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[quote="section10" post=387448]a comment in this thread stated that trump was the source of the birther issue.
google birther origin & its alleged origin are all over the place such as -
From the start of March 2008, rumors that Obama was born in Kenya before being flown to Hawaii were spread on conservative websites, with the suggestion that this would disqualify Obama from the presidency.[38] In April of that year, some supporters of Hillary Clinton circulated anonymous chain emails repeating the same rumor;[39] among them was an Iowa campaign volunteer, who was fired when the story emerged.[40][41] These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion, and birth certificate.[42][43][/quote]


Please, we all know that Trump was the one who gave the Birther rumor a life of its own. Continually referring to it. So if Hillary tells a lie, it is ok for Trump to continue to repeat it. I don't think so. However, you are free to believe whatever you choose.
 
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[quote="kranmars" post=387443][quote="SJUFAN2" post=387434][quote="fuchsia" post=387432]

SJUFAN2,
Your certitude that there will be an election in six months disappoints. Heed the words of convicted felon Michael Cohen,

“Indeed given my experience working for Mr. Trump I fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power, and this is why I agreed to appear before you today.”

Whether economic or medical, enough distress as a consequence of COVID19 provoking enough governors to declare martial law, with President Trump then entering the fray as heroic rescuer of our democracy, looms as one of many possible scripts to lose our liberty. With very few exceptions I do not believe that this outcome is desired by folks in the Redmen.com community. Tolerance and cooperation are the order of the day even as the name calling escalates. Illegitimus non carborundum est.[/quote]


That's a valid concern fuchsia, especially in light of Jared Kusher's comments this week. Still, I think that would be a bridge too far for many Magats. No doubt that some would welcome it, indeed are hoping for it to go down that way. But the vast majority of this nation isn't willing to end our democratic 'experiment' to protect a guy who holds the guiness book of world records for lying.

The reason I think that isn't likely to happen is that the states control the voting process. The constitution mandates the time and process but the states control it. I'm sure there are a few sycophantic "conservative" governors who would goosestep in unison under that scenario, but everyone else is going to have an election day in November.

I'm more concerned about the additional damage this regime will try to do on its way out the door than I am of them being able to flush the constitution and our republic down a gold plated toilet and seize power by preventing or ignoring the results of an election. Still, you are correct...its worth keeping an eye on because this group of criminals have yet to find the bottom when it comes to answering the question "how low can you go?"[/quote]

If we are waiting for a vaccine before we can open up the country, forget it. My daughter is not able to have vaccines. After her GBS, vaccines are a no go for her.

Also, I work with NYC government with the agencies that oversee social services and homeless. And those domestic abuse cases have increased because predators are at home, with no income, and free reign. The police do not answer domestic violence calls anywhere nearly as much as they did.

Alcoholism and drug addiction has increased. You can buy your liquor, but you cannot get to an AA meeting.

Also, I have very close family in the medical field. They tell me the numbers are inflated. Dr. Birx even said COVID is being checked off. Plus those family members have been part of the hydroxychloroquine trials, with zinc, and their patients recovered extremely well.

And my 70 year old cousin, who had prior heart conditions, and was not a vent no less (the way they throw people on vents are a disgrace by the way) just came home after a 2 month stay in the hospital. And we was treated with hydroxychloroquine.

Yes, I am a Trump supporter. So what. I guess my posts are rantings of a modern day fascist. I am done with this thread.[/quote]

Who said we need a vaccine to reopen? Can we at least have testing widely available before declaring this over and spiking the football?

I have family and neighbors in healthcare and in the CDC/FDA. They disagree with what yours are telling you. Not that it matters or proves anything.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=387450]Michael Cohen has proven to be incapable of telling the truth, and even more incapable of being trusted. Certainly the mere fact that Trump had a relationship with Cohen does not speak well of him. Short of that, I would not trust anything that comes out of Cohen's mouth. He should just be happy he is out of jail.[/quote]

Really? SDNY thinks he told the truth. They sent him to prison based on his honesty. They have an unindicted co-conspirator waiting to be prosecuted based on his testimony as well.

Trump lies everytime he opens his mouth. 17000+ times and counting in 3 years. Cohen was his personal fixer. To imply Trump is more credible than Cohen is laughable.

Let's see Trump or anyone in this administration put their hand on bible and testify under oath with the weight of perjury charges for lying in court or in congress. Until then, it's probably not a great idea to be calling others truthfulness into question.
 
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EVERYONE PLEASE STOP.
Unfortunately this thread which was supposed to be an informative thread only has completely gone off the rails and has turned into an ugly discourse with name calling, finger pointing, tensions rising and just bringing out the worst in those participating.
When SJUFAN2 started this thread he specifically asked that we keep it informative, lets please all try to stick to that principle and forget what was said in the past on this or other threads. If not it will have to be shut down very quickly and no one wants that. We should be able to share our information about the virus without this turning into a political thread.
Thank you all very much.
 
[quote="panther2" post=387452][quote="section10" post=387448]a comment in this thread stated that trump was the source of the birther issue.
google birther origin & its alleged origin are all over the place such as -
From the start of March 2008, rumors that Obama was born in Kenya before being flown to Hawaii were spread on conservative websites, with the suggestion that this would disqualify Obama from the presidency.[38] In April of that year, some supporters of Hillary Clinton circulated anonymous chain emails repeating the same rumor;[39] among them was an Iowa campaign volunteer, who was fired when the story emerged.[40][41] These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion, and birth certificate.[42][43][/quote]


Please, we all know that Trump was the one who gave the Birther rumor a life of its own. Continually referring to it. So if Hillary tells a lie, it is ok for Trump to continue to repeat it. I don't think so. However, you are free to believe whatever you choose.[/quote]

The subject was pretty much a 2008 subject that had no impact or significance in the 2016 election, and was already beaten to death when Trump resurrected it. While the country of origin is relevant when someone is running for office, 8 years later has little importance. What could possibly come out of it, even if true?

I'm much more concerned about sovereignty pf the United States, how in competitive markets the US must tend to our own needs first and foremost, not competing nations. I believe terrorism is an evil which must be repelled with the full force of our authority and military when necessary. I don't believe that "Christians have done far worse than Islamic terrorists" I believe abortion is a crime against humanity, but you don't have to. I believe US allies pay their fair share for Nato. I also believe in protecting the environment, but that we cannot have more stringent measures imposed upon the US as compared to India or China. I also don't like phonies espousing mother earth who travel in private jets and drive gas guzzling escalades.

I didn't agree with lifting sanctions on Cuba, a brutal dictatorial regime, when it appeared that communism was on its last legs. Cubans who escaped from Cuba just as the door closed overwhelmingly agree with this position.

I did disagree with the Iran nuclear deal. If anything, the Iranian assets that were frozen should have been released to them once they demonstrated they were holding up their end of the bargain, and not by delivering literallly pallets of US Dollars in cash under the cover of darkness so that US citizens may never find that out.

Truth be told, I believe in many democratic ideals. However, I switched parties when I realized that nothing was being done to improve education in the worst performing school districts, when the poorest were allowed to wallow in multi-generational poverty at the taxpayer's expense. I despise politicians that refuse to inflame their base by telling them that personal responsibility.

You see, I disrespect some of the business practices that Trump used that were perfectly legal, but very distasteful to me. On the other hand I respect his lifelong honed skill as a master negotiator who will come out with the best deal possible in most circumstances.

This thread will be locked soon.

On the subject of Covid, I believe that business must reopen sooner than we all would like, simply because we cannot literally afford for it not to.
 
Just two cents but under normal circumstances I know Politics is a dicey subject for sure. But we are in some unprecedented times. If there was ever a time to allow some leeway and let the conversation go here on the board I think now is a time.
 
[quote="panther2" post=387451]What I stated was the border from China was not closed. In was only closed to Chinese Nationals. American citizens and others were allowed to enter the country after January 30th without being quarantined. I know this because a high school classmate of mine, has a son in law who returned from a trip to China in late February and infected his family.

Over 40,000 people entered the US after the border was supposedly closed. Italy and Spain were two of the hardest hit countries in the beginning and there were flight coming to America from these countries.[/quote]

I respect you and like you, but that was not what you said. If we want to speak retroactively on how decisions panned out, that's fine, but no one was calling for more stringent travel restrictions than the one's Trump proposed at the end of January. In fact, the opposite occurred, he was crucified as racist against Chinese.

Unfortunately Panther, this is what you stated, and that is what I took exception to This is your unedited post, with the statement I responded to was simply not correct.

Your post:
::

The United States has 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the deaths from the coronavirus. Something is very wrong with this equation. If you take credit during the good times, you have to take responsibility when things go wrong. This situation went bad when it was not taken seriously in January and February. [It was labeled a hoax and fake news. Intelligence agencies and Medical Professionals sounded warnings but no action was taken until the middle of March.

It is now April 20th and I am watching VP Pence talk about getting tests out to the states. Political ideology aside, the response to this Pandemic has been a total disaster. The death toll in the United States has doubled in the past week.

I do not believe that any rational thinking human being can say that this administration has handled the Pandemic in a responsible and successful manner.
 
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We have no reliable statistics from China, Iran, etc.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=387465][quote="panther2" post=387451]What I stated was the border from China was not closed. In was only closed to Chinese Nationals. American citizens and others were allowed to enter the country after January 30th without being quarantined. I know this because a high school classmate of mine, has a son in law who returned from a trip to China in late February and infected his family.

Over 40,000 people entered the US after the border was supposedly closed. Italy and Spain were two of the hardest hit countries in the beginning and there were flight coming to America from these countries.[/quote]

I respect you and like you, but that was not what you said. If we want to speak retroactively on how decisions panned out, that's fine, but no one was calling for more stringent travel restrictions than the one's Trump proposed at the end of January. In fact, the opposite occurred, he was crucified as racist against Chinese.

Unfortunately Panther, this is what you stated, and that is what I took exception to This is your unedited post, with the statement I responded to was simply not correct.

Your post:
::

The United States has 4% of the worlds population and 25% of the deaths from the coronavirus. Something is very wrong with this equation. If you take credit during the good times, you have to take responsibility when things go wrong. This situation went bad when it was not taken seriously in January and February. [It was labeled a hoax and fake news. Intelligence agencies and Medical Professionals sounded warnings but no action was taken until the middle of March.

It is now April 20th and I am watching VP Pence talk about getting tests out to the states. Political ideology aside, the response to this Pandemic has been a total disaster. The death toll in the United States has doubled in the past week.

I do not believe that any rational thinking human being can say that this administration has handled the Pandemic in a responsible and successful manner.[/quote]



Thanks for reposting this. It was not political, it was just a statement of the facts at that time. It had nothing to do with being a Democrat or Republican, just that the current administration was unprepared to deal with the situation. If it had happened during the Bush, Clinton, or Obama administrations I would have said the same thing.

Trump's obsession with Obama caused him and his administration to ignore the Pandemic manual he was given, yes the same guidelines that McConnell said were not given before backtracking. He also disbanded the Pandemic Response team. In his haste to try to write Obama out of history, he caused damage.

Sen. Cronyn of Texas voted against the Affordable Care Act on numerous occasions. Now he is urging residents of Texas to apply for Obamacare, smh. Obama made mistakes as President. However, Trump and the Republicans blind obsession with removing all things Obama has hurt this country.

Now, this was definitely political. Henceforth, I will attempt to keep my comments about basketball.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=387416]

One fact for certain, is that since January 2018, my 401K which is 100% invested in equities, had grown by 80.5%. Even with the downturn, it's up since then by 56%. That's a better 3 year performance of anything in the prior 8 years. Great indeed![/quote]


2 points on that. Yes we've done well the last few years with our investments, but how much did it grow between March 2009 and Jan 2016, maybe not at the same rate but it was strong enough. Don't forget 2013 was the best market since 1995, including the last 3, and 2018 the worst since 2008.

And 2 everyone knows that the stock market and investment returns are so far removed from the economic health of the nation now they don't even speak the same language. May mean something to you and I but to 80-90% of the country it is immaterial. You and I are not spending our returns to help the economy. We're saving for our future rightfully so, but it means sweet FA to my plumber or the non union parochial school teacher and forget about those in the service industries.

While MJM and his ilk keep their clients rich, the companies they invest in no longer even care about their own employees much less the balance of the nation. It's all about shareholder equity in lieu of any social responsibility. The grass is green in my backyard too. Who cares that the bulk of the country is on fire just outside my fence. NIMBY forever. (you can take that as not in my backyard but I mean it as not in my bank yield - editorial license).

PS go back a few posts and fix your terminology. I believe you wrote (total) national debt when you meant (annual) national deficit. But Trump's average budget deficit over the 3 full budget years of his presidency is $1,011 billion. Obamas over his 2nd term (after recovery from the 2008 fiscal crisis) $618 million. The national debt grows under every president, besides Clinton's second term of course. But much of that is of course made up of snowballing debt payments.

Not arguing all your points nor any animus felt nor interest in debating liberal vs. conservative positions, not on this board at least. No one's changing anyone's minds on this hoops forum. Just pointing out some inconsistencies.
 
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Understand this topic will get immediately locked and that is fine and expected, but the idea that we should support a President so long as our 401(k)s have grown during his term (mine has too) is offensive and against any Catholic (whether Vincentian, Dominican, Jesuit or other) belief. A vote for Trump is a vote condoning or at a minimum tolerating racism and xenophobia; enough said. Character matters and he has none. Sorry guys, I had to speak my peace after the corona virus threads got locked. My last political post (fingers crossed).
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=387480]Understand this topic will get immediately locked and that is fine and expected, but the idea that we should support a President so long as our 401(k)s have grown during his term (mine has too) is offensive and against any Catholic (whether Vincentian, Dominican, Jesuit or other) belief. A vote for Trump is a vote condoning or at a minimum tolerating racism and xenophobia; enough said. Character matters and he has none. Sorry guys, I had to speak my peace after the corona virus threads got locked. My last political post (fingers crossed).[/quote]
Not unlike most, if not all, politicians - left and right.
 
The board seems to want an outlet for political discussion. I would agree with Moose's suggestion that this is an extraordinary circumstance. The pandemic is a dominant factor in everyone of our lives. We are, to a large extent, at the mercy of our leaders who are divided by party on this issue. Tough to have an apolitical conversation about Covid-19.

Maybe create a thread and let it go? When the pandemic is over, shut it down and return to all ball. Just a suggestion.
 
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No, he is unlike most politicians, both left and right! He cares about nothing but getting re-elected and the cost in lives or political casualties is meaningless to him.
 
I voted for him the first time. Had my reasons which I stand by at the time. People vote for their candidate for many reasons. There are people I know who will only vote for a candidate if they are Anti Abortion and those who vote only the other way. That drives me nuts. Things I can tolerate about Trump things that are totally overblown by the media since day one and there are things he’s just an asshole for. I don’t blame anyone if they are voting for him. That being said and only a couple people know but I’m not voting for him this time. Just my own personal choice. Both parties are a disaster
 
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