Covid

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JohnnyFever

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Has any college athlete who tested positive for coronavirus had any symptoms? Ever? I ask that seriously. I know it then goes to: well they can still infect others. But aren't you only contagious for the 2 week period or so? If true, wouldn't the logic be to quarantine those who test positive but then bring them right back? Why does everything have to shut down instantly because of 1 positive test? Not getting political at all...just honestly curious, because this is our season in the balance here.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400093]Has any college athlete who tested positive for coronavirus had any symptoms? Ever? I ask that seriously. I know it then goes to: well they can still infect others. But aren't you only contagious for the 2 week period or so? If true, wouldn't the logic be to quarantine those who test positive but then bring them right back? Why does everything have to shut down instantly because of 1 positive test? Not getting political at all...just honestly curious, because this is our season in the balance here.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.the-scientist.com/...nced-heart-damage-after-covid-19-study-67929#[/URL]:~:text=Months%20after%20recovering%20from,September%2011%20in%20JAMA%20Cardiology.

[URL]https://www.kcci.com/article/d...dent-athletes-whove-had-coronavirus/34230158#[/URL]
 
While scary, the headline about cardiac issues and COVID admits it's rare and "based on limited studies and anecdotal evidence". This is why we need to be very nuanced here. Certainly not settled science at this point. There are always extremes of anything but should not represent all.

"But Wasfy points to several important limitations that will make it difficult to apply the study’s findings more broadly. For one, it was small, did not include controls, and did not test its participants at the same time interval following their diagnosis, all facets that the authors tell Science News they plan to rectify in subsequent follow-ups."

We need to be careful obviously, but right now there's no major evidence showing that this is a regular occurrence from COVID. Regardless, let's hope no one tests positive and all our guys are 100% healthy all year.
 
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[quote="SJU85" post=399967][quote="Spocky Ramone" post=399962][quote="L J S A" post=399959][quote="Spocky Ramone" post=399936][quote="SJUFAN2" post=399934][quote="lawmanfan" post=399930]Great - now I have to decide whether I am more perplexed by irrational optimism than I am by irrational negativity[/quote]

Kinda like deciding which is worse for you, butter or margarine. :silly:[/quote]
It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature[/quote]

You are definitely are around my age and also watched a lot of TV. :lol:[/quote]

I watched WAAAAAY to much TV in my youth.

My first thought was to make a Parkay reference, but decide to go with Chiffon.[/quote]




[/quote]
These commercials are like a stroll down memory lane. The mid to late 70’s, when the Mets were bad. Kind of like a stroll down recent memory lane as well.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=399969]I never realized -- or did but had long forgotten -- that that's Vic Tayback in the Parkay commercial.[/quote]
Awesome that you noticed that, thanks for pointing that out!

Tayback is best known as SpongeBob forerunner Mel Sharples on “Alice”. He was also Jojo Krako in the Star Trek episode, “A Piece of the Action”
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400129]While scary, the headline about cardiac issues and COVID admits it's rare and "based on limited studies and anecdotal evidence". This is why we need to be very nuanced here. Certainly not settled science at this point. There are always extremes of anything but should not represent all.

"But Wasfy points to several important limitations that will make it difficult to apply the study’s findings more broadly. For one, it was small, did not include controls, and did not test its participants at the same time interval following their diagnosis, all facets that the authors tell Science News they plan to rectify in subsequent follow-ups."

We need to be careful obviously, but right now there's no major evidence showing that this is a regular occurrence from COVID. Regardless, let's hope no one tests positive and all our guys are 100% healthy all year.[/quote]

Well, at least you have moved past the "EVER" standard..
 
No one has all the answers, especially me. I'm just asking that we be very very careful not to make the response to this much worse than the actual virus itself. We don't react this way with other things that have risks albeit small ones. And even if the cardiac inflammation does occur more than we thought in healthy athletes...has anyone studied if it's permanent or not? For all we know, it can be very temporary while the body fights the virus off. There's a lot we still don't know. Why not have student athletes sign COVID disclosures so schools cannot be held liable? This places risk on the individual and not a huge university. It also makes it clear: either sign that you want to play despite risks (there are plenty of other risks except COVID) or simply opt-out because you are concerned. I would not fault an athlete either way. Should be personal decision. If I'm trying to make most of my college years and perhaps chance at playing professionally, I'm taking my chances here. Just me.
 
[quote="ctstorm" post=400150]

Well, at least you have moved past the "EVER" standard..[/quote]

Zaun's position is essentially "the hell with the risk to the kids, I want to watch basketball."

Maybe the question of risk should be left to the students, parents, medical community and the schools who are responsible for the well-being of their students (not just student-athletes) and staff - instead of the fans who have nothing at stake other than their entertainment.

It's also worth noting that a 1% chance of something terrible happening to one person is arguably a much higher risk than a 10% chance of a number of people having a mild problem. As others noted, it is not easy being in the position the schools are in right now.

The good news is that if there's no basketball you can always read a book or a newspaper or something.
 
[quote="lawmanfan" post=400154][quote="ctstorm" post=400150]

Well, at least you have moved past the "EVER" standard..[/quote]

Zaun's position is essentially "the hell with the risk to the kids, I want to watch basketball."

Maybe the question of risk should be left to the students, parents, medical community and the schools who are responsible for the well-being of their students (not just student-athletes) and staff - instead of the fans who have nothing at stake other than their entertainment.

It's also worth noting that a 1% chance of something terrible happening to one person is arguably a much higher risk than a 10% chance of a number of people having a mild problem. As others noted, it is not easy being in the position the schools are in right now.

The good news is that if there's no basketball you can always read a book or a newspaper or something.[/quote]

While it may be extremely low risk, I can't help but keep thinking God forbid a player dies of the virus after contracting it during the season. Are we supposed to say "Oh well, he signed up for this risk, let's just move on and keep the games rolling"? This goes for all major sports, but these are just kids who aren't being paid to play.
 
[quote="lawmanfan" post=400154][quote="ctstorm" post=400150]

Well, at least you have moved past the "EVER" standard..[/quote]

Zaun's position is essentially "the hell with the risk to the kids, I want to watch basketball."

Maybe the question of risk should be left to the students, parents, medical community and the schools who are responsible for the well-being of their students (not just student-athletes) and staff - instead of the fans who have nothing at stake other than their entertainment.

It's also worth noting that a 1% chance of something terrible happening to one person is arguably a much higher risk than a 10% chance of a number of people having a mild problem. As others noted, it is not easy being in the position the schools are in right now.

The good news is that if there's no basketball you can always read a book or a newspaper or something.[/quote]

No, I said leave it up to the kids and their families if they want to play. Opt in and sign a waiver acknowledging there is some risk though appears minimal at this point...or opt out. I said either was fine. I'm at just as much risk as the players, probably way more where I work. I work with people from all over, coming in and out everyday and masks/distancing are often not possible (obviously I do it when I can). I realize there's some risk, I take my precautions...the players are in much better shape than I am. My father died suddenly from a heart attack in his 40's. I'm more at risk and I show up at work everyday. And if I was a major athlete, I'd obviously play if I'm going to work now. If the athletes are risking the potential cardiac issues from COVID, so are we at work. Don't get me wrong of course it's concerning that it may have a harmful effect on the heart. But we still need to know more. We all have our health at stake. I already have refused to watch a second of the NFL, MLB, or NBA. I'll be sad if college hoops doesn't happen but it's not the end of the world. If the kids are really worried, have them opt out. Don't see what's unreasonable about this.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400151]No one has all the answers, especially me. I'm just asking that we be very very careful not to make the response to this much worse than the actual virus itself. We don't react this way with other things that have risks albeit small ones. And even if the cardiac inflammation does occur more than we thought in healthy athletes...has anyone studied if it's permanent or not? For all we know, it can be very temporary while the body fights the virus off. There's a lot we still don't know. Why not have student athletes sign COVID disclosures so schools cannot be held liable? This places risk on the individual and not a huge university. It also makes it clear: either sign that you want to play despite risks (there are plenty of other risks except COVID) or simply opt-out because you are concerned. I would not fault an athlete either way. Should be personal decision. If I'm trying to make most of my college years and perhaps chance at playing professionally, I'm taking my chances here. Just me.[/quote]

If only it were just you.
 
Not sure what you mean? Lawmanfan implied that I want to put players at risk, because I have no skin in the game and it's just entertainment. I pointed out how silly that was given that where I work and with my family history, I'm at much, much higher risk and that I'd play if I was a major college athlete. I come into contact with bodily fluids, people without masks, etc. on a regular basis. No one is required to get a negative test before coming to work either. I believe our athletes will be tested regularly and they are in much better shape than any of us are, yet many of us work in person right now. I'm in pretty good shape, but can't compete with an elite 18-21 yr old clearly. The implication was that they're at more risk when it's the exact opposite. By the way, hope this stuff doesn't get deleted. I think it's been civil and informative on both sides. I respect your opinions.
 
[quote="lawmanfan" post=400154][quote="ctstorm" post=400150]

Well, at least you have moved past the "EVER" standard..[/quote]

Zaun's position is essentially "the hell with the risk to the kids, I want to watch basketball."

Maybe the question of risk should be left to the students, parents, medical community and the schools who are responsible for the well-being of their students (not just student-athletes) and staff - instead of the fans who have nothing at stake other than their entertainment.

It's also worth noting that a 1% chance of something terrible happening to one person is arguably a much higher risk than a 10% chance of a number of people having a mild problem. As others noted, it is not easy being in the position the schools are in right now.

The good news is that if there's no basketball you can always read a book or a newspaper or something.[/quote]
All of you that are being critical of Zaun for his opinion that carries absolutely no weight on the situation should redirect your criticism on CMA , Mike Cragg and the University President for allowing the players to play if you feel that strongly about it. Fact is in football and basketball knowing the risks almost ALL of the student athletes have chosen to play so if unlike Zaun you are not happy about that then don't watch what you all seem to feel will be carnage.
 
Nailed it Bama...my opinion doesn't affect or impact a thing about our program or any college kid for that matter. I simply said kids should have the right to opt-in knowing the risks or opt-out because they're nervous. How you can think that's wrong speaks to personal biases. People tend to vote with their feet, not what they say. And so far, looks like everyone plans on playing despite this. You can be upset about this but it's your choice to watch them play or not. I choose to watch them play.
 
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[quote="bamafan" post=400175][quote="lawmanfan" post=400154][quote="ctstorm" post=400150]

Well, at least you have moved past the "EVER" standard..[/quote]

Zaun's position is essentially "the hell with the risk to the kids, I want to watch basketball."

Maybe the question of risk should be left to the students, parents, medical community and the schools who are responsible for the well-being of their students (not just student-athletes) and staff - instead of the fans who have nothing at stake other than their entertainment.

It's also worth noting that a 1% chance of something terrible happening to one person is arguably a much higher risk than a 10% chance of a number of people having a mild problem. As others noted, it is not easy being in the position the schools are in right now.

The good news is that if there's no basketball you can always read a book or a newspaper or something.[/quote]
All of you that are being critical of Zaun for his opinion that carries absolutely no weight on the situation should redirect your criticism on CMA , Mike Cragg and the University President for allowing the players to play if you feel that strongly about it. Fact is in football and basketball knowing the risks almost ALL of the student athletes have chosen to play so if unlike Zaun you are not happy about that then don't watch what you all seem to feel will be carnage.[/quote]

Wow.

First off, NONE of our opinions posted on this site carry any weight with with this program. Not yours, Zaun's, mine, or just about anyone else who chooses to express their opinions/thoughts here. Pretty sure that everybody already understands that.

Secondly, every single one of us is held accountable for the thoughts/opinions we express here by the other posters on the site. If that is too much of a burden for you, or Zaun, or anyone else I'd suggest keeping those thoughts to yourself or posting them in a safer space where everyone agrees with you and sarcasm is outlawed.

Thirdly, pushing the responsibility for deciding what is safe and what is not onto 19-22 year old young men with no legal or medical background is just passing the buck. There is no way for them to know what steps should be taken, what has been taken, and what hasn't been done to ensure their safety representing a university. It's up to the grown ups in the room to make the tough decisions.

Lastly, I haven't seen one person suggest they shouldn't try to play the season. Just that its silly to do it without taking all reasonable precautions. Which it is. Its just as silly as telling an 18year old with visions of NBA fame and fortune in their heads to "just sign this waiver and you can play".

Cleary, Zaun wants them to play. He's worried that programs who have to worry about things like being sued by athletes that get sick or who infect their family members, so he's in favor of exempting the decision makers from liability so they will be less inclined to cancel the season. OK. He's entitled to his opinion. But that doesn't make it a good opinion.
Let me ask you this...If you went to see a doctor for a serious illness and he had you sign a waiver so he had zero liability for malpractice before he would diagnose or treat you, would you sign it, or go find another doctor?
 
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[quote="SJUFAN2" post=400188]
Thirdly, pushing the responsibility for deciding what is safe and what is not onto 19-22 year old young men with no legal or medical background is just passing the buck. There is no way for them to know what steps should be taken, what has been taken, and what hasn't been done to ensure their safety representing a university. It's up to the grown ups in the room to make the tough decisions.
[/quote]

Key point here (and not entirely inconsistent with Bamafan's point, either).
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=400157] I'm more at risk and I show up at work everyday. And if I was a major athlete, I'd obviously play if I'm going to work now. Don't see what's unreasonable about this.[/quote]

The unreasonable-ness is you are comparing "amateur" athletic endeavors to paid employment. And to take it a step further, if you know you will be getting paid to play eventually why put yourself at risk Also, if you know you are never going to be paid to play ever why put yourself at risk. The only guys who would benefit from playing at all are the guys trying to prove they are worthy of being paid to play in the future. It's a simple risk/return equation, not that I would expect every player to be able to think it through like this.

You have to go to work, I assume, to pay your bills in a field where you can't work from home. Comparing that to students who are asked to play hoops to generate revenue for their school for no compensation is very different. Especially since I'm pretty sure all schools will honour scholarships and they won't lose eligibility if they opt out.

The seasons going to go on because the schools need the money. I just don't understand why most of the players would accept the risk given their personal return.
 
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All opinion, all valid but for once I largely agree with Zaun. If you want to isolate, isolate.
I know many people who have caught Covid, including between 10 and 15 who work for me and most travel extensively to ship yards around the country in what the USG has deemed essential USN work. Fortunately, none have had to be hospitalized, and all but two currently under recovery quarantine have returned to work. Most, not all, of the medical people I have talked to and been consulted by feel the virus is essentially treatable and no risk to people who do not have pre-existing conditions.
I personally am disgusted with those that feel vulnerable and expect others, especially the young and very young to suffer because of their fear.
As I said, if you want to isolate, isolate, but who among you is concerned for the children that are supposed to be growing up and developing but instead are being isolated at such a crucial time in their lives? Six months of isolation in the development cycle of a child can be extremely harmful and none of us have any idea of those long term ramifications. How many of you are concerned how detrimental and unfair virtual schooling is to urban kids, many of whom don’t have the proper tools in school to get a competitive education, never mind at home. And I am not talking out of my a$$, this comes from many HS coaches I know who double as urban school teachers.
This is obviously not an easy situation but as a person who is certainly in the “vulnerable” category, I could not look myself in the mirror if I chose to have the young pay the price many of you are asking them to pay because of my fear. I will be smart going about my life concerning Covid but I will live it having the courage to accept that I will not be part of expecting those not in danger to potentially pay a far greater price.
One last comment on the “long term effects” of Covid. Anecdotes, maybes, and drawing conclusions from ridiculously small data samples do not warrant shutting down schools, etc. Those in my age group (70 in November) have lived through many of these “the world is ending” hysteria scenarios. We are still here........
 
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