COVID-19 Updates

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[quote="Class of 72" post=387381][quote="Knight" post=387343][quote="Knight" post=387281]I heard a report this morning,
COVID-19
More than 84,000 people have died in the U.S.
Of the total, 459 of the deaths are attributed to those under the age of 35,
973 between 35-45.
Seems like the focus to “protect” should be addressed to the elderly and infirm.
Let the economy return to normal.[/quote]

1.8% of the deaths attributed to those under 45.[/quote]


To be objective, the only reason the United States statistics look as bad as they do is because of 5 or 6 democratic run states that not only mismanaged their own state budgets but they mismanaged the pandemic response and they are now refusing to reopen their economies further digging their economic health into the ground.
I always find it ironic that civil servants who never had a real job on the production end of the economy deciding how long to keep the economy closed. They will always continue to be paid for producing nothing.
Entire countries closer to China have controlled the spread of the virus better than New York.
The island of Taiwan, which is 100 miles from mainland China—the outbreak’s origin—has reported only 440 cases of Covid-19, and just seven deaths.[/quote]

There is nothing "objective" about that post. Nada, zip, zero.

You are comparing the results of entire COUNTRIES who had a cohesive organized NATIONAL approach built around testing, contact tracing, and isolation of infected to how individual states here were forced to deal with this. All so you could make a political attack on Democrat Governors about how they handle their budgets.

If you were truly being "objective", and not a cultist, you'd be asking why our federal response has been virtually non-existent, completely lacking cohesive messaging... and why wasn't it similar to those countries closer to China who haven't had the casualties we have had?
On day one in S.Korea the president pulled together the top medical professionals, manufacturing execs and tech companies to devise a response built around testing, contact tracing and isolation for infected citizens. Its almost like they had a Pandemic Response Playbook sitting there waiting to be put into use...

Here we got:


"No thanks WHO, we don't need testing kits"
"it's nothing to worry about."
"There are 15 cases, soon it will be zero."
"States are on their own on how to deal with this, and for getting PPE and testing sorted out."
"Defense Production act? Nah...we don't need that."
"Federal Stockpile of Ventilators and PPE? That's not for States use. Its ours."
"It will go away when it warms up."
"Take hydroxychloroquine."
"No, inject disinfectant or put a UV light into your body instead."
"it's going to magically go away."
Etc
Etc
Etc

We know that nothing short of divine intervention can help a cultist see the truth and change their mind, but thankfully for the rest of us, there is an election in 6 months and we can hold those responsible to account for their choices and inactivity.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=387386]SJUFAN2, I am absolutely saying this was politicized. If common sense was used here, most would be getting back to work by now with new regulations to help prevent an uptick. They would be concerned about the economy. Let me preface this by saying that I'm not some crazed Trumpite with a big MAGA flag and talking about conspiracy theories. Trump is arrogant and he cannot speak well at all. But, that being said, the one thing that he 100% deserves credit for is a booming and record-setting economy. It was the crown jewel of his campaign. Democrats were very very nervous about this which is why Bill Maher actively rooted for the economy to collapse. Now it did. Obviously the collapse wasn't some conspiracy, but keeping the economy from breathing still at this point when the worst is clearly over reeks of politics. The choice to keep everything closed is political. Georgia was reopened in late April and they are fine. We need to stop acting like this is something fatal to most everyday people. It's potentially fatal if you're over 65 (most are retired anyway) and if you have conditions. If you fall in those groups then by all means quarantine yourselves. But if you are not, it's time to stop living not to get sick. We all get sick and we all fight this stuff off. This is not something that will significantly impact the vast majority of people. Remember, we live in a country of over 300 MILLION. None of us sell our cars because we're scared to get into a car accident. It's call calculated risk and we used to be fine with it. Apparently now we need to let something that's no worse than a cough or headache for most people who get it ruin our lives permanently. Sorry, not buying it.[/quote]

If Common sense was used? If common sense was used you'd listen to the people who are experts on infectious diseases.

As for his booming economy:
Obama took the Stock Market from 6500 to 20,000 in 6 years with an antagonistic congress opposing everything he tried to do along the way.
Trump rode that upswing and to his credit didn't do anything to mess it up.
Obama took unemployment from 10+% to 4.7%, trump continued that trend from 4.7 to 3.6%.

Trump didn't build the economy. Like his wealth, he inherited it.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=387391][quote="Mike Zaun" post=387390]Just read an article from a DR in Tennessee and she said it's estimated that contracting and dying from COVID is about the same odds as dying in a car accident. We used to be in a place where we took calculated risks just 3 short months ago. Now everyone is freaking out and California says they won't ever reopen unless there's a cure. I mean it's real fantasy stuff now. This is like science fiction. I also heard a good line...do you know a healthy person with no complications who tested positive and died? You'd be hardpressed to find one. Now, do you know someone who lost their job? You probably know several like I do and there will be many more the longer this goes. If you know way more people who lost jobs than healthy people under 65 who died from coronavirus then that is a sign things have gone too far. We don't want anyone to die from this obviously, but if it's not COVID, a flu or cold can easily kill an elderly person too. The risk for the overwhelming majority of the population is very low.[/quote]

Roughly 40K Americans die in car accidents per year. Covid-19 has killed over 85K in just the past two months.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year[/quote]

I know it has been mentioned before, but those numbers are inflated. The majority dying now is being signed off as a COVID death. Even with a string of underlying health issues. That is not what normally happens.

The amount of deaths from cancer, hear attacks, diabetes, etc. is extremely low since COVID. Did I miss the cure for those diseases?

And there are issues of domestic violence and child abuse which is on the rise. That alone can is a reason wonder about the marvels of quaretinne.

And before a snarky comment about not caring about others, I have had family with COVID, and I have a daughter who was in the hospital with an autoimmune.

I am in the time to open the country up. Responsibly, but it is time.
 
[quote="kranmars" post=387400][quote="JohnnyFan" post=387391][quote="Mike Zaun" post=387390]Just read an article from a DR in Tennessee and she said it's estimated that contracting and dying from COVID is about the same odds as dying in a car accident. We used to be in a place where we took calculated risks just 3 short months ago. Now everyone is freaking out and California says they won't ever reopen unless there's a cure. I mean it's real fantasy stuff now. This is like science fiction. I also heard a good line...do you know a healthy person with no complications who tested positive and died? You'd be hardpressed to find one. Now, do you know someone who lost their job? You probably know several like I do and there will be many more the longer this goes. If you know way more people who lost jobs than healthy people under 65 who died from coronavirus then that is a sign things have gone too far. We don't want anyone to die from this obviously, but if it's not COVID, a flu or cold can easily kill an elderly person too. The risk for the overwhelming majority of the population is very low.[/quote]

Roughly 40K Americans die in car accidents per year. Covid-19 has killed over 85K in just the past two months.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year[/quote]

I know it has been mentioned before, but those numbers are inflated. The majority dying now is being signed off as a COVID death. Even with a string of underlying health issues. That is not what normally happens.

The amount of deaths from cancer, hear attacks, diabetes, etc. is extremely low since COVID. Did I miss the cure for those diseases?

And there are issues of domestic violence and child abuse which is on the rise. That alone can is a reason wonder about the marvels of quaretinne.

And before a snarky comment about not caring about others, I have had family with COVID, and I have a daughter who was in the hospital with an autoimmune.

I am in the time to open the country up. Responsibly, but it is time.[/quote]

Stark reality. Keep the country closed, businesses continue to fail, unemployment rises, stock market after a brief recovery crashes again, violence in the streets rise in unemployment, protests and civil discord ramps up.

This plays into the hands of those who will do anything to seize power in Washington.

This latest Democratic bill of $3 trillion is a joke. There are supposedly more references in it to Cannabis than unemployment (seriously, something like 69 to 57).

Opening or closing the country has very little to do with right or wrong. Keep it closed, keep issuing stimulus, bloat the national debt (which was projected at $966 billion for 2021, lower than 2020) before this mess. Bloat the national debt, taxes will have to go up. Taxes go up, it will be mostly attacking the wealthy, upping tp tier taxes by 5-10% at least, which always plays to the working class but will do nothing to diminish the national debt.

There are a lot of good plans in place now, like concentrating testing in hotspot poorer areas, where infection rates are off the charts.

Businesses can reopen gradually, offices can reopen less than full, so can restaurants, etc.

Right now, many low wage workers are getting much more in unemployment than they were working, and they are loving it. Many if not most will ride out unemployment benefits like this even if they have an opportunity to return to work at wages below unemployment.

Some may say these events are unintended, I would be to differ. They are carefully calculated to blow up our economy, keep unemployment high, crush the stock market, etc. All of those events are always fertile ground to change administrations.

Lost in this is a charge of sexual assault by Joe Biden that is much more detailed, graphic, and credible than the one that dominated the Kavanagh hearings. With Kavanagh, we had an unsubstantiated event that had no date, no place, no witnesses, and no sexual contact. In that case, all we heard was how we had to believe this victim, that because she said it it must have occurred, etc etc etc. Now we are told by people like Pelosi that we know Joe Biden so that's reason enough to believe him. That's exactly the kind of threats that powerful sexual predators would tell their victims - "No one will believe you because of who I am and because of who you are." It's the classic making the victim the criminal.

Lost in all of this is how Flynn was setup by the FBI, who knew he committed no crime, to entrap him into lying, and then use that threat to try to get him to testify against the President of Russian collusion or any number of things. LAst week Joe Biden, in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, went on record as saying he was not part of any discussions to illegally unmask Flynn by leaking classified information to the media. The list of those requesting he be unmasked was declassified this week, and surprise surprise, Joe Biden's name was on it.

I stopped speaking about politics until you left wing ideologues start spewing shit against Washington. Maybe you don't really know what's going on, or maybe it's your failure to want to believe anything except what is reported by the mainstream media, which are agents of the far left wing of the party. Any serious facts of some of the simply criminal things the prior administration and leading Democrats have done today, where they are caught red handed, simply does not get reported. Adam Schiff's ridiculous impeachment hearing about Russian collusion by Trump unearthed not a single fact tying Trump to a Russian attempt to tilt the election.

I am not a right wing pawn. I have great conversations off line with Democrats like Chicago Days and Fuchsia. They are entitled to their opinions, but are reasonable in dialogue and we always find common ground.

If you are going to speak about mistakes in Washington, why don't you mention that idiot running NYC, who was trying to sell ventilators and stockpiled PPP to the highest bidder before this all began, or his assertion that Covid was a Republican scam that it was less dangerous than the common cold. Why not speak about Cuomo shipping off Covid patients to nursing homes, where that act killed hundreds if not thousands of healthy senior citizens.

You are all buying horseshit, because EVERYONE knows that the economic effects of Covid will affect nearly everyone, while the pathological effects a much smaller number. By continuing lockdowns against commons sense, intelligent gradual reopening, you will crush the economy with no chance of recovering by November, which will lead to a win by a guy who would not have won the Democratic primaries if the DNC didn't force everyone against Sanders and to back Biden. We may then elect our first President with diminished mental capacity at best, and moderate to advanced dementia at worst.
 
[quote="kranmars" post=387400][quote="JohnnyFan" post=387391][quote="Mike Zaun" post=387390]Just read an article from a DR in Tennessee and she said it's estimated that contracting and dying from COVID is about the same odds as dying in a car accident. We used to be in a place where we took calculated risks just 3 short months ago. Now everyone is freaking out and California says they won't ever reopen unless there's a cure. I mean it's real fantasy stuff now. This is like science fiction. I also heard a good line...do you know a healthy person with no complications who tested positive and died? You'd be hardpressed to find one. Now, do you know someone who lost their job? You probably know several like I do and there will be many more the longer this goes. If you know way more people who lost jobs than healthy people under 65 who died from coronavirus then that is a sign things have gone too far. We don't want anyone to die from this obviously, but if it's not COVID, a flu or cold can easily kill an elderly person too. The risk for the overwhelming majority of the population is very low.[/quote]

Roughly 40K Americans die in car accidents per year. Covid-19 has killed over 85K in just the past two months.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year[/URL][/quote]

I know it has been mentioned before, but those numbers are inflated. The majority dying now is being signed off as a COVID death. Even with a string of underlying health issues. That is not what normally happens.

The amount of deaths from cancer, hear attacks, diabetes, etc. is extremely low since COVID. Did I miss the cure for those diseases?

And there are issues of domestic violence and child abuse which is on the rise. That alone can is a reason wonder about the marvels of quaretinne.

And before a snarky comment about not caring about others, I have had family with COVID, and I have a daughter who was in the hospital with an autoimmune.

I am in the time to open the country up. Responsibly, but it is time.[/quote]

1) Not inflated...Under reported. Even FAUX News has reported this. Fauci just testified in congress two days ago that the numbers are higher than what's reported.
[URL]https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-coronavirus-deaths-underreported-cdc[/URL]
2) Only deaths being reported as COVID are those in hospitals and some nursing homes and who tested positive.
3) Do you have a link for the Cancer, heart attack, etc death rates? Would like to see it.
4) What does domestic abuse and child abuse rates have to do with how we handle a pandemic?
5) Yes, it is time to start easing restrictions and opening up in a "responsible" manner. How do you suggest we do that? What do you consider "responsible".
 
The best way forward is for Republicans and Democrats remember that they are Americans first. I’m tired of all the BS trying to gain political advantage in fixing the economy and taking measures to protect us against the virus.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=387405][quote="kranmars" post=387400][quote="JohnnyFan" post=387391][quote="Mike Zaun" post=387390]Just read an article from a DR in Tennessee and she said it's estimated that contracting and dying from COVID is about the same odds as dying in a car accident. We used to be in a place where we took calculated risks just 3 short months ago. Now everyone is freaking out and California says they won't ever reopen unless there's a cure. I mean it's real fantasy stuff now. This is like science fiction. I also heard a good line...do you know a healthy person with no complications who tested positive and died? You'd be hardpressed to find one. Now, do you know someone who lost their job? You probably know several like I do and there will be many more the longer this goes. If you know way more people who lost jobs than healthy people under 65 who died from coronavirus then that is a sign things have gone too far. We don't want anyone to die from this obviously, but if it's not COVID, a flu or cold can easily kill an elderly person too. The risk for the overwhelming majority of the population is very low.[/quote]

Roughly 40K Americans die in car accidents per year. Covid-19 has killed over 85K in just the past two months.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year[/URL][/quote]

I know it has been mentioned before, but those numbers are inflated. The majority dying now is being signed off as a COVID death. Even with a string of underlying health issues. That is not what normally happens.

The amount of deaths from cancer, hear attacks, diabetes, etc. is extremely low since COVID. Did I miss the cure for those diseases?

And there are issues of domestic violence and child abuse which is on the rise. That alone can is a reason wonder about the marvels of quaretinne.

And before a snarky comment about not caring about others, I have had family with COVID, and I have a daughter who was in the hospital with an autoimmune.

I am in the time to open the country up. Responsibly, but it is time.[/quote]

1) Not inflated...Under reported. Even FAUX News has reported this. Fauci just testified in congress two days ago that the numbers are higher than what's reported.
[URL]https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-coronavirus-deaths-underreported-cdc[/URL]
2) Only deaths being reported as COVID are those in hospitals and some nursing homes and who tested positive.
3) Do you have a link for the Cancer, heart attack, etc death rates? Would like to see it.
4) What does domestic abuse and child abuse rates have to do with how we handle a pandemic?
5) Yes, it is time to start easing restrictions and opening up in a "responsible" manner. How do you suggest we do that? What do you consider "responsible".[/quote]

1) I did work in hospitals prior to what I am doing now, which is working with hospitals. What Kransmar is referring to has not been verified, but speculated that hospitals who are receiving hospital assistance for treating Covid patients may be reclassifying certain patients with no healthcare coverage whatsoever or where the government assistance to hospitals for treating Covid patients is greater than normally reimbursed, to do so. Not proven though. No one is disputing that those infected and those that have actually died of Covid is greater than reported. Until recently nursing homes did not have to report Covid deaths unless they reached a certain number for example.

2) Covid deaths are reported as only those tested positive for Covid. They are not doing post mortems on those suspected of dying of Covid because of the health risk and the sheer numbers. If you tested positive but were not hospitalized and subsequently died, there is the possibility that these were not reported, but that is a much smaller number, since the symptoms were so extreme, most very ill went to hospitals.

3) Mortality rates by pathological conditions are well published. From the CDC website:

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 647,457
Cancer: 599,108
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
Diabetes: 83,564
Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

4) Domestic abuse and harassment cases have increased significantly during the shutter at home policies. People cooped up, spending too much time isolated end up in more confrontations, some of which turn physical, not to mention those in severe financial duress as a result of Covid.

5) I agree with you on this point. That's where responsible and ethical people of both political parties can work together better than they have been. There should be healthy disagreement between healthcare professionals and business leaders.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Beast of the East" post=387403]
Stark reality. Keep the country closed, businesses continue to fail, unemployment rises, stock market after a brief recovery crashes again, violence in the streets rise in unemployment, protests and civil discord ramps up.

This plays into the hands of those who will do anything to seize power in Washington.

This latest Democratic bill of $3 trillion is a joke. There are supposedly more references in it to Cannabis than unemployment (seriously, something like 69 to 57).

Opening or closing the country has very little to do with right or wrong. Keep it closed, keep issuing stimulus, bloat the national debt (which was projected at $966 billion for 2021, lower than 2020) before this mess. Bloat the national debt, taxes will have to go up. Taxes go up, it will be mostly attacking the wealthy, upping tp tier taxes by 5-10% at least, which always plays to the working class but will do nothing to diminish the national debt.

There are a lot of good plans in place now, like concentrating testing in hotspot poorer areas, where infection rates are off the charts.

Businesses can reopen gradually, offices can reopen less than full, so can restaurants, etc.

Right now, many low wage workers are getting much more in unemployment than they were working, and they are loving it. Many if not most will ride out unemployment benefits like this even if they have an opportunity to return to work at wages below unemployment.

Some may say these events are unintended, I would be to differ. They are carefully calculated to blow up our economy, keep unemployment high, crush the stock market, etc. All of those events are always fertile ground to change administrations.

Lost in this is a charge of sexual assault by Joe Biden that is much more detailed, graphic, and credible than the one that dominated the Kavanagh hearings. With Kavanagh, we had an unsubstantiated event that had no date, no place, no witnesses, and no sexual contact. In that case, all we heard was how we had to believe this victim, that because she said it it must have occurred, etc etc etc. Now we are told by people like Pelosi that we know Joe Biden so that's reason enough to believe him. That's exactly the kind of threats that powerful sexual predators would tell their victims - "No one will believe you because of who I am and because of who you are." It's the classic making the victim the criminal.

Lost in all of this is how Flynn was setup by the FBI, who knew he committed no crime, to entrap him into lying, and then use that threat to try to get him to testify against the President of Russian collusion or any number of things. LAst week Joe Biden, in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, went on record as saying he was not part of any discussions to illegally unmask Flynn by leaking classified information to the media. The list of those requesting he be unmasked was declassified this week, and surprise surprise, Joe Biden's name was on it.

I stopped speaking about politics until you left wing ideologues start spewing shit against Washington. Maybe you don't really know what's going on, or maybe it's your failure to want to believe anything except what is reported by the mainstream media, which are agents of the far left wing of the party. Any serious facts of some of the simply criminal things the prior administration and leading Democrats have done today, where they are caught red handed, simply does not get reported. Adam Schiff's ridiculous impeachment hearing about Russian collusion by Trump unearthed not a single fact tying Trump to a Russian attempt to tilt the election.

I am not a right wing pawn. I have great conversations off line with Democrats like Chicago Days and Fuchsia. They are entitled to their opinions, but are reasonable in dialogue and we always find common ground.

If you are going to speak about mistakes in Washington, why don't you mention that idiot running NYC, who was trying to sell ventilators and stockpiled PPP to the highest bidder before this all began, or his assertion that Covid was a Republican scam that it was less dangerous than the common cold. Why not speak about Cuomo shipping off Covid patients to nursing homes, where that act killed hundreds if not thousands of healthy senior citizens.

You are all buying horseshit, because EVERYONE knows that the economic effects of Covid will affect nearly everyone, while the pathological effects a much smaller number. By continuing lockdowns against commons sense, intelligent gradual reopening, you will crush the economy with no chance of recovering by November, which will lead to a win by a guy who would not have won the Democratic primaries if the DNC didn't force everyone against Sanders and to back Biden. We may then elect our first President with diminished mental capacity at best, and moderate to advanced dementia at worst.[/quote]

[img ]https://az705044.vo.msecnd.net/20170329/maga-tin-foil-hat.png[/img]
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=387409][quote="Beast of the East" post=387403]
Stark reality. Keep the country closed, businesses continue to fail, unemployment rises, stock market after a brief recovery crashes again, violence in the streets rise in unemployment, protests and civil discord ramps up.

This plays into the hands of those who will do anything to seize power in Washington.

This latest Democratic bill of $3 trillion is a joke. There are supposedly more references in it to Cannabis than unemployment (seriously, something like 69 to 57).

Opening or closing the country has very little to do with right or wrong. Keep it closed, keep issuing stimulus, bloat the national debt (which was projected at $966 billion for 2021, lower than 2020) before this mess. Bloat the national debt, taxes will have to go up. Taxes go up, it will be mostly attacking the wealthy, upping tp tier taxes by 5-10% at least, which always plays to the working class but will do nothing to diminish the national debt.

There are a lot of good plans in place now, like concentrating testing in hotspot poorer areas, where infection rates are off the charts.

Businesses can reopen gradually, offices can reopen less than full, so can restaurants, etc.

Right now, many low wage workers are getting much more in unemployment than they were working, and they are loving it. Many if not most will ride out unemployment benefits like this even if they have an opportunity to return to work at wages below unemployment.

Some may say these events are unintended, I would be to differ. They are carefully calculated to blow up our economy, keep unemployment high, crush the stock market, etc. All of those events are always fertile ground to change administrations.

Lost in this is a charge of sexual assault by Joe Biden that is much more detailed, graphic, and credible than the one that dominated the Kavanagh hearings. With Kavanagh, we had an unsubstantiated event that had no date, no place, no witnesses, and no sexual contact. In that case, all we heard was how we had to believe this victim, that because she said it it must have occurred, etc etc etc. Now we are told by people like Pelosi that we know Joe Biden so that's reason enough to believe him. That's exactly the kind of threats that powerful sexual predators would tell their victims - "No one will believe you because of who I am and because of who you are." It's the classic making the victim the criminal.

Lost in all of this is how Flynn was setup by the FBI, who knew he committed no crime, to entrap him into lying, and then use that threat to try to get him to testify against the President of Russian collusion or any number of things. LAst week Joe Biden, in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, went on record as saying he was not part of any discussions to illegally unmask Flynn by leaking classified information to the media. The list of those requesting he be unmasked was declassified this week, and surprise surprise, Joe Biden's name was on it.

I stopped speaking about politics until you left wing ideologues start spewing shit against Washington. Maybe you don't really know what's going on, or maybe it's your failure to want to believe anything except what is reported by the mainstream media, which are agents of the far left wing of the party. Any serious facts of some of the simply criminal things the prior administration and leading Democrats have done today, where they are caught red handed, simply does not get reported. Adam Schiff's ridiculous impeachment hearing about Russian collusion by Trump unearthed not a single fact tying Trump to a Russian attempt to tilt the election.

I am not a right wing pawn. I have great conversations off line with Democrats like Chicago Days and Fuchsia. They are entitled to their opinions, but are reasonable in dialogue and we always find common ground.

If you are going to speak about mistakes in Washington, why don't you mention that idiot running NYC, who was trying to sell ventilators and stockpiled PPP to the highest bidder before this all began, or his assertion that Covid was a Republican scam that it was less dangerous than the common cold. Why not speak about Cuomo shipping off Covid patients to nursing homes, where that act killed hundreds if not thousands of healthy senior citizens.

You are all buying horseshit, because EVERYONE knows that the economic effects of Covid will affect nearly everyone, while the pathological effects a much smaller number. By continuing lockdowns against commons sense, intelligent gradual reopening, you will crush the economy with no chance of recovering by November, which will lead to a win by a guy who would not have won the Democratic primaries if the DNC didn't force everyone against Sanders and to back Biden. We may then elect our first President with diminished mental capacity at best, and moderate to advanced dementia at worst.[/quote]

[img ]https://az705044.vo.msecnd.net/20170329/maga-tin-foil-hat.png[/img][/quote]

Great image!

One fact for certain, is that since January 2017, my 401K which is 100% invested in equities, had grown by 80.5%. Even with the downturn, it's up since then by 56%. That's a better 3 year performance of anything in the prior 8 years. Great indeed!
 
[URL]https://www.driverknowledge.com/car-accident-statistics/[/URL]

2 million drivers are in accidents that cause permanent disabilities/injuries every year. We are now up to 85,000 deaths from COVID. You need to put things in perspective in the broader sense. I'm not saying to sacrifice anyone 65+ I said you need to quarantine if you are. Chances are you do not have a job you need to worry about either if you are retired. Or if you do it's not one you need to rely on to put food on the table. Many people who are retired have plenty of cash and shutting down for 3,4,5, 6 months or even a year won't affect those people much financially. Some of us are worried we may not have jobs in our 30's which is when people are buying houses, getting married, having kids, etc. Huge things. So we need to get back to work or our jobs will be gone. Many have already lost them. Back to my earlier point...2 million people are permanently injured from car accidents every year. Do you hear anyone anywhere screaming from rooftops that everyone else is a serious danger and risk to them driving? No. Driving is a calculated risk, that's why. We understand that. We know getting into our cars that we will almost certainly be safe which is why we continue to do it. I realize COVID is contagious so that makes it different, but the risk really is similar. If you aren't worried about major injury in a car accident getting in a car, you should be able to take a calculated risk with COVID. 98% and likely more people do NOT die from this. It will go away and run its course...jobs may never come back. 65+ go quarantine and the rest of us should be back at work with precautions. But that's being reasonable, so when people tell us we need to kill the economy further to flip off Trump, that's politics. I represent a middle ground. Others are being authoritarian shutting everything down still.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=387425][URL]https://www.driverknowledge.com/car-accident-statistics/[/URL]

2 million drivers are in accidents that cause permanent disabilities/injuries every year. We are now up to 85,000 deaths from COVID. You need to put things in perspective in the broader sense. I'm not saying to sacrifice anyone 65+ I said you need to quarantine if you are. Chances are you do not have a job you need to worry about either if you are retired. Or if you do it's not one you need to rely on to put food on the table. Many people who are retired have plenty of cash and shutting down for 3,4,5, 6 months or even a year won't affect those people much financially. Some of us are worried we may not have jobs in our 30's which is when people are buying houses, getting married, having kids, etc. Huge things. So we need to get back to work or our jobs will be gone. Many have already lost them. Back to my earlier point...2 million people are permanently injured from car accidents every year. Do you hear anyone anywhere screaming from rooftops that everyone else is a serious danger and risk to them driving? No. Driving is a calculated risk, that's why. We understand that. We know getting into our cars that we will almost certainly be safe which is why we continue to do it. I realize COVID is contagious so that makes it different, but the risk really is similar. If you aren't worried about major injury in a car accident getting in a car, you should be able to take a calculated risk with COVID. 98% and likely more people do NOT die from this. It will go away and run its course...jobs may never come back. 65+ go quarantine and the rest of us should be back at work with precautions. But that's being reasonable, so when people tell us we need to kill the economy further to flip off Trump, that's politics. I represent a middle ground. Others are being authoritarian shutting everything down still.[/quote]

It's a silly "strawman" comparison but we can use it. Yes, there are measures used to limit auto fatalities and injuries.

You have to pass a test to be licensed to drive.
You have to have insurance to legally drive.
You are forced to wear seatbelts and have airbags in cars for safety.
Speed limits are set and enforced by local gov'ts to make roads safer.
Etc Etc.

All restrictions on driving to protect society as much as possible. And people like you use this comparison to justify ignoring medical professionals and wearing a mask in public. Staggering.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=387397][quote="Class of 72" post=387381][quote="Knight" post=387343][quote="Knight" post=387281]I heard a report this morning,
COVID-19
More than 84,000 people have died in the U.S.
Of the total, 459 of the deaths are attributed to those under the age of 35,
973 between 35-45.
Seems like the focus to “protect” should be addressed to the elderly and infirm.
Let the economy return to normal.[/quote]

1.8% of the deaths attributed to those under 45.[/quote]


To be objective, the only reason the United States statistics look as bad as they do is because of 5 or 6 democratic run states that not only mismanaged their own state budgets but they mismanaged the pandemic response and they are now refusing to reopen their economies further digging their economic health into the ground.
I always find it ironic that civil servants who never had a real job on the production end of the economy deciding how long to keep the economy closed. They will always continue to be paid for producing nothing.
Entire countries closer to China have controlled the spread of the virus better than New York.
The island of Taiwan, which is 100 miles from mainland China—the outbreak’s origin—has reported only 440 cases of Covid-19, and just seven deaths.[/quote]

There is nothing "objective" about that post. Nada, zip, zero.

You are comparing the results of entire COUNTRIES who had a cohesive organized NATIONAL approach built around testing, contact tracing, and isolation of infected to how individual states here were forced to deal with this. All so you could make a political attack on Democrat Governors about how they handle their budgets.

If you were truly being "objective", and not a cultist, you'd be asking why our federal response has been virtually non-existent, completely lacking cohesive messaging... and why wasn't it similar to those countries closer to China who haven't had the casualties we have had?
On day one in S.Korea the president pulled together the top medical professionals, manufacturing execs and tech companies to devise a response built around testing, contact tracing and isolation for infected citizens. Its almost like they had a Pandemic Response Playbook sitting there waiting to be put into use...

Here we got:


"No thanks WHO, we don't need testing kits"
"it's nothing to worry about."
"There are 15 cases, soon it will be zero."
"States are on their own on how to deal with this, and for getting PPE and testing sorted out."
"Defense Production act? Nah...we don't need that."
"Federal Stockpile of Ventilators and PPE? That's not for States use. Its ours."
"It will go away when it warms up."
"Take hydroxychloroquine."
"No, inject disinfectant or put a UV light into your body instead."
"it's going to magically go away."
Etc
Etc
Etc

We know that nothing short of divine intervention can help a cultist see the truth and change their mind, but thankfully for the rest of us, there is an election in 6 months and we can hold those responsible to account for their choices and inactivity.[/quote]

SJUFAN2,
Your certitude that there will be an election in six months disappoints. Heed the words of convicted felon Michael Cohen,

“Indeed given my experience working for Mr. Trump I fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power, and this is why I agreed to appear before you today.”

Whether economic or medical, enough distress as a consequence of COVID19 provoking enough governors to declare martial law, with President Trump then entering the fray as heroic rescuer of our democracy, looms as one of many possible scripts to lose our liberty. With very few exceptions I do not believe that this outcome is desired by folks in the Redmen.com community. Tolerance and cooperation are the order of the day even as the name calling escalates. Illegitimus non carborundum est.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=387432]

SJUFAN2,
Your certitude that there will be an election in six months disappoints. Heed the words of convicted felon Michael Cohen,

“Indeed given my experience working for Mr. Trump I fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power, and this is why I agreed to appear before you today.”

Whether economic or medical, enough distress as a consequence of COVID19 provoking enough governors to declare martial law, with President Trump then entering the fray as heroic rescuer of our democracy, looms as one of many possible scripts to lose our liberty. With very few exceptions I do not believe that this outcome is desired by folks in the Redmen.com community. Tolerance and cooperation are the order of the day even as the name calling escalates. Illegitimus non carborundum est.[/quote]


That's a valid concern fuchsia, especially in light of Jared Kusher's comments this week. Still, I think that would be a bridge too far for many Magats. No doubt that some would welcome it, indeed are hoping for it to go down that way. But the vast majority of this nation isn't willing to end our democratic 'experiment' to protect a guy who holds the guiness book of world records for lying.

The reason I think that isn't likely to happen is that the states control the voting process. The constitution mandates the time and process but the states control it. I'm sure there are a few sycophantic "conservative" governors who would goosestep in unison under that scenario, but everyone else is going to have an election day in November.

I'm more concerned about the additional damage this regime will try to do on its way out the door than I am of them being able to flush the constitution and our republic down a gold plated toilet and seize power by preventing or ignoring the results of an election. Still, you are correct...its worth keeping an eye on because this group of criminals have yet to find the bottom when it comes to answering the question "how low can you go?"
 
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Why is it necessary to resort to calling each other names because of political differences. In my lifetime I have voted for Republicans and Democrats, so I am not sure what that makes me.

I do not respect Bill or Hillary Clinton. After reading "Bailout" by Neil Barofsky, and seeing that Obama and his Treasury Secretary Timothy Geither allowed the same executives who caused the bank failure to collect bonuses from the money they were given, I rightfully questioned my support of Obama.

However, when I question or disagree with anything concerning Trump, I am labeled a left wing liberal. It is as if some are so vested in his Presidency, they refuse to see any shortcomings or flaws. This is very dangerous because then you are saying that he is omnipotent. In other words, "how dare you find fault with my God".

Our country is terribly divided right now and will stay that way until we, as a whole put our differences away and come together as one.

How did we get here, Trump started it with his "Birther" comments regarding Obama because he knew that this would appeal to a certain racist element in this country.

In conclusion, I love my country and am grateful for the opportunities that America has afforded me and my family. However, I have zero respect for the individual that is currently our President. This has nothing to do with party affiliation, I do not respect him as a man.
 
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[quote="SJUFAN2" post=387434][quote="fuchsia" post=387432]

SJUFAN2,
Your certitude that there will be an election in six months disappoints. Heed the words of convicted felon Michael Cohen,

“Indeed given my experience working for Mr. Trump I fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power, and this is why I agreed to appear before you today.”

Whether economic or medical, enough distress as a consequence of COVID19 provoking enough governors to declare martial law, with President Trump then entering the fray as heroic rescuer of our democracy, looms as one of many possible scripts to lose our liberty. With very few exceptions I do not believe that this outcome is desired by folks in the Redmen.com community. Tolerance and cooperation are the order of the day even as the name calling escalates. Illegitimus non carborundum est.[/quote]


That's a valid concern fuchsia, especially in light of Jared Kusher's comments this week. Still, I think that would be a bridge too far for many Magats. No doubt that some would welcome it, indeed are hoping for it to go down that way. But the vast majority of this nation isn't willing to end our democratic 'experiment' to protect a guy who holds the guiness book of world records for lying.

The reason I think that isn't likely to happen is that the states control the voting process. The constitution mandates the time and process but the states control it. I'm sure there are a few sycophantic "conservative" governors who would goosestep in unison under that scenario, but everyone else is going to have an election day in November.

I'm more concerned about the additional damage this regime will try to do on its way out the door than I am of them being able to flush the constitution and our republic down a gold plated toilet and seize power by preventing or ignoring the results of an election. Still, you are correct...its worth keeping an eye on because this group of criminals have yet to find the bottom when it comes to answering the question "how low can you go?"[/quote]

If we are waiting for a vaccine before we can open up the country, forget it. My daughter is not able to have vaccines. After her GBS, vaccines are a no go for her.

Also, I work with NYC government with the agencies that oversee social services and homeless. And those domestic abuse cases have increased because predators are at home, with no income, and free reign. The police do not answer domestic violence calls anywhere nearly as much as they did.

Alcoholism and drug addiction has increased. You can buy your liquor, but you cannot get to an AA meeting.

Also, I have very close family in the medical field. They tell me the numbers are inflated. Dr. Birx even said COVID is being checked off. Plus those family members have been part of the hydroxychloroquine trials, with zinc, and their patients recovered extremely well.

And my 70 year old cousin, who had prior heart conditions, and was not a vent no less (the way they throw people on vents are a disgrace by the way) just came home after a 2 month stay in the hospital. And we was treated with hydroxychloroquine.

Yes, I am a Trump supporter. So what. I guess my posts are rantings of a modern day fascist. I am done with this thread.
 
Kranmars, some of us just stay off certain threads or away from certain posters who seem phobic about listening. We still argue in private all the time, with less showboating and more listening than goes on in public, I believe.

I have been hearing about virtual AA meetings. My Columbia Drugs and Society Faculty Forum will be virtual for the first time next Tuesday. Since I am in Florida during hoops season, I am mostly a virtual fan. Keep on typing, Fuchsia
 
a comment in this thread stated that trump was the source of the birther issue.
google birther origin & its alleged origin are all over the place such as -
From the start of March 2008, rumors that Obama was born in Kenya before being flown to Hawaii were spread on conservative websites, with the suggestion that this would disqualify Obama from the presidency.[38] In April of that year, some supporters of Hillary Clinton circulated anonymous chain emails repeating the same rumor;[39] among them was an Iowa campaign volunteer, who was fired when the story emerged.[40][41] These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion, and birth certificate.[42][43]
 
Quite frankly Panther, despite the rules here to stay out of politics, you blew up the first Covid thread by thinking you had to enlighten everyone with your dissatisfaction of how the Trump administration "did nothing until Mid March". Up to then the thread was about the disease, not partisan politics.
 
Michael Cohen has proven to be incapable of telling the truth, and even more incapable of being trusted. Certainly the mere fact that Trump had a relationship with Cohen does not speak well of him. Short of that, I would not trust anything that comes out of Cohen's mouth. He should just be happy he is out of jail.
 
What I stated was the border from China was not closed. In was only closed to Chinese Nationals. American citizens and others were allowed to enter the country after January 30th without being quarantined. I know this because a high school classmate of mine, has a son in law who returned from a trip to China in late February and infected his family.

Over 40,000 people entered the US after the border was supposedly closed. Italy and Spain were two of the hardest hit countries in the beginning and there were flight coming to America from these countries.
 
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