Cluess
- Thread starter dalydoseofhoops
- Start date
1. What are we all missing here?
2. Why isn't the local guy, with a .700 win %, who is 95% of everyone's first choice, signed and sealed by now?
3. I can't believe it's the money!
4. I can't believe it's some old hard feelings between Louie and him
5. See # 1
2. Why isn't the local guy, with a .700 win %, who is 95% of everyone's first choice, signed and sealed by now?
3. I can't believe it's the money!
4. I can't believe it's some old hard feelings between Louie and him
5. See # 1
[quote="Monte" post=343108]1. What are we all missing here?
2. Why isn't the local guy, with a .700 win %, who is 95% of everyone's first choice, signed and sealed by now?
3. I can't believe it's the money!
4. I can't believe it's some old hard feelings between Louie and him
5. See # 1[/quote]
Bad leaders think they’re smarter than everyone else.
2. Why isn't the local guy, with a .700 win %, who is 95% of everyone's first choice, signed and sealed by now?
3. I can't believe it's the money!
4. I can't believe it's some old hard feelings between Louie and him
5. See # 1[/quote]
Bad leaders think they’re smarter than everyone else.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Monte" post=343108]1. What are we all missing here?
2. Why isn't the local guy, with a .700 win %, who is 95% of everyone's first choice, signed and sealed by now?
3. I can't believe it's the money!
4. I can't believe it's some old hard feelings between Louie and him
5. See # 1[/quote]
So now I will tell you a Tim Cluess story:
I started to detest Tim without meeting him based on what I had read in the papers about him back in 2003. I met Tim in 2005 or so.
Tim started coaching St. Mary's back in 1991 or 92. Back in 2003, his St. Mary's team blew the doors off of St. Anthony's by 68 points. The school principal of St. Anthony's called St. Mary's principal Kevin McBride to complain bitterly about how Cluess ran up the score on his kids. Principal McBride sharply rebuked Tim, and in the fallout, Cluess quit, despite having a nationally ranked team. His resignation lasted about 5 days when he was reinstated. He never got over the lack of support and it was one reason he moved on to college in 2005.
So this was obviously a very sore subject for Cluess, maybe even one that is dogging some SJU decision makers, who could have had kids in HS at the time. So as I got to know Tim, I asked him about it - yea I go to places some times that should be left alone.
His response was surprising, and let me know what kind of honesty and integrity he has. First of all, he didn't hedge even a little bit. Paraphrased bu content is correct: "First of all, we didn't run up the score. We didn't press or trap. I have 12 kids, some of who never see the light of day, and I cleared the bench early. These kids who never play are trying to impress me, earn playing time, and get to play ball either next season or at the next level. It's not my fault that even they were so much better than St. Anthony's kids that we continued to score while they couldn't. This isn't CYO - this is a varsity sport, and I wouldn't be much of a coach if I told my bench players not to play hard, or to disrespect the opponent by not trying their best. But that wasn't even what bothered me about what happened. Rather than confront me in person to talk about it, or ask me my side of it, I get a letter in my mailbox sharply criticizing me personally for letting the score get out of hand, for poor sportsmanship, and it being a poor reflection of the school. He could have raised any of those things in a face to face, and I would have explained what happened. I felt so disrespected by getting a letter with his decision already made about what I had done that I quit" I think he got his sitdown in that time period, and MCBride, rather than kill the golden goose of a program Cluess built, worked things out with Tim.
Now, I had only known Tim a short while, maybe a year, and here he was honestly and fairly articulating his reasonable side of things. The Long Island CHSAA for it's part moved both St. Dominics and St. Mary's out of their league and I believe they competed against a lot of city teams after that. I forget the details.
I could tell you a few other stories about Tim, but won't. He is a terrific person who has gone through life experiencing the loss of two brothers to cancer. He still wears Kevin's NIT championship watch to every game, and I believe a piece of jewelry to remember both Greg and Kevin. He named one son for Kevin, and his other son who I won't name had a health issue very young that caused Tim to vow never to be far from doctors in NY. That was years ago, and to my knowledge his sons are both doing great, but Tim is a guy who sticks to his word, even if it limited his career.
The .700 winning percentage speaks for itself. So do the 6 NCAA bids in 9 seasons. I can speak for his character though, and tell you how attuned to kids he is, even 12 year olds on a baseball field. It's a special gift, and he is a special coach. These guys running the show at St. John's are desperately looking for the next Coke or Pepsi, when they have Seven Up right in front of them for a reasonable price.
Let's get this damned thing done. I hope to hell I haven't said anything Tim didn't want said. But I do know he deserves this job, and if this helps even a little tiny bit, it would be worth it.
2. Why isn't the local guy, with a .700 win %, who is 95% of everyone's first choice, signed and sealed by now?
3. I can't believe it's the money!
4. I can't believe it's some old hard feelings between Louie and him
5. See # 1[/quote]
So now I will tell you a Tim Cluess story:
I started to detest Tim without meeting him based on what I had read in the papers about him back in 2003. I met Tim in 2005 or so.
Tim started coaching St. Mary's back in 1991 or 92. Back in 2003, his St. Mary's team blew the doors off of St. Anthony's by 68 points. The school principal of St. Anthony's called St. Mary's principal Kevin McBride to complain bitterly about how Cluess ran up the score on his kids. Principal McBride sharply rebuked Tim, and in the fallout, Cluess quit, despite having a nationally ranked team. His resignation lasted about 5 days when he was reinstated. He never got over the lack of support and it was one reason he moved on to college in 2005.
So this was obviously a very sore subject for Cluess, maybe even one that is dogging some SJU decision makers, who could have had kids in HS at the time. So as I got to know Tim, I asked him about it - yea I go to places some times that should be left alone.
His response was surprising, and let me know what kind of honesty and integrity he has. First of all, he didn't hedge even a little bit. Paraphrased bu content is correct: "First of all, we didn't run up the score. We didn't press or trap. I have 12 kids, some of who never see the light of day, and I cleared the bench early. These kids who never play are trying to impress me, earn playing time, and get to play ball either next season or at the next level. It's not my fault that even they were so much better than St. Anthony's kids that we continued to score while they couldn't. This isn't CYO - this is a varsity sport, and I wouldn't be much of a coach if I told my bench players not to play hard, or to disrespect the opponent by not trying their best. But that wasn't even what bothered me about what happened. Rather than confront me in person to talk about it, or ask me my side of it, I get a letter in my mailbox sharply criticizing me personally for letting the score get out of hand, for poor sportsmanship, and it being a poor reflection of the school. He could have raised any of those things in a face to face, and I would have explained what happened. I felt so disrespected by getting a letter with his decision already made about what I had done that I quit" I think he got his sitdown in that time period, and MCBride, rather than kill the golden goose of a program Cluess built, worked things out with Tim.
Now, I had only known Tim a short while, maybe a year, and here he was honestly and fairly articulating his reasonable side of things. The Long Island CHSAA for it's part moved both St. Dominics and St. Mary's out of their league and I believe they competed against a lot of city teams after that. I forget the details.
I could tell you a few other stories about Tim, but won't. He is a terrific person who has gone through life experiencing the loss of two brothers to cancer. He still wears Kevin's NIT championship watch to every game, and I believe a piece of jewelry to remember both Greg and Kevin. He named one son for Kevin, and his other son who I won't name had a health issue very young that caused Tim to vow never to be far from doctors in NY. That was years ago, and to my knowledge his sons are both doing great, but Tim is a guy who sticks to his word, even if it limited his career.
The .700 winning percentage speaks for itself. So do the 6 NCAA bids in 9 seasons. I can speak for his character though, and tell you how attuned to kids he is, even 12 year olds on a baseball field. It's a special gift, and he is a special coach. These guys running the show at St. John's are desperately looking for the next Coke or Pepsi, when they have Seven Up right in front of them for a reasonable price.
Let's get this damned thing done. I hope to hell I haven't said anything Tim didn't want said. But I do know he deserves this job, and if this helps even a little tiny bit, it would be worth it.
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At this point, Cluess seems our best option for a few reasons.
He's won at every level, is a high-integrity guy, and St. John's would be his dream job.
Any other 'reasonable' choice, be it Mike Rhoades, Ryan Odom, or Jon Scheyer would use us as a launch pad for bigger and better jobs.
While that's not necessarily a 'bad thing', it bears the potential of once again leaving the program in a wobbly state.
The 'home run' choices of Pitino, Billy D, even a Mike Brey, carry high risk of varying degrees and types, but cluster around the most likely downer: they'd decline us or wouldn't past the Admin's 'standards'.
Any of the 'searches' above would likely take critical time--that we cannot afford--to play out to a bad outcome.
This is Tim Cluess's dream job.
Give it to him.
He's won at every level, is a high-integrity guy, and St. John's would be his dream job.
Any other 'reasonable' choice, be it Mike Rhoades, Ryan Odom, or Jon Scheyer would use us as a launch pad for bigger and better jobs.
While that's not necessarily a 'bad thing', it bears the potential of once again leaving the program in a wobbly state.
The 'home run' choices of Pitino, Billy D, even a Mike Brey, carry high risk of varying degrees and types, but cluster around the most likely downer: they'd decline us or wouldn't past the Admin's 'standards'.
Any of the 'searches' above would likely take critical time--that we cannot afford--to play out to a bad outcome.
This is Tim Cluess's dream job.
Give it to him.
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Chicago Days" post=343140]
Any other 'reasonable' choice, be it Mike Rhoades, Ryan Odom, or Jon Scheyer would use us as a launch pad for bigger and better jobs.
While that's not necessarily a 'bad thing', it bears the potential of once again leaving the program in a wobbly state.[/quote]
But if they are able to use us as a launchpad, that probably means that they aren't leaving us wobbly.
Any other 'reasonable' choice, be it Mike Rhoades, Ryan Odom, or Jon Scheyer would use us as a launch pad for bigger and better jobs.
While that's not necessarily a 'bad thing', it bears the potential of once again leaving the program in a wobbly state.[/quote]
But if they are able to use us as a launchpad, that probably means that they aren't leaving us wobbly.
[quote="L J S A" post=343142][quote="Chicago Days" post=343140]
Any other 'reasonable' choice, be it Mike Rhoades, Ryan Odom, or Jon Scheyer would use us as a launch pad for bigger and better jobs.
While that's not necessarily a 'bad thing', it bears the potential of once again leaving the program in a wobbly state.[/quote]
But if they are able to use us as a launchpad, that probably means that they aren't leaving us wobbly.[/quote]
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen
Any other 'reasonable' choice, be it Mike Rhoades, Ryan Odom, or Jon Scheyer would use us as a launch pad for bigger and better jobs.
While that's not necessarily a 'bad thing', it bears the potential of once again leaving the program in a wobbly state.[/quote]
But if they are able to use us as a launchpad, that probably means that they aren't leaving us wobbly.[/quote]
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Chicago Days" post=343144]
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen[/quote]
Is any of that worse than the clusterF that's going on right now?
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen[/quote]
Is any of that worse than the clusterF that's going on right now?
[quote="L J S A" post=343148][quote="Chicago Days" post=343144]
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen[/quote]
Is any of that worse than the clusterF that's going on right now?[/quote]
Lol.
Actually, yes if the 'search' lingered into May and the roster further depletes and the 'recruiting & transfer' markets all but dry up.
I'd have to think it could get even worse and more a 'comedy f errors' than it is presently.
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen[/quote]
Is any of that worse than the clusterF that's going on right now?[/quote]
Lol.
Actually, yes if the 'search' lingered into May and the roster further depletes and the 'recruiting & transfer' markets all but dry up.
I'd have to think it could get even worse and more a 'comedy f errors' than it is presently.
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Paultzman Wrote: Cluess ship seems to have sailed imo.
Of course I am sure you are right and well informed on this.
That said the larger question is why no interview or real due diligence with Cluess, especially considering the lack of other options that currently exist.
Perhaps I am wrong but I believe If he interviewed with us and they did not take him, then people would have more respect for the process.
Of course I am sure you are right and well informed on this.
That said the larger question is why no interview or real due diligence with Cluess, especially considering the lack of other options that currently exist.
Perhaps I am wrong but I believe If he interviewed with us and they did not take him, then people would have more respect for the process.
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[quote="L J S A" post=343148][quote="Chicago Days" post=343144]
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen[/quote]
Is any of that worse than the clusterF that's going on right now?[/quote]
I'd support 'solid' options other than TC IF we could move quickly on them, with very fast yea/nays.
To me, timing at this point is almost as critical as getting the 'right' coach. Almost.
It'd be critical to get a good choice to agree to come here ASAP, which is one of the reasons why I favor TC.
Depends on a few things, like who the top AC would be and woud he stay as HC and also whether key players would 'enter' the infamous 'transfer portal' and disappear.
I doubt Cluess is on the 'board' at this point, given the 'expanded search', but at this point, imo, he'd be the best choice.
Otherwise, we face more roster losses and an inability to recruit 'any' BE-level player(s) for next season.
A total restart would be up on the ugly screen[/quote]
Is any of that worse than the clusterF that's going on right now?[/quote]
I'd support 'solid' options other than TC IF we could move quickly on them, with very fast yea/nays.
To me, timing at this point is almost as critical as getting the 'right' coach. Almost.
It'd be critical to get a good choice to agree to come here ASAP, which is one of the reasons why I favor TC.
[quote="ghostzapper" post=343154]Paultzman Wrote: Cluess ship seems to have sailed imo.
Of course I am sure you are right and well informed on this.
That said the larger question is why no interview or real due diligence with Cluess, especially considering the lack of other options that currently exist.
Perhaps I am wrong but I believe If he interviewed with us and they did not take him then people would have more respect for the process.[/quote]
My post reflects my opinion on Tim C candidacy, nothing more. Initial reports after Moser declining, indicated SJ was opening up search, whatever that means. One also wonders how Tim felt after Moser all out pursuit this week. Hopefully he still wants the job as much as advertised.
Of course I am sure you are right and well informed on this.
That said the larger question is why no interview or real due diligence with Cluess, especially considering the lack of other options that currently exist.
Perhaps I am wrong but I believe If he interviewed with us and they did not take him then people would have more respect for the process.[/quote]
My post reflects my opinion on Tim C candidacy, nothing more. Initial reports after Moser declining, indicated SJ was opening up search, whatever that means. One also wonders how Tim felt after Moser all out pursuit this week. Hopefully he still wants the job as much as advertised.
[quote="Las Vegan" post=343162]About the only thing a season ticket holder can do now is communicate with the people involved and let them know how you feel and how you will react, if this circus isn't resolved in a timely manner, with a coach who actually wants to be at the school.[/quote]
I don’t think it’ll be a question of whether the coach wants to be at the school, but rather is it a coach that the fan base wants at the school. Hoping Repole’s interview today results in the hiring of someone that the vast majority of fans are happy with.
I don’t think it’ll be a question of whether the coach wants to be at the school, but rather is it a coach that the fan base wants at the school. Hoping Repole’s interview today results in the hiring of someone that the vast majority of fans are happy with.
billthetruth
Well-known member
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=343590]I say hire Cluess. Every day this goes on we look worse and worse.[/quote]
Can we look any worse. This feels like rock bottom and the Titanic all rolled into one
Can we look any worse. This feels like rock bottom and the Titanic all rolled into one