering the cost of housing, etc.[/quote]

Beastie,
One of the things I noticed during 25 plus years of Director of Education and Training service for NYS OMH hospitals was that the constant shortage, not subject to manipulation by importing foreign graduates, was of occupational therapists. My recommendation to paraprofessionals, typically with some college or Associate Degrees was to check out OT, both for hear and now opportunities and for down the road when an OT is often seen as the best resource for keeping aging boomers out of very expensive institutional care.

I also think that we are not using our discharged medics and corpsmen as well as we should and that STJ could be part of a major initiative to up-credential direct intervention medical personnel for continued civilian service. If you can do it under fire in Iraq, you might be able to handle the Bronx.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=382500][quote="Beast of the East" post=382496][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382444][quote="Las Vegan" post=382439][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382400]As Sal has stated, I have a niece enrolled at Villanova (Nursing)

Her older sister is a Chemistry major at Holy Cross

They both feel they chose the right school for them

Both provide a great educational experience.[/quote]

Noticed your niece is a nursing major at Villanova. Does anyone know why SJU has never had a school of nursing? It would seem to fit the school's mission agenda, and be a source of enrolling more academically competitive students.[/quote][/quote]

I was on the staff of the College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Professions a long time ago. At the time, the PA program was brand new, and I'm not certain if they had a Med Tech program before Adelphi dropped that major. I'm pretty sure St. John's picked their spots and there are plenty of schools to offer nursing programs. Right now there is a strong demand in the NY area, and I'm not sure what the projections are, but likely the outlook is pretty good right now for nurses. I have a niece who just graduated from Molloy's nursing program and the starting salary is 85K. Nursing salaries vary greatly by region, and I know in Syracuse the starting salary is about 60K for example - not bad considering the cost of housing, etc.[/quote]

Beastie,
One of the things I noticed during 25 plus years of Director of Education and Training service for NYS OMH hospitals was that the constant shortage, not subject to manipulation by importing foreign graduates, was of occupational therapists. My recommendation to paraprofessionals, typically with some college or Associate Degrees was to check out OT, both for hear and now opportunities and for down the road when an OT is often seen as the best resource for keeping aging boomers out of very expensive institutional care.

I also think that we are not using our discharged medics and corpsmen as well as we should and that STJ could be part of a major initiative to up-credential direct intervention medical personnel for continued civilian service. If you can do it under fire in Iraq, you might be able to handle the Bronx.[/quote]

There are a ton of new PT and OT programs based on demand, and they are all highly competitive to get into.

I agree with you in terms of programs that could perhaps give life credit to trained servicemen in clinical areas. It's a good idea.
 
daughter got an academic scholarship offer from Nova, wait listed for HC.

She applied in 2007 graduated 2011; partial scholly Nova and no money from HC; hey, both are great schools, HC not as big; undergrad only (no grad programs), smaller enrollment like the mini Ivies, Williams, Bates, Colby Grinnell, etc. Right school for her. Most of her classmates did post grad work, at prestigious grad programs, HC alum have very high % of M.Ds., and lawyers.

BUT having said all that, my wife and I are very proud of our SJU degrees, undergrad and grad, let's face it school is as much as you put into it as it is the institution. SJU has some very distinguished Alumni Academically. A lot of us had no guidance as first generation college enrollees, and couldn't afford expensive "away" schools.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=382499][quote="Paultzman" post=382492][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=382491][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382418]My niece, who goes to Holy Cross, just proudly pointed out to me that Dr. Fauci is a Holy Cross grad.

He also went to Regis High School.[/quote]. Obviously Dr Fauci , from Brooklyn , is a very bright guy and when he talks about the Virus , everyone should listen intently . Hard to believe he’s 79 years old . Wonder if he went to Regis HS at same time as Regis Philbin ? Think RP might be a bit older . It’s interesting to me that 2 Jesuit Schools , G’Town and BC opted to join the BE , yet really haven’t harmed their Academics or Rankings . Holy Cross is about the same size as Providence in terms of students . I think HC felt it’s mission was strictly to the undergrad Liberal Arts curriculum and not to Law School or other Grad schools . After reading the thesis of the Elon student , it seems the President and AD at the time at HC didn’t want to deter from their stated Mission and felt they might have to lessen Admission requirements to admit BE level BB players . While G’Town and BC didn’t feel the same way . Since 1979 Holy Cross has drifted to several other Conferences , more suited to their size and Academic standards . One could say , Holy Cross Athletics , has been a Mediocre one over that time period . They didwhat they felt was best for their school . And , no question it’s a great school .[/quote]

Regis Philbin went to Cardinal Hayes HS[/quote]

So did President Rutherford Hayes.

As did the St. Louis Cardinals[/quote]. My error . He did go to Notre Dame though . He should have gone to Regis since he shared the same name . You know Regis from Regis HS . He is a big time ND supporter across the Board and think one of his Daughter’s went there as well . ND gets tremendous $$$ from Alumni .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=382635][quote="Beast of the East" post=382499][quote="Paultzman" post=382492][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=382491][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=382418]My niece, who goes to Holy Cross, just proudly pointed out to me that Dr. Fauci is a Holy Cross grad.

He also went to Regis High School.[/quote]. Obviously Dr Fauci , from Brooklyn , is a very bright guy and when he talks about the Virus , everyone should listen intently . Hard to believe he’s 79 years old . Wonder if he went to Regis HS at same time as Regis Philbin ? Think RP might be a bit older . It’s interesting to me that 2 Jesuit Schools , G’Town and BC opted to join the BE , yet really haven’t harmed their Academics or Rankings . Holy Cross is about the same size as Providence in terms of students . I think HC felt it’s mission was strictly to the undergrad Liberal Arts curriculum and not to Law School or other Grad schools . After reading the thesis of the Elon student , it seems the President and AD at the time at HC didn’t want to deter from their stated Mission and felt they might have to lessen Admission requirements to admit BE level BB players . While G’Town and BC didn’t feel the same way . Since 1979 Holy Cross has drifted to several other Conferences , more suited to their size and Academic standards . One could say , Holy Cross Athletics , has been a Mediocre one over that time period . They didwhat they felt was best for their school . And , no question it’s a great school .[/quote]

Regis Philbin went to Cardinal Hayes HS[/quote]

So did President Rutherford Hayes.

As did the St. Louis Cardinals[/quote]. My error . He did go to Notre Dame though . He should have gone to Regis since he shared the same name . You know Regis from Regis HS . He is a big time ND supporter across the Board and think one of his Daughter’s went there as well . ND gets tremendous $$$ from Alumni .[/quote]

Currently Villanova is raising $100 million per year from donations. Amazing what a couple of NCAA championships will do when you have a generous and prosperous alumni base.

JSJ can tell you if Regis supports Cardinal Hayes - he is very dedicated to that school as well as SJU.
 
[quote="BrookJersey Redmen" post=382832]Anthony Fauci M.D. of the CDC, shining star of this whole mess a proud Holy Cross alum, one of their many M.D. alums.[/quote]
Regis HS
 
[quote="BrookJersey Redmen" post=382832]Anthony Fauci M.D. of the CDC, shining star of this whole mess a proud Holy Cross alum, one of their many M.D. alums.[/quote]
_________

Yep, but he attended The College of Holy Cross before their declined of BE membership. Being an avid sports fan would the lower level athletics at HC now influence theDr. Fauci's decision if he made it today ?
 
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Just relaying a conversation I had with two Holy Cross Crusader alums, who had come to Vegas for March Madness viewing and wagering. The subject of Big East came up and their understanding of HC's decision not to join the new conference. Said their were two reasons: the admins didn't want to be associated that closely with SJU, SH, and Providence, on academic grounds . The second reason was an alum, and major donor, Edward Bennett Williams, wanted the emphasis to be on football. They strongly disagreed with the decision. I empathized with them.
 
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[quote="Las Vegan" post=382841]Just relaying a conversation I had with two Holy Cross Crusader alums, who had come to Vegas for March Madness viewing and wagering. The subject of Big East came up and their understanding of HC's decision not to join the new conference. Said their were two reasons: the admins didn't want to be associated that closely with SJU, SH, and Providence, on academic grounds . The second reason was an alum, and major donor, Edward Bennett Williams, wanted the emphasis to be on football. They strongly disagreed with the decision. I empathized with them.[/quote]

Its worked pretty well for Georgetown and Villanova and it didn't stop Notre Dame or BC, all better schools. NO WAY Holy Cross would have fit into what the Big East became. I wonder what their basketball team draws? Hundreds?

That's total crap from alums who are elitist. Jesuit hierarchy is tight, and why wouldn't they join a conference on academic grounds when 2 better Jesuit schools already jumped in?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=382847][quote="Las Vegan" post=382841]Just relaying a conversation I had with two Holy Cross Crusader alums, who had come to Vegas for March Madness viewing and wagering. The subject of Big East came up and their understanding of HC's decision not to join the new conference. Said their were two reasons: the admins didn't want to be associated that closely with SJU, SH, and Providence, on academic grounds . The second reason was an alum, and major donor, Edward Bennett Williams, wanted the emphasis to be on football. They strongly disagreed with the decision. I empathized with them.[/quote]

Its worked pretty well for Georgetown and Villanova and it didn't stop Notre Dame or BC, all better schools. NO WAY Holy Cross would have fit into what the Big East became. I wonder what their basketball team draws? Hundreds?

That's total crap from alums who are elitist. Jesuit hierarchy is tight, and why wouldn't they join a conference on academic grounds when 2 better Jesuit schools already jumped in?[/quote]

They had a very competitive basketball program in the late seventies, and regularly recruited the CHSAA. Played half their home games in the local municipal arena, 14,000 seat Centrum, and usually played a game at MSG, as part of a doubleheader. I watched them beat Cincinnati, before Iona beat South Carolina, in the waning coaching career of Frank McGuire.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=382848][quote="Beast of the East" post=382847][quote="Las Vegan" post=382841]Just relaying a conversation I had with two Holy Cross Crusader alums, who had come to Vegas for March Madness viewing and wagering. The subject of Big East came up and their understanding of HC's decision not to join the new conference. Said their were two reasons: the admins didn't want to be associated that closely with SJU, SH, and Providence, on academic grounds . The second reason was an alum, and major donor, Edward Bennett Williams, wanted the emphasis to be on football. They strongly disagreed with the decision. I empathized with them.[/quote]

Its worked pretty well for Georgetown and Villanova and it didn't stop Notre Dame or BC, all better schools. NO WAY Holy Cross would have fit into what the Big East became. I wonder what their basketball team draws? Hundreds?

That's total crap from alums who are elitist. Jesuit hierarchy is tight, and why wouldn't they join a conference on academic grounds when 2 better Jesuit schools already jumped in?[/quote]

They had a very competitive basketball program in the late seventies, and regularly recruited the CHSAA. Played half their home games in the local municipal arena, 14,000 seat Centrum, and usually played a game at MSG, as part of a doubleheader. I watched them beat Cincinnati, before Iona beat South Carolina, in the waning coaching career of Frank McGuire.[/quote]

The last time they finished a season ranked was 60 years ago. They did make the tournament as a 16th seed in 2016 and won their play in game (which is better than we did in 2019). They were a 13 seed in 2006, not bad for a mid major team in the Patriot conference. From 2001-2007 they made the tournament 4 times, where they lost all 4, but played 4 competitive games.
 
[quote="BrookJersey Redmen" post=383052]We can agree to disagree, Beast, about the above comments.[/quote]

No worries. My son had a great face to face interview with HC. Unlike some, which profess what a great school HC is, the interviewer thanked him and said "..., we'd be lucky to have have you." I don't mean this as an accolade for my son, but as a testimony to how gracious the interviewer was.

It's a rock solid academic school but for obvious reason doesn't check enough boxes when compared to other very good academic Catholic schools. As JSJ stated, at about 3000 kids and high academics, it's the right school for some kids. Glad your child had a great experience there. Jesuits are great teachers.

Your best comparison is to the NESCAC - all great academic schools that are smaller in enrollment. They like to refer to themselves as the little Ivy's, and it's hard to find any fault with Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Tufts, etc. I'd agree with HC being in that group wholeheartedly.
 
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Dr. Fauci brings sanity to this crisis thank God for him.

Fauci being from Regis to HC is not surprising, there is a "pipeline" from Regis to HC, probably because the Jesuits consider HC their "hidden gem", heard that from multiple sources; they consider Georgetown practically a non-Catholic school.

My friend's two sons both of them went to Regis (as did he (not me I couldn't get in there)), one went to HC, other went to UVA (his mom's school) then transferred into HC his junior year. Both on the baseball team.
 
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