Covid

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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=400254]"This is a highly contagious virus that can kill an immunocompromised patient and those with underlying and sometimes unknown medical conditions."

While very infrequent, we also know that it has killed some who were young and without any medical conditions. It is rare, but those who have lost healthy loved ones feel strongly that this fact should not be omitted.[/quote]

It's also relatively unsubstantiated. We would have to add to your sentence "While very infrequent, we also know that it has killed some who were young and without any medical conditions that we know of"" It's the same essentially as saying a young athlete without any known conditions died of a heart attack after a workout. More often than not, an underlying condition is identified post mortem.

It's more important to identify that everyone should take reasonable precautions to avoid contracting Covid, but also that virtually every any healthy individual of normal weight under the age of 70 will recover. This statement is not license to be reckless, and if anyone really wants to avoid contracting Covid is to wear gloves and masks, to avoid any public gatherings, and severely restrict contact with people in general.
 
[quote="panther2" post=400251][quote="Beast of the East" post=400250]I wouldn't presuppose that anyone who has gotten Covid has not taken precautions. 85% of those infected with Covid surveyed indicated that they regularly wore masks. Unfortunately we have no evidence to indicate how effective masks are.

I caught Covid early from a coworker who had a very bad case. My exposure to him was minimal and the day he went home sick I closed our offices (they are still closed) this was in mid march when our "scientists" told us masks were only needed if you worked in a hospital. They were is very short supply in any event.

What did happen is that the War Act was controversially implemented to force manufacturers to shift production to PPE and ventilators because the companies that made them as part of their product line didn't have the bandwidth to meet the exploding need. Soon we were selling our excess production to foreign countries.

Let's not be myopic and think masks and distancing provides the best protection possible. Few of us wear gloves when shopping or out in public, and most of us have limited contact at best act with people who may not be as diligent as they should be.

There's a reason there is a world wide pandemic. This is a highly contagious virus that can kill an immunocompromised patient and those with underlying and sometimes unknown medical conditions.

Whereas I would reject the notion of "go live your life" recklessly. I would also say that every single one of us who have even infrequent contact with other people,who don't wear masks AND gloves, who are not supremely vigilant about handwashing or touching their own face are in fact "living their life " while exposing themself to some risk.

The reality of this disease is that medical researchers (let's stop saying scientists) are learning things every single day, progressing towards a vaccine and better treatments.

To our asshole politicians who say they will assemble their own team of medical experts to approve a vaccine in their own state when it becomes available, they should burn in hell.

My graduate school degree included an entire 3 credit course on the FDA approval processes and regulations. The US drug approval process is the most comprehensive in the world. To suggest that any group quickly assembled could mimic or validate their work is either idiotic or criminal with a political end.

The only way to completely protect yourself is to completely isolate from anyone who ventures outside. Radically upgrade your ventilation system, and carefully sanitize all foods and items that enter your home. We still aren't certain if more infections are transmitted airborne or by physical contact with the virus.

So like most things, go live your life to the fullest while trying to minimize risk. If we all isolated to the fullest we would emerge to armageddon. If we all behaved like college kids a frat party we would experience massive infections and death.[/quote]



Beast it is not presupposing to state that all of those who were in the Rose Garden for the announcement of Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Courtwithout masks and ended up with covid were not taking precautions. Christie has stated that he wishes he had worn a mask and has encouraged Americans to wear one after what he went through. That 85% statistic that you are referring to is flawed.

I have absolutely no medical or scientific background at all. All I stated was that if there is the slightest chance that masks, as claimed by Drs. Fauci, Birx, and Redfield, can possibly slow down the spread of the virus, why not wear them for the sake of everyone? This is just plain common sense.[/quote]

Of course it is common sense, but so is wearing gloves frequent hand washing, and severely limiting social contacts.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=400232][quote="Logen" post=400207]All opinion, all valid but for once I largely agree with Zaun. If you want to isolate, isolate.
I know many people who have caught Covid, including between 10 and 15 who work for me and most travel extensively to ship yards around the country in what the USG has deemed essential USN work. Fortunately, none have had to be hospitalized, and all but two currently under recovery quarantine have returned to work. Most, not all, of the medical people I have talked to and been consulted by feel the virus is essentially treatable and no risk to people who do not have pre-existing conditions.
I personally am disgusted with those that feel vulnerable and expect others, especially the young and very young to suffer because of their fear.
As I said, if you want to isolate, isolate, but who among you is concerned for the children that are supposed to be growing up and developing but instead are being isolated at such a crucial time in their lives? Six months of isolation in the development cycle of a child can be extremely harmful and none of us have any idea of those long term ramifications. How many of you are concerned how detrimental and unfair virtual schooling is to urban kids, many of whom don’t have the proper tools in school to get a competitive education, never mind at home. And I am not talking out of my a$$, this comes from many HS coaches I know who double as urban school teachers.
This is obviously not an easy situation but as a person who is certainly in the “vulnerable” category, I could not look myself in the mirror if I chose to have the young pay the price many of you are asking them to pay because of my fear. I will be smart going about my life concerning Covid but I will live it having the courage to accept that I will not be part of expecting those not in danger to potentially pay a far greater price.
One last comment on the “long term effects” of Covid. Anecdotes, maybes, and drawing conclusions from ridiculously small data samples do not warrant shutting down schools, etc. Those in my age group (70 in November) have lived through many of these “the world is ending” hysteria scenarios. We are still here........[/quote]

While I totally agree that healthy individuals of nearly any age with no preexisting conditions are at extremely low risk of succumbing to Covid, they pose a risk to spreading it to someone with a pre-existing condition.

By the way sju athletes have been extremely diligent in keeping themselves safe. It's almost zero[/quote]

I agree 100% with your comment on spreading to those with pre-existing conditions, hence my comments regarding isolating, which should be an individual decision. We know enough about the virus now to manage it and not shut down people’s worlds every time there is a positive test. I have pre-existing conditions and choose to go on with my life while being as careful and smart as I can be. What I will not do is expect others, especially and primarily the young, to live with draconian lockdowns on my account. Others may differ but I will take responsibility for my actions and any resulting ramifications. Again, disagree, but I don’t think hiding at home is a solution to anything. We completely ignore all the other mental, economic, etc. hardships created by isolation and lockdowns for a relatively small % of people in real danger from this virus. I am one of those people statistically and I reiterate, I will take responsibility for my actions, I would hope others would do the same rather than expect others to put themselves in a different “harms way”. That seems incredibly selfish to me.
 
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For the 1st time in a long time, it's seems that for the most part almost the entire board is on the same page about something(besides wanting a winning program); Be cautious-the degree to which is a personal choice based on risk factors-but continue to live life as normally as possible. Good to see us all finding some common ground. Stay healthy everyone.
 
Today is the 8 month anniversary of a Briefing of Covid-19 by Dr. Nancy Messonnier of the CDC where she stated that it was not a question of whether the pandemic would strike in the US, it was a matter of when. Dr. Messonnier has not been allowed to speak in public since. She was right and was calling for national action. The entire country is in this together; what one locality does will impact other communities.

Wearing a mask is about concern for others. (I am sure most here have family who work in hospitals who have to deal with treating the infected-think of them.) I am tired of hearing about Covid-19 fatigue. Americans have gotten too soft. Think about what your parents or grandparents went through during WW2 for almost 4 years where everyone pitched in and didn't whine about it being too tough (and that was after going through a depression).

We don't know the after effects of exposure to the virus yet and these could or could not be worse on folks. (someone I know who recovered from Covid now has incredible leg pain that makes walking difficult.) Remember treatment at first was to put folks on ventilators and now madical professionals have learned that while symptoms deem such be the treatment, they now are slower to use it because of adverse effects. This virus will eventually be able to be "prevented by a vaccine BUT like influenza, the scientists will have to be producing further vaccines to fight additional strains, just like our annual flu shots.
 
Aside from being careful get the New York state covid app on your phones keep your Bluetooth on and it will tell you if you come across someone who has covid for more than a few minutes. ( providing they have a smart phone and the app but heck even I have a smart phone now ) [attachment=1643]1F7CDF40-E887-405C-B337-D89E81CFF42B.jpeg[/attachment]
 
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Does this ring a bell?

It's poetry in motion

She turned her tender eyes to me
As deep as any ocean
As sweet as any harmony
Mm - but she blinded me with science
"She blinded me with science!"
And failed me in biology

When I'm dancing close to her
"Blinding me with science - science!"
"Science!"
I can smell the chemicals
"Blinding me with science - science!"
"Science!"

Mm - but it's poetry in motion
And when she turned her eyes to me
As deep as any ocean
As sweet as any harmony

Mm - but she blinded me with science
"She blinded me with science!"
And failed me in geometry
When she's dancing next to me
"Blinding me with science - science!"
"Science!"
I can hear machinery"Blinding me with science - science!"
"Science!"

It's poetry in motion
And now she's making love to me
The spheres're in commotion
The elements in harmony
She blinded me with science
"She blinded me with science!"
And hit me with technology
"Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!"

I don't believe it!
There she goes again!
She's tidied up, and I can't find anything!
All my tubes and wires
And careful notes
And antiquated notions

But! - it's poetry in motion
And when she turned her eyes to me
As deep as any ocean
As sweet as any harmony
Mm - but she blinded me with science
"She blinded me with - with science!"
 
Earlier posts in this thread triggered my healthcare administrative practices head, particularly about "exception reporting". When I worked in psychiatric hospitals there was great concern about polypharmacy, using more than one antipsychotic medication on the same patient. with much confusion ensuing about which drug was helpful and which side effects were caused by what. Most staff were rigorous in their adherence to the rule against polypharmacy and when they felt it was truly necessary, went out of their way to make the case for physician reviewed approval. A few staff (mostly psychiatrists who had been in practice before the modern drugs were available) were perpetual rule-breakers and always in trouble. The administrative intervention used with them was to demand a level of paperwork compliance for any use of polypharmacy to the point that it was onerous. So much write-up was required for polypharmacy justification (with withholding of paychecks if regulations were flouted) that the incidence of polypharmacy went way down.

I bring it up because even in our relative ignorance about COVID we can structure rewards and sanctions to encourage best practices and dissuade from deep stupidity uncaring about other people.
 
Please note politically related posts have been removed including all posts following them. Please cease and desist.
 
[quote="OhioFan" post=400278]Please note politically related posts have been removed including all posts following them. Please cease and desist.[/quote]

Totally understand, it's been well established that this is a politics free space. However, when the history books are written, it will be impossible to separate politics and Coronavirus.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=400285][quote="OhioFan" post=400278]Please note politically related posts have been removed including all posts following them. Please cease and desist.[/quote]

Totally understand, it's been well established that this is a politics free space. However, when the history books are written, it will be impossible to separate politics and Coronavirus.[/quote]
You are correct, and when the books are written there will be plenty of blame to go around. But why is it so difficult for some to keep this topic to health and well-being, and leave politics out of it? After all, we're not writing history books here.
 
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=400282]A good one to read, to frame your thoughts about the risks of this terrible disease.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/well/live/when-the-doctor-is-a-covid-long-hauler.html[/URL][/quote]



Jacksonville Jaguars running back has been ruled out for the rest of the season due to complications from covid. He has been hospitalized. He is 23 years old and was healthy. If he is unable to play again, how will he be compensated? What does his future hold? The problem with covid is that since it is relatively new, no one knows the long term effects.

Dr Carpenser points out in her article that due to her career choice, she is able to carry on with her professional life. The same can't be said for doctors and nurses in a hospital setting, athletes, construction workers, and other professions where you are required to exert energy.

I love sports, but this summer was the first time in more than 65 years that I was not in the park watching, playing, or coaching basketball. I am looking forward to a successful basketball season for St Johns this year. However, if the season was canceled, I would be disappointed but totally understand.
 
Not contagious obviously, but there are 6 million car accidents in the US every year, many resulting in injury or worse. 2 million experience permanent injuries. Crashes have a 6% mortality rate.

[URL]https://www.driverknowledge.com/car-accident-statistics/[/URL]

Just imagine if this got the same media coverage nationally 24/7, 365 with death toll tickers daily in bold. We would all be much more afraid to drive. Imagine movements to avoid cars at all costs, because you may die from them or be seriously injured. No it's not an exact analogy, but you can't tell me people wouldn't be much more freaked out about driving if this was blasted everywhere everyday and it's all people spoke about. The reason we don't freak out about it is because we understand the necessity of driving and that it's a calculated risk. We know bad things can happen, but we take precautions (seatbelt, driver safety courses, safety features) and do it anyway. We need to have this approach with COVID IMO. Wear a mask, though I think it's silly to wear them outside by yourself with the closest person 100 yards away or in your car alone. We need to understand the necessity of living life, letting children develop, keeping schools open, letting parents go to work, and not hiding in fear.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=400268]Earlier posts in this thread triggered my healthcare administrative practices head, particularly about "exception reporting". When I worked in psychiatric hospitals there was great concern about polypharmacy, using more than one antipsychotic medication on the same patient. with much confusion ensuing about which drug was helpful and which side effects were caused by what. Most staff were rigorous in their adherence to the rule against polypharmacy and when they felt it was truly necessary, went out of their way to make the case for physician reviewed approval. A few staff (mostly psychiatrists who had been in practice before the modern drugs were available) were perpetual rule-breakers and always in trouble. The administrative intervention used with them was to demand a level of paperwork compliance for any use of polypharmacy to the point that it was onerous. So much write-up was required for polypharmacy justification (with withholding of paychecks if regulations were flouted) that the incidence of polypharmacy went way down.

I bring it up because even in our relative ignorance about COVID we can structure rewards and sanctions to encourage best practices and dissuade from deep stupidity uncaring about other people.[/quote]

I agree, but what dilutes any messaging about mask wearing are hypocrites who make dramatic public proclamations about mask wearing and other safety precautions who have been caught multiple times not wearing a mask in public spaces, while clubbing, getting their hair done etc. The people who think rules are for other people are as dangerous as those who doubt the rules, maybe moreso. We see this repeatedly in our culture - rules about not using a cell phone once the doors of a plane are closed, and a very influential lawmaker going ballistic on a flight attendant when asked to power down.

This post isn't about politics, and i deliberately did not name anyone. News agencies refrain from reporting them, so they remain obscure. But they remain, hypocrites all, some criminal, who like Don Fanucci in the Godfather, only want to "dip their beak".
 
Yes Beast, exactly. We have seen some of the loudest "wear a damn mask" politicians and celebs not wear them when the cameras are off. It's do as I say, not as I do. You don't think this makes some people think, "there must be something they know and it can't be that serious if they don't care"? I'm not in that camp by the way, I always wear a mask when applicable, but to see some of the loudest critics not following their own demands comes off as a power trip and makes it hard to take them seriously. Unfortunately COVID has been a vehicle for the power hungry and weaponized against people for motives totally unrelated to actually fighting the virus. That much is obvious.
 
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