Cragg and the SJU “Culture”

[quote="otis" post=336984][quote="Mike Zaun" post=336981] .......my question is, will our administration allow Cragg to actually USE his expertise or simply defer to the program's favorite son over and over?[/quote]
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1. The terms of Coach Mullin’s preexisting contract supersedes the authority provided to Mr. Cragg.

2. Get Mr. Cragg $5M to deal with Mullin’s existing contract and he may be able to be more creative.[/quote]

Goff was a hail mary hire after all 5 AD candidates removed themselves from consideration. He had no major college experience as an AD, and it was decided that Mullin would not report to him. I think that at least pre-Cragg, he reported to Joe Oliva, but that may very well been changed with Cragg's arrival. I'm not sure if the org chart reporting was contractual or not.

For that matter, LAvin did not report to Chris Monasch. I think that was Oliva also.
 
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All good points Beast.

Agree experience as a coach much more important than a network, but think network also important and perhaps more than that, helpful . With assistant turnover for HC and other opportunities, having developed a bench you can call on when you have an opening/opportunity of your own is key. I hesitate to use Duke as an example for anything because they are an outlier more than an example, but K has a deep bench of assistants both employed by him and not that he grooms over years. Setting him aside, someone like Buzz Williams, in addition to his staff at VT, has a wide and immediate net to cast for TAM that he's built over years working in the college ranks. College coaching is a fraternity, and through no fault of his own and despite his broader profile in the game I don't necessarily know that Mullin is a part of it given that he spent almost 30 years in the NBA prior to SJU. I don't think this is remotely dispositive in terms of not being able to succeed as a coach at this level, but I doubt it helps.

GSJ seems like a great kid, may even become a great coach, and I hope he does. If he had been hired as a grad assistant or director of player development or video coordinator any of that might have been commensurate with his experience. But generally 24 year old kids with minimal experience and no immediate connection to D1 don't get hired in a major conference to occupy one of 3 valuable recruiting slots on a staff. And I think perhaps more telling is that it doesn't take 6 weeks to fill one of the three assistant spots, let alone 6 months. At a minimum, taking that long to hire, and ultimately hiring someone recently out of college, is odd. The hiring practices haven't gotten any less odd since.

No point on Rice specifically, was just noting that he seemed a "warm" candidate at some point, true or not. The point I was trying to make was that, outside of those mentions, it seems we've barely had anyone associated with joining an inexperienced staff that appeared to be operating shorthanded. As you noted, perhaps that was a result of financial restrictions and not Mullin's choice, certainly plausible.
 
I think pretty much all programs that have taken off in recent years have had coaches that are great salesmen. As some of us recall, Jarvis' main disdain about coaching college was dealing with handlers when recruiting kids. It was (reasonably) disgusting to him, and he had low tolerance for dealing with hangers on, street guys looking to cash in somehow and asking what's in it for them. Dirty coaches pay these guys to speak at summer camps, give them or family members university jobs, or even hire them as assistants for 5 star players.

I can't see Mullin telling a kid much more than he will have an opportunity to prove himself at SJU and if he does he will play in the best arena in the world. I think other coaches romance kids, and paint pictures of grandeur. Kids want to know the shortest path to the NBA, and Mullin can (and does) take one look at kids and pretty much knows the kid is or isn't an NBA prospect at this point. In short Mullin won't tell a kid what he wants to hear, while there are a load of guy who sell snake oil.

Integrity is about as flashy in selling as a pair of wingtip shoes. Yea it's nice, and will pay healthy dividends, but it's not why kids choose schools. It's all the more reason for having 2 solid recruiters on staff beating the doors down, and Mullin developing relationships with area HS coaches, who honestly would rather become friends with a Chris Mullin than a Chris Mack. On that note, Jay Wright has made a ton of legitimate friends who coach at NYC area HS's and beyond. Chris needs to do more of that for certain.
 
I think pretty much all programs that have taken off in recent years have had coaches that are great salesmen. As some of us recall, Jarvis' main disdain about coaching college was dealing with handlers when recruiting kids. It was (reasonably) disgusting to him, and he had low tolerance for dealing with hangers on, street guys looking to cash in somehow and asking what's in it for them. Dirty coaches pay these guys to speak at summer camps, give them or family members university jobs, or even hire them as assistants for 5 star players.

I can't see Mullin telling a kid much more than he will have an opportunity to prove himself at SJU and if he does he will play in the best arena in the world. I think other coaches romance kids, and paint pictures of grandeur. Kids want to know the shortest path to the NBA, and Mullin can (and does) take one look at kids and pretty much knows the kid is or isn't an NBA prospect at this point. In short Mullin won't tell a kid what he wants to hear, while there are a load of guy who sell snake oil.

Integrity is about as flashy in selling as a pair of wingtip shoes. Yea it's nice, and will pay healthy dividends, but it's not why kids choose schools. It's all the more reason for having 2 solid recruiters on staff beating the doors down, and Mullin developing relationships with area HS coaches, who honestly would rather become friends with a Chris Mullin than a Chris Mack. On that note, Jay Wright has made a ton of legitimate friends who coach at NYC area HS's and beyond. Chris needs to do more of that for certain.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=337027]I think pretty much all programs that have taken off in recent years have had coaches that are great salesmen. As some of us recall, Jarvis' main disdain about coaching college was dealing with handlers when recruiting kids. It was (reasonably) disgusting to him, and he had low tolerance for dealing with hangers on, street guys looking to cash in somehow and asking what's in it for them. Dirty coaches pay these guys to speak at summer camps, give them or family members university jobs, or even hire them as assistants for 5 star players.

I can't see Mullin telling a kid much more than he will have an opportunity to prove himself at SJU and if he does he will play in the best arena in the world. I think other coaches romance kids, and paint pictures of grandeur. Kids want to know the shortest path to the NBA, and Mullin can (and does) take one look at kids and pretty much knows the kid is or isn't an NBA prospect at this point. In short Mullin won't tell a kid what he wants to hear, while there are a load of guy who sell snake oil.

Integrity is about as flashy in selling as a pair of wingtip shoes. Yea it's nice, and will pay healthy dividends, but it's not why kids choose schools. It's all the more reason for having 2 solid recruiters on staff beating the doors down, and Mullin developing relationships with area HS coaches, who honestly would rather become friends with a Chris Mullin than a Chris Mack. On that note, Jay Wright has made a ton of legitimate friends who coach at NYC area HS's and beyond. Chris needs to do more of that for certain.[/quote]

In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.
 
[quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=336939]We haven't had a competent coach at St John's since Fran Fraschilla
Since then, it's been one disaster after another[/quote]

And reports of Fran's behavior both with us and NM suggest the stress was eating at him. He seems much happier as a maven in the broadcast booth.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=337046][quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.[/quote]

Shame on those that convinced him to get into a business that never interested him. Those same people used a 90 year old coach to smooth the hire. Those same people don't give Mullin the time of day any more. Shame on a university President over his head in major college athletics where he had less experience than Mullin. Shame on Oliva for the Slice contract. From reading the various sports boards now 4 years later our basketball legend has become isolated from the fan base that loved him and who now equate him with a couple of the worst hires in SJU history.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=337118][quote="L J S A" post=337046][quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.[/quote]

Shame on those that convinced him to get into a business that never interested him. Those same people used a 90 year old coach to smooth the hire. Those same people don't give Mullin the time of day any more. Shame on a university President over his head in major college athletics where he had less experience than Mullin. Shame on Oliva for the Slice contract. From reading the various sports boards now 4 years later our basketball legend has become isolated from the fan base that loved him and who now equate him with a couple of the worst hires in SJU history.[/quote]

There is absolutely no reason in the world why the fan base that loved him before, shouldn’t continue to love him. I know that I still do.
 
[quote="Monte" post=337121][quote="Class of 72" post=337118][quote="L J S A" post=337046][quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.[/quote]

Shame on those that convinced him to get into a business that never interested him. Those same people used a 90 year old coach to smooth the hire. Those same people don't give Mullin the time of day any more. Shame on a university President over his head in major college athletics where he had less experience than Mullin. Shame on Oliva for the Slice contract. From reading the various sports boards now 4 years later our basketball legend has become isolated from the fan base that loved him and who now equate him with a couple of the worst hires in SJU history.[/quote]

There is absolutely no reason in the world why the fan base that loved him before, shouldn’t continue to love him. I know that I still do.[/quote]

I loved the way he played and the memories I have of that era. I never met him so I have no connection to him on a personal level. Whenever he leaves I will say........Best St. John's player ever, but coaching just wasn't his thing.
 
[quote="Monte" post=337121][quote="Class of 72" post=337118][quote="L J S A" post=337046][quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.[/quote]

Shame on those that convinced him to get into a business that never interested him. Those same people used a 90 year old coach to smooth the hire. Those same people don't give Mullin the time of day any more. Shame on a university President over his head in major college athletics where he had less experience than Mullin. Shame on Oliva for the Slice contract. From reading the various sports boards now 4 years later our basketball legend has become isolated from the fan base that loved him and who now equate him with a couple of the worst hires in SJU history.[/quote]

There is absolutely no reason in the world why the fan base that loved him before, shouldn’t continue to love him. I know that I still do.[/quote]

100% agree, Monte. His lack of success as a coach in no way diminishes his tremendous success as a player. When it comes to SJU basketball, he will always be the GOAT as a player.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=337118][quote="L J S A" post=337046][quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.[/quote]

Shame on those that convinced him to get into a business that never interested him. Those same people used a 90 year old coach to smooth the hire. Those same people don't give Mullin the time of day any more. Shame on a university President over his head in major college athletics where he had less experience than Mullin. Shame on Oliva for the Slice contract. From reading the various sports boards now 4 years later our basketball legend has become isolated from the fan base that loved him and who now equate him with a couple of the worst hires in SJU history.[/quote]

I do not think it was a "business that never interested him". I think he loves his players and loves to be so close to the game again, I just agree with LJSA that I do not think he was ever interested in breaking his back to butter kids up to come here.

In theory, getting Slice and Matt A to recruit was a good plan for him. Both of them recruiting for him for a couple of years could have proved to be successful. Slice getting HS recruits, Matt A focusing on grad transfers and sit out guys and JUCOs. It could have worked. But the Slice fallout hurt Mullin's chances of being successful. Mainly because we started to lean on Matt A's recruiting model way too much.

I would not call Mullin a disaster of a hire or anything. When we look back on this era, if it really is over, the guy inherited nothing and by year 4 we were a tournament team. If everyone that is eligible to return DID return, next year we would be even better. But college basketball is a revolving door nowadays and it is what is. I am not very high on Mullin as our coach, but time heals a lot of wounds. As time moves on, I will remember the Duke win, Nova wins, Marquette wins. I will remember how for some reason under Mullin we kicked Syracuse's ass and they stopped scheduling us. I thank him because even though he did not do a great job, he came back and wanted to turn this program around. He's been a millionaire for some time. He has a family. But he came back to Jamaica, Queens and tried to turn the program into a winner. In over his head? Absolutely. But if people view Mullin negatively after this, that is their prerogative. But I will NOT. And this coming from someone who did not even witness his days of being an SJU legend. I do not have those rose colored memories of Mullin winning games as a player. But I nonetheless appreciate his attempt to bring this program back to a level it has not been at since I have been a fan.

I know "trying" to do something does not deserve praise in most cases. But I appreciate Mullin for trying despite his obvious deficiencies
 
[quote="Monte" post=337121][quote="Class of 72" post=337118][quote="L J S A" post=337046][quote="Monte" post=337041]In this day and age, seems to me that many kids/parents/handlers/etc don’t want to hear the straight dope, they want to hear what they want to hear. Also seems to me that Chris doesn’t have the kind of personality to pander to these kids and their cohorts. College basketball is a dirty stinking business. Maybe Chris didn’t completely realize what he was getting himself in to.[/quote]

Because he's been more successful at this game than 99 percent of the kids he'll ever come across recruiting, and he was already a millionaire before ever taking up coaching, I really think that he can't be bothered sucking up to teens with overinflated opinions of themselves. I don't blame him one bit for that, but he's in the wrong business.[/quote]

Shame on those that convinced him to get into a business that never interested him. Those same people used a 90 year old coach to smooth the hire. Those same people don't give Mullin the time of day any more. Shame on a university President over his head in major college athletics where he had less experience than Mullin. Shame on Oliva for the Slice contract. From reading the various sports boards now 4 years later our basketball legend has become isolated from the fan base that loved him and who now equate him with a couple of the worst hires in SJU history.[/quote]

There is absolutely no reason in the world why the fan base that loved him before, shouldn’t continue to love him. I know that I still do.[/quote]

I was referring to the various message boards, including this one, and the overwhelming negative views of his coaching and not Mully as a player. It is this current image that we who love him feared from day one.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=348936]https://twitter.com/mikecraggsju/status/1127988337506177025?s=21[/quote]

This is great news. I believe that Cragg is already working together with CMA to create a new culture here. Its obvious that CMA is going to be very selective in staff hiring, and will only hire assts that buy in to that vision. It may take a little longer than most of would like, especially since it may preclude CMA from going after certain kids who didn’t fit the bill, but my hope is that when all is said and done our program will be once again considered amongst the better programs in country.
 
Chris Mullin The Coach is a very tough topic to address.
Chris Mullin The Player was one of the best college players and NBA players in the game...ever.
Mullin The Coach seemed in over his head, ran a poorly managed and under-manned staff and did not seem to be fully committed to the grind of the job.
It all made for very poor 'optics' for the man, the legend, and the program he and all of us love.
He achieved some great wins and it is blatantly obvious the guy bleeds red and white.
I wish Chris the very best.
He'll always be a St. John's legend in my mind.
Let's hope our program can achieve consistent success over the long haul.
I know Chris is rooting for that result.
 
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