Coaching Staff

[Andrew]

All I care about is making the NCAA tournament as often as possible and the results of the games we play there.

 

[Knight2]

What do we know about Whitesell? Resume?

Have you heard of Google?

Ok. So you don't know. What's his rep?

 

[rawdognyc]

All I care about is making the NCAA tournament as often as possible and the results of the games we play there.

I'm old school. I'd rather make the NIT every year and so far Lav is doing a great job in that department. Would love to see us and CCNY in the Championship game.

 

[beast of the east]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

 

[beast of the east]

there aren't posters who say Lavins a good coach, there just aren't. Everyone knows his abilities or lack thereof. However, when people say he's a good recruiter, they are correct but that doesn't mean they are Lavin defenders. If people are allowed to call out the flaws of Lav, why can't people point out the good? It's an interesting dynamic that posters are labeled Kool aid drinkers and Lavin defenders/supporters when they point out a single thing he actually does well.

when posters actually look at maybe some of the other flaws of the staff, that doesn't mean they defend Lavin. How does pointing out some of the issues with the rest of the staff equate to someone defending Lavin? Maybe taking attention away from his flaws yes, but haven't his shortcomings been drilled into our heads over and over???

I actually liked this thread a lot because it took a step back from the Lavin bashing and looked at some other flaws in the management of our team. Lavin again, has his flaws and issues as a coach, but we are allowed to discuss the rest of the staff and their flaws as well. And that doesn't make anyone a Lavin defender.

You're not wrong, Jack.

I would say that most people evaluate Lavin as someplace between a B+ and an A as a recruiter, and someplace between a C and a D- as a game coach. There are always a few people who are going to get hysterical when somebody leaves early and put up a post that he's a failure as a recruiter. But overall those posts don't count any more than the ones that overreact and say he's a great coach, just misunderstood, when the team plays a good game.

Possibly the more interesting question - and more consequential to the results on the floor - is what he is as the head of a program. That would include choosing his assistants, creating an identity for the program, recruiting players to fit that identity, developing an offensive and defensive philosophy, and teaching and implementing those philosophies. I think there is a much broader difference of opinion on what grade people would give Coach in that department.

Good post. In a lot of ways, Lavin is as much a GM as he is a head coach. The mere fact that he asked to hire a highly qualified staff of assistants points to the fact that he was augmenting some of his shortcomings, and not having an ego about it.

In terms of what Lavin has recruited, I do think its fair to say that SJU and Lavin doesn't get the picking of say a Duke or Kentucky. The hole Lavin was dealt was year two in terms of roster I believe was a big factor in not being as selective as he may have been in terms of recruits had he started with a balanced roster of underclassmen and upperclassmen. He hasn't seen his first class reach seniors yet, so I'm in the camp of him having a little more time to show what type of team he can build.

 

[beast of the east]

All I care about is making the NCAA tournament as often as possible and the results of the games we play there.

I'm old school. I'd rather make the NIT every year and so far Lav is doing a great job in that department. Would love to see us and CCNY in the Championship game.

Do you still go to the site of the old Garden with your G.O. card for discount seats?

 

[redfazed]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

Wait a second--you just called Lavin a great recruiter and these are Lavin's star recruits! You can't have it both ways.

 

[beast of the east]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

Wait a second--you just called Lavin a great recruiter and these are Lavin's star recruits! You can't have it both ways.

I said he is in the upper 20%. For SJU that has yielded Harkless (1st round NBA pick), Harrison (BE player of the year), Jordan (#17 - tons of potential shown), Obekpa (shot block leader), Sampson (premature NBA exit). He also reeled in Branch, who killed us when we played his team. Put Harkless on last years squad and we are in the tourney. He's recruited three classes, and that's a lot of talent for SJU - much more than anyone has recruited here in an extremely long time. If you read what I wrote, let's say this year's squad had the benefit of a senior player like Brownlee, DJ, or HArdy - PLUS Harkless. Meaning, the roster he inherited was balanced, and Harkless didn't declare early. Do you seriously have any doubts that if we had just one of those seniors plus Harkless we'd be a sweet 16 team. Imagine if we had any two of those three seniors - Could we have been final four last year? Maybe..

 

[paultzman]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

Wait a second--you just called Lavin a great recruiter and these are Lavin's star recruits! You can't have it both ways.

I said he is in the upper 20%. For SJU that has yielded Harkless (1st round NBA pick), Harrison (BE player of the year), Jordan (#17 - tons of potential shown), Obekpa (shot block leader), Sampson (premature NBA exit). He also reeled in Branch, who killed us when we played his team. Put Harkless on last years squad and we are in the tourney. He's recruited three classes, and that's a lot of talent for SJU - much more than anyone has recruited here in an extremely long time. If you read what I wrote, let's say this year's squad had the benefit of a senior player like Brownlee, DJ, or HArdy - PLUS Harkless. Meaning, the roster he inherited was balanced, and Harkless didn't declare early. Do you seriously have any doubts that if we had just one of those seniors plus Harkless we'd be a sweet 16 team. Imagine if we had any two of those three seniors - Could we have been final four last year? Maybe..

Branch had 7 points & 2 assists that game, not exactly "killing" us.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20111118_TXAM@STJNNY

 

[beast of the east]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

Wait a second--you just called Lavin a great recruiter and these are Lavin's star recruits! You can't have it both ways.

I said he is in the upper 20%. For SJU that has yielded Harkless (1st round NBA pick), Harrison (BE player of the year), Jordan (#17 - tons of potential shown), Obekpa (shot block leader), Sampson (premature NBA exit). He also reeled in Branch, who killed us when we played his team. Put Harkless on last years squad and we are in the tourney. He's recruited three classes, and that's a lot of talent for SJU - much more than anyone has recruited here in an extremely long time. If you read what I wrote, let's say this year's squad had the benefit of a senior player like Brownlee, DJ, or HArdy - PLUS Harkless. Meaning, the roster he inherited was balanced, and Harkless didn't declare early. Do you seriously have any doubts that if we had just one of those seniors plus Harkless we'd be a sweet 16 team. Imagine if we had any two of those three seniors - Could we have been final four last year? Maybe..

Branch had 7 points & 2 assists that game, not exactly "killing" us.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20111118_TXAM@STJNNY

Hey, Thanks for checking. I was eating dinner in a restaurant with one eye on the TV screen in the bar. Didn't he play really well against us, or am I mistaken? Maybe big plays down the stretch?

 

[paultzman]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

Wait a second--you just called Lavin a great recruiter and these are Lavin's star recruits! You can't have it both ways.

I said he is in the upper 20%. For SJU that has yielded Harkless (1st round NBA pick), Harrison (BE player of the year), Jordan (#17 - tons of potential shown), Obekpa (shot block leader), Sampson (premature NBA exit). He also reeled in Branch, who killed us when we played his team. Put Harkless on last years squad and we are in the tourney. He's recruited three classes, and that's a lot of talent for SJU - much more than anyone has recruited here in an extremely long time. If you read what I wrote, let's say this year's squad had the benefit of a senior player like Brownlee, DJ, or HArdy - PLUS Harkless. Meaning, the roster he inherited was balanced, and Harkless didn't declare early. Do you seriously have any doubts that if we had just one of those seniors plus Harkless we'd be a sweet 16 team. Imagine if we had any two of those three seniors - Could we have been final four last year? Maybe..

Branch had 7 points & 2 assists that game, not exactly "killing" us.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20111118_TXAM@STJNNY

Hey, Thanks for checking. I was eating dinner in a restaurant with one eye on the TV screen in the bar. Didn't he play really well against us, or am I mistaken? Maybe big plays down the stretch?

It was a crappy game. They made 2/3 FTs & we missed 16 in a 57-56 "thriller"

 

[simplyred]

All I care about is making the NCAA tournament as often as possible and the results of the games we play there.

I'm old school. I'd rather make the NIT every year and so far Lav is doing a great job in that department. Would love to see us and CCNY in the Championship game.

Maybe one day, the NIT will once again reign supreme over the NCAA tournament and we can count all of our national championships.

 

[austour]

What do we know about Whitesell? Resume?

Have you heard of Google?

Have you read his posts?

 

[monte]

All I care about is making the NCAA tournament as often as possible and the results of the games we play there.

As the commercial says "its not complicated". Just make the NCAA tourney most years and have a nice run every so often. Maybe even make it back to the final four. Anything else is just horse crap IMO. I didn't see that happening under Norm + Co and I don't see it happening under Lavin + Co. But I will gladly and gleefully eat crow if I am proven wrong.

 

[Section3]

there aren't posters who say Lavins a good coach, there just aren't. Everyone knows his abilities or lack thereof. However, when people say he's a good recruiter, they are correct but that doesn't mean they are Lavin defenders. If people are allowed to call out the flaws of Lav, why can't people point out the good? It's an interesting dynamic that posters are labeled Kool aid drinkers and Lavin defenders/supporters when they point out a single thing he actually does well.

when posters actually look at maybe some of the other flaws of the staff, that doesn't mean they defend Lavin. How does pointing out some of the issues with the rest of the staff equate to someone defending Lavin? Maybe taking attention away from his flaws yes, but haven't his shortcomings been drilled into our heads over and over???

I actually liked this thread a lot because it took a step back from the Lavin bashing and looked at some other flaws in the management of our team. Lavin again, has his flaws and issues as a coach, but we are allowed to discuss the rest of the staff and their flaws as well. And that doesn't make anyone a Lavin defender.

I think KOB said it best (forgive me as I can't recall whether he posts here or JJ)...and I am paraphrasing...he suggested that coach is fine but needs to get past ego a bit...I interpret that to mean that coach not only needs to have an "X and O" guy but needs to delegate responsibility to him...if you follow the Rangers, just watch the dynamics during a time out...Vignault stands in the background while the specialists dictate the strategy...nothing wrong with that...its how most businesses are run

 

[Section3]

What do we know about Whitesell? Resume?

Was recruited via Linked In

 

[bamafan]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s

Wait a second--you just called Lavin a great recruiter and these are Lavin's star recruits! You can't have it both ways.

I said he is in the upper 20%. For SJU that has yielded Harkless (1st round NBA pick), Harrison (BE player of the year), Jordan (#17 - tons of potential shown), Obekpa (shot block leader), Sampson (premature NBA exit). He also reeled in Branch, who killed us when we played his team. Put Harkless on last years squad and we are in the tourney. He's recruited three classes, and that's a lot of talent for SJU - much more than anyone has recruited here in an extremely long time. If you read what I wrote, let's say this year's squad had the benefit of a senior player like Brownlee, DJ, or HArdy - PLUS Harkless. Meaning, the roster he inherited was balanced, and Harkless didn't declare early. Do you seriously have any doubts that if we had just one of those seniors plus Harkless we'd be a sweet 16 team. Imagine if we had any two of those three seniors - Could we have been final four last year? Maybe..

Branch had 7 points & 2 assists that game, not exactly "killing" us.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20111118_TXAM@STJNNY

Hey, Thanks for checking. I was eating dinner in a restaurant with one eye on the TV screen in the bar. Didn't he play really well against us, or am I mistaken? Maybe big plays down the stretch?

Are you sure you were eating dinner at a restaurant and not drinking at the bar with one droopy eye on the TV?

 

[JohnnyFan]

there aren't posters who say Lavins a good coach, there just aren't. Everyone knows his abilities or lack thereof. However, when people say he's a good recruiter, they are correct but that doesn't mean they are Lavin defenders. If people are allowed to call out the flaws of Lav, why can't people point out the good? It's an interesting dynamic that posters are labeled Kool aid drinkers and Lavin defenders/supporters when they point out a single thing he actually does well.

when posters actually look at maybe some of the other flaws of the staff, that doesn't mean they defend Lavin. How does pointing out some of the issues with the rest of the staff equate to someone defending Lavin? Maybe taking attention away from his flaws yes, but haven't his shortcomings been drilled into our heads over and over???

I actually liked this thread a lot because it took a step back from the Lavin bashing and looked at some other flaws in the management of our team. Lavin again, has his flaws and issues as a coach, but we are allowed to discuss the rest of the staff and their flaws as well. And that doesn't make anyone a Lavin defender.

When you say there are no posters who say he is a good coach, it highlights the exact dynamic that intrigues me. That is......if nobody thinks he is a good basketball coach, then there are apparently people who passionately support a coach who they concede is not a good coach. I guess they believe he will recruit talent that is able to succeed in spite of the agreed upon deficiencies. I think our program deserves better.

As for discussing other deficiencies without mentioning Lavin, I am not sure how. He is a hansomely paid head coach and responsible for all aspects of SJU Men's Basketball.

 

[westchesterjoe]

I believe, after 4 full seasons, Lavin is a mediocre COLLEGE BB Coach. His record says what he is, here at St John's. The things the fan base here have overwhelmingly voiced is he doesn't make Players better than when they arrived. And, forget Harkless. He was a exceptional talent, already for the NBA under one and done.

I'm also not a worshiper of his motivational skills. I think he's overrated. Hasn't really been able to get his team to win Clutch games consistently.

 

[logen]

Can we give Jim Whitesell a chance before we count him out. He came in late in the off season last year. We definitely saw improvement as the season progressed. The collapse at the end of the year was due more to player issues than coaching. And I can't believe the disrespect that this fanbase shows toward Hall of Famer Gene Keady. Smh!

SR, Keady doesn't do anything. He's not allowed to do anything. If he were here to contribute anything substantive he would be an assistant coach.
There have been numerous opportunities to get Keady on as a coach and let him work with the players and the rest of the staff, but we've never done that.
Keady is essentially retired, and has a part-time job with SJU. He might as well be an analyst with Minko, because they're paying him to just sit there and do an appearance every once in awhile.

That's meant as no disrespect to GK, it's just that he has the equivalent of a no-show union job right now.

Not sure how you rate a coach in the top 20% recruiting and then say he recruited zero players who performed down the stretch. Frankly, I think his hands were tied coming in and recruited initially "by the numbers" and got a highly rated group of underachievers that didn't take to beimg coached up very well. I am more concerned with what is happening now recruiting wise and the apparent lack of a definitive plan. Lavin came into a very unique and extremely difficult situation but it appears to me five years in he has not done a good job of stabilizing the program.

Respectfully, have you ever spent even 5 minutes with the guy? I have a feeling if you did, you wouldn't say anything resembling the reckless statement you just made. The guy is a serious, no nonsense guy, who is enjoying being a voice to Lavin, the rest of the coaching staff, and the players outside of game situations. He writes down little things he sees on the court during games, to go over with Lavin and staff after games. It could be a blown assignment, some bad fundamental, matchups that are working or not working. Damnit, he's a six time national coach of the year who still has all of his marbles, and as we saw this year on occasion, still some fire in his belly. To somehow disparage him, especially since he is taking up no room on the bench for anyone else to replace him, is just plain silly.

I spoke to him briefly at the event at Stout 2 seasons ago, but I can't base an opinion of the guy off of a handshake. But my point is that mine or your opinion of him is irrelevant actually, I think he's a great coach, but he's in a inconsequential position. I'm not disparaging him, just the role he has been given. He can't talk to the players. How can I expect him to have an impact on the team if he can't speak to the players?
But I think this is taking the conversation off track a bit, Simmons is right; Keady obviously isn't the problem. I do think, to some degree, Keady's job with SJU is part of a pattern of Lavin using props and gimmicks to prop the program up while substance suffers. But again, Gene Keady is far from being a problem.
If Keady was here to really help the team, he should be a coach and not Rico Hines or Martin who both had zero coaching experience when they were made assistant coaches. They held front-office jobs and were trainers, but were never coaches involved in game-planning and running practices. If Keady is going to be here, let's use him! Otherwise, I stick to my comment that he's a trophy for Lavin to impress people with.

Hey no disrespect to you, but suggesting that Keady is a prop is a little overboard based on a foregone conclusion that Lavin is a lowlife swindler who will do anything to distract. I spoke to KEady about his hire, and he explained that his wife had died, and he wasn't doing much of anything when Lavin called and asked him to help out. I think the words he used was "as long as Steve wants me here and I think I am being useful then I will stay here." If you look at the evidence of guys who have played here for Lavin - Polee who says he still speaks to Lavin and respects and likes him - Harrison who says he appreciates that Lavin gave him a second chance to redeem himself - the fact that Obekpa was allowed to return after dissing the coach and team - speaks volumes about LAvin as a guy who cares about the kids he's coached and the people he has worked for and with. Keady gave Lavin his first chance and is a well respected guy, so much respected that Lavin isn't merely providing misplaced loyalty. To suggest Lavin is using Keady to deflect criticism, or as a "prop" is without basis in criticizing Lavin, and says even less about Keady insofar as accepting a paycheck for nothing. The reality is Lavin left money on the table in his SJU negotiation so that he could fill a staff with talented assistants with above grade pay. I you want to disparage Lavin as a subpar game situation coach, I may agree subjectively, but the rest of the crap heaped on him is pure garbage.

I understand your point, he does seem to have a knack for maintaining rapport with players even through tough times. However, it amazes me that so many fans are perfectly happy to accept that he is a poor basketball coach. You have to admit, Steve Lavin has a powerful charisma (some of us call it kool aid) that seduces fans into unconditional support. I mean some folks are actually discussing assistant coach changes in order to acquire the necessary basketball acumen. Throughout the worst of times, a significant portion of the fan base will tranfer responsibility to assistant coaches, players, and even fans while swiftly defending the head coach. I really do find it to be an interesting dynamic.

I don't know who is "perfectly happy" to accept a poor X's and O's guy. The world isn't perfect, and Lavin isn't perfect either. I think it's fair to say that he is in the upper 20% in terms of being a great recruiter among the top 100 coaches. Maybe he's in the bottom 30% of being an X's and O's guy. I certainly ripped his game decision to insert Hooper in the first Providence game, which seemed absurd with Jordan on the bench - there was a short circuit and presumption of a give a foul. KEady is off the table when discussing assistant coaches, since he is a bonus coach. What I detest is the personal stuff thrown at Lavin, which his detractors on here have loved to do. I have no ties to him whatsoever, but the personal attacks have gotten quiet somewhat since Obekpa asked out, then came back with his tail between his legs, and there have been revelations about how guys who left have been treated by Lavin (Polee). In terms of the overall, I am not convinced one iota that a great coach would have turned this bunch into a very good basketball team. I think every guy on last years squad is a flawed basketball player, and not a single one of them has consistent crunch time big play ability. Most games were lost on wide open misses, bonehead plays, and poor shot selection. The team didn't have a finisher's mentality, where guys relish a close game at the end. They looked like a crew that ate big chunks of apples during time outs. The coach can be somewhat at fault, but do you think if we had a single big time player (take your pick), that this squad would have folded so many times? That, to me, has very little to do with drinking Kool-Aid, and more in line with "You coach, and I'll get the players, and I'll beat you every time" philosophy emoted by Frank McGuire in the 50s