Bowling Green, Fri. Nov. 9, 6:30p, FS2 / 570 WMCA

Watched a little of the Marquette game this afternoon. As advertised, they will be very good. FWIW.....I didn't see a single possession where a player opted for "hero ball". Probably because they know Wojo will have a stroke and yank them off the floor.

Disclaimer.......can't stand Wojo, just an observation.
 
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Logan, that was one of your best posts to date.

In the old days we would routinely escape with wins against lesser competition. A W beats a L any day.

I did comment agreeing with monte that against Loyola, despite a 30 point win, we looked sloppy. We aren't close to being the team we can be, and the key will be using the smaller, deeper team to our advantage by deft passing where everyone gets lots of touches. 30 seconds to get a very good look, not to take the first open shot.

Logan, you identified that Mullin used a timeout that reversed fortunes in the second half. Good call! Of course it was in direct contrast to a poster who said Mullin looked confused.

Just to tweak that poster, cragg had the same confused look when the same poster suggested to him that fans be allowed to occupy the best open seats close to the court. Sorry but general admission and reserved seats are two different things.

The team needs some time to figure themselves out in game situations. That's why you don't open with the Big East season.

Heron is a huge get. Bigger and better than Lovett. Scouts may come to look at Ponds and come away with accolades for heron

Figueroa will light it up some stuff lights, but Simon will be the glue that does all the things you need to win. He needs the ball in his hands more, imo.

Dixon will get better as the season progresses. I don't think he's there yet.

Ponds will simply need to play refined basketball and come up big at the end of games. That's more important than 25 points and 7 rebounds.

Clark is easy to forget with all this firepower, but is just another weapon.

Agree w 72 that Keita is an important big on this team. Mullin and co. Loves him.

Let's stay positive. Remember, lavin's 1st team didn't come together until Hardy and Brownlee assumed big roles.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=301519]Logan, that was one of your best posts to date.

In the old days we would routinely escape with wins against lesser competition. A W beats a L any day.

I did comment agreeing with monte that against Loyola, despite a 30 point win, we looked sloppy. We aren't close to being the team we can be, and the key will be using the smaller, deeper team to our advantage by deft passing where everyone gets lots of touches. 30 seconds to get a very good look, not to take the first open shot.

Logan, you identified that Mullin used a timeout that reversed fortunes in the second half. Good call! Of course it was in direct contrast to a poster who said Mullin looked confused.

Just to tweak that poster, cragg had the same confused look when the same poster suggested to him that fans be allowed to occupy the best open seats close to the court. Sorry but general admission and reserved seats are two different things.

The team needs some time to figure themselves out in game situations. That's why you don't open with the Big East season.

Heron is a huge get. Bigger and better than Lovett. Scouts may come to look at Ponds and come away with accolades for heron

Figueroa will light it up some stuff lights, but Simon will be the glue that does all the things you need to win. He needs the ball in his hands more, imo.

Dixon will get better as the season progresses. I don't think he's there yet.

Ponds will simply need to play refined basketball and come up big at the end of games. That's more important than 25 points and 7 rebounds.

Clark is easy to forget with all this firepower, but is just another weapon.

Agree w 72 that Keita is an important big on this team. Mullin and co. Loves him.

Let's stay positive. Remember, lavin's 1st team didn't come together until Hardy and Brownlee assumed big roles.[/quote]

Beast you know my feelings about Lav, but I give him all the credit in the world for what he did with Norm’s kids. Mostly that he was astute enough to hand the PG job over to Hardy. Who did an admiral job running the team. Whether it’s Simon, Dixon or whoever, we need someone to run the team on the court. And just to be clear, I am not upset about the sloppiness that we’ve exhibited over the first 2 games, or the final scores. I am upset over the lack of leadership, the lack of effort at times, and the schoolyard ball that we have a tendency to play.
 
[quote="Monte" post=301491][quote="Logen" post=301485][quote="Monte" post=301479][quote="Logen" post=301466]So, my take FWIW. I went to the doubleheader at Annapolis last night so I watched our game this morning. I found it so intriguing I watched it twice and somewhat broke it down, reverting back to my coaching days. Also took a look at the stats in relation to what I saw. I apologize in advance because am sure I will be repeating observations already posted. Here goes -
The game broke down to 4 distinctive sections; first, the first 4-5 minutes where we passed well, shot well, defended pretty well and went up on the scoreboard.
Second, the next 17-18 minutes where BG took over, we played very poorly on both ends, they played well, culminating in their 11 point lead a couple of minutes into the 2nd half.
At that point Mullin called time out, a time out that turned the game around and fostered in the third game within the game if you will. Our defense improved exponentially, more pressure on the ball for sure, not perfect, just an obvious increased sustained commitment on that end. And we started to just be a little more patient on offense, playing a little more team oriented ball while still taking advantage of our one on one breakdown ability. So from about the 18 minute mark to about the 2 minute mark we outscored BG by 20 points.
Which brings us to section 4 where on the surface it all went to crap. But breaking it down, did it really?
Play by play -
At just under 2 minutes Simon pushes and feeds Figueroa and he gets fouled, good play but 2 missed free throws begins the hurt.
We get the ball back and Ponds gets a good look but probably went too fast and the good look doesn’t drop; not a horrible play but more time off the clock was probably the way to go.
Next possession, we run clock, Clark gets a good look at a 3, misses, and Figueroa commits a horrible over the back, really bad play #1.
Horrible play #2, Simon pushes to nowhere and turns the ball over and that lack of discipline keeps BG in the game. As our foul shooting deserted us, that play sets the whole nail biting scenario up.
Because, BG then gets a good look and scores, Ponds goes 1 for 2, BG makes a nice runner, Heron missed 2 foul shots.
BG makes a layup, Heron misses 2 more fouls but steals the outlet and ices the game.
So we made, in my opinion, 2 really bad plays down the stretch that were magnified big time by missing a bushel full of foul shots down the stretch. Not good, but you either make fouls at the end or wind up on the shrinks couch.
Finally, two other observations -
Opponents, very little respect for them on this board. A team is as good as they play that night and BG has some talent for sure and played well. We ground out the win after being down and losing Keita. IMO that does more in building a team than blowout wins anytime. I will also mention that we used our fouls very intelligently down the stretch, not letting BG lay the ball in but rather earning it at the line and their misses is exactly why you do that.
Finally, rebounding. Stats mean nothing in a vacuum so let’s take a look at them. Yes, on the surface, that outrebounded us 38-28 which gives all kind of fodder to the anti-Mullin crowd. But, over simplifying to a degree, you get killed on the boards by giving up offensive rebound and there we actually had 7 to their 6, so offensive rebounds were not a big factor for either team. Defensive rebounds where BG statistically beat us 32-21 are a product of number of shots taken and missed by your opponent. BG shot better than us, so less defensive rebounds available to us but more important, we turned them over 20 times to our 8, again, less shots by them, less opportunities for rebounds by us. I would contend the rebounding was generally a non-factor in the game.[/quote]

Appreciate the in-depth analysis Logen, and I mean that sincerely. But the bottom line is that we were up by 9 with under a minute to go, at home against against a theoretically far inferior opponent who we were 19 point favorites over. There is no way in hell that they should have been within 1 point with a few seconds left in the game and a chance to win it. No way! Which brings me back to our conversation on the Mike Dixon thread. A team with a good point guard doesn’t allow that to happen. We don’t have a floor general. We have a bunch of kids who each want to take matters in to their own hands when they feel the time is right. Someone needs to be in charge on the court.[/quote]

Understood, but with all due respect, I don’t care about point spreads nor absolutes like about what should or shouldn’t happen, what happens, happens. I analyze that, not what should have happened because IMO, to paraphrase Tom Hanks, there is no should have in sports. Mike Dixon or Walt Frazier for that matter wouldn’t have changed missed free throws or dumb fouls and turnovers. We just disagree.[/quote]

My point is that if we’re fighting for our lives at home against teams like BG, and it we’re playing 20 minutes of good ball against teams like Loyola, then there’s still an awful lot of work to be done for us to be even considered a tourney team. Maybe it’s just a case of early season jitters. I sure hope that’s the case and that our game improves as the level of competition improves.[/quote]

Never said there is not work to be done and I think I clearly stated I thought we played 23 or so good minutes, so to speak. I am just not ready to join the Chicken Little crowd; I may get there because I am far from convinced this staff is the answer. I just hope we build on the majority of the 2nd half where I thought we played pretty good ball. I thought Mullin called a good productive time out that focused the team and turned the game around. No offense meant, but many here have pre-conceived notions about how games should play out. Doesn’t work that way in sports. If it did, bookies would be broke.
 
Credit to staff and team for just getting the win, which is what you have to do in a game like that. Plenty not to like in that game - and plenty to like, too - but easier to evaluate all that having found a way to the winner's circle than after a letdown loss obviously. Did a great job staying composed and getting back to making quality plays when it got to GB +11 and letting our talent ultimately win out.

On that point, Simon has been a little understated these first two games, while nevertheless stuffing stat columns as he so often does. But when it got to GB +11 Simon got our next two buckets and assisted on the two after that, directly involved in every scoring play for SJU on the 9-0 run between 16:13 and 14:28.

This kid is just a winning player that understands how to make plays for his team when they need it. Am sure he will still have some big games as he did last year, but with Heron/Figgy naturally may be asked to score less. But with everything else he does on both ends of the floor, and his ability/instincts to step up at critical points in games, what a player for this team. Butler last year a premium example, turning point in the game Friday another. SJU really lucky to have Simon.
 
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I really don't know what our fans could possibly expect after playing just two games that count. We have 4 new significant rotation players (Keita, Dixon, Figueroa, Heron) which means there is both a lot of getting to know each other and accepting different roles.

A theme that would resonate with our older fans would be the Knicks first championship team - there was a lot of depth, and even players as talented as Cazzie Russell and Dave Stallworth accepted lesser roles. However it wasn't until DeBusschere arrived and a not as team oriented Bellamy departed that Reed could become center, and an unselfish ensemble followed.

One of our posters said something as ridiculous as "Mullin doesn't emphasize rebounding" as if a guy who played 16 HOF seasons in the NBA, and 4 HOF seasons in college would undervalue rebounding. It's all a matter of chemistry and buying into a system.

If the Knicks never traded for DeBusschere, we probably wouldn't be talking about Holzman as a HOF coach, and forget about the 2 champsionships way way back then.

It's all a matter of this team learning to play together, and mostly sharing the ball selflessly. Some night it could be Ponds lighting it up, other nights Heron or any number of guys. I'm going to guess that we can pencil both POnds and Heron in for 15+ each night, and then other guys will step it up and contribute also.

Lots of touches, great spacing and cuts, exceptional ball movement, tough man to man defense with all game pressure, high tempo offense, not taking the first open shot that the defense gives you but working for the shot they don't want you to take. Oh yea, and REBOUNDING. Rebounding is all about effort and poistioning, not about leaping. All much easier said than done, and as much is on the players as the coaches for them to play this kind of ball.

Not shocked that they haven't hit their stride, and to me the signs were all there in the Loyola game that they would struggle against better competition the way they played in that game (despite 30 point win). I'm pretty confident they will begin to put it together and play much better ball as the season progresses. As Looie would say, "Back to the lab"
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=301519]Logan, that was one of your best posts to date.

In the old days we would routinely escape with wins against lesser competition. A W beats a L any day.

I did comment agreeing with monte that against Loyola, despite a 30 point win, we looked sloppy. We aren't close to being the team we can be, and the key will be using the smaller, deeper team to our advantage by deft passing where everyone gets lots of touches. 30 seconds to get a very good look, not to take the first open shot.

Logan, you identified that Mullin used a timeout that reversed fortunes in the second half. Good call! Of course it was in direct contrast to a poster who said Mullin looked confused.

Just to tweak that poster, cragg had the same confused look when the same poster suggested to him that fans be allowed to occupy the best open seats close to the court. Sorry but general admission and reserved seats are two different things.

The team needs some time to figure themselves out in game situations. That's why you don't open with the Big East season.

Heron is a huge get. Bigger and better than Lovett. Scouts may come to look at Ponds and come away with accolades for heron

Figueroa will light it up some stuff lights, but Simon will be the glue that does all the things you need to win. He needs the ball in his hands more, imo.

Dixon will get better as the season progresses. I don't think he's there yet.

Ponds will simply need to play refined basketball and come up big at the end of games. That's more important than 25 points and 7 rebounds.

Clark is easy to forget with all this firepower, but is just another weapon.

Agree w 72 that Keita is an important big on this team. Mullin and co. Loves him.

Let's stay positive. Remember, lavin's 1st team didn't come together until Hardy and Brownlee assumed big roles.[/quote]

Big fan of you as a poster Beast, but I find it mind-boggling how anyone could want the ball in Simon's hands more. His skill level on the perimeter is woeful. He can't handle the basketball well--his dribble is too high and too loose and he doesn't have the ability to change direction or counter a defender. His mind is made up for bettter or worse the second he starts to go and he relies on his athletic ability to finish.

On top of the clear lack of skill, Simon also destroys any hope of spacing the floor for other guys and he jas proven time and time again he will not follow shots for rebounds from the perimeter.

He should be kept in constant motion for optimal spacing. Hard cuts, post ups, run some offense through him the post, isolate him for drives when he has a 4 or 5 on him, let him swing the ball from the top of the key from time to time, etc.

If Simon went 6-6 from three in a game and we were down 3 with 10 seconds left, would anyone want Simon taking the potential game-tying three? What if we were down 2, would anyone want Simon trying to create off the bounce? He's as mistake prone as they come on the last two minutes of games.

Give me Heron and Ponds all day.
 
Simon is a important part of this team for many reasons . He always fills up his stat box but, there are times when you can groan at one or 2 of his particular plays . I agree with Marrilac that Simon doesn’t possess a great handle when facing the Basket from the perimeter or the Wing . To me his best ability is back to the Basket in close where he can post up smaller players and then turn and shoot . And , he isn’t a 3 point shooter , despite what his percentage may be . He has check boxes on all the aspects of the game but, he doesn’t excel in any one area . That’s not to say he isn’t valuable . He made a big Mental mistake in the late stages of the BG game when he sped down Court , despite no need to do so and promptly threw the ball into the stands . It was a critical turnover at a point where we didn’t need to score any more . Simon has little difficulty getting to the Rim but, when he gets there he clangs way too many off the iron or rolls it off the side of the cylinder . It’s maddening because he usually has made a good play to get to the Rim .
 
I think Simon is a key to this team. Has always been clutch and level-headed. A real team leader.
 
Simon as key element of inside-out offense drawing fouls on bigs or kicking to Ponds, Heron, or Fig cutting or Marvin in the corner.
 
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[quote="Marillac" post=301713]
He should be kept in constant motion for optimal spacing. Hard cuts, post ups, run some offense through him the post, isolate him for drives when he has a 4 or 5 on him, let him swing the ball from the top of the key from time to time, etc.
[/quote]

While I disagree with most of what you said, this is the one thing that I agree with you in this post. It also looks like his FT shooting has improved in which case this will be even more effective getting him to draw fouls.

Simon has some definite limitations but what I like so much about him is that he spent the entire last season smartly de-emphasizing those limitations. He made smart, disciplined choices and had some of the best overall shooting numbers on the team despite having an ugly shot. For a guy who has such a terrible handle as you say, he barely turned the ball over. This season he has only taken one 3pt attempt despite spending the off season working on his shot. I could rattle off a list of players who would not have been so disciplined and chomping at the bit to start the season showing off the progress (they thought) they made with their shot.

He has looked a little forced so far but the numbers are still good and like others have said, I think all of this is part of getting all the new roles perfected and while we are still winning, I'm not going to harp on any of it as long as it continues to improve and the teams we are supposed beat are getting beaten.
 
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[quote="Marillac" post=301713][quote="Beast of the East" post=301519]Logan, that was one of your best posts to date.

In the old days we would routinely escape with wins against lesser competition. A W beats a L any day.

I did comment agreeing with monte that against Loyola, despite a 30 point win, we looked sloppy. We aren't close to being the team we can be, and the key will be using the smaller, deeper team to our advantage by deft passing where everyone gets lots of touches. 30 seconds to get a very good look, not to take the first open shot.

Logan, you identified that Mullin used a timeout that reversed fortunes in the second half. Good call! Of course it was in direct contrast to a poster who said Mullin looked confused.

Just to tweak that poster, cragg had the same confused look when the same poster suggested to him that fans be allowed to occupy the best open seats close to the court. Sorry but general admission and reserved seats are two different things.

The team needs some time to figure themselves out in game situations. That's why you don't open with the Big East season.

Heron is a huge get. Bigger and better than Lovett. Scouts may come to look at Ponds and come away with accolades for heron

Figueroa will light it up some stuff lights, but Simon will be the glue that does all the things you need to win. He needs the ball in his hands more, imo.

Dixon will get better as the season progresses. I don't think he's there yet.

Ponds will simply need to play refined basketball and come up big at the end of games. That's more important than 25 points and 7 rebounds.

Clark is easy to forget with all this firepower, but is just another weapon.

Agree w 72 that Keita is an important big on this team. Mullin and co. Loves him.

Let's stay positive. Remember, lavin's 1st team didn't come together until Hardy and Brownlee assumed big roles.[/quote]

Big fan of you as a poster Beast, but I find it mind-boggling how anyone could want the ball in Simon's hands more. His skill level on the perimeter is woeful. He can't handle the basketball well--his dribble is too high and too loose and he doesn't have the ability to change direction or counter a defender. His mind is made up for bettter or worse the second he starts to go and he relies on his athletic ability to finish.

On top of the clear lack of skill, Simon also destroys any hope of spacing the floor for other guys and he jas proven time and time again he will not follow shots for rebounds from the perimeter.

He should be kept in constant motion for optimal spacing. Hard cuts, post ups, run some offense through him the post, isolate him for drives when he has a 4 or 5 on him, let him swing the ball from the top of the key from time to time, etc.

If Simon went 6-6 from three in a game and we were down 3 with 10 seconds left, would anyone want Simon taking the potential game-tying three? What if we were down 2, would anyone want Simon trying to create off the bounce? He's as mistake prone as they come on the last two minutes of games.

Give me Heron and Ponds all day.[/quote]

We can disagree, right? Glad you are back posting , you are an asset.

I.like Simon and that's that. :)

I also like Ponds playing on a wing rather than up top. I hope a point emerges. Simon does have great court vision.
 
If Simon is played at power forward this year, he will likely be gone next year. That will be our loss, big time. He is best used as point forward or very occasional point guard imho. He has looked lost too often in first two games which was not the case last year. Again, just my opinion and my wife says I'm usually wrong!
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=301763]VCU is beating Bowling Green by 21pts about 9:00 left in the game[/quote]

If you haven't learned by now, that score vs a common opponent is the worst way to evaluate a potential future game with a team, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Not directed at you personally, Mean Gene. It's just something that's always bothered me for a long time.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=301763]VCU is beating Bowling Green by 21pts about 9:00 left in the game[/quote]

That's called handling their business, something we still gotta learn to do.
 
I hear you, and teams have really good nights and really bad nights during certain games during the season. Match ups are different also. If Keita plays the whole game and Ponds plays the whole game who knows. But I just thought I would throw it out there what an easy time VCU is having with them.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=301772]5:55 left 1st half
29-27 Vermont over ku[/quote]

Vermont has high quality program for a small school. They have been very good for a few years now .
 
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