Covid

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[quote="Logen" post=400207]All opinion, all valid but for once I largely agree with Zaun. If you want to isolate, isolate.
I know many people who have caught Covid, including between 10 and 15 who work for me and most travel extensively to ship yards around the country in what the USG has deemed essential USN work. Fortunately, none have had to be hospitalized, and all but two currently under recovery quarantine have returned to work. Most, not all, of the medical people I have talked to and been consulted by feel the virus is essentially treatable and no risk to people who do not have pre-existing conditions.
I personally am disgusted with those that feel vulnerable and expect others, especially the young and very young to suffer because of their fear.
As I said, if you want to isolate, isolate, but who among you is concerned for the children that are supposed to be growing up and developing but instead are being isolated at such a crucial time in their lives? Six months of isolation in the development cycle of a child can be extremely harmful and none of us have any idea of those long term ramifications. How many of you are concerned how detrimental and unfair virtual schooling is to urban kids, many of whom don’t have the proper tools in school to get a competitive education, never mind at home. And I am not talking out of my a$$, this comes from many HS coaches I know who double as urban school teachers.
This is obviously not an easy situation but as a person who is certainly in the “vulnerable” category, I could not look myself in the mirror if I chose to have the young pay the price many of you are asking them to pay because of my fear. I will be smart going about my life concerning Covid but I will live it having the courage to accept that I will not be part of expecting those not in danger to potentially pay a far greater price.
One last comment on the “long term effects” of Covid. Anecdotes, maybes, and drawing conclusions from ridiculously small data samples do not warrant shutting down schools, etc. Those in my age group (70 in November) have lived through many of these “the world is ending” hysteria scenarios. We are still here........[/quote]

Extremely well said...
 
[quote="austour" post=400200][quote="Mike Zaun" post=400157] I'm more at risk and I show up at work everyday. And if I was a major athlete, I'd obviously play if I'm going to work now. Don't see what's unreasonable about this.[/quote]

The unreasonable-ness is you are comparing "amateur" athletic endeavors to paid employment. And to take it a step further, if you know you will be getting paid to play eventually why put yourself at risk Also, if you know you are never going to be paid to play ever why put yourself at risk. The only guys who would benefit from playing at all are the guys trying to prove they are worthy of being paid to play in the future. It's a simple risk/return equation, not that I would expect every player to be able to think it through like this.

You have to go to work, I assume, to pay your bills in a field where you can't work from home. Comparing that to students who are asked to play hoops to generate revenue for their school for no compensation is very different. Especially since I'm pretty sure all schools will honour scholarships and they won't lose eligibility if they opt out.

The seasons going to go on because the schools need the money. I just don't understand why most of the players would accept the risk given their personal return.[/quote]

"no compensation"? What do you call a free education and all the other benefits that come along with being a high D1 athlete? We could argue back and forth on whether or not the kids should get paid, but they are compensated.
 
This could be a moot discussion. With 77,000 new cases recorded yesterday (and heading upward), my guess is the season will be, at very least, delayed. :(
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=400219]This could be a moot discussion. With 77,000 new cases recorded yesterday (and heading upward), my guess is the season will be, at very least, delayed. :([/quote]

The counting of new cases is an empty statistic to me, how many of them are seriously ill, how many hospitalized, etc. Numbers need context, in and of themselves they mean little. Even when the “first wave” hit there were temporary facilities set up in several places that largely went unused. As I stated prior in this thread, I have had more than a little direct experience with the virus and it has been treated very effectively by home treatment. With I may add, minimal direct contact with medical people.
 
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Very well said Logen...we all hear mostly one side of the debate, but rarely the other. You can agree that COVID is a concern and not the flu or a hoax while also agreeing that we need to move on if we are not in one of the high risk categories, of course while taking precautions. IMO the focus should be on protecting the most vulnerable (which are the polar opposite of college athletes), while allowing those who are prepared to accept some risk to move on with life. First it was about shutting everything down for 2 weeks to slow the spread and ensure hospital space. It has morphed from that to what we have now: no positive tests allowed. That's a huge shift.

As for saying kids and their families have no idea what COVID risk is...they can easily access a doctor to make an informed decision. My mother actually consulted a doctor for this reason before going back to work in person. These kids have tons of resources at their disposal, just like I did in college down to resume writing assistance. To act like these kids and their families are ignorant to everything going on around them is very patronizing. They know the risks, they simply want to play. And none of us would shame them for deciding not to play either. That's the point.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400224]Very well said Logen...we all hear mostly one side of the debate, but rarely the other. You can agree that COVID is a concern and not the flu or a hoax while also agreeing that we need to move on if we are not in one of the high risk categories, of course while taking precautions. IMO the focus should be on protecting the most vulnerable (which are the polar opposite of college athletes), while allowing those who are prepared to accept some risk to move on with life. First it was about shutting everything down for 2 weeks to slow the spread and ensure hospital space. It has morphed from that to what we have now: no positive tests allowed. That's a huge shift.

As for saying kids and their families have no idea what COVID risk is...they can easily access a doctor to make an informed decision. My mother actually consulted a doctor for this reason before going back to work in person. These kids have tons of resources at their disposal, just like I did in college down to resume writing assistance. To act like these kids and their families are ignorant to everything going on around them is very patronizing. They know the risks, they simply want to play. And none of us would shame them for deciding not to play either. That's the point.[/quote]

We seem to have become a society where everyone thinks they know what is best for everyone else. I take a lot of precautions. I always have. I'm a bit of a germaphobe to begin with. During the early stages of the virus(mid March), I was out and about all over NYC; subways, buses, MSG 3X, etc. I attribute my normal precautions to me not getting Covid. I did not start wearing a mask till around April 1. I always wear a mask when I go out, but I don't tell anyone else what to do. Today I'm meeting a friend at an UES bar to watch the Bama-Tenn game. In order to eat and drink, I'll need to remove my mask. I know the risk involved. I'll be cautious as always, but I refuse to let the risk of Covid stop me from most of my normal activities. And this coming from someone who's friend's husband passed away yesterday from Covid. He contracted it, along with about a dozen family members and close friends, at a Jersey Shore get together over labor day weekend. They all survived, including an 83 year old woman, he didn't. He was 65 and in good health. As you say, you can acknowledge the ongoing concerns over Covid, and still choose to try and live as normal a life as possible. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=400207]All opinion, all valid but for once I largely agree with Zaun. If you want to isolate, isolate.
I know many people who have caught Covid, including between 10 and 15 who work for me and most travel extensively to ship yards around the country in what the USG has deemed essential USN work. Fortunately, none have had to be hospitalized, and all but two currently under recovery quarantine have returned to work. Most, not all, of the medical people I have talked to and been consulted by feel the virus is essentially treatable and no risk to people who do not have pre-existing conditions.
I personally am disgusted with those that feel vulnerable and expect others, especially the young and very young to suffer because of their fear.
As I said, if you want to isolate, isolate, but who among you is concerned for the children that are supposed to be growing up and developing but instead are being isolated at such a crucial time in their lives? Six months of isolation in the development cycle of a child can be extremely harmful and none of us have any idea of those long term ramifications. How many of you are concerned how detrimental and unfair virtual schooling is to urban kids, many of whom don’t have the proper tools in school to get a competitive education, never mind at home. And I am not talking out of my a$$, this comes from many HS coaches I know who double as urban school teachers.
This is obviously not an easy situation but as a person who is certainly in the “vulnerable” category, I could not look myself in the mirror if I chose to have the young pay the price many of you are asking them to pay because of my fear. I will be smart going about my life concerning Covid but I will live it having the courage to accept that I will not be part of expecting those not in danger to potentially pay a far greater price.
One last comment on the “long term effects” of Covid. Anecdotes, maybes, and drawing conclusions from ridiculously small data samples do not warrant shutting down schools, etc. Those in my age group (70 in November) have lived through many of these “the world is ending” hysteria scenarios. We are still here........[/quote]

While I totally agree that healthy individuals of nearly any age with no preexisting conditions are at extremely low risk of succumbing to Covid, they pose a risk to spreading it to someone with a pre-existing condition.

By the way sju athletes have been extremely diligent in keeping themselves safe. It's almost zero
 
[quote="Monte" post=400218]

"no compensation"? What do you call a free education and all the other benefits that come along with being a high D1 athlete? We could argue back and forth on whether or not the kids should get paid, but they are compensated.[/quote]

Well in this case they are going to be compensated whether they take the risk or not so that point is moot.
 
[quote="Logen" post=400221][quote="JohnnyFan" post=400219]This could be a moot discussion. With 77,000 new cases recorded yesterday (and heading upward), my guess is the season will be, at very least, delayed. :([/quote]

As I stated prior in this thread, I have had more than a little direct experience with the virus and it has been treated very effectively by home treatment. With I may add, minimal direct contact with medical people.[/quote]

Of course that's the story for most. And I also don't necessarily vehemently disagree with your school position, though I think is should be up to the parents to decide how they would like to proceed with school at home available at the same time as physical school. Forcing kids to go to school can also be emotionally devastating if they go in fear. Similar complications arise with those suffering from depression or anxiety. Then we have the economy which is going to need society to take some risk if it is going to be able to hold off total devastation. Again, just like with the players, every situation takes a risk reward analysis. Even though I prefer to err on the side of caution I understand that I am privileged to be able to do so, but I go out to dinner every once in a while for my sanity. Just in the case of players I don't see the reward. The only place I draw the line is where one takes an unnecessary risk that puts others at risk through no fault of their own. There's still a lot of that going on unfortunately. And we are going to have 300K dead in the US by the end of the year. Let's face it, we blew it in March/April and can't go back and fix it.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400093]Has any college athlete who tested positive for coronavirus had any symptoms? Ever? I ask that seriously. I know it then goes to: well they can still infect others. But aren't you only contagious for the 2 week period or so? If true, wouldn't the logic be to quarantine those who test positive but then bring them right back? Why does everything have to shut down instantly because of 1 positive test? Not getting political at all...just honestly curious, because this is our season in the balance here.[/quote]

Instead of all the insanity caused by the initial post in this thread, which seems
caused by not reading the news, let's just re-start where - about one month ago:

[URL]https://www.bobshideout.com/view/mystery-of-the-pyramids-bho/?src[/URL]=outbrain&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=00d935ee6e523aed7ba15d28456c35a272&utm_campaign=001ac4b9b13ab201aa08f9c5971a8a9f74&utm_key=260&utm_content=00af670d522229e273a1fb3229cc9b809b&utm_term=BHO_D_US_mystery-of-the-pyramids-bho_dorin_w_229340660&guid=v1-eb53dc4d34b0d1040eb76389a1fc204c-006ec04b59719d7943f6b628dfedec074c-gnrtkyzqgazweljqmfsgeljug43tkllbguydklldguytgmlbgy3dkojvgq&dicbo=v1-eb53dc4d34b0d1040eb76389a1fc204c-006ec04b59719d7943f6b628dfedec074c-gnrtkyzqgazweljqmfsgeljug43tkllbguydklldguytgmlbgy3dkojvgq
 
[quote="austour" post=400235][quote="Logen" post=400221][quote="JohnnyFan" post=400219]This could be a moot discussion. With 77,000 new cases recorded yesterday (and heading upward), my guess is the season will be, at very least, delayed. :([/quote]

As I stated prior in this thread, I have had more than a little direct experience with the virus and it has been treated very effectively by home treatment. With I may add, minimal direct contact with medical people.[/quote]

Of course that's the story for most. And I also don't necessarily vehemently disagree with your school position, though I think is should be up to the parents to decide how they would like to proceed with school at home available at the same time as physical school. Forcing kids to go to school can also be emotionally devastating if they go in fear. Similar complications arise with those suffering from depression or anxiety. Then we have the economy which is going to need society to take some risk if it is going to be able to hold off total devastation. Again, just like with the players, every situation takes a risk reward analysis. Even though I prefer to err on the side of caution I understand that I am privileged to be able to do so, but I go out to dinner every once in a while for my sanity. Just in the case of players I don't see the reward. The only place I draw the line is where one takes an unnecessary risk that puts others at risk through no fault of their own. There's still a lot of that going on unfortunately. And we are going to have 300K dead in the US by the end of the year. Let's face it, we blew it in March/April and can't go back and fix it.[/quote]


"..... I also don't necessarily vehemently disagree..."

Wait, I'm confused. Does it mean that you "possibly vehemently disagree"? Or that you "possibly vehemently agree"? Or maybe you "somewhat possibly maybe slightly possibly agree"? Or "disagree"? Honestly, I have no clue WTF you're saying here.
 
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COVID is tough, nothing to sneeze at or minimize. I do hear Mike Zaun and Monte when they say you've got to live your life while hopefully being careful. I'm in my late 60s and ran a knights of Columbus blood drive at my church today. Lots of nervousness and mask wearing when I got home as well as there. My youngest is doing his sophomore semester at App State at home as he has all online classes and didnt want to put him or his old geezer parents at risk. Tragically, a fellow soph in his class got the virus and passes away at 19 with no preexisting conditions. We all have hard choices to make and make them the best we can. I will say tough guy attitude strikes me as kind of juvenile.
 
Many times I have said, that won't happen to me, only to have it happen. Regarding Covid, my family and I choose to be very careful. My cousin, who is also our granddaughter's Godmother has been visiting us this week from LA. She had her second breast cancer surgery in February and had been home most of the time. She was fortunate to have friends who could spend time with her. When she decided to visit, we all took rapid covid tests just to be safe.

For the most part, I only go out to shop, walk around my neighborhood, and take my granddaughter to school, cross country practice, and her meets. Her school, Archbishop Molloy, has been great. Students and teachers have their temperatures taken daily before they enter the building. At the cross country meets, athletes have their temperatures taken before each race and are only allowed to remove their masks while they are running. We have been out to eat a few times at outdoor venues with family or friends.

I definitely agree that everyone should have the opportunity to lives their lives. However, one thing that bothers me is people who do not wear masks in public. If there is the slightest chance that wearing a mask helps to stop covid from spreading, why the resistance. My family and I wear them to protect ourselves and others. Being in our 70's,while raising our 13 year old granddaughter, my wife and I are very concerned about our health. It is not my place to tell anyone how to live their life, but it does not seem like it is too much to ask people to wear a mask for the safety of all of us.

On a more positive note, I met a fellow St. Johns grad at the cross country meet whose daughter is a senior at Molloy. We had a great time talking about our experiences. He also told me that we would be spending more time together since his youngest daughter is in the 8th grade and would be attending Molloy and running track next year. It was a good day.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=400244]COVID is tough, nothing to sneeze at or minimize. I do hear Mike Zaun and Monte when they say you've got to live your life while hopefully being careful. I'm in my late 60s and ran a knights of Columbus blood drive at my church today. Lots of nervousness and mask wearing when I got home as well as there. My youngest is doing his sophomore semester at App State at home as he has all online classes and didnt want to put him or his old geezer parents at risk. Tragically, a fellow soph in his class got the virus and passes away at 19 with no preexisting conditions. We all have hard choices to make and make them the best we can. I will say tough guy attitude strikes me as kind of juvenile.[/quote]

My son's best friend is on the women's bball team at App State and she told me last weekend while home visiting that there was a big Covid outbreak amongst the football team.
Tragically we read about more and more young people who catch the virus and die. There was a 19 year old athlete in Montreal last month who caught the virus and died with no pre-existing conditions. Very sad.
 
I wouldn't presuppose that anyone who has gotten Covid has not taken precautions. 85% of those infected with Covid surveyed indicated that they regularly wore masks. Unfortunately we have no evidence to indicate how effective masks are.

I caught Covid early from a coworker who had a very bad case. My exposure to him was minimal and the day he went home sick I closed our offices (they are still closed) this was in mid march when our "scientists" told us masks were only needed if you worked in a hospital. They were is very short supply in any event.

What did happen is that the War Act was controversially implemented to force manufacturers to shift production to PPE and ventilators because the companies that made them as part of their product line didn't have the bandwidth to meet the exploding need. Soon we were selling our excess production to foreign countries.

Let's not be myopic and think masks and distancing provides the best protection possible. Few of us wear gloves when shopping or out in public, and most of us have limited contact at best act with people who may not be as diligent as they should be.

There's a reason there is a world wide pandemic. This is a highly contagious virus that can kill an immunocompromised patient and those with underlying and sometimes unknown medical conditions.

Whereas I would reject the notion of "go live your life" recklessly. I would also say that every single one of us who have even infrequent contact with other people,who don't wear masks AND gloves, who are not supremely vigilant about handwashing or touching their own face are in fact "living their life " while exposing themself to some risk.

The reality of this disease is that medical researchers (let's stop saying scientists) are learning things every single day, progressing towards a vaccine and better treatments.

To our asshole politicians who say they will assemble their own team of medical experts to approve a vaccine in their own state when it becomes available, they should burn in hell.

My graduate school degree included an entire 3 credit course on the FDA approval processes and regulations. The US drug approval process is the most comprehensive in the world. To suggest that any group quickly assembled could mimic or validate their work is either idiotic or criminal with a political end.

The only way to completely protect yourself is to completely isolate from anyone who ventures outside. Radically upgrade your ventilation system, and carefully sanitize all foods and items that enter your home. We still aren't certain if more infections are transmitted airborne or by physical contact with the virus.

So like most things, go live your life to the fullest while trying to minimize risk. If we all isolated to the fullest we would emerge to armageddon economically, with retail businesses insolvent and unemployment above 50%. If we all behaved like college kids a frat party we would experience massive infections and death.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=400250]I wouldn't presuppose that anyone who has gotten Covid has not taken precautions. 85% of those infected with Covid surveyed indicated that they regularly wore masks. Unfortunately we have no evidence to indicate how effective masks are.

I caught Covid early from a coworker who had a very bad case. My exposure to him was minimal and the day he went home sick I closed our offices (they are still closed) this was in mid march when our "scientists" told us masks were only needed if you worked in a hospital. They were is very short supply in any event.

What did happen is that the War Act was controversially implemented to force manufacturers to shift production to PPE and ventilators because the companies that made them as part of their product line didn't have the bandwidth to meet the exploding need. Soon we were selling our excess production to foreign countries.

Let's not be myopic and think masks and distancing provides the best protection possible. Few of us wear gloves when shopping or out in public, and most of us have limited contact at best act with people who may not be as diligent as they should be.

There's a reason there is a world wide pandemic. This is a highly contagious virus that can kill an immunocompromised patient and those with underlying and sometimes unknown medical conditions.

Whereas I would reject the notion of "go live your life" recklessly. I would also say that every single one of us who have even infrequent contact with other people,who don't wear masks AND gloves, who are not supremely vigilant about handwashing or touching their own face are in fact "living their life " while exposing themself to some risk.

The reality of this disease is that medical researchers (let's stop saying scientists) are learning things every single day, progressing towards a vaccine and better treatments.

To our asshole politicians who say they will assemble their own team of medical experts to approve a vaccine in their own state when it becomes available, they should burn in hell.

My graduate school degree included an entire 3 credit course on the FDA approval processes and regulations. The US drug approval process is the most comprehensive in the world. To suggest that any group quickly assembled could mimic or validate their work is either idiotic or criminal with a political end.

The only way to completely protect yourself is to completely isolate from anyone who ventures outside. Radically upgrade your ventilation system, and carefully sanitize all foods and items that enter your home. We still aren't certain if more infections are transmitted airborne or by physical contact with the virus.

So like most things, go live your life to the fullest while trying to minimize risk. If we all isolated to the fullest we would emerge to armageddon. If we all behaved like college kids a frat party we would experience massive infections and death.[/quote]



Beast it is not presupposing to state that all of those who were in the Rose Garden for the announcement of Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Courtwithout masks and ended up with covid were not taking precautions. Christie has stated that he wishes he had worn a mask and has encouraged Americans to wear one after what he went through. That 85% statistic that you are referring to is flawed.

I have absolutely no medical or scientific background at all. All I stated was that if there is the slightest chance that masks, as claimed by Drs. Fauci, Birx, and Redfield, can possibly slow down the spread of the virus, why not wear them for the sake of everyone? This is just plain common sense.
 
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Here is some context to the study people are quoting, regarding "85% of those infected with Covid surveyed indicated that they regularly wore masks".

This comes from one specific study that is being regularly misrepresented. Some contextual data......

Tested: 360 adults

Results: 154 positive

85% of those that tested positive said they "always or often" wear a mask
88.7% of those that tested negative said they "always or often" wear a mask
*statistically insignificant

40.9% of those who tested positive, has recently went at a restaurant or coffee shop.
27.7% of those who tested positive, has recently went at a restaurant or coffee shop.
*important, often omitted information

A spokesman for the study has said the purpose of the study was to assess possible situations for community exposure, not mask use. There are many studies that were specifically designed (in labs) to measure the efficacy of mask wearing. The aforementioned study relies on human reporting, whereas lab studies look exclusively at particle transmission through a masks.
 
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[quote="panther2" post=400251][quote="Beast of the East" post=400250]I wouldn't presuppose that anyone who has gotten Covid has not taken precautions. 85% of those infected with Covid surveyed indicated that they regularly wore masks. Unfortunately we have no evidence to indicate how effective masks are.

I caught Covid early from a coworker who had a very bad case. My exposure to him was minimal and the day he went home sick I closed our offices (they are still closed) this was in mid march when our "scientists" told us masks were only needed if you worked in a hospital. They were is very short supply in any event.

What did happen is that the War Act was controversially implemented to force manufacturers to shift production to PPE and ventilators because the companies that made them as part of their product line didn't have the bandwidth to meet the exploding need. Soon we were selling our excess production to foreign countries.

Let's not be myopic and think masks and distancing provides the best protection possible. Few of us wear gloves when shopping or out in public, and most of us have limited contact at best act with people who may not be as diligent as they should be.

There's a reason there is a world wide pandemic. This is a highly contagious virus that can kill an immunocompromised patient and those with underlying and sometimes unknown medical conditions.

Whereas I would reject the notion of "go live your life" recklessly. I would also say that every single one of us who have even infrequent contact with other people,who don't wear masks AND gloves, who are not supremely vigilant about handwashing or touching their own face are in fact "living their life " while exposing themself to some risk.

The reality of this disease is that medical researchers (let's stop saying scientists) are learning things every single day, progressing towards a vaccine and better treatments.

To our asshole politicians who say they will assemble their own team of medical experts to approve a vaccine in their own state when it becomes available, they should burn in hell.

My graduate school degree included an entire 3 credit course on the FDA approval processes and regulations. The US drug approval process is the most comprehensive in the world. To suggest that any group quickly assembled could mimic or validate their work is either idiotic or criminal with a political end.

The only way to completely protect yourself is to completely isolate from anyone who ventures outside. Radically upgrade your ventilation system, and carefully sanitize all foods and items that enter your home. We still aren't certain if more infections are transmitted airborne or by physical contact with the virus.

So like most things, go live your life to the fullest while trying to minimize risk. If we all isolated to the fullest we would emerge to armageddon. If we all behaved like college kids a frat party we would experience massive infections and death.[/quote]



Beast it is not presupposing to state that all of those who were in the Rose Garden for the announcement of Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Courtwithout masks and ended up with covid were not taking precautions. Christie has stated that he wishes he had worn a mask and has encouraged Americans to wear one after what he went through. That 85% statistic that you are referring to is flawed.

I have absolutely no medical or scientific background at all. All I stated was that if there is the slightest chance that masks, as claimed by Drs. Fauci, Birx, and Redfield, can possibly slow down the spread of the virus, why not wear them for the sake of everyone? This is just plain common sense.[/quote]

I wasn't refuting your post and deliberately did not quote it for that reason. Whether it is gathering in close quarters without ppe for an orthodox wedding, a blm protest, or politic rally, it is reckless behavior that puts not only yourself but the public at large at risk.

Glad you and your family are healthy.
 
"This is a highly contagious virus that can kill an immunocompromised patient and those with underlying and sometimes unknown medical conditions."

While very infrequent, we also know that it has killed some who were young and without any medical conditions. It is rare, but those who have lost healthy loved ones feel strongly that this fact should not be omitted.
 
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